Why no Third person game today ever come close to Max Payne 1 and Mafia 1?
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The first F.E.A.R does it well for intense John Woo style fire fights, if Stranglehold is not to your liking.Ezekiel said:
I heavily agree with you story wise, but game play I strongly disagree. Being able to slide on food carts, stair rails, and swing from chandeliers are fun tools that give the player a chance to be creative. The cover system blends well too, and you have those destructible environments. Not mention the cover was destructible, and you couldn't just hide in one spot forever similar to Vanquish.
Keep in mind, this is a video game. Besides, Max Payne does a whole bunch over-the-top feat as well, but to not to the extent in Stranglehold. Especially in MP3. The bomb and drug stage part nobody likes, but it's only for that stage. After that levels are fine for the most part. Also, the multiplayer was shit, but that part never bothered me.
Your only other option is WET, and you would probably not like it. It's basically Stranglehold with a Grindhouse theme, really simple melee combat, mediocre platforming, and frustrating QTEs. Also, there are no boss battles, just long QTE cut-scenes. And Rubi is an unlikable git on par with 50 Cent: Blood on the Sand. I hate to say this, but I am glad a sequel never came out of that.Ezekiel said:
John Woo has always been over-the-top. Look at A Better Tomorrow II or Hard Target. Characters dodging bullets have been done in Face/Off. Specifically these scenes:Ezekiel said:
<spoiler=Face/Off Mirror Scene & Stand Off>
The only movies of his grounded in any sort of semi-realistic reality are Heroes Shed No Tears, and the first A Better Tomorrow. Other than that, Woo got increasingly over-the-top post ABT II. Besides, Neo dodges bullets just fine and I don't anyone else complaining. And nobody start with, cuz he's the One and in the Matrix. I guess it boils down to personal preference, but I do find it weird that this bothers you, yet whatever Max Payne 3 doesn't. MP3 doesn't bother me for the record, but honestly there not much difference in over-the-top maneuvers either protagonists can do other than, Tequila can wall jump in to bullet time. You forgetting that Stranglehold was always meant to be a crazy, fun, no fucks given action game.
Other than the story, most people did not have a problem with the game play. If there is any advantage Max Payne 1 & 2 have over Stranglehold, it's the Heroic Bloodshed themes. They carry them better than Stranglehold.
[unlike OP, just leaving a disclaimer here that this is entirely my opinion]
I'm not sure why anyone would compare Max Payne to Vanquish, but ok whatever. I'm not sure why some people call Vanquish a cover shooter either, the entire mechanics and even scoring system of the game is based upon moving and shooting, not taking cover.
Anyway I enjoyed Vanquish. It's probably one of my favorite games. I loved Mafia and Max payne 1 as well, heck I even modded Max Payne like hell to add more levels and challenges because I couldn't get enough of it. But they've aged, especially Mafia's controls. They feel extremely dated. Also, elements of the gameplay like speeding just made it tedious. One of the best mafia stories in a game though.
There's nothing wrong with Max Payne 3. It controls pretty good for a shooter, and the story is more of the same over-the-top metaphors and grizzled old killer syndrome. It's actually hilarious. The only thing that ruined that game is the fucking forced Social Club bullshit, that killed 2 of my playthroughs, quite close to the end. Only finished it once, would be more if it wasn't such a dreadful "feature"
I'm not sure why anyone would compare Max Payne to Vanquish, but ok whatever. I'm not sure why some people call Vanquish a cover shooter either, the entire mechanics and even scoring system of the game is based upon moving and shooting, not taking cover.
Anyway I enjoyed Vanquish. It's probably one of my favorite games. I loved Mafia and Max payne 1 as well, heck I even modded Max Payne like hell to add more levels and challenges because I couldn't get enough of it. But they've aged, especially Mafia's controls. They feel extremely dated. Also, elements of the gameplay like speeding just made it tedious. One of the best mafia stories in a game though.
There's nothing wrong with Max Payne 3. It controls pretty good for a shooter, and the story is more of the same over-the-top metaphors and grizzled old killer syndrome. It's actually hilarious. The only thing that ruined that game is the fucking forced Social Club bullshit, that killed 2 of my playthroughs, quite close to the end. Only finished it once, would be more if it wasn't such a dreadful "feature"
In defence of brick walls: even they budge at some point. B-Cell everything but.BabyfartsMcgeezaks said:
2005 gave us 3rd person RE 4 and Mercenaries: Playground of Destruction. I found both of those better than Mafia or any of the Max Paynes. Then again, I find a lot of 3rd person games better than Mafia or Max Paynes. I really thought that The Godfather, Blackhand edition... ON WII... was better than Mafia or the Pains.
Mercenaries is what made me realize how bad of an open world game GTA was. There were so many ways to complete missions. A lot of missions were basically a puzzle game trying to figure how to do XYZ mission without the faction knowing it was you. After playing Mercenaries, I found GTA (and most other open world games) just boring and repetitive. If you're not going to do open-ended gameplay, don't make your game open world.Kyrian007 said:
Many people call Vanquish a cover shooter either out of convenience or ignorance. That is my theory. I agree with you, as that is what I told curious people in Game Stops' or fans of shooters. It's a cover shooter that is not a cover shooter. You can use cover, but using it too much docks your points, and enemies will find multiple ways to shoot, grab, or blow you out of it. That is why I put it above most shooters. Never has a shooter given you so much mobility. Vanquish did leave a mark on the industry, even if did not sell well. After Vanquish, more shooters, mainly the FPS ironically enough, started to use sliding as some sort of mechanic. Bulletstorm and Crysis 2 are just some examples. Now F.E.A.R. 1 did have a slide kick attack, but no took anything from that all back when it came out in 2005 or afterward.JohnnyDelRay said:
It's sad to say this, but I was one of those people that mainly played GTA type sandbox games back then. But even back in those days, I didn't care much for the sandbox genre, and care even less for it now for the same reasons you have. At least I got to play Hulk: Ultimate Destruction. So I take it I missed out on Mercenaries?Phoenixmgs said:
You're spouting bullshit again. Lots of TPS games are far, far better than Mafia 1 and Max Payne 1. First and foremost Max Payne 2 and 3 and Mafia 2. Then there was The Punisher from 2005, The Godfather, Mercenaries 1 and 2, Resident Evil 4, Gears of War series, Mass Effect series, new Tomb Raider games, Uncharted, Vanquish, GUN, Binary Domain, Just Cause 2, Red Faction Guerilla, Saints Row 2, MGS 3, 4 and 5, Battlefront 2 in third person, Jedi Knight 2 and 3 etc. I could go on all day long.
It has been a very long time since i played Max Payne so i watched some gameplay just now and the combat is just walking into a room, slowing time and shooting everyone, if thats not enough then repeat while jumping. And Mafia is lucky to have a good story, because the combat is crap even for those days, that might be the reason why you mostly just drive in that game.
I'm in agreement on that. The first had a great story with it, #2 was just more of #1 with a story that was all over the place, and #3 was just a lot of fun gameplay and set pieces. Almost like a Call of Duty game in the Max Payne universe - and the story doesn't make any sense and I was just wanting the game to end by the time I finished it, but it was a fun play through and revisit of the bullet-time gameplay with better graphics.Major_Tom said: