"Why not just watch porn?"

[Boogie Knight]

I'm gonna take a great personal risk by being totally honest: Overwhelmingly, I prefer fanservicey and ecchi stuff over hentai because the former doesn't make me die a little inside as I watch it. The first time I saw a rape scene in a hentai, I damn near cried like a baby. And there is so much goddamn rape in hentai!! There is something seriously wrong with hentai and how ubiquitous rape is. It's repulsive how hard you have to look to find hentai where the characters have sex for fun, and I just gave up because it's too damn depressing to look and I don't like where I have to take myself mentally in order to wade through the sewer just to find the occasional gem.

As for pornography with flesh and blood women... it's not very satisfying because I don't know who these women are and what they do tends to come off as lazy. Personally, I find the swimsuit issue of Sports Illustrated far more stimulating because I see aesthetic sensibilities which is in sharp contrast to outright porn where a woman will stick her crotch in front of the camera and practically yell, "Look at my stuff, LOOK AT IT!"

This in part plays into why I prefer anime that tries to give us characters and has a little fanservice for shameless titillation. It's just more fun when you're getting to see something which a character would rather have guarded than just getting an anatomy lesson. Admittedly, I've found plenty of fanservicey anime to be very terrible with no redeeming qualities. Case in point, I hate anime like Freezing and Eiken with a passion. I especially hate Eiken as it is the most soulless and condescending thing I have seen passed off as a romantic comedy.

 

[wulf3n]

Censorship? I never said that. You're getting defensive and putting words in my mouth. I'm saying expect criticism.

I didn't say you did say Censorship. Merely that the issue isn't Criticism, the issue is "Just watch Porn" which is not criticism, but an attempt at censorship.

So the argument "It's my place to critique their decisions." is true, but not what I have issue with.

If you don't take your medium seriously, like I do, then you have no part in a serious discussion.

No, I'm saying not all works in a given medium have to be serious. Not that the medium itself is not serious.

You minimize the animation you like and you minimize entertainment industry as a whole. To be honest, I find your dismissal of the value of the entertainment industry to be a downright offensive.

So because I suggest a single piece of work is not intended to be taken seriously, that somehow means I'm dismissing the entire entertainment industry?

 

[Bocaj2000]

What experience? If you add something just because "it's pretty" and no other reason, then you don't know what you're doing as an artist. If you don't want me to dismiss you, then expand on "Because it's nice to look at."

Aestheticism dude. Popped up around the 19th century, Oscar Wilde and a lot of other artist's jumped on board the "Art for art's sake" train. It doesn't need to be expanded, art doesn't need to justify itself. "I wanted to make something pleasing" is justification enough.

From the Encyclopedia Britannica:

Aestheticism, late 19th-century European arts movement which centred on the doctrine that art exists for the sake of its beauty alone, and that it need serve no political, didactic, or other purpose.

Good to see you've done your research ^-^
The problem is that aestheticism still promotes mood and tone through the beauty that it creates. Empty beauty is still empty.

Also, do you honestly think that out of place ecchi is a statement based in aestheticism?

 

[Shia-Neko-Chan]

I especially hate Eiken as it is the most soulless and condescending thing I have seen passed off as a romantic comedy.

It's funny you mention that. Eiken is a parody.

 

[Bocaj2000]

Censorship? I never said that. You're getting defensive and putting words in my mouth. I'm saying expect criticism.

I didn't say you did say Censorship. Merely that the issue isn't Criticism, the issue is "Just watch Porn" which is not criticism, but an attempt at censorship.

So the argument "It's my place to critique their decisions." is true, but not what I have issue with.

If you don't take your medium seriously, like I do, then you have no part in a serious discussion.

No, I'm saying not all works in a given medium are serious. Not the medium itself is not serious.

You minimize the animation you like and you minimize entertainment industry as a whole. To be honest, I find your dismissal of the value of the entertainment industry to be a downright offensive.

So because I suggest a single piece of work is not intended to be taken seriously, that somehow means I'm dismissing the entire entertainment industry?

Good to see your points in this discussion. Now it's more than mud slinging back and forth haha.

Of course censorship isn't the answer. But if there was a purpose behind the sexuality, it wouldn't be an issue to begin with.

Also, all works deserve a serious and critical eye, no matter how schlocky it is. If there is a mood or tone that is trying to be delivered, serious or not, then it should get a critical eye on how to improve that tone. Out of place sexuality disrupts the atmosphere and creates a new one. This new atmosphere usually detracts from the piece as a whole.

 

[Bocaj2000]

If you don't take your medium seriously, like I do, then you have no part in a serious discussion. You minimize the animation you like and you minimize entertainment industry as a whole. To be honest, I find your dismissal of the value of the entertainment industry to be a downright offensive.

To imply that everyone who doesn't think like you when creating their vision is not taking their medium seriously is more insulting.

The entertainment industry has room for all kinds of works, not only the ones that you find acceptable.

I'm sorry for implying that, but that's not what I said. I said that if you want to be part of a serious discussion about animation, you have to take animation seriously. If you see it as inane entertainment, then you have no part in a serious discussion about the medium.

Also, I never said that my opinion is the correct one. I only said my opinion.

 

[wulf3n]

But if there was a purpose behind the sexuality, it wouldn't be an issue to begin with.

But there is a purpose, usually titillation, with HSotD I would argue comedy to some extent.

 

[Bocaj2000]

But if there was a purpose behind the sexuality, it wouldn't be an issue to begin with.

But there is a purpose, usually titillation, with HSotD I would argue comedy to some extent.

I mean in reference to the rest of the piece. For example, titillation during an action sequence is an awkward way to handle an action sequence and detracts from the action.

Also, is HSotD a comedy? An action thriller? Is the sexuality used effectively to compliment these themes? Or is it there on its own merits without reference to the rest of the piece's mood and tone?

EDIT: In my opinion, HSotD is a complete mess when it comes to tone. The creator said that it was supposed to be "straight up horror" but added ecchi so over the top that the anime is impossible to take seriously. Contrast that to Desert Punk, which uses ecchi in the anime as the punchline to several jokes.

 

[SinisterGehe]

I been to striptease show and I can tell you it is way classier than any anime. And I have watched anime and I can tell you 99% of it has no class or rank.

According to quantum superposition theory I have seen everything that can, is, will be, might, can't be, would be, might not be. Therefor I have seen all anime and I have drawn a conclusion from it.

Let's just say it like this. I spent 8 months doing part time as sensor for a TV channel that aired lot of foreign stuff. It meant watching a whole series, then marking down a tick list about them. And since I was "young hip kid" I got a quarter of standard nautical metric ton of Anime.

4-6 hours a day that to pay living so I could have money that was not my parents while studying.
Worst 8 months of my life.

Also. "To be entitled for a subjective opinion you do not need a objective study of the subject."
In my opinion everything that is pastel colored looks ugly and horrible, because I hate pastel color range. I also hate the year 1234 and the incoming 4321.

But yeah - what I have seen when I had to and when I was arsed to, 99% of anime has nor class. But please: do list that same fucking list of bebob, souldrinker, boobs and big swords and neon conclusion mechabollocks... etc to convert my opinion.

Which mainly is - I don't or respect 99% of anime. There are few movies I happen to like, because they are diamond encrusted finger smearing cool cream on your brain compared to rest of mass media that gets bombarded from all 1½ and 2/3rd corners of the world.

 

[Shia-Neko-Chan]

I been to striptease show and I can tell you it is way classier than any anime. And I have watched anime and I can tell you 99% of it has no class or rank.

According to quantum superposition theory I have seen everything that can, is, will be, might, can't be, would be, might not be. Therefor I have seen all anime and I have drawn a conclusion from it.

Let's just say it like this. I spent 8 months doing part time as sensor for a TV channel that aired lot of foreign stuff. It meant watching a whole series, then marking down a tick list about them. And since I was "young hip kid" I got a quarter of standard nautical metric ton of Anime.

4-6 hours a day that to pay living so I could have money that was not my parents while studying.
Worst 8 months of my life.

Also. "To be entitled for a subjective opinion you do not need a objective study of the subject."
In my opinion everything that is pastel colored looks ugly and horrible, because I hate pastel color range. I also hate the year 1234 and the incoming 4321.

But yeah - what I have seen when I had to and when I was arsed to, 99% of anime has nor class. But please: do list that same fucking list of bebob, souldrinker, boobs and big swords and neon conclusion mechabollocks... etc to convert my opinion.

Which mainly is - I don't or respect 99% of anime. There are few movies I happen to like, because they are diamond encrusted finger smearing cool cream on your brain compared to rest of mass media that gets bombarded from all 1½ and 2/3rd corners of the world.

Okay? I don't see how your closed minded idea of what anime is or how much class it has needs to be expressed here, though.

We get it. You don't like anime. *shrug* It doesn't change our lives at all. Stop antagonizing the people in this thread.

 

[SinisterGehe]

I been to striptease show and I can tell you it is way classier than any anime. And I have watched anime and I can tell you 99% of it has no class or rank.

According to quantum superposition theory I have seen everything that can, is, will be, might, can't be, would be, might not be. Therefor I have seen all anime and I have drawn a conclusion from it.

Let's just say it like this. I spent 8 months doing part time as sensor for a TV channel that aired lot of foreign stuff. It meant watching a whole series, then marking down a tick list about them. And since I was "young hip kid" I got a quarter of standard nautical metric ton of Anime.

4-6 hours a day that to pay living so I could have money that was not my parents while studying.
Worst 8 months of my life.

Also. "To be entitled for a subjective opinion you do not need a objective study of the subject."
In my opinion everything that is pastel colored looks ugly and horrible, because I hate pastel color range. I also hate the year 1234 and the incoming 4321.

But yeah - what I have seen when I had to and when I was arsed to, 99% of anime has nor class. But please: do list that same fucking list of bebob, souldrinker, boobs and big swords and neon conclusion mechabollocks... etc to convert my opinion.

Which mainly is - I don't or respect 99% of anime. There are few movies I happen to like, because they are diamond encrusted finger smearing cool cream on your brain compared to rest of mass media that gets bombarded from all 1½ and 2/3rd corners of the world.

Okay? I don't see how your closed minded idea of what anime is or how much class it has needs to be expressed here, though.

We get it. You don't like anime. *shrug* It doesn't change our lives at all. Stop antagonizing the people in this thread.

I did that when? Or more delicious question... How?

I am not making them to be bad guys. I am just calling out on a genre of media that I find distasteful. And unless they are producing factor in that media, I haven't said a bad thing about them. Hell who knows, maybe one of the people on this topic might be the love of my life hat I will meet in 1 hour 2 minutes 3 seconds and 2 light years from now. It wouldn't change anything if love likes anime or that you like anime.

I dislike you equally as I dislike the yapping dog next door that kept me awake this miserable night, or the packet of oxamin I took to calm myself down from stuffing the delicious idea of stuffing dry ice through the letterbox in to their apartment when the owner leaves to work in hopes of suffocating the dog. But they don't have letter box on their door neither do I have dry ice and I am quite sure that they don't even have a dog or that I have a neighbout since the apartment next to me is empty space 5 floor from the ground, only existing as a quantum hypercube with door made of light and depleted uranium. It's mere existence is to be the door from which the society of talking fish with 2 legs nailed to their sides and wearing scuba gear can launch their invasion to take over the land and force us to live underwater.

 

[Shia-Neko-Chan]

I been to striptease show and I can tell you it is way classier than any anime. And I have watched anime and I can tell you 99% of it has no class or rank.

According to quantum superposition theory I have seen everything that can, is, will be, might, can't be, would be, might not be. Therefor I have seen all anime and I have drawn a conclusion from it.

Let's just say it like this. I spent 8 months doing part time as sensor for a TV channel that aired lot of foreign stuff. It meant watching a whole series, then marking down a tick list about them. And since I was "young hip kid" I got a quarter of standard nautical metric ton of Anime.

4-6 hours a day that to pay living so I could have money that was not my parents while studying.
Worst 8 months of my life.

Also. "To be entitled for a subjective opinion you do not need a objective study of the subject."
In my opinion everything that is pastel colored looks ugly and horrible, because I hate pastel color range. I also hate the year 1234 and the incoming 4321.

But yeah - what I have seen when I had to and when I was arsed to, 99% of anime has nor class. But please: do list that same fucking list of bebob, souldrinker, boobs and big swords and neon conclusion mechabollocks... etc to convert my opinion.

Which mainly is - I don't or respect 99% of anime. There are few movies I happen to like, because they are diamond encrusted finger smearing cool cream on your brain compared to rest of mass media that gets bombarded from all 1½ and 2/3rd corners of the world.

Okay? I don't see how your closed minded idea of what anime is or how much class it has needs to be expressed here, though.

We get it. You don't like anime. *shrug* It doesn't change our lives at all. Stop antagonizing the people in this thread.

I did that when? Or more delicious question... How?

I am not making them to be bad guys. I am just calling out on a genre of media that I find distasteful. And unless they are producing factor in that media, I haven't said a bad thing about them. Hell who knows, maybe one of the people on this topic might be the love of my life hat I will meet in 1 hour 2 minutes 3 seconds and 2 light years from now. It wouldn't change anything if love likes anime or that you like anime.

I dislike you equally as I dislike the yapping dog next door that kept me awake this miserable night, or the packet of oxamin I took to calm myself down from stuffing the delicious idea of stuffing dry ice through the letterbox in to their apartment when the owner leaves to work in hopes of suffocating the dog. But they don't have letter box on their door neither do I have dry ice and I am quite sure that they don't even have a dog or that I have a neighbout since the apartment next to me is empty space 5 floor from the ground, only existing as a quantum hypercube with door made of light and depleted uranium. It's mere existence is to be the door from which the society of talking fish with 2 legs nailed to their sides and wearing scuba gear can launch their invasion to take over the land and force us to live underwater.

You did exactly what I said you're doing. You're trolling. You're basically derailing this thread to tell the people you know like anime, very aggressively and tactlessly, that "a striptease has more class than 99% of anime". You presented your opinion as fact, then you challenged them to "please: do list that same fucking list of bebob, souldrinker, boobs and big swords and neon conclusion mechabollocks... etc to convert my opinion."

All I'm asking is that you stop trolling this thread and trying to get a rise out of people. :/

Nobody cares or should care about your opinion of anime being worthless or classless and nobody is going to try to convert you.

 

[Seydaman]

Well. Some people find soft-core (bikinis etc.) more attractive than straight up hardcore porn. Beyond that, I dunno. Porn has become really boring tbh...

 

[Seydaman]

Good to see you've done your research ^-^
The problem is that aestheticism still promotes mood and tone through the beauty that it creates. Empty beauty is still empty.

Of course, but that's just a biproduct of "because it looks pretty".

Also, do you honestly think that out of place ecchi is a statement based in aestheticism?

Good lord no, just pointing out that something being done purely to look good doesn't disqualify it from being art.

isn't well..a lot of art done purely to look good? I don't write a story with the intent of boring my reader to death...

 

[Paragon Fury]

Some videogames are pretty pornograhic in an exploitative kind of way, though that doesn't necessarily make them porn.

Case in point: Just about every game by Team Ninja (except DOA Extreme Volleyball)

I wouldn't call DoAX pornogrpahic either. Women in bikini's isn't considered "porn" - hell, you can sell the Swimsuit issue of SI and Maxium and all those out in the open in most stores and those are way worse than DoAX ever thinks of being most of the time.

 

[Paragon Fury]

So, I would ask you; is something like this a "just go watch porn" moment, or is the concept of idol girls-turned-submission-wrestlers to be considered something else? (Not having watch the show myself, the clips make it look like it would hilarious)

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

So after going through the comments for an anime video I was watching, I came upon the line I so neatly paraphrased in the title several times. Its not just an isolated thing either; basically any where in games and anime where you can find an attractive woman wearing less than full plate armor covered in censor bars you'll find that accusation, or one similar to it. Even here on the Escapist.

All other issues aside, something I've always wondered (and when asked never gotten a response) is this; what if the person watching doesn't like porn? Despite porn's popularity there are many people who just don't like it, and there is a big difference between "ecchi" and "naughty" and actual porn.

Women in bikinis is not porn (imagine the economies that would destroyed if it was!). Women with nice features isn't porn. Women being seductive/playful isn't porn either. Maybe that is one of the reasons people watch it. To see something they DO like without having to see something they DON'T like?

But nope. According to the Internet, its just that these people apparently know enough to work Youtube or a PS3 but can't figure out how to work Google.

Ironically at one time women in bras was porn. Apparently our parents as teens would wait for the Kohls booklet to come sunday or whatever and take a peek at the semi nudes.

Now if she isn't tied upside down and taking it from every direction it barely registers on the internet.

Honestly though porn is an escape, either because you don't have the opportunity in real life to meet your desires or your too afraid to experience them personally.