Why not topless ?
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Up here where I live its legal for girls to run around without tops, they just don't do it unfortunatly 
Ultimately my point is that everything within society is based off of religous beleifs, if you can accept that don't both reading the wall below.cuddly_tomato said:[spoiler "text"]
You could, but the chances are you would end up looking a bit daft. What the argument would boil down too is priests and other members of the clergy being involved in a massive conspiracy to stop women getting naked in public. It would make 9/11 conspiracy theorists look sane.Dys said:
Ok I wouldn't go quite that far, but the argument would unravel on at least two points:-
1. Atheists don't all want to tear their clothes off and run naked through the streets, and only some of the more bizarre (or possibly sex-starved) atheists are complaining about this issue. Atheist societies (USSR, China, Cambodia etc) never all repealed sex laws. In fact they made sex laws (and all other laws for that matter) considerably more conservative.
2. Being topless has nothing to do with sexual conservatism. People want so have orgies? People want to have sex with 9 people at once? People want their girlfriend to beat them black and blue then hose them down with ice water? Is 14 old enough to start having sex? Sex before marriage? Are same sex relations acceptable? That's the kind of thing sexual conservatism covers and yes, various nutters from religious factions tend to put their retarded oar in whenever those things get mentioned. But walking around in the nud? Naah
Liking chains and leather is a sexual liberation matter, whether we want topless women jogging in the park while we are kicking a football around with the kids is something else.
Ohhh and....
...a trial. Get 30 male kids of that age. Get them a female teacher. And then have her teach them quadratic equations, topless. Have a topless guy teach another 30 young male kids. See which group actually succeeds.][/spoiler]
My whole arguament is that religon has shaped the trends within society. Atheists have still been raised in the same society with the same morals set by religon (usually christianity), whether they choose to accept it or not. All western countries have had their trends heavily influenced by religon for hundreds of years, it's only been in the past hundred that people have refuted the existance of god. These people that do refute the existance of god (Atheists etc) still largely accept the morals set down by Him, but simply deny His existance. Eg most Atheists do not endorse theft, murder, rape etc. Religon endoctrinated these beleifs and made them common, without religons influence who can say what men (and women) of (or not of) god would beleive.
Again the same point hits you're arguament about the teachers. The children who would be trialed in school would've been raised in a society the makes a topless woman (or rather he BOOBIES) a sexual entity. It is not uncommon for women in third world counties to be constantly topless, and nobody within the communities see it as being in any way innapropriate or distracting. I know in aboriginal culture it is shocking to show your feet (to not be wearing shoes) and for many years it was innapropriate for women to show their legs above the knee, we obviously do do not share these beleifs, because for whatever reason society has evolved in such a way that they are no longer issues.
The trends set by an individual are not nearly as relevant as the trends set by the religon of the majority, as people will naturally adapt to the social system they are in (especially children)
Dys said:Ultimately my point is that everything within society is based off of religous beleifs, if you can accept that don't both reading the wall below.cuddly_tomato said:[spoiler "text"]
You could, but the chances are you would end up looking a bit daft. What the argument would boil down too is priests and other members of the clergy being involved in a massive conspiracy to stop women getting naked in public. It would make 9/11 conspiracy theorists look sane.Dys said:
Ok I wouldn't go quite that far, but the argument would unravel on at least two points:-
1. Atheists don't all want to tear their clothes off and run naked through the streets, and only some of the more bizarre (or possibly sex-starved) atheists are complaining about this issue. Atheist societies (USSR, China, Cambodia etc) never all repealed sex laws. In fact they made sex laws (and all other laws for that matter) considerably more conservative.
2. Being topless has nothing to do with sexual conservatism. People want so have orgies? People want to have sex with 9 people at once? People want their girlfriend to beat them black and blue then hose them down with ice water? Is 14 old enough to start having sex? Sex before marriage? Are same sex relations acceptable? That's the kind of thing sexual conservatism covers and yes, various nutters from religious factions tend to put their retarded oar in whenever those things get mentioned. But walking around in the nud? Naah
Liking chains and leather is a sexual liberation matter, whether we want topless women jogging in the park while we are kicking a football around with the kids is something else.
Ohhh and....
...a trial. Get 30 male kids of that age. Get them a female teacher. And then have her teach them quadratic equations, topless. Have a topless guy teach another 30 young male kids. See which group actually succeeds.][/spoiler]
My whole arguament is that religon has shaped the trends within society. Atheists have still been raised in the same society with the same morals set by religon (usually christianity), whether they choose to accept it or not. All western countries have had their trends heavily influenced by religon for hundreds of years, it's only been in the past hundred that people have refuted the existance of god. These people that do refute the existance of god (Atheists etc) still largely accept the morals set down by Him, but simply deny His existance. Eg most Atheists do not endorse theft, murder, rape etc. Religon endoctrinated these beleifs and made them common, without religons influence who can say what men (and women) of (or not of) god would beleive.
Again the same point hits you're arguament about the teachers. The children who would be trialed in school would've been raised in a society the makes a topless woman (or rather he BOOBIES) a sexual entity. It is not uncommon for women in third world counties to be constantly topless, and nobody within the communities see it as being in any way innapropriate or distracting. I know in aboriginal culture it is shocking to show your feet (to not be wearing shoes) and for many years it was innapropriate for women to show their legs above the knee, we obviously do do not share these beleifs, because for whatever reason society has evolved in such a way that they are no longer issues.
The trends set by an individual are not nearly as relevant as the trends set by the religon of the majority, as people will naturally adapt to the social system they are in (especially children)
Yes there are many places where women are topless and it is not sexual we have just been taught that they are,and the prohibition of them and the rarity of seeing them is what gets guys off. Now I am talking about normal boobs not supermodel ones because those are rather rare anyway, unless you live in California.
Lots of men could not handle women walking around topless, mainly here in America. In many European countries it is ok on the beach. I saw it in Nice, France and after a while it did not matter to me at all anymore. In Holland they have prostitutes just sitting topless in store windows. In Africa and other such places it is normal for tribal women to to so. But here in America, I just do not believe that my fellow American men could handle such a thing in mass. Sorry ladies I know you should be able too, but let's all be honest, it would never be practical.
At this point that is true, but if the culture gradually eased into it then we can but that takes time.axia777 said:
I don't know there are a lot of things people said will never happen, that eventually did. I really can't say what will happen in the future.axia777 said:
I love boobies. I would hate to walk around all day with a boner and I would rather not be desensitized to them.
This is why. This is no joke. PatientGrasshopper may be able to handle it and would I, but millions of horny American male teen agers and men would never be able to handle it. That is a fact.Naterstein said:
This is to the ladies here. How many times a week to you catch men staring at your ass or chest? Now try to imagine this with you breasts bare to the world. Now try to imagine every single minute of the day that you went topless all over the place. Yah, right.
kapzer said:
genauguy said:
I think that pretty much sums it up. Im a guy and personally i dont really mind. I think the fact that we're not seeing them all the time is part of the appeal. its the mystery that makes nudity so awesome and if you take that away, I feel like you would be taking some of the fun out of sex... just my opinion though. im sure most guys would probably disagree.
Yeah! Men shouldn't be allowed to go topless either!
Okey okey, here's one for ya. If a girl is arrested for indecent exposure because she's only wearing bra & panty, she goes to jail, but if she says that she is wearing a bikini, she gets a warning ticket & is told to keep to the beaches. How do you explain that one?
Okey okey, here's one for ya. If a girl is arrested for indecent exposure because she's only wearing bra & panty, she goes to jail, but if she says that she is wearing a bikini, she gets a warning ticket & is told to keep to the beaches. How do you explain that one?