Why online distribution will suck

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CannibalCorpses

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Aug 21, 2011
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weker said:
CannibalCorpses said:
weker said:
What benefit do you feel from DRM? Is it something that adds to your experience or is it possibly just a stumbling block for you in the future? The online only DRMs are going to have an effect the first time your internet goes down for any length of time and how will that benefit you?
I feel there is a large benefit for the developers which has a back lash to the consumer.
It also helps games like Diablo 3 to help stop cheaters from breaking the games auction house.
There are some more subtle forms of DRM like Steam, which gives you a friends list as well as create sales and other things.
Not all DRM is good I just don't intend to be single minded and crucify all forms of it.
There is a benefit to publishers for sure but it doesn't have much effect on developers because they get paid regardless. Will developers get paid more if publishers make more money? I don't know is the honest answer, it does sometimes work out that way in other businesses but is by no means certain. I'm not sure if they get royalties as part of their deal so i can't really explore that further.

Diablo is a strange one because you can't actually play it offline anymore. You used to have to make a new character to play online so i'm not sure how stopping you playing it offline will have much effect other than to stop people who don't have internet or who have poor connections from playing at all. Game exploits and bugs will still remain and that will have an effect on the game over time, like it does with all games. People will always try to find an easier route to what they perceive as the end goal.

I'm not crucifying DRM i'm just trying to find one positive effect for the consumer. I hear lots of people jumping to it's defence but until i see a real bonus for me i will always remain sceptical as to how it could be used against me in the future.

I don't use steam so i can't really comment much on it but can you play steam games offline or do you need to be signed into steam and online?

Anyway, i've got a job interview so i wont be replying for a while.
 

CorvusFerreum

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Jun 13, 2011
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NLS said:
Chris Binkley said:
Except no second hand game stores deal in PC games. They can't actually because of you having in register the games.
This. For us PC gamers, this has been the "hard" reality for the past 8 or so years, and I'm totally okay with it. Online distribution won't change that.
Online distribution kinda has lead to this. And seriously: I don't really accept this. I hate it, that Steam has become DRM for so many games, I hate the trend to stuff like allways online DRM and I especially hate, that I technicly don't own the fucking games I pay fucking money for. I seriously considered pirating copies of the Total War games since Empire because I can run them without having to deal with steam. I bought them anyway, but with a bitter aftertaste. And those who pirate don't need to deal with that sort of shit. They don't need to register at Steam, if they don't want to. And they have all the content on the disc unloked without having to pay extra bugs.

I want the industry to make profit, I like digital distribution, but I hate being srewed over and forced to use it, just because the industry feels like it's not getting enough of the cake. And I hate to not be able to do what I want with stuff I've bought (like modding or, indeed, reselling).

/rant
 

Dogstile

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Jan 17, 2009
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NameIsRobertPaulson said:
bahumat42 said:
NameIsRobertPaulson said:
number2301 said:
NameIsRobertPaulson said:
Fanta Grape said:
They die out and either move into the online distribution business, another sector of the gaming production, or simply start a new sort of business. I hate to sound entitled but when it comes to games, it's really all about the customer and the player. I don't think this will negatively effect the production of games and all it really does is kill off something that doesn't need to exist in the first place.
Fanta Grape said:
They die out and either move into the online distribution business, another sector of the gaming production, or simply start a new sort of business. I hate to sound entitled but when it comes to games, it's really all about the customer and the player. I don't think this will negatively effect the production of games and all it really does is kill off something that doesn't need to exist in the first place.
2nd hand sales don't need to exist? Really? REALLY? So things like Craigslist should be illegal? Used car dealerships hurt the car business? Garage sales are destroying the economy?

Really?
Your car comparison is massively flawed. Car manufacturers make a great deal of money, maybe even the majority, on servicing, parts and finance. A 2nd hand game is effectively the same as a new one, a 2nd hand car is considerably different to a new one.
Without 2nd hand game sales, publishers could charge as much as they wanted. $80 or $90 games wouldn't be out of the question. 2nd hand sales keep the market in check.

I still cannot see for the life of me how a used game is different from a used book, a used CD, or a used weight set.
You really don't understand economics do you. Companies CAN ONLY charge what people are willing to charge. Hell even at the £30-40 price point they have to lower over time because they know (well good companies do) that they have sold to everyone willing to pay that much.

You know what would happen if they rose prices, people would buy less games, and as a byproduct probably do other things like cinema,drinking,sports etc. The only reason that acitivision can get away with their price hike is because for this horrible second in time that is essentially THE game to own if you own a console (to casuals at least anyway).
Economists said people wouldn't keep buying as many games when prices went from $50 to $60. People ended up buying more. And with no other way to buy them but new, people will have to throw $80 or $90 for a game easy. If you a game that would sell 4 million copies at $60, you would likely sell 3 million copies at $80 if that's their only choice. What else can you do? Abandon gaming altogether?
You're not actually posting any sources, which makes your argument not exactly valid. I'm going to assume you meant the Modern Warfare 2 price hike, which again, does not count in the UK at least because a major fuck up made it so that we all got the game for roughly half the usual price for games, which is £20.

But one game being marked up in price doesn't mean everyone can do it, the only reason activision got away with it is because their game breaks sales records. Its not as if every company can claim that.
 

Jodah

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Aug 2, 2008
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Eh I dunno that its really that big a deal. PC games haven't really seen much in the ways of resale since CD keys were implemented. Now if DD becomes big for consoles it may become more of an issue and the first step is happening soon with the Vita but we will have to see how that pans out.
 

SilverUchiha

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NameIsRobertPaulson said:
Fanta Grape said:
They die out and either move into the online distribution business, another sector of the gaming production, or simply start a new sort of business. I hate to sound entitled but when it comes to games, it's really all about the customer and the player. I don't think this will negatively effect the production of games and all it really does is kill off something that doesn't need to exist in the first place.
Fanta Grape said:
They die out and either move into the online distribution business, another sector of the gaming production, or simply start a new sort of business. I hate to sound entitled but when it comes to games, it's really all about the customer and the player. I don't think this will negatively effect the production of games and all it really does is kill off something that doesn't need to exist in the first place.
2nd hand sales don't need to exist? Really? REALLY? So things like Craigslist should be illegal? Used car dealerships hurt the car business? Garage sales are destroying the economy?

Really?
I don't believe they're saying they are "wrong" and shouldn't exist. But that, in the end, there is no reason to keep them around. Sure, they're nice for cheap games. And we all know digital distribution console wide will take a while (so long as Nintendo and Xbox are still around, yes I think PS3 will be the first to try it). So we have 2nd-hand retailers for a while and they'll provide a good service for acquiring old Nintendo games we've lost of to get us old Ps2 games we missed out on. But I don't think they'll be necessary services once the digital distribution thing is all the industry does. I will say that if companies bring back old games to be digitally distributed, there should be a way I can get titles I already own for free so I'm not forced into buying multiple copies for the next console iteration.
 

Navvan

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Feb 3, 2011
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NameIsRobertPaulson said:
Fanta Grape said:
They die out and either move into the online distribution business, another sector of the gaming production, or simply start a new sort of business. I hate to sound entitled but when it comes to games, it's really all about the customer and the player. I don't think this will negatively effect the production of games and all it really does is kill off something that doesn't need to exist in the first place.

2nd hand sales don't need to exist? Really? REALLY? So things like Craigslist should be illegal? Used car dealerships hurt the car business? Garage sales are destroying the economy?

Really?
I won't get into the whole "are used video games hurting the manufacturer debate" but its rather clear that a used market does not have to exist. Not having them certainly won't hurt the industry and it won't really hurt the consumer either. For the consumer with things like steam sales happening several times a year you can get a good deal on a game if you're willing to wait for a price reduction in a similar fashion that you can get a used game. Price reductions also occur, and there is even the occasional free game. While the whole swap used games thing is kinda dead in the water, that is the price you pay for convenience. The industry certainly won' mind. The major used game distributors also don't really give any good deals anyway. I've certainly never seen any as good as a steam sale at my local stores.

You also blew that post out of proportion. Neither did they say it should be illegal to sell used games nor that it should be illegal to sell used goods in general. They simply stated that the deterioration of the used game market will likely be inconsequential to the consumer.
 

direkiller

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Dec 4, 2008
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Sakash said:
Don't get me wrong, i absolutely love steam and other distributors. In fact since i started buying games online i haven't bought a physical copy of a game in years. But after watching the most recent Jimquisition, he said that online passes will destroy second hand game sales.

And then i saw my steam account.

I have over 60 games and i quickly realized that those games are mine FOREVER (unless of course you lose your account)
That means i cant sell, swap or even give away these games when i get bored of them or have simply played them through. Which leads us to the point of: If the popularity of online distribution gets so popular that future consoles and PC's will simply download all their games, what happens to the second retailer or buyer?
You haven't been able to get PC games second hand for a while now due to CD keys and online regetration so i don't see the problem.
unless consoles doing this as well in which case not everywhere has good internet so brick and mortar stores are not going to die out any time soon
 

razer17

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Feb 3, 2009
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NameIsRobertPaulson said:
Economists said people wouldn't keep buying as many games when prices went from $50 to $60. People ended up buying more. And with no other way to buy them but new, people will have to throw $80 or $90 for a game easy. If you a game that would sell 4 million copies at $60, you would likely sell 3 million copies at $80 if that's their only choice. What else can you do? Abandon gaming altogether?
LEt's not forget that the market has been growing massively in the last ten years. More customers means more sales, but as a percentage of customers who are buying games, it drops. Now when you consider that today the market for consoles and gaming PC's is a lot more saturated, there consumer base can't expand enough to keep making the same kind of money. If games went up to 80 or $90 then people would stop buying games, or be very selective about what games they buy. Some people only buy 3 or 4 new release titles are year now, because that's all they can afford. IF games were $90, maybe they'd only buy 2, so two developers would lose out.

Not only that, but the market for 70-80% scoring games would significantly drop, as everyone tries to buy only the best games that come out. At the moment a lot of people can't afford to buy many games. I can't imagine how much more rampant piracy would become if they really raised prices that much.
 

ManOwaRrior

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Apr 12, 2011
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Give us ways to digitally rent games like we do with movies. Properly done it solves a lot of problems.
 

hooksashands

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Apr 11, 2010
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When I was little, I saved up and bought physical games and music. Then as I got older the vinyls and tapes and cartridges were all replaced by shimmery plastic discs, and I started hearing about how they were going to encode them and do wonderful things. Still, I think then and there I knew there would be a dark side to it. And sure enough, along comes piracy and code verification and people being put in jail cells with rapists for downloading mp3s or cracking games.

I wish we could go back to a simpler time.
 

Pakkie

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Apr 4, 2010
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Things such as Steam accounts and Battle.net accounts etc... Are bought and sold regularly, its actually quite a "big" business.
Although, it is completely illegal and pretty dodgy so I don't partake, I just know a lot of sites where it does happen.
 

Sud0_x

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Dec 16, 2009
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Hardcore_gamer said:
Miles000 said:
It takes me 2 days to download an 8gig game -_-
0_o

How is that even possible?

I have a fairly decent internet connection, and I live on a god damn island in the middle of the atlantic.
You think that's bad?

[http://www.speedtest.net]

I hate these threads, people just don't give a fuck if it doesn't affect them.
These days I have to check for the Steam logo on the back of the box, if it's there then 9 times out of 10 I'll put that game back.
Too many times I've suffered that inconvenience.

It seems like such a small thing, and I know I'm in the minority, but if DD gets any more market share it's looking pretty bleak for guys like me. Non-optional online services kick me in the balls too, I've posted before about the time a couple years ago when my hours at work took a hit right after I'd moved into a new place and I could barely afford to feed myself. I could only dream of having the luxury of the internet.


Not to mention it's cheaper for me to buy a new release on ebay (incl. shipping) than it is to buy it in a store or on Steam.
How ridiculous is that? On top of that our government is still trying to play nanny.

You know what? Perhaps I'll take up knitting...
 

Tanakh

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Jul 8, 2011
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ManOwaRrior said:
Give us ways to digitally rent games like we do with movies. Properly done it solves a lot of problems.
http://www.onlive.com/ ? I think its crap, but it is more or less what you asked for.
 

alinos

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Nov 18, 2009
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Easy they evaporate. As they should.

Sure some underfunded people buy secondhand games because it's the only way they can experience these titles.

But as with the most common argument against those who say i pirate because im poor in a piracy thread. You aren't entitled to play these games. You pay for your access or not at all. And in this case, your not paying the developer anything which means technically speaking you sit in the same space as a pirate for doing so. The only difference being you gave your money to gamestop(or somewhere else).

If you can't afford all the games you want maybe you should be planning what you buy. Instead of going i need all my games at release how about buy the ones you enjoy or believe will get you the highest amount of playtime(thus meaning you need to buy games less often). And then you get to the Steam sales which happen 2-3 times a year(plus any other cheap sellers like GMG,Gamersgate etc.) and buy these games when they are on special

Not to mention that technically speaking pricing should drop

A) because they don't have to account for the risk of used copies being sold
B) because they are just hosting a bunch of 1's and 0's.

As someone who live's in australia and as a result publishers have been forcing "Australian Pricing" on steam because retailer's are complaining that they can't compete when they sell for 100AUD, and steam sells for 50US. So they started charging 90US for those title's.

But the fact is that most of the time these retailers don't compete anyway. I had a friend who still like retail go to buy Dead Island on launch day from EBgames, Walked in wasn't on the shelf asked the guy behind the counter. and we were literally told "Oh we didn't order any in, No one pre-ordered and since we can't resell them they aren't a high priority, we can get you a copy in a week if you want"
 

FoolKiller

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Feb 8, 2008
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If everything goes online all the time, I will permanently become a retro gamer. I like the physical copies. Many times, even in the last five years, I have not had access to high speed internet (either lack of funds or availability) and so I rely on gaming being the single player thing it was for me.

There are literally thousands of games in existence that I can play without ever going online if I have the consoles. I think I will stick to that once it becomes online all the time.
 

intheweeds

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Apr 6, 2011
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Personally, I am torn. I do like my physical copies, but I have a lot of Steam games and it's nice to not have to find yet another place to store yet another cool box. But that is as far as I care about the distribution method.

Does the used game market need to exist? No. You can buy games from others on Craigslist for a decent price (actual used value) and online sales are crazy good sometimes.

Seriously though, I want to go to the Gamestop everyone else is going to where used games are significantly cheaper. Where is this alleged store? It certainly isn't in my city! If the book is missing or there is no cover, sure they'll knock off two bucks, but used is not much cheaper than new. You think you save money by giving them your old games, but it's actually more expensive for you since you are giving them more games then they are giving you value in return.

For instance at my Gamestop (which is an EB Games being in Canada), MW2 is 49.99 new(still) and 39.99 used. Ignore the prices online, they are not applicable in store (they even say 'online only' below the price). Sure this is a CoD game, but the same thing applies to all other games I've noticed. How broke do you have to be to buy the used copy in that situation? If $10 makes the difference to you, maybe you should spend your money on food or something because you clearly have some serious cash-flow issues. Some games are even worse for new/used value. Why is everyone so stressed about losing used game sales? Do you all just enjoy being ripped off?

Is this just my stores? Why don't we all just en masse take our used games to Craigslist and sell them to each other for an actual fair price? Seriously, why is anyone defending this market?

Games are expensive, they always have been. Suck it up. I'm not playing Deus Ex right now because I have a family to take care of. I will get it when I get it. Sure I could trade in my used games and get it cheaper, but like I said - it isn't cheaper. Do this two or three times and suddenly you have three games on your shelf where there were twenty before and you are still broke. What are you gonna play then?
 

Project_Xii

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Jul 5, 2009
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Errrmmm... when has anyone EVER sold a PC game for any decent amount of money? Especially ones that involve CD keys and more recent DRM.

I got 600 games on my Steam account, and I'm glad they're mine forever. I only paid pittens for them after all: almost nothing over $10. It means at any point I can download, install and play any game I want, without having to look for the hard copy, patch it, fix it, whatever to work with the lastest OS's. Easy, convenient, and I'll have the entire catalog to pass onto my kids one day and make sure they enjoy the history of video games.

DD is the way of the future. Assimilate or get left behind. The Borg demand it.