WHY RHIANNA WHY!?!?!?

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Veldt Falsetto

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So Rhianna Pratchett is a fairly big name in game story writing nowadays, taking a quick look at her Wikipedia page she has either written or co-written the story on the following games:-

Beyond Divinity
Stronghold Legends
Heavenly Sword
Overlord
Overlord: Raising Hell
Viking: Battle for Asgard
Mirror's Edge
Prince of Persia
Overlord: Minions
Overlord: Dark Legend
Overlord II
Risen
CSI: Fatal Conspiracy
Bioshock Infinite
Tomb Raider
Beat Buddy: Tale of the Guardians
Thief

This is a fairly varied list but how can all these games be written by the same person? The tone and quality vary ridiculously.

After playing Thief through recently I can tell you the story makes about 0 sense while Bioshock and Tomb Raider are two of my favourite stories in gaming.

Either way, are you surprised by any of these games, have you played any that you love or hate the story? How do we feel about probably the most prominent female figure in video games development?
 

gargantual

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well it happens. It ain't easy. I'm sure Richard Morgan is a good writer in his own right, but look at the disjoints in Crysis 2's story. Good setup, pretty familiar premises, but not as full of an execution as it could have been.

Cormac Mc Carthy's an awesome novelist, but his 1st foray into screenwriting for "The Counselor" didn't prove as good.

Consider maybe it's not the writer but sometimes clashes with the format, and the rest of a large teams ability to interpret where the writer wants to go. Even with a pretty good writer Sometimes you can still hit and sometimes you miss in video games, most everything you do and see as a player has to align.

When it didn't back in the old days we were younger so we didn't care as long as it played well.

 

Darth Rosenberg

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I love Rhianna Pratchett (figuratively speaking. although she is rather tasty, too), but using Infinite as an example of her craft might be stretching it. Her credit is something like 'additional writing', which in actuality could mean she just wrote a couple of lines for a vending machine or misc NPC... Agreed about Tomb Raider, as long as we're talking Lara's arc and not the pointless 'plot' which telegraphed its every juncture in skyscraper high neon.

I'd actually like to play a few of those on that list, primarily to see how she handled certain characters - Mirror's Edge and Heavenly Sword being two, even if I gather it wasn't exactly her at the height of her character narrative powers or influence.

Was she a lead writer on Thief?
 

Veldt Falsetto

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Darth Rosenberg said:
I love Rhianna Pratchett (figuratively speaking. although she is rather tasty, too), but using Infinite as an example of her craft might be stretching it. Her credit is something like 'additional writing', which in actuality could mean she just wrote a couple of lines for a vending machine or misc NPC... Agreed about Tomb Raider, as long as we're talking Lara's arc and not the pointless 'plot' which telegraphed its every juncture in skyscraper high neon.

I'd actually like to play a few of those on that list, primarily to see how she handled certain characters - Mirror's Edge and Heavenly Sword being two, even if I gather it wasn't exactly her at the height of her character narrative powers or influence.

Was she a lead writer on Thief?
Says story writer and cinematics for Thief so I'm guessing so.

You're right about Bioshock but y'know, she had a hand in it and I bet most people don't have a clue she did, I didn't.
 

Uhura

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Veldt Falsetto said:
Darth Rosenberg said:
Was she a lead writer on Thief?
Says story writer and cinematics for Thief so I'm guessing so.
I don't think she was the lead writer. According to her twitter she did "some world building stuff a few years back" and a few of the "pre-rendered cinematics."

http://www.incgamers.com/2014/02/rhianna-pratchett-chose-talk-work-thief

It's kinda unclear what exactly she did write, but doesn't sound like the lead writer to me.
 

Casual Shinji

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To me everything in Tomb Raider made about zero sense as well. The rest I haven't played or were too bland for me to even remember the plot.
 

krazykidd

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I don't care who writes the stories. It could be a famous author or a 12 year old. As long as the story is engaging enough to keep my attention . For me story> gameplay. I don't bother with finding out who wrote it or whatnot. Anything other than devs/publishers i don't really care.
 

MysticSlayer

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Honestly, as far as I'm concerned, that seems like a rather crappy list of game stories. Granted, I haven't played most of those games, but the ones I have played or at least know a little bit about don't really impress me. Mirror's Edge is probably the best of that list as far as I've played, and I'd still say that was an incredibly weak story. Maybe Tomb Raider was good (still haven't gotten around to it), but I don't really have high expectations if my best experience with the writer was Mirror's Edge.
 

BrotherRool

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Veldt Falsetto said:
This is a fairly varied list but how can all these games be written by the same person? The tone and quality vary ridiculously.
I don't think Ms Pratchett has a lot of clout. I get the impression that she gets brought into projects where narrative was something of a second thought, she often talks in interviews about how games need to bring in the writers earlier and get them more involved with everything in the project. If you look at the games with really strong narratives, it tends to be the lead designer whose been the writer who really pushed it. It's those instances where the designers are on board with the story and making sure the two match up well and make sense.

A traditional scenario for Rhianna I expect goes something like this. 'Hi we need a writer. Our game plays like this, we want it to have this tone and the central character to look this and be X. We've completed a couple of levels and we plan to do these too, except we not sure which ones will make it into the final game. Also we may add in some new levels later. Could you write us some cutscenes and dialogue so that the levels make sense?'

In fact I wouldn't even be surprised if they've made parts of the cutscenes without her input before and asked her to make the rest fit, or write the story so that scene fits in with everything else.

She does this for a living, they probably don't pay her well since she's never the main creative input and she probably gets brought in to touch up bad projects. I think that probably explains why the quality and types of work vary so much

EDIT: Even games with creative leads which are onboard with the story have a lot of this. The Uncharted games were written with the set-pieces already under construction, which is why Uncharted 3's story feels so messed up and disjointed. They had a list of things they wanted to do and then came up with a story to explain them afterwards
 

Animyr

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gargantual said:
well it happens. It ain't easy. I'm sure Richard Morgan is a good writer in his own right, but look at the disjoints in Crysis 2's story. Good setup, pretty familiar premises, but not as full of an execution as it could have been.
It was one of those games where the writer was brought in halfway through production and alot of the levels were already built. That's just setting yourself up for a narrative fizzle, really.
 

The Madman

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Alls I know for sure is that she desperately needs to convince her father to get into games again. Back in ye olden days there were a sparse few Diskworld games, but that was ages ago. AGES! We need an open world Discworld rpg asap. I'm thinking get Double Fine to do it ala Brutal Legend.

This needs to happen.
 

Jamash

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I've only played the Overlord games, but could she be a consultant co-writer for the female characters?

The mistresses in Overlord are strong, ambitious women who are almost an equal to the Overlord, so perhaps she helps write the female characters to ensure they're good examples of women without being over the top or unrealistic and offensive examples of females in those games.
 

gargantual

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Animyr said:
gargantual said:
well it happens. It ain't easy. I'm sure Richard Morgan is a good writer in his own right, but look at the disjoints in Crysis 2's story. Good setup, pretty familiar premises, but not as full of an execution as it could have been.
It was one of those games where the writer was brought in halfway through production and alot of the levels were already built. That's just setting yourself up for a narrative fizzle, really.
Yeah. Back in the days studios used to trust themselves to create good narratives in games. They stuck to the core mechanics and challenges of the game, and expanded the lore and a story outward from there. Not that writers and filmmakers haven't helped but then again, in contrast with Crysis 2, Marc Laidlaw was involved with Half-life early in the process.

Its a shame that FPS and action games demonstrate the most hampering of narrative in video games single player, when in their inception they were the games that blazed trails in suggestive and uninterrupted storytelling.
 

RiseUp

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Veldt Falsetto said:
Darth Rosenberg said:
I love Rhianna Pratchett (figuratively speaking. although she is rather tasty, too), but using Infinite as an example of her craft might be stretching it. Her credit is something like 'additional writing', which in actuality could mean she just wrote a couple of lines for a vending machine or misc NPC... Agreed about Tomb Raider, as long as we're talking Lara's arc and not the pointless 'plot' which telegraphed its every juncture in skyscraper high neon.

I'd actually like to play a few of those on that list, primarily to see how she handled certain characters - Mirror's Edge and Heavenly Sword being two, even if I gather it wasn't exactly her at the height of her character narrative powers or influence.

Was she a lead writer on Thief?
Says story writer and cinematics for Thief so I'm guessing so.

You're right about Bioshock but y'know, she had a hand in it and I bet most people don't have a clue she did, I didn't.
Whatever hand she had in Bioshock, the writing is mostly Ken Levine's job. He wrote out the arc of the story, so I'd guess the issues Rhianna had writing Thief stem from the fact that she's usually an assisting writer who didn't have the experience to take on a lead writing role.
 

Leather_Raven

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I read these forums, I sometimes even post. You've all been fairly polite, if curious, about the topic of... well, me. I appreciate that, so I thought I'd respond to a few things said in this thread about my career and the choices I've made. Please excuse any typos, this seems to have turned into a typing at 3am scenario.

Okay, here we go...

As some of you are aware (and it's great to read that the weird and occasionally messy world of a games writer is gaining a bit more understanding) I don't originate these stories. It's not a case of me rocking up to a developer and going 'Hey I have this GREAT idea!' It's more a case of a developer coming to me and saying 'Hey! We have this great idea/game design/set of levels/characters etc. But we need some story please.' This makes it quite a different ballgame from most other entertainment mediums.

My role is to take what they have, flesh it out and get it working in the game within the boundaries set by the developer - be they time, budget, design etc. What you get to work with can vary depending on how far development has already progressed. There's likely to be some spine of a story, some levels designed (in Mirror's Edge's case a whole game) and often a bit of character work. By and large it's at least what the developer will have needed for their pitch doc/proof of concept/green light etc. and enough to get folks actually building stuff.

The reason I (and other games writers) talk about the need to get writers/narrative designers in earlier is it would make our role a whole lot easier and more satisfying if *we* helped originate this kind of stuff. When you work as a hired-gun, rather than an imbedded writer, that hardly ever happens. Sometimes this is because the devs want to do it themselves, or they don't know where to find a games writer. Perhaps they're just not ready yet, or not used to thinking about story and writer at the same time. Often there can be an assumption that the 'word bits' are easy, cheap and that can easily be slipped in somewhere down the line. These attitudes unfortunately bypasses the skills that writers/narrative designers have for character and world building. Something that, you'd think, could be pretty useful to the development process.

It's getting a little better. People actually know games writers exist now and they're starting to use them more frequently. Although it's by no means industry standard. However, *how* they use them is still an ongoing battle of square pegs, round holes, miscommunication, mismanagement and occasional bouts of heartbreak. It really is a painful adolescence but hopefully we'll emerge on the other side as fully functioning grownups. Probably.

As for the titles I've worked on - Some have been in a lead writer capacity, such as Tomb Raider or the Overlord games, although I was the only writer on the latter. I didn't just write the ladies, BTW, I wrote the men too. Because it would be, frankly, a little weird not to. Yup, you get the ladies AND the men with me. I'm a full service provider.

Anyway...others jobs have been about supporting another writer (Prince of Persia.) A few have been the efforts of writing teams, such as Thief, Risen and Bioshock Infinite.

I took on these, as someone pointed out very varied titles, for an equally varied number of reasons - I fell in love with what the developer was trying to achieve, I was a fan of the franchise, I was helping a mate out, because I was asked and had the time, I was recommended by a former colleague, and, in one instance, because of a shared history involving a gay, escapologist tortoise. No job ever came about the same way.

Admittedly, not all have turned out the way I'd have liked. This has been for a variety of reasons, not least of which has probably been a little naivety on my part about the realities of what could be achieved within the aforementioned boundaries. We're all learning here.

Some I'm really proud to have been part of. Tomb Raider, for example (particularly Lara's journey which was my main focus) and the Overlord games, which were as fun to make as they are to play. Sometimes things go your way, sometimes they don't.

Creatively, on a broader scale, I still feel like I've only just got started; that I have many more stories to tell and become part of, both in games, and other mediums (a lot of my work is in comics and screenplays these days.)

As for most prominent female developer, I don't think I am. I've just been at this gig for a long time (16 years including my time on PC Zone) and I've worked on some high profile games. I try to use that position, where possible, to stand up for issues I care about within the industry that I love. I have a burning need to at least try to make things better.

This post isn't to justify anything in particular. If you don't like the games I've worked on, then no post of mine is going to make you change your mind. However, there's a lot of misinformation out there about what games writers in general do, so I thought I should sprinkle a little clarity into the mix. Hope it's of interest to those who care about such things.

Thanks for reading.

Rhi
 

gargantual

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Leather_Raven said:
I read these forums, I sometimes even post. You've all been fairly polite, if curious, about the topic of... well, me. I appreciate that, so I thought I'd respond to a few things said in this thread about my career and the choices I've made. Please excuse any typos, this seems to have turned into a typing at 3am scenario.

Okay, here we go...

As some of you are aware (and it's great to read that the weird and occasionally messy world of a games writer is gaining a bit more understanding) I don't originate these stories. It's not a case of me rocking up to a developer and going 'Hey I have this GREAT idea!' It's more a case of a developer coming to me and saying 'Hey! We have this great idea/game design/set of levels/characters etc. But we need some story please.' This makes it quite a different ballgame from most other entertainment mediums.

My role is to take what they have, flesh it out and get it working in the game within the boundaries set by the developer - be they time, budget, design etc. What you get to work with can vary depending on how far development has already progressed. There's likely to be some spine of a story, some levels designed (in Mirror's Edge's case a whole game) and often a bit of character work. By and large it's at least what the developer will have needed for their pitch doc/proof of concept/green light etc. and enough to get folks actually building stuff.

The reason I (and other games writers) talk about the need to get writers/narrative designers in earlier is it would make our role a whole lot easier and more satisfying if *we* helped originate this kind of stuff. When you work as a hired-gun, rather than an imbedded writer, that hardly ever happens. Sometimes this is because the devs want to do it themselves, or they don't know where to find a games writer. Perhaps they're just not ready yet, or not used to thinking about story and writer at the same time. Often there can be an assumption that the 'word bits' are easy, cheap and that can easily be slipped in somewhere down the line. These attitudes unfortunately bypasses the skills that writers/narrative designers have for character and world building. Something that, you'd think, could be pretty useful to the development process.

It's getting a little better. People actually know games writers exist now and they're starting to use them more frequently. Although it's by no means industry standard. However, *how* they use them is still an ongoing battle of square pegs, round holes, miscommunication, mismanagement and occasional bouts of heartbreak. It really is a painful adolescence but hopefully we'll emerge on the other side as fully functioning grownups. Probably.

As for the titles I've worked on - Some have been in a lead writer capacity, such as Tomb Raider or the Overlord games, although I was the only writer on the latter. I didn't just write the ladies, BTW, I wrote the men too. Because it would be, frankly, a little weird not to. Yup, you get the ladies AND the men with me. I'm a full service provider.

Anyway...others jobs have been about supporting another writer (Prince of Persia.) A few have been the efforts of writing teams, such as Thief, Risen and Bioshock Infinite.

I took on these, as someone pointed out very varied titles, for an equally varied number of reasons - I fell in love with what the developer was trying to achieve, I was a fan of the franchise, I was helping a mate out, because I was asked and had the time, I was recommended by a former colleague, and, in one instance, because of a shared history involving a gay, escapologist tortoise. No job ever came about the same way.

Admittedly, not all have turned out the way I'd have liked. This has been for a variety of reasons, not least of which has probably been a little naivety on my part about the realities of what could be achieved within the aforementioned boundaries. We're all learning here.

Some I'm really proud to have been part of. Tomb Raider, for example (particularly Lara's journey which was my main focus) and the Overlord games, which were as fun to make as they are to play. Sometimes things go your way, sometimes they don't.

Creatively, on a broader scale, I still feel like I've only just got started; that I have many more stories to tell and become part of, both in games, and other mediums (a lot of my work is in comics and screenplays these days.)

As for most prominent female developer, I don't think I am. I've just been at this gig for a long time (16 years including my time on PC Zone) and I've worked on some high profile games. I try to use that position, where possible, to stand up for issues I care about within the industry that I love. I have a burning need to at least try to make things better.

This post isn't to justify anything in particular. If you don't like the games I've worked on, then no post of mine is going to make you change your mind. However, there's a lot of misinformation out there about what games writers in general do, so I thought I should sprinkle a little clarity into the mix. Hope it's of interest to those who care about such things.

Thanks for reading.

Rhi
Nice of you to drop by, and drop some personal tidbits on the inside of game writing. Maybe there are some things that all of us and you included can infer about how well other game's stories gelled from previous playing experiences. I hope you get more opportunities to flesh out more narrative adventures from their inception in the future.
 

faefrost

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Leather_Raven said:
and, in one instance, because of a shared history involving a gay, escapologist tortoise.

Rhi
I'm thinking there is quite an interesting story there... or maybe better yet a game?

And thank you for dropping by and telling us a bit about how you do what you do. We really are all fans of not just the games themselves but also the process and how they come to be.
 

Tahaneira

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The Madman said:
Alls I know for sure is that she desperately needs to convince her father to get into games again. Back in ye olden days there were a sparse few Diskworld games, but that was ages ago. AGES! We need an open world Discworld rpg asap. I'm thinking get Double Fine to do it ala Brutal Legend.

This needs to happen.
Unfortunately, he's so far along in his Alzheimer's he's pretty much out of the game. His latest books have been... off. To my mind, his mind has already died; it's just his body that's still walking around. T_T

Don't get me wrong. I respect the man greatly, and love his work dearly. But he's gone now.

BrotherRool said:
I don't think Ms Pratchett has a lot of clout.
I'm going to go ahead and agree wholeheartedly with this. She's got a bunch of projects under her belt, but most studios that make writing a priority tend to have dedicated writers. Anyone who brings her in is probably going to either regard story and dialogue as back-burner priority, or has her playing second fiddle to someone else. Like the executives.
 

The Madman

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Tahaneira said:
Unfortunately, he's so far along in his Alzheimer's he's pretty much out of the game. His latest books have been... off. To my mind, his mind has already died; it's just his body that's still walking around. T_T

Don't get me wrong. I respect the man greatly, and love his work dearly. But he's gone now.
Untrue actually, he's not doing that bad these days. Link Almost all his problems thus far have mercifully been physical as opposed to mental, in fact Sir. Pratchett recently signed a new deal for another ten books in upcoming years.

Plus I quite liked Snuff which is a recent book of his. Not as good as Thud or Guards! Guards! maybe, but still a damned fine Sam Vimes tale.
 

Elfgore

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The only games I have played that have been written by her is the Overlord series. Those were amazing pieces of writing. Great humour, great story, and great everything. But judging by her track record she appears to enjoy complex plots and storylines. I've heard Thief has a weird, magic-based storyline. Bioshock has... the ending that we all know, and Overlord has a decent amount of plot-twists.