Why Skyrim sucked for me and how i could have enjoyed it more.

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SerithVC

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Ultratwinkie said:
Vern5 said:
Basically, you want Skyrim but with Morrowind's approach to world design. Unfortunately, that game could never be. Skyrim was developed at a AAA level so Bethesda would need to cater to all types of gamers in order to get back the money they spent on development and that means appealing to the very lowest of brows in gaming. Skyrim was designed to look pretty and to be functionally simple; a fantasy adventure that could appeal to TES fans and dudebros at the same time.

What you want is "Skyrim For Smart People" and this could never be.
Witcher 3.
SerithVC said:
Skyrim. World without wonder. World where dragons are not so much a threat, but an annoyance. A world that is visually dull. A world that is barren and bleak.

So I have finally decided to give Skyrim another chance. On my first playthough, I beat Alduin and put the Stormcloaks back into power. After all was settled and I was waiting for a continuation of the plot where I would get to fight against the Nazi-Elves that wanted the Stormcloaks and the Imperials at war with each other, I started doing quests to see if any of them were entertaining. Some were, most were not. Eventually I got annoyed with they world, mostly because after all the things I had done in skyrim, i had finally committed the move unforgivable of crimes. . . I killed a chicken. The people of Riverwood became feral and just began attacking me unrelentingly until i had no choice but to kill them all. After that little fiasco I had such a huge bounty on my head because i defended myself that i had near constant bounty hunters and guards attacking me, which led me to a killing spree so intense that the game no longer spawned npcs. No more random people coming up to me to kill me, no more monsters or animals, no more dragons, everything that wasn't immortal was dead.

This time, I'm trying to find good things about Skyrim as i play it, but am only disappointed by the lack there of. Graphically the game is still great, but visually it's so bland. There are a few areas with some good visuals, but they are few and far between. Even without me having killed everything, the world is surprisingly empty. The emptiness is more shocking considering i have both DLC as well as the main game. The game treats us like were stupid. It gives a 'puzzle' but it also gives us the answer by almost shoving it in our faces. It doesn't really let us play our own character without penalty, especially when it comes to wearing armor since they are severely unbalanced. Hunting and Crafting are jokes. Crafting has no options to it which is disappointing when armors have different variation of appearance yet you can only make one of of those and hunting is just lame since the animals can detect you even if you have maxed out sneak and light armor that's made for sneaking. So far, the most enjoyable part of this game on this playthrough has been the time i was out in the wilderness, found a cabin, and decided to go in and see what was there. I was at first disappointed that it was just a single bandit and some rather crappy items, but then it happened. The holy grail of adventure game items.

As I was on my way out, and just about to open the door, I saw it. It was just sitting there, a note pinned to the wall by a knife. I reached out and took it, reading it twice since I hadn't seen the shelf it mentioned with the items behind it. It took the note and went back down the stairs to the basement and looked around, just about missing the switch beside on of the shelves. Now I was excited. I pushed the button and took out my wooden sword. I began sneaking down the passage and actually enjoyed exploring the place. This is what skyrim needs more of. Not lame dragons. Not this very pin point quest marker, but something that gives directions and you have to explore and sometimes even research and listen to people and take notes to find. Something like skyrim or oblivion if they were merged with a game like MYST. Not go kill the bandits in this cave that you've never heard of until now but know the exact pinpoint location of.
Its not on PC is it? Because mods fix all that. Without mods, skyrim really is bland. 99% of all its praise is from PC.

I mean, this:
http://imgur.com/a/WISv0#0

and combine it with requiem and you get a real RPG. Mod in more armor and frostfall and you get something really hardcore. Also the dragon combat overhaul.

bandits become scary, draugr become a herculean task, vampires become gods, werewolves become the stuff of nightmares. and dragons become the most scary thing ever.

skyrim is easy mode. really easy mode. Exploration with no difficulty isn't exploration. Because no matter whats behind the door, you can handle.

it takes away all meaning.
The thing is that a game, especially one with such a huge budget, should be able to stand on it's own merits and not rely on mods. If a game needs mods to make it good, then the game has failed. What your suggesting is essentially completely redoing most of skyrim's core which means you're no longer actually playing skyrim.
 

SajuukKhar

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SerithVC said:
The thing is that a game, especially one with such a huge budget, should be able to stand on it's own merits and not rely on mods. If a game needs mods to make it good, then the game has failed. What your suggesting is essentially completely redoing most of skyrim's core which means you're no longer actually playing skyrim.
The TES game have always been built on the idea that people are going to mod half of it anyways.

Todd Howard himself said that PC is best way to play the game because you can mod whatever you want.
 

Sanderpower

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Skyrim is a great game. Even without mods it's a great ride for a playthrough or two. After a few playthroughs it DOES get old (which to be fair, at that point you've already invested 100+ hours of gameplay). That's where mods come in.

You see modding isn't for people who are newcomers to Skyrim. It's for people who have already played through the game and want something more.


Also, Requiem is a pretty damn good mod. I do have a few complaints about it, but overall it's really good especially for us veteran Skyrim players who have invested 1000+ hours into the game. It will NOT be everybody's cup of tea of course.
 

SerithVC

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SajuukKhar said:
Ultratwinkie said:
and combine it with requiem
Nice save game bloat there, your better off using SPERG.

SerithVC said:
-World where dragons are not so much a threat, but an annoyance.
-I was waiting for a continuation of the plot where I would get to fight against the Nazi-Elves that wanted the Stormcloaks and the Imperials at war with each other,
-The people of Riverwood became feral and just began attacking me unrelentingly until i had no choice but to kill them all.
-which led me to a killing spree so intense that the game no longer spawned npcs. No more random people coming up to me to kill me, no more monsters or animals, no more dragons, everything that wasn't immortal was dead.
-It gives a 'puzzle' but it also gives us the answer by almost shoving it in our faces. It doesn't really let us play our own character without penalty, especially when it comes to wearing armor since they are severely unbalanced. Hunting and Crafting are jokes.
-but something that gives directions and you have to explore and sometimes even research and listen to people and take notes to find.
-Dragon were never a major threat, they are a species of animal, much like all others, except tied to the gods via their connection to akatosh.
-the thalmor were never a major part of the main plot or skyrim, or the cause behind anything.
-Yield, put away your sword, if you have a bounty under 100, which killing a chicken gives, putting away your sword will cause all enemies to stop attacking and guard will let you pay your fine.
-Its literally impossible for the game to stop spawning generic NPCs unless you use mods.
-The puzzles are MADE to be easym if you had read the in-game books you would have known those puzzles were meant to keep the draugr in, not people out.
-Why would you need to take notes when you literally have a map that you can pull out and people can just point to a location and say "I know the bandits who took me stuff are here"
The fact that a DRAGON is not a threat is a bad thing. It's a fire/ice breathing flying monster that is big enough to swallow a person whole and if it is more of a minor annoyance than a legitimate threat then it kinda fails.

The thalmor were behind the shit that happened in skyrim. http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Thalmor_(Skyrim)

The people of Riverwood are just fucking insane since in my current playthrough i had to run around and dodge their attacks until i found a guard and pay off my 10 gold bounty for accidentally stealing.

My original playthrough on the PS3 stopped spawning enemies since all the towns were empty except for immortal npcs, and i could walk from one end of skyrim to the other and not see a single living thing.

If the puzzles were made to be easy because the stuff was to keep the Draugr in, then it was a stupid idea because what would prevent someone from releasing them?

The point of taking notes and listening to characters and such is to become invested in what your doing. Having it feel like your actually exploring a world and not just playing WoW. And yes i did just compare Skyrim to WoW.
 

Sanderpower

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SerithVC said:
SajuukKhar said:
Ultratwinkie said:
and combine it with requiem
Nice save game bloat there, your better off using SPERG.

SerithVC said:
-World where dragons are not so much a threat, but an annoyance.
-I was waiting for a continuation of the plot where I would get to fight against the Nazi-Elves that wanted the Stormcloaks and the Imperials at war with each other,
-The people of Riverwood became feral and just began attacking me unrelentingly until i had no choice but to kill them all.
-which led me to a killing spree so intense that the game no longer spawned npcs. No more random people coming up to me to kill me, no more monsters or animals, no more dragons, everything that wasn't immortal was dead.
-It gives a 'puzzle' but it also gives us the answer by almost shoving it in our faces. It doesn't really let us play our own character without penalty, especially when it comes to wearing armor since they are severely unbalanced. Hunting and Crafting are jokes.
-but something that gives directions and you have to explore and sometimes even research and listen to people and take notes to find.
-Dragon were never a major threat, they are a species of animal, much like all others, except tied to the gods via their connection to akatosh.
-the thalmor were never a major part of the main plot or skyrim, or the cause behind anything.
-Yield, put away your sword, if you have a bounty under 100, which killing a chicken gives, putting away your sword will cause all enemies to stop attacking and guard will let you pay your fine.
-Its literally impossible for the game to stop spawning generic NPCs unless you use mods.
-The puzzles are MADE to be easym if you had read the in-game books you would have known those puzzles were meant to keep the draugr in, not people out.
-Why would you need to take notes when you literally have a map that you can pull out and people can just point to a location and say "I know the bandits who took me stuff are here"
The fact that a DRAGON is not a threat is a bad thing. It's a fire/ice breathing flying monster that is big enough to swallow a person whole and if it is more of a minor annoyance than a legitimate threat then it kinda fails.

The thalmor were behind the shit that happened in skyrim. http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Thalmor_(Skyrim)

The people of Riverwood are just fucking insane since in my current playthrough i had to run around and dodge their attacks until i found a guard and pay off my 10 gold bounty for accidentally stealing.

My original playthrough on the PS3 stopped spawning enemies since all the towns were empty except for immortal npcs, and i could walk from one end of skyrim to the other and not see a single living thing.

If the puzzles were made to be easy because the stuff was to keep the Draugr in, then it was a stupid idea because what would prevent someone from releasing them?

The point of taking notes and listening to characters and such is to become invested in what your doing. Having it feel like your actually exploring a world and not just playing WoW. And yes i did just compare Skyrim to WoW.
Well to be honest nobody is sure why the puzzles are that easy. There is a theory from archaeologist journal that they are made that easy to keep the Draugr in. But in typical TES fashion, that's just a theory from a single archaeologist. It could just be as plausible that the ancient Nords just really sucked at making puzzles.

Also...the people in Riverwood killed me too lol. When I first started the game I saw a chicken right in front of me. Me being my typical psychopathic self, decided to kill the living creature. Everybody completely lost their shit and started rushing at me with daggers and maces.

If you want to hear something funnier, did you know that those animals can report your crimes? That's right, if you try to break into a house and a chicken or a horse happen to be looking at you, they'll report your ass to the guards.


I do agree that Dragons are waaaay to easy in the vanilla game. But once again, mods fix that. If you aren't playing a TES game on PC, you're missing out big time.
 

SajuukKhar

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SerithVC said:
The fact that a DRAGON is not a threat is a bad thing. It's a fire/ice breathing flying monster that is big enough to swallow a person whole and if it is more of a minor annoyance than a legitimate threat then it kinda fails.

The thalmor were behind the shit that happened in skyrim. http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Thalmor_(Skyrim)

The people of Riverwood are just fucking insane since in my current playthrough i had to run around and dodge their attacks until i found a guard and pay off my 10 gold bounty for accidentally stealing.

My original playthrough on the PS3 stopped spawning enemies since all the towns were empty except for immortal npcs, and i could walk from one end of skyrim to the other and not see a single living thing.

If the puzzles were made to be easy because the stuff was to keep the Draugr in, then it was a stupid idea because what would prevent someone from releasing them?

The point of taking notes and listening to characters and such is to become invested in what your doing. Having it feel like your actually exploring a world and not just playing WoW. And yes i did just compare Skyrim to WoW.
-Why is a game not following every other games cliche version of dragons a bad thing? they are animals, long living animals, but animals none the less.

-The Thalmor are responsible for the great war. The Skyrim civil war was cause by Ulfric stormcloak, and the Dragons returning was caused by Alduin being cast out of time 5000 years ago. Now, Ulfric got prissy because of the treaty signed at the end of the great war, but The Thalmor themselves didn't cause Ulfric to start the Skyrim rebellion, or bring the dragons back.

Also, never use the elder scrolls wiki, its VASTLY out of date and full of uncited, and fan made, content. use UESP.

-NPC dont attack you for stealing something, they walk up to you and take it back from your inventory.

-Named NPCs never respawn. I thought you were talking about generic NPCs such as bandits.

-No, because most people aren't stupid enough to go into a crypt full of Draugr and release them, since they would likely get killed.

-How is taking notes when you logically shouldn't be doing so making you more interested in what they are doing? I guess it can get you more involved via having you go though many unnecessary steps, but that's a rather annoying type of involved. I would prefer isntead you get involved because the things they ask you to do are realistic things people need done that you can relate to.
 

BlumiereBleck

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SerithVC said:
So I have finally decided to give Skyrim another chance. On my first playthough, I beat Alduin and put the Stormcloaks back into power.
Stormcloaks were never in power to begin with, they're rebels.
 

SerithVC

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SajuukKhar said:
-Why is a game not following every other games cliche version of dragons a bad thing? they are animals, long living animals, but animals none the less.

-The Thalmor are responsible for the great war. The Skyrim civil war was cause by Ulfric stormcloak, and the Dragons returning was caused by Alduin being cast out of time 5000 years ago. Now, Ulfric got prissy because of the treaty signed at the end of the great war, but The Thalmor themselves didn't cause Ulfric to start the Skyrim rebellion, or bring the dragons back.

Also, never use the elder scrolls wiki, its VASTLY out of date and full of uncited, and fan made, content. use UESP.

-NPC dont attack you for stealing something, they walk up to you and take it back from your inventory.

-Named NPCs never respawn. I thought you were talking about generic NPCs such as bandits.

-No, because most people aren't stupid enough to go into a crypt full of Draugr and release them, since they would likely get killed.

-How is taking notes when you logically shouldn't be doing so making you more interested in what they are doing? I guess it can get you more involved via having you go though many unnecessary steps, but that's a rather annoying type of involved. I would prefer isntead you get involved because the things they ask you to do are realistic things people need done that you can relate to.
They are smart enough to talk. They are huge and breathe fire/ice. Their scales make some of the best armors in the game. They are able to eat people. Yet they are just an annoyance instead of a threat. THAT is the problem. They are not just some dumb animal in the game.

In the game, the Thalmor are stated to be involved in the civil war. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Thalmor_Dossier:_Ulfric_Stormcloak They are using him to attack the Imperials while urging the Imperials to fight. It's found out in game that they have people in the Imperial ranks.

Have you ever had the people in riverwood go after you? They are legit psycho.

"Oh hey, i feel like unleashing these undead on this town/fort/whatever. Time to solve this really simple puzzle and then sit back and watch."

There is a difference between pointing at an area on a map and having a pinpoint location of where that one specific opening is in a cliff/plain/mountain/hill/swamp/forest. What i'm suggesting is them actually describing the general area where they are sending you. Something like "..in Redoran's Retreat. It's west of Whiterun and north of Fort Greymoor. Look for a cave with a wooden door among some boulders." That gives you a direction, some landmarks, and an idea of what to look at. What the game gives is an innkeeper giving you a paper that tells you the name of a location and then you immediately know the exact pinpoint where this location is.
 

SajuukKhar

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SerithVC said:
-And yet, as has been shown in two times in lore, the Dragons were easily hunted down by completely normal mortals, both in the dragon war, and by the Akaviri who formed the blades.

-Read the Dossier, no, actually READ IT
>Status: Asset (uncooperative)
>the asset should be considered dormant
the thalmor didn't Ulfric into starting the war they are only giving him indirect aid to keep it going. being responsible for perpetuating it =/= being responsible for the war itself.

-No, because I dont have AI changing mods that cause them to do so.

-Except to solve the puzzle you have to be in the tomb, which means right next to the Draugr, so you would be the first dead when they come out. Also, Draugr dont normally leave their tombs, they are bound to stay there by the dragon priests to serve them by giving up what little of their life energy remains. so even if you did free them, them leaving is still a very small chance.

-No, the game has the innkeeper point out the location on your map, which is why it gets marked down. They just dont have an animation of you pulling out a map and the NPC directly pointing on it every single time because they would require taking control away from the player and get annoying after the third time. Also, all those directions are, again, illogical and unlikely to be given when you have a map, and thus, dont need such specific directions becuase they can just mark the location on your map.
 

SerithVC

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SajuukKhar said:
SerithVC said:
-And yet, as has been shown in two times in lore, the Dragons were easily hunted down by completely normal mortals, both in the dragon war, and by the Akaviri who formed the blades.

-Read the Dossier, no, actually READ IT
>Status: Asset (uncooperative)
>the asset should be considered dormant
the thalmor didn't Ulfric into starting the war they are only giving him indirect aid to keep it going.

-No, becuase i dont have AI changing mods that cause them to do so.

-Except to solve the puzzle you have to be in the tomb, which means right next to the Draugr, so you would be the first dead when they come out. Also, Draugr dont leave their tombs, they are bound to stay there by the dragon priests to serve them by giving up what little of their life energy remains. so even if you did free them, them leaving is still a very small chance.

-No, the game has the innkeeper point out the location on your map, which is why it gets marked down. They just dont have an animation of you pulling out a map and the NPC directly pointing on it every single time because they would require taking control away from the player and get annoying after the third time. Also, all those directions are, again, illogical and unlikely to be given when you have a map, and thus, dont need such specific directions becuase they can just mark the location on your map.
So this innkeeper has pinpoint knowledge of bandit hideouts? Literally pinpoint knowledge of where these bandits are? Even more impressive is the fact that on a map he can point to the exact pinpoint location of the hideout. There is a difference between pointing at a place on a town map with streets and the like to guide you, and pointing at a place in the wilderness on a map and still having pinpoint accuracy as to where that location is. Especially if the map you see people having in the game is http://images.uesp.net/e/ef/SR-map-Skyrim.jpg.
 

SajuukKhar

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SerithVC said:
So this innkeeper has pinpoint knowledge of bandit hideouts? Literally pinpoint knowledge of where these bandits are? Even more impressive is the fact that on a map he can point to the exact pinpoint location of the hideout. There is a difference between pointing at a place on a town map with streets and the like to guide you, and pointing at a place in the wilderness on a map and still having pinpoint accuracy as to where that location is. Especially if the map you see people having in the game is http://images.uesp.net/e/ef/SR-map-Skyrim.jpg.
Given that pretty much every other NPC and their grandmother states they already spent time looking into who stole their items, they should know where there base is.

Not to mention bandit camps aren't inconspicuous in the slightest, large areas of wooden pillar walls isn't exactly hidden.

This should have been made blatantly obvious via the guards, who tell you the location of many bandit, forsworn, and giant camps.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Guard_Dialogue#Town-Specific
 

Paragon Fury

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What made the original Skyrim boring for me was that it wasn't literally impossible to fail. As in, you cannot possibly in any way, fail or do badly. Even death is a minor setback. You don't even need to think about your build, because everything is broken (ESPECIALLY STEALTH. But that seems to be a pattern in Bethesda games with stealth mechanics) powerful.

Requiem made that better for me though. In fact I should probably go back because I still haven't beaten Dragonborn.
 

WhiteTigerShiro

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SerithVC said:
The thing is that a game, especially one with such a huge budget, should be able to stand on it's own merits and not rely on mods. If a game needs mods to make it good, then the game has failed. What your suggesting is essentially completely redoing most of skyrim's core which means you're no longer actually playing skyrim.
There's an old saying that you can't please everyone. No amount of money spent on development can provide a game that everyone will be happy with, because simply including something that one group wants is going to piss-off another group. Mods allow the game to come as close as possible to making everyone happy because they can just install the mods they want and ignore the ones they don't. That and, as already stated, it's not a matter of the game needs mods to be good, but more that people are going to mod it anyway.
 

SajuukKhar

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Paragon Fury said:
As in, you cannot possibly in any way, fail or do badly.
You can fail plenty of quests and misc objectives in skyrim, mostly by killing the quest giver NPC.

just to name some off the top of my head
-The Bards College item retrieval quests
-Any TG radiant quest
-Dagon's, Molag Bal's, and Namira's, Daedric quests.
 

WhiteTigerShiro

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SajuukKhar said:
Paragon Fury said:
As in, you cannot possibly in any way, fail or do badly.
You can fail plenty of quests and misc objectives in skyrim, mostly by killing the quest giver NPC.
I'm pretty sure he means on the quests themselves. As-in once you get a quest the only option is to go and do it. You can't accidentally wait too long to it, or do it in a way that fails the quest. You can only do the quest or not do the quest, and not doing the quest just leaves it in your quest log to potentially do later.
 

Paragon Fury

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SajuukKhar said:
Paragon Fury said:
As in, you cannot possibly in any way, fail or do badly.
You can fail plenty of quests and misc objectives in skyrim, mostly by killing the quest giver NPC.

just to name some off the top of my head
-The Bards College item retrieval quests
-Any TG radiant quest
-Dagon's, Molag Bal's, and Namira's, Daedric quests.
Can you fail anything that matters though?

And many of the things you CAN fail can be worked around or ignored.
 

RealRT

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Vern5 said:
SajuukKhar said:
Vern5 said:
Basically, you want Skyrim but with Morrowind's approach to world design.
Have you actually played Morrowind? over 50% of the map was barren ashlands with nothing in it.
I've been playing and replaying Morrowind since it came out. For the record, the Ashlands isn't barren if you know what to look for. For example, the Northern coast of the Ashlands (East of the Urshilaku camp) is littered with old Dunmer Fortresses, Ashlander burial grounds, and at least two Daedric ruins. All of these areas are filled with tough enemies and amazing loot. If you had actually played Morrowind, you would be aware of these things, too.

Anyway, what I meant by world design was more about Bethesda's old methodology rather than what they actually put into their world. Morrowind didn't hold your hand when it came to quests or finding anything. In fact, Morrowind was a little abusive when it came to directions, generally forcing you to wander in order to figure out where anything is. However, to balance that out, Bethesda actually put in interesting things to stumble across. Like caves filled with minor Daedra that turned on their summoners while excavating a buried Daedric tomb filled with Ebony and Glass artifacts. Or smuggler dens that turned out to be fronts for Sixth House cultists.

My point is that Morrowind didn't hold your hand the way that Skyrim does. In Morrowind, You were forced and encouraged to discover all sorts of crazy things. Skyrim, on the other hand, is happy to point out the things you need but leaves little to discover. Whether this is good or bad is just a matter of opinion, though.
Both Morrowind and Skyrim are too extreme when it comes to directions. In Morrowind you can wander for an hour trying to find a samey ancestral tomb in an area filled to the brim with samey ancestral tombs, while Skyrim doesn't let you get lost even if you wanted to and doesn't give you enough info so you could switch the marker to a different quest so it doesn't get in your way.
 

SajuukKhar

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Paragon Fury said:
Can you fail anything that matters though?

And many of the things you CAN fail can be worked around or ignored.
Depends on what you mean by matters.

Most of the MQ's of the games various guilds are logically made as to make failures unreasonable given the situation, especially when failure almost always would mean death, and since this is a game, you can just reload anyways.

but that's just smart quest design most of the time.

RealRT said:
Both Morrowind and Skyrim are too extreme when it comes to directions. In Morrowind you can wander for an hour trying to find a samey ancestral tombs in an area filled to the brim with samey ancestral tombs, while Skyrim doesn't let you get lost even if you wanted to and doesn't give you enough info so you could switch the marker to a different quest so it doesn't get in your way.
Skyrim was actually pretty smart is how it handled radiant quest locations.

Unless its part of a guild quest, radiant quests always give a location inside the same hold as the quest giver, so you should only have to spend, at most, two minutes looking att he marked locations in the hold the quest giver is in to find the place you are looking for.

Guild quests however, like "find the runaway prisoner" for the Companions are screwed though, s are a handful of side quests like the Kyne's sacred trial side quest, but mostly you dont need map markers unless you cant spend a minute looking at the hold you are on.
 

laggyteabag

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I find that all Bethesda games tend to be lacking in the "fun" department. Bethesda games to me now are just canvases for the community to mod it into a game that can present a small degree of enjoyment because the base game is just so utterly lacking in almost every aspect; the lore is lackluster, the main story is utter garbage, so too is the Civil War storyline, and the mechanics are so easily exploited (such as stealth) which results in the game pretty much becoming easy mode whenever you enter a dungeon. For this very reason the thought of The Elder Scrolls Online or a console version of TES or Fallout just confuses me seeing how boring these games are unmodified. Having spent over 250 hours on Skyrim, most of the was spent alt + tabb'd looking through the Nexus, and spending time testing out what the community has created. It always amazed me that a AAA developer like Bethesda cannot create content as cool or interesting as someone with a little spare time and access to the SDK. If you want a more interesting RPG, or just an RPG, period (lets be honest, Skyrim is more of an open-world action game than and RPG), then I would recommend something like Dragon Age or The Witcher, the latter I have not played to a great extent but have heard great things about, but the former is one of my favorites.
 

SajuukKhar

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Laggyteabag said:
If you want a more interesting RPG, or just an RPG, period (lets be honest, Skyrim is more of an open-world action game than and RPG)
TES hasn't been marketed as an RPG since daggerfall released in 1996.

Its always been an action-adventure, with minor RPG elements, game since redguard came out in 1998.

Laggyteabag said:
the lore is lackluster
What other series features a universe that is a dream, that stole sentience from its dreamer, and that features dead gods who are schizophrenic to the point each separate personal has achieved psychical form and fight each other/itself, that also have time traveling robots with laser sword hands, Redguards who can cut atoms with magic minds swords, and gay multiple reality god-king wearing bug armor that write bibles with LITERAL magic in them?

What game has also written pausing time via opening the menu into its own lore, and has made the mod tools something that actually exists inverse?