Why Skyrim sucked for me and how i could have enjoyed it more.

[Loonyyy]

Skyrim was keeping things from me, things I could have been having fun with if Bethesda had accommodated exploration rather than just being led around by the nose by a map marker.

By the way, don't point at Skyrim's map marker system and tell me that's logical. It's expedient but it's hardly realistic. A magical compass that points towards places, objects, and people and can track them across all of Skyrim with pinpoint accuracy. We don't even have that kind of GPS accuracy in real life. Not yet, at any rate.

I had downloaded a mod to hide the UI to try and get more immersed into the game. There was a quest to talk to some dude at the skyforge, which unknown to me, was around the corner and up a few flights of steps. The quest text did not mention any directions and none of the NPCs would even talk to me to give me directions. Trying to do any type of roleplaying in Skyrim was impossible since your character magically knew where everything and everyone was. It was either use to compass on the HUD or be lost.

Pretty much, which sucks. It's weird when you think about how the compass knows more than the player at any given moment. There's no in-game validation for the psychic compass either. I've always wondered if "Quest-related Precognition" was the first sign that you might be Dragonborn.

There is a spell for that which I thought was kind of neat, but then the compass makes that pointless.

 

[SajuukKhar]

-Fallouy stuff
-This is the same basic argument that atheists use against hinduism.
-Again you lack basic understanding of english.
-You know what? here is a list of all the cliches in the entire franchise
-We know of a falmer? lets not send any educated people. Lets leave him in a dark cave to die. We have a rosetta stone that tells us the language of the falmer? Lets leave it to until the player comes along. Too bad, that orc in winterhold can translate entire falmer books into 2 english copies in a day. So the research is redundant.
-And the crossbows may exist but they suck.
-If they knew how the robots and metal worked, then they would be making them.
-The only languages we haven't "decoded" are simple languages with no written word and no survivors who can speak it.
-replaced bows immediately.
- And the Thalmor are nazis. They think they are better than everyone else, and kill people based on what religion they follow. How can you not see that?

-You are aware even Avellone said he liked Fallout 3?

-What? no really, what? Your entire atheist rant has nothing o do with anything about the lore of the series at all.

-Basic English requires the use of words that exist, if you had said ethnic magician from the start, which is a real trope, instead of your made up shaman knowledge trope, I wouldn't have said anything. Also, English, as in, the language, is a proper noun, and should be capitalized.

-And this proves nothing as I never said the series wasn't without cliches.

-This paragraph is so wrong I dont even know where to begin
1. Calcelmo, the Altmer in Markarth, outright says he is about to publish the translation of the stone.
2. The cave is very dangerous, and gets most people killed, hence why few make it to Gelebor.
3. The Orc doesn't translate the books, Calcelmo does, you know, the Altmer from Markarth studying the Falmer. The Orc gives them to Calcelmo and he translates them, hence why his name is on them

Translated from Falmer Text by Calcelmo of Markarth
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Betrayed
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Journal_of_Mirtil_Angoth
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrimiary_of_Faire_Agarwen
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Touching_the_Sky_%28book%29

-the Imperial crossbow is stronger then many basic bows

-And no, they wouldn't make them, because those machines are dangerous.

-That is entirely false, here are 7 written languages we haven't deciphered yet.
http://mentalfloss.com/article/12884/7-ancient-writing-systems-havent-been-deciphered-yet

-That is entirely false, if you actually brush up on your history bow and arrows were still used well into the crossbow age, because bows offered some advantages crossbows didn't. such as being able to shoot farther.

-Because that isn't all the Thalmor or the Nazis were about. You are literally removing all actual details from something and then trying to say that's what it is, it isnt, both the Nazis and the thalmor are FAR more complex then that.

The entire AD army was crushed but the empire surrendered to a defeated enemy anyway? Do you have any idea how bad that sounds?

Did you actually read the book on the great war? I'm thinking not

The entire AD army was crushed, however, so was the Empires. On top of that, Cyrodiil's cities were destroyed, and its trade routes no longer functional, whereas the AD had untouched lands, and working trade routes within their lands.

the Ad had a clear advantage over the Empire, in that they could rebuild an army FAR faster then the empire could, and Titus Mede surrender because, while he knew both had no soldiers right now, the AD could make a far quicker comeback and would have stomped them since the Empire's lands were destroyed.

He won the great war, but surrendered because he knew he couldn't win the second war unless he bought time to rebuild, which is why he signed the treaty.

 

[Vern5]

Skyrim was keeping things from me, things I could have been having fun with if Bethesda had accommodated exploration rather than just being led around by the nose by a map marker.

By the way, don't point at Skyrim's map marker system and tell me that's logical. It's expedient but it's hardly realistic. A magical compass that points towards places, objects, and people and can track them across all of Skyrim with pinpoint accuracy. We don't even have that kind of GPS accuracy in real life. Not yet, at any rate.

I had downloaded a mod to hide the UI to try and get more immersed into the game. There was a quest to talk to some dude at the skyforge, which unknown to me, was around the corner and up a few flights of steps. The quest text did not mention any directions and none of the NPCs would even talk to me to give me directions. Trying to do any type of roleplaying in Skyrim was impossible since your character magically knew where everything and everyone was. It was either use to compass on the HUD or be lost.

Pretty much, which sucks. It's weird when you think about how the compass knows more than the player at any given moment. There's no in-game validation for the psychic compass either. I've always wondered if "Quest-related Precognition" was the first sign that you might be Dragonborn.

There is a spell for that which I thought was kind of neat, but then the compass makes that pointless.

Clairvoyance. The Illusion spell. I always thought that was a pretty neat means of navigation. It showed you the general direction of your next objective for a limited time and could actually be explained in-game as just another spell. But, like you said, the compass just makes it completely redundant.

I sort of wish that the Clairvoyance spell was the only means of tracking and was a toggle power sort of like the wolf-sense from LoZ: Twilight Princess. Or like the Guide beacon technology from Dead Space.

 

[Alex Baas]

Skyrim. World without wonder. World where dragons are not so much a threat, but an annoyance. A world that is visually dull. A world that is barren and bleak.

So I have finally decided to give Skyrim another chance. On my first playthough, I beat Alduin and put the Stormcloaks back into power. After all was settled and I was waiting for a continuation of the plot where I would get to fight against the Nazi-Elves that wanted the Stormcloaks and the Imperials at war with each other, I started doing quests to see if any of them were entertaining. Some were, most were not. Eventually I got annoyed with they world, mostly because after all the things I had done in skyrim, i had finally committed the move unforgivable of crimes. . . I killed a chicken. The people of Riverwood became feral and just began attacking me unrelentingly until i had no choice but to kill them all. After that little fiasco I had such a huge bounty on my head because i defended myself that i had near constant bounty hunters and guards attacking me, which led me to a killing spree so intense that the game no longer spawned npcs. No more random people coming up to me to kill me, no more monsters or animals, no more dragons, everything that wasn't immortal was dead.

This time, I'm trying to find good things about Skyrim as i play it, but am only disappointed by the lack there of. Graphically the game is still great, but visually it's so bland. There are a few areas with some good visuals, but they are few and far between. Even without me having killed everything, the world is surprisingly empty. The emptiness is more shocking considering i have both DLC as well as the main game. The game treats us like were stupid. It gives a 'puzzle' but it also gives us the answer by almost shoving it in our faces. It doesn't really let us play our own character without penalty, especially when it comes to wearing armor since they are severely unbalanced. Hunting and Crafting are jokes. Crafting has no options to it which is disappointing when armors have different variation of appearance yet you can only make one of of those and hunting is just lame since the animals can detect you even if you have maxed out sneak and light armor that's made for sneaking. So far, the most enjoyable part of this game on this playthrough has been the time i was out in the wilderness, found a cabin, and decided to go in and see what was there. I was at first disappointed that it was just a single bandit and some rather crappy items, but then it happened. The holy grail of adventure game items.

As I was on my way out, and just about to open the door, I saw it. It was just sitting there, a note pinned to the wall by a knife. I reached out and took it, reading it twice since I hadn't seen the shelf it mentioned with the items behind it. It took the note and went back down the stairs to the basement and looked around, just about missing the switch beside on of the shelves. Now I was excited. I pushed the button and took out my wooden sword. I began sneaking down the passage and actually enjoyed exploring the place. This is what skyrim needs more of. Not lame dragons. Not this very pin point quest marker, but something that gives directions and you have to explore and sometimes even research and listen to people and take notes to find. Something like skyrim or oblivion if they were merged with a game like MYST. Not go kill the bandits in this cave that you've never heard of until now but know the exact pinpoint location of.

I counted only 2 issues that could not be fixed with mods.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Clairvoyance. The Illusion spell. I always thought that was a pretty neat means of navigation. It showed you the general direction of your next objective for a limited time and could actually be explained in-game as just another spell. But, like you said, the compass just makes it completely redundant.

I sort of wish that the Clairvoyance spell was the only means of tracking and was a toggle power sort of like the wolf-sense from LoZ: Twilight Princess. Or like the Guide beacon technology from Dead Space.

Why not just turn off the compass and use clairvoyance all the time then?

Same with all the complaints people have about fast traveling, you dont HAVE to use it if you dont want to, Skyrim has a carriage system, and with Dawnguards boat travel.

 

[Alex Baas]

Skyrim is a great game. Even without mods it's a great ride for a playthrough or two. After a few playthroughs it DOES get old (which to be fair, at that point you've already invested 100+ hours of gameplay). That's where mods come in.

You see modding isn't for people who are newcomers to Skyrim. It's for people who have already played through the game and want something more.


Also, Requiem is a pretty damn good mod. I do have a few complaints about it, but overall it's really good especially for us veteran Skyrim players who have invested 1000+ hours into the game. It will NOT be everybody's cup of tea of course.

I have never played vanilla Skyrim and Skyrim is my first TES game. I wouldn't have even liked Skyrim had it not been for mods

 

[Mister K]

2. Barely existing RPG elements. I want to personally tinker with my stats, damnit.
3. In TES IV I could wield 2-handed sword AND cast spells. Here I can't.
4. Overall underpowerment of certain skill trees (2-handed, destruction, etc.).
5. Your enemies lvl up with you, which renders your development a bit pointless.

I would like to point out that
-TES hasn't been advertised as an RPG since Daggerfall, its been an action-adventure game, with some RPg elements, foremost since Morrowind. If you are looking for an RPG this isn't the game for you, nor is it supposed to be.

-Magic can no longer be used with melee weapons for balancing reasons. In past TES games magic was a "secondary" skill set that only existed to buff melee fighters, in Skyrim magic is supposed to be equal to melee weapons, not beneath them. It also introduces actual choice and consequences when it comes to playstyles, since you actually have to play a mage as a mage, and an actual warrior as a warrior, instead of just getting a free pass as a quasi battlemage no matter what you pick, like in past games, thus making playstyles more diverse.

-Two handed is probably the second most overpowered physical weapon type next to a sneak dagger playthough, especially because many blocking perks effect it, meaning you can negate large parts of two handers poor blocking power, while still using the best damaging weapons in the game.
-Destrustion magic is super OP if you use the stagger perk. You can perm stagger any enemy in the game, making you literally untouchable. also the lightning storm spell is a low cost master level spell that can murder even legendary dragons in seconds.

-The way leveled lists in Skyrim work is that around 50% of enemies you fight will be weaker then the version at your level, even at level 81 you will fight the level 15 draugr 50% of the time, whereas the next highest make up about 30% of the remainder, while the highest level makes up about 20%.

You will always get to see how you leveled up, since the formally strong draugr who were at your level, when you are now level 15, are the ones you can plow through with ease now that you are level 50 or w/e.

Admittedly it could be tweaked better.

I can't say that I can disagree with your statements. I'll just say that it seems that me saying that TES is not for me in one of my previous posts is still true.

 

[SajuukKhar]

snip

-So Tim Cain, the guy who made the series, and Avellone, the guy who wrote most of the lore, both have invalid opinions about if a game fits the series lore and setting? Really, just take a step back for a moment and think about what it is you just said.

-I could literally solve every single one of Fallout 3's supposed plot holes in about 10 minutes via basic reasoning and in-game sources, but this isnt the thread for that, if you want me to, I , or you, can make a new thread about that.

-I never said everything was easy, I said things were portrayed fairly accurately. trolls and giant spiders are fairly dangerous to the common person. As for the size of the cave, you forgot to take into account that game scale =/= lore scale.

-The stone slab is written in both Falmer, and Dwemer. Its hard to translate a stone when the only languages it's written in are either outright known, in the case of the Flamer, or barely understood, in the case of the Dwemer. Calcelmo is able to do it because, as he says, he has spent many human lifetimes studying Dwemermis.

-You are wrong about the Flamer being a huge race, they actually only occupied 1/4 of Skyrim. They were an incredibly small race, even Gelebor mentions this.

-The Telvanni are some of the most master wizards on the face of the world, with centuries of magic training and practice. them being able to control Dwemer machines is a rather impressive feast most wouldn't be able to accomplish due to not living for hundreds of years.

-Its hard to "grasp" a concept about in-game mechanics, when in-game lore outright says otherwise.

-I never said all bows fell off the face of the earth. Why do you have such trouble making responses to what I actually said?

-What a person WANTS to use as their weapon does come into play, entirely. People arent going to use a weapon they dont like, and people in TES dont like to use crossbows, its called DIVERGENCE, and It happens all the time in fiction.

-If TES wasn't meant to challenge anyone at all, then why did they make up all this lore, and why do so many TES fans argue to this day about things like who was right in the civil war?

-Again, if TES games were meant for mindless fun and not story, then why do they have story at all? why do they have a series of universal metaphysics so utterly tied into every aspect of the world? Why is every major action taken in the game tied into lore that stretches back to the beginning of the universe's history?

Honestly, it seems more like you just rushed through the game, didn't pay attention to anything anyone said, didn't read any of the books, or even try to look into whats there, and are claiming that because you saw nothing, due to your own actions, that it isn't there.

 

[Sanderpower]

snip

TES is poorly written? TES has some of the best background lore I've ever seen in a video game. One of the reasons people like TES games so much IS for the great lore. Perhaps the in-game writing for the questlines may not be that great, but it's certainly not "BAD".

Also I like how you insult people by calling them "Bethesda apologists" and comparing them to "COD apologists". That shows you have a vendetta against TES and you think "just because I dislike something, it makes it bad".


Also what RPG games have better storylines that use less tropes and "cliches"? Seriously WHAT? Dungeons and Dragons? Hell no. The Witcher? Darker and Edger" doesn't necessarily mean better writing. Dragon Age? Same cliche's if not moreso then TES.

TES is both mindless fun AND deep story. But unlike other games, the deep story is in the background, not forced upon you. You don't necessarily need to get a deep understanding of the lore to understand the game, but if you do, it gives you a great perspective.

THAT is great writing. Where you don't need to have every part of the lore hammered into your head to understand what's going on. Where you can CHOOSE to learn more about the world through exploration, books, and dialogue.

 

[loc978]

Skyrim is a great game. Even without mods it's a great ride for a playthrough or two. After a few playthroughs it DOES get old (which to be fair, at that point you've already invested 100+ hours of gameplay). That's where mods come in.

You see modding isn't for people who are newcomers to Skyrim. It's for people who have already played through the game and want something more.


Also, Requiem is a pretty damn good mod. I do have a few complaints about it, but overall it's really good especially for us veteran Skyrim players who have invested 1000+ hours into the game. It will NOT be everybody's cup of tea of course.

I have never played vanilla Skyrim and Skyrim is my first TES game. I wouldn't have even liked Skyrim had it not been for mods

Indeed. The combat in vanilla Skyrim is a total snoozefest. Without Dragon Combat Overhaul, it's not too terribly difficult to kill a dragon with nothing more than the first word of Unrelenting Force and your bare fists. Same goes for bandit groups unless you get Deadly Combat and Duel: Combat Realism.

Spoiler: this is how one plays vanilla Skyrim

No need to dodge, no skill required, no magic... just beat everything to death with your fists.

 

[Vahir]

Pretty much everything

Good sir, you are correct in every fashion. These philistines and their so-called "game" are clearly inferior to such cultured and brilliant minds as our own, we who enjoy entertainment that is of much higher quality.

To the rest of you commoners: Continue playing your boorish game if you desire. I shall play Morrowind with the rest of my kind. Good day to you!

 

[Riotguards]

while everyone seems to be arguing about mods i'm going to leave mods out of the equation, just because a game supports mods does not mean the hard work of the mod makers is the work the developers poured into the game, hell the requiem mod has over 2000 hours of development time (apparently) although its hard as F***


i played skyrim a total of 2 times right now, once at the start when the game was first released, a second time with huge mod support (beutiful everything) and i'm starting again with more mods

the first time i had zero mod support

the game initially is good, you can easily spend 10 - 60 hours just playing around questing, etc, etc at your own pace but for me i literally hit a brick wall after finishing the empire war and mage guild, having found that there's really nothing fun about magic since it only had like 5 spells which were poorly managed, the mage guild being a boring side track which was nothing like oblivion and the main quest, well i forgot about that quest

second playthrough pretty much the same thing


i would say the game is pretty identical to oblivion (i only played console), although oblivion got a lot of things right for me, mainly the quests were entertaining, the thieves, dark brotherhood and mage guild were all well throughout stories while the main questline was unique and really drew me in

my most memorable quest in oblivion was the dark brotherhood quest, in which you enter a house and murder everyone inside, nobody even though to question why an Argionian walked in with gear, etc but it just watching as the people panic as the realise that everyone is dying inside the house and they don't know who it is

the oblivion gates was just a hundred times more interesting than dragons whom to me lost most of the interest as soon as you kill two of them

the dungeon, well that's just goes to oblivion as well the dungeons were all unique and had some actual sense to them unlike skyrim which just felt as if you were walking down a country road with some speed bumps in it oblivion made dungeons feel alive and not designed with you in mind, they had dead ends everywhere and traps that were just more interesting than what the nords ever came up with

not that oblivion was perfect, hell it had its fair share of problems but the game offered so much more for me then what skyrim offers

 

[Vahir]

The mage's guild questline in Oblivion was terrible. Skyrim's one was short, but interesting, I found.

 

[Riotguards]

The mage's guild questline in Oblivion was terrible. Skyrim's one was short, but interesting, I found.

really? i though it was a lot more interesting to actually to prove myself (somewhat) instead of going "can you cast this spell?"

 

[bug_of_war]

Dragons are magical creatures. They are actually daedra. this is heavily explained in the main quest, and only the dragon born can kill a dragon.

Werewolves are an extension of hircine, kinda like daedra, and the powers they get are not natural.

dwemer machinery lasted entire eras. Their alloy is beyond any metal we have ever seen before. Dwemer metallurgy is not a joke, and its not weak. Even in the books its explained that the only sure fire way to kill a robot is through frost magic.

that is retconned in the game because little timmy must have a sword. You are a god warrior, so it gets handwaved like everything else.

Spriggans are actually from kynareth, a god, the same way werewolves exist. They are basically hippie angels.

A lot of elder scrolls lore involves gods creating their perfect soldiers and putting them on tamriel. You don't notice their difficulty because you are always the gods' chosen one. You get the same magic auto-win powers that other blessed beings get.

Wait...so it's okay for non protagonists that are either made by gods or have been gifted with powers that enhance them beyond normal creatures, but as soon as the pendulum swings both ways that's a bad thing?
The game already shows most of those creatures' strengths by having them decimate most npcs whom happen to walk past.

I mean, I understand wanting to have some difficulty, but saying that it's stupid because 2 fighters attacking each other each have an equal chance of killing one and other is just odd.