Why so many people dislike LoZ these days

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feather240

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I've only played LoZTP, but I thought it was good. The puzzles were okay, if not a bit repetitive (water temple) or annoying (forest temple). It was fun though, and I enjoyed the story parts of it a lot. It was so much funner for me to do the side missions for the story then the actual dungeons. Being able to fight on horseback and well running felt right. Using the remote to aim arrows also worked, but it was another story with the hawk eye.
 

DrDeath3191

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tellmeimaninja said:
Et3rnalLegend64 said:
tellmeimaninja said:
Et3rnalLegend64 said:
People have differing opinions, though I believe the guys who say it has no redeeming qualities whatsoever are complaining too much. The guys who hate a franchise and its company will always hate it. Neither group should really be playing in the first place if they don't like it. Like this guy.

tellmeimaninja said:
antiwheat said:
Ace of Spades said:
I had a great time with Zelda. I just hope to see no more of the cell-shaded Wind Waker style of animation.
Really? I thought Wind Waker was the most beautiful game for the Gamecube and my second favourite 3D Zelda game. Each to their own I suppose.

Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with Zelda, I just felt that Twightlight Princess didn't have much aside from the main story going for it. I loved the exploration and sidequests that were so prominant in Wind Waker, Majoras Mask, A Link to the Past and to a lesser extent OoT and Links Awakening.

People who hate Nintendo and their fans will hate the Zelda games regardless of how well made they are and whether they have actually played them or not. The result is usually comments like this:

tellmeimaninja said:
Because it is horrible. It is another great example of Nintendo's suckishness. They release them frequently, the stories suck, most run solely on stupid gimmicks, the gameplay is terrible, and overall: it isn't fun.
I must add, that Zelda & Mario are the reasons I hate Nintendo. Zelda is not well made, people like it because it is considered a classic. I, for one, hated the original, and haven't enjoyed any since.
Not all of us like it because its a classic. I couldn't care less if it was or wasn't. I was 4 when the first one came out and was way too young to understand how to play anyway, so I never bothered. When I got Ocarina bundled with my Gamecube, I had no idea how popular it was. I just genuinely liked the game. The puzzles are a nice change of pace from all the twitch reaction FPS's that are taking the market. If you don't like the game, nobody is forcing you to play it. If for some reason you are playing them, I think you're just looking for reasons to hate it.
DrDeath3191 said:
tellmeimaninja said:
Because it is horrible. It is another great example of Nintendo's suckishness. They release them frequently,
No they don't: it took 5 years from Windwaker to Twilight Princess.
the stories suck
Many would disagree, myself included.
most run solely on stupid gimmicks
Could you identify those, please? I seriously have no idea to what you are referring.
the gameplay is terrible, and overall: it isn't fun.
I can't argue with that last point, since it is your subjective opinion.

For the record, I am a huge Zelda fan.
Ah, you have opened my eyes. Clearly LoZ doesn't have a fanbase of rabid fanboys. I see now that my opinion is wrong. I will now go and pay my hard-earned money for Twilight Princess, since it isn't absolutely terrible!
We're not gushing about the game. I just took down your point of "we only like it because it's a 'classic,'" that you don't have to play because you don't like it, and you still have yet to clarify what you mean by gimmicks instead of hating the fans.

Edit: Oh, and DrDeath did say whether you like the gameplay is completely subjective, so we're not bashing you either. Contrast that to your posts of us, thank you very much.
DrDeath3191 said:
tellmeimaninja said:
Et3rnalLegend64 said:
People have differing opinions, though I believe the guys who say it has no redeeming qualities whatsoever are complaining too much. The guys who hate a franchise and its company will always hate it. Neither group should really be playing in the first place if they don't like it. Like this guy.

tellmeimaninja said:
antiwheat said:
Ace of Spades said:
I had a great time with Zelda. I just hope to see no more of the cell-shaded Wind Waker style of animation.
Really? I thought Wind Waker was the most beautiful game for the Gamecube and my second favourite 3D Zelda game. Each to their own I suppose.

Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with Zelda, I just felt that Twightlight Princess didn't have much aside from the main story going for it. I loved the exploration and sidequests that were so prominant in Wind Waker, Majoras Mask, A Link to the Past and to a lesser extent OoT and Links Awakening.

People who hate Nintendo and their fans will hate the Zelda games regardless of how well made they are and whether they have actually played them or not. The result is usually comments like this:

tellmeimaninja said:
Because it is horrible. It is another great example of Nintendo's suckishness. They release them frequently, the stories suck, most run solely on stupid gimmicks, the gameplay is terrible, and overall: it isn't fun.
I must add, that Zelda & Mario are the reasons I hate Nintendo. Zelda is not well made, people like it because it is considered a classic. I, for one, hated the original, and haven't enjoyed any since.
Not all of us like it because its a classic. I couldn't care less if it was or wasn't. I was 4 when the first one came out and was way too young to understand how to play anyway, so I never bothered. When I got Ocarina bundled with my Gamecube, I had no idea how popular it was. I just genuinely liked the game. The puzzles are a nice change of pace from all the twitch reaction FPS's that are taking the market. If you don't like the game, nobody is forcing you to play it. If for some reason you are playing them, I think you're just looking for reasons to hate it.
DrDeath3191 said:
tellmeimaninja said:
Because it is horrible. It is another great example of Nintendo's suckishness. They release them frequently,
No they don't: it took 5 years from Windwaker to Twilight Princess.
the stories suck
Many would disagree, myself included.
most run solely on stupid gimmicks
Could you identify those, please? I seriously have no idea to what you are referring.
the gameplay is terrible, and overall: it isn't fun.
I can't argue with that last point, since it is your subjective opinion.

For the record, I am a huge Zelda fan.
Ah, you have opened my eyes. Clearly LoZ doesn't have a fanbase of rabid fanboys. I see now that my opinion is wrong. I will now go and pay my hard-earned money for Twilight Princess, since it isn't absolutely terrible!
I wasn't trying to change your opinion, I want you to elaborate on it.
switching between two times, turning into the most retarded wolf in gaming, A F**KING OCARINA THAT CONTROLS THE WORLD. I find those not to be good gameplay elements, I find them to be shitty gimmicks. And people keep complimenting the puzzles. If you like Puzzles, then either get some real life puzzles or *gasp* A PUZZLE GAME. I've always found LoZ's combat to be uncomfprtable, the items to be suckish, the story to be overdramatic (since the story has never had a likable character), and the puzzles just feel tacked on. And I don't like the gameplay. I'm not sure about you, but to me GAMEPLAY is the primary factor in playing a game.
Why is it that people who see something new immediately call 'gimmick'? You might not like them, but what makes them gimmicks? I can't argue your other points, as once again they are your opinion, but I would like to know how you define the word gimmick.
 

VincentX3

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They do?

Heck I still love zelda, it's pretty much the best Original game of the older age invented.
 

feather240

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tellmeimaninja said:
switching between two times, turning into the most retarded wolf in gaming, A F**KING OCARINA THAT CONTROLS THE WORLD. I find those not to be good gameplay elements, I find them to be shitty gimmicks. And people keep complimenting the puzzles. If you like Puzzles, then either get some real life puzzles or *gasp* A PUZZLE GAME. I've always found LoZ's combat to be uncomfprtable, the items to be suckish, the story to be overdramatic (since the story has never had a likable character), and the puzzles just feel tacked on. And I don't like the gameplay. I'm not sure about you, but to me GAMEPLAY is the primary factor in playing a game.
I can't take you seriously, and I don't think anyone can. You're so predisposed to hate it and all who like it. They've calmly asked you why you thought your vague answers and when you finally decide to answer them instead of avoiding it you give them a paragraph with no effort at correct grammar and biased answers.

Yes you can say the story is over dramatic if that's how you see it, and I agree with you. As for combat I don't know what you're talking about, at least it feels good in LoZTW. Why is it uncomfortable? Finally the puzzle game jibe. That's so unbelievably stupid of an answer I don't even want to know why. You're more or less comparing Portal and Prince of Persia to a jigsaw puzzle. Do you really think people would have more fun with a broken picture? You're against wanting it, so you won't take it in.
 

ChromeAlchemist

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Because it's the cool thing to do, like hate on Halo and generalise character archetypes in Final Fantasy.

Why do you think someone made a thread saying something along the lines of "I didn't like Half Life 2"? Because he knows it's pretty much universally loved around this community (do bear in mind I'm not trying to say he disliked it because everyone else likes it, but). I don't think he would have even considered making a thread titled "I didn't like Two Worlds" because no one would care.
 

DrDeath3191

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tellmeimaninja said:
DrDeath3191 said:
-snip- Why is it that people who see something new immediately call 'gimmick'? You might not like them, but what makes them gimmicks? I can't argue your other points, as once again they are your opinion, but I would like to know how you define the word gimmick.
I love how you completely ignored my point and changed the subject. I SAY THE GAMEPLAY IS BAD. In my opinion (Opinion, gentlemen, something no amount of slobbering over will change), no amount of crappy gimmicks will change that

gim-mick [gim-ik]
-noun 1. an ingenious or novel device, scheme, or stratagem, esp. one designed to attract attention or increase appeal.

Exactly. Unfortunately most of the ones in the Zelda series have failed miserably to do anything well.

Now, would you kindly stop talking to me, because your posts are simply causing me to believe that there are actually more intelligent people on YouTube.
I didn't ignore your point: I can't argue against your opinion. I merely wanted your definition of a gimmick, which you have (certainly less than kindly) provided. However, if you use this definition of gimmick, every single videogame ever made relies almost entirely upon them. Every game needs something to differentiate itself from its competitors. Otherwise, the videogame industry would be dead in the water with nothing but copy-paste gaming affairs. If people don't try something new every once in a while, how the hell will gaming advance? You might not like what they are trying, but at least they're trying.
 

feather240

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tellmeimaninja said:
feather240 said:
tellmeimaninja said:
switching between two times, turning into the most retarded wolf in gaming, A F**KING OCARINA THAT CONTROLS THE WORLD. I find those not to be good gameplay elements, I find them to be shitty gimmicks. And people keep complimenting the puzzles. If you like Puzzles, then either get some real life puzzles or *gasp* A PUZZLE GAME. I've always found LoZ's combat to be uncomfprtable, the items to be suckish, the story to be overdramatic (since the story has never had a likable character), and the puzzles just feel tacked on. And I don't like the gameplay. I'm not sure about you, but to me GAMEPLAY is the primary factor in playing a game.
I can't take you seriously, and I don't think anyone can. You're so predisposed to hate it and all who like it. They've calmly asked you why you thought your vague answers and when you finally decide to answer them instead of avoiding it you give them a paragraph with no effort at correct grammar and biased answers.

Yes you can say the story is over dramatic if that's how you see it, and I agree with you. As for combat I don't know what you're talking about, at least it feels good in LoZTW. Why is it uncomfortable? Finally the puzzle game jibe. That's so unbelievably stupid of an answer I don't even want to know why. You're more or less comparing Portal and Prince of Persia to a jigsaw puzzle. Do you really think people would have more fun with a broken picture? You're against wanting it, so you won't take it in.
Ah, fanboys. MY OPINION is that the gameplay sucks. You may enjoy it, but I DO NOT. And are you saying that Zelda's puzzles are better than Portal's or PoP's?

Every single reply I get from you mindless fanboys causes me to lose faith in the gaming community. I DIDN'T FUCKING LIKE THE GAME. THAT'S MY GOD DAMNED OPINION. IF YOU DISAGREE, THEN DISAGREE QUIETLY. THE FACT THAT YOU FEEL THE NEED TO DEFEND IT IS PATHETIC. Do you think Miyamoto is going to come to your house and congratulate you? NO. You're just showing everyone that you can not handle the fact that someone disagrees with you.
We defend it because you don't give us reasonable answers. I mentioned Portal and Prince of Persia because I misread and though you were attacking all puzzle games, sorry. You bring a bad aura, and overuse caps. You're asking to be a troll, and just dancing around the topics. It's a forum and we're interested to know why you don't like it. You know since that's what the thread is about. It isn't asking you if you don't like it. It's asking why.
 

ChromeAlchemist

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Here's what I couldn't take seriously:
tellmeimaninja said:
And people keep complimenting the puzzles. If you like Puzzles, then either get some real life puzzles or *gasp* A PUZZLE GAME..
Because puzzles have been in adventure games for as long as one can remember. Hell name 5 great adventure games without puzzle elements...

And here's what I don't actually understand.
and the puzzles just feel tacked on.
While the rest is indeed your opinion.

I don't want insults, and if possible I don't want a "it's just my opinion". I just want to understand why you believe this. compare it to another game if you wish.

Also DrDeath, I'm assuming he means gimmick in the sense of what differentiates this product from another, for example God Of War 3 being gory as hell is a gimmick, Prince of Persia's Sands of Time is a gimmick, and Portal's Portal Gun is a gimmick.

EDITed to say "what I couldn't take seriously".
 

MiracleOfSound

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I've spent a fair amount of time around these parts and have very rarely, if ever seen anyone say hey don't like the Zelda series.

As for me:

A Link to the Past:
Awesome. One of my favorite games of all time, made me so happy when I was a kid.

Ocarina of Time:
Amazing level design, pioneering in so many ways. A classic that is mildy flawed by some overly cryptic puzzles and loose controls.

Wind Waker:
I really loved this game when I wasn't sailing, but I hate to admit I lost interest in it due to spending more time staring at a blue screen not pressing any buttons than exploring dungeons.
 

CoverYourHead

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Nipah_ said:
CoverYourHead said:
I still love it, I just want some variety! And to NOT have Gannon has the big-bad. Majora's Mask was a great example and an excellent direction for the series, but they went right back to the old ways. Darker stories, different items, and different baddies. The repetitiveness is getting annoying.

I still love the series though.
Wait... you don't like repetitiveness, but you like Majora's Mask?

That game was basically a LoZ version of Groundhog's Day.

Personally, that's the only one that I've owned/played that I never beat... And I think the only ones I don't have are the cd-i ones.

Sorry if that was a bit of a personal attack...
Funny... I never thought of it like that...

I don't find the groundhog day thing repetitive because you're not doing the same thing each cycle, just going through the same days. Even though the days repeat themselves your actions don't.

And don't worry about it, I didn't find it to be a personal attack.

EDIT: I also realize that not many people share my view with Majora's Mask which I find to be the best game in the series, but I think the change in story was a great step for the series as a whole (even if you didn't actually like the story) but then we ended right back with Ganon as the big-bad and blah-blah-blah.
 

Mr. Fister

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teisjm said:
Cause it's now on the wii, the wii is only for casual players soccer moms, therefor everything on it must be shunned and hated.
(wii owner and zelda fan btw)
You pretty much hit the nail on the head. I find that most of the hatred for the Zelda series is just another example of blind hatred for anything Nintendo.

In fact, I'd like to use this topic to dissect the major complaints against the Zelda games general, and offer a rational explanation to them.

The story is always the same! I'm tired of saving the princess and fighting Ganondorf! - I'll start off with this complaint, as I feel this one is the most unjustified of the bunch. In many aspects, the story in most Zelda games remain unchanged: Link is a regular everyday person who becomes a hero and saves his land from an evil malevolent being bent on world-domination. However, this is where the similarities end. The finer points of the stories in every Zelda game have always been different, and have always succeeded in giving each game a different feel. And besides, good storytelling is more about how you tell the story rather than what story you tell, and this is where the stories in the Zelda games truly shine. Practically every game in the series has been able to draw most people into the story and make them feel like they are a part of the narrative and not just an observer. Twilight Princess's storytelling in particular had me on the verge of tears by the time I reached the end of my second playthrough. The stories in Zelda have always thrived off concepts that are simple enough to understand, but with a rich narrative underlining it that always offer an engaging experience, and this isn't changing anytime soon (I hope).

It's never been dark or mature enough for my tastes! Link is too boring and cliched! - This is also another one of the more misguided complaints. Whenever Nintendo creates a Zelda game, no matter how realistic or dark the setting/story is, it must obey the golden rule: The Zelda games must always appeal to everyone. Every Zelda game since the original has always been safe enough for kids to play, and this is never going to change. Even Majora's Mask, which arguably has the darkest undertones of any Zelda game, was given an ESRB rating of E for Everyone (for the N64; not sure what the Virtual Console port is rated). This also applies to Link himself. From the beginning, Link was always intended to be a character that the player "becomes", which is why he never speaks, or is not dark or brooding in the slightest. Hell, that's why he was named Link to begin with: To create a link between the player and the character they control. Personally, I like Link just the way he is, and I always feel like I am Link whenever I play a Zelda game.

Nintendo just rehashes the same game over and over! Nothing ever changes! - This complaint's been around for a while, but I feel that Yahtzee's antics really exacerbated this. Yes, the core mechanics of the Zelda games haven't deviated too much from Ocarina of Time or Link to the Past. Every game has dungeons to explore, heart pieces to find, boomerangs to throw, and cracks in the walls to blow up. However, these elements are what make Zelda, well, Zelda. They're what separate the games from most other action-adventure games out there, and the fact that they continue to be just as fun now as they were 10 years ago shows how well everything works. Like Flying_Emu said earlier, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." In fact, the fact that Miyamoto says the upcoming Wii Zelda won't be too radically different from previous installments has me more reassured than concerned. Changing the core mechanics for the sake of change is never a good idea, and Nintendo would undoubtedly get panned by just about everyone if they made such a radical departure from what defines a Zelda game. I'll love the series no matter what direction it takes, but I hope Nintendo never forgets what makes Zelda such a great series to begin with.
 

tsolless

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The game is very consistently a very similiar game as the last one. I would become much more intersted in the series again if they decided to drop Ganon as the Big Bad and changed the setting a bit.
 

super_smash_jesus

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Mr. Fister said:
teisjm said:
Cause it's now on the wii, the wii is only for casual players soccer moms, therefor everything on it must be shunned and hated.
(wii owner and zelda fan btw)
You pretty much hit the nail on the head. I find that most of the hatred for the Zelda series is just another example of blind hatred for anything Nintendo.

In fact, I'd like to use this topic to dissect the major complaints against the Zelda games general, and offer a rational explanation to them.

The story is always the same! I'm tired of saving the princess and fighting Ganondorf! - I'll start off with this complaint, as I feel this one is the most unjustified of the bunch. In many aspects, the story in most Zelda games remain unchanged: Link is a regular everyday person who becomes a hero and saves his land from an evil malevolent being bent on world-domination. However, this is where the similarities end. The finer points of the stories in every Zelda game have always been different, and have always succeeded in giving each game a different feel. And besides, good storytelling is more about how you tell the story rather than what story you tell, and this is where the stories in the Zelda games truly shine. Practically every game in the series has been able to draw most people into the story and make them feel like they are a part of the narrative and not just an observer. Twilight Princess's storytelling in particular had me on the verge of tears by the time I reached the end of my second playthrough. The stories in Zelda have always thrived off concepts that are simple enough to understand, but with a rich narrative underlining it that always offer an engaging experience, and this isn't changing anytime soon (I hope).

It's never been dark or mature enough for my tastes! Link is too boring and cliched! - This is also another one of the more misguided complaints. Whenever Nintendo creates a Zelda game, no matter how realistic or dark the setting/story is, it must obey the golden rule: The Zelda games must always appeal to everyone. Every Zelda game since the original has always been safe enough for kids to play, and this is never going to change. Even Majora's Mask, which arguably has the darkest undertones of any Zelda game, was given an ESRB rating of E for Everyone (for the N64; not sure what the Virtual Console port is rated). This also applies to Link himself. From the beginning, Link was always intended to be a character that the player "becomes", which is why he never speaks, or is not dark or brooding in the slightest. Hell, that's why he was named Link to begin with: To create a link between the player and the character they control. Personally, I like Link just the way he is, and I always feel like I am Link whenever I play a Zelda game.

Nintendo just rehashes the same game over and over! Nothing ever changes! - This complaint's been around for a while, but I feel that Yahtzee's antics really exacerbated this. Yes, the core mechanics of the Zelda games haven't deviated too much from Ocarina of Time or Link to the Past. Every game has dungeons to explore, heart pieces to find, boomerangs to throw, and cracks in the walls to blow up. However, these elements are what make Zelda, well, Zelda. They're what separate the games from most other action-adventure games out there, and the fact that they continue to be just as fun now as they were 10 years ago shows how well everything works. Like Flying_Emu said earlier, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." In fact, the fact that Miyamoto says the upcoming Wii Zelda won't be too radically different from previous installments has me more reassured than concerned. Changing the core mechanics for the sake of change is never a good idea, and Nintendo would undoubtedly get panned by just about everyone if they made such a radical departure from what defines a Zelda game. I'll love the series no matter what direction it takes, but I hope Nintendo never forgets what makes Zelda such a great series to begin with.

Very well put sir!

I love the legend of zelda series, every single game. I am not sure why I prefer this series to any other in existence, I just think the whole exploring huge worlds, dungeon crawling, and generally great game play mechanics keeps me coming back.

The only thing I cannot understand is the hate for Windwaker. Even a lot of Huge zelda fans shun this off as a black sheep of the series and I cannot for the life of me figure out why. Sure the sailing gets a bit boring, but it is a pretty small potion of the game when you get the warp points. It is the most visually appealing of the series, it introduced some new elements to fighting that I hope remain in the series from now on, and it was an interesting "water world-esque" twist to the classic Hyrule storyline.
 

Pendragon9

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I think Zelda is actually one of the most loved. I can't see where the hate would come from.

Though I'll be honest. I can't get into the new Zelda. Trains and whatnot don't interest me. But a sword with a hot hilt (if you get my drift hur hur hur) might bring me back into the series. As long as they don't make it bland like Twilight Princess.