Why so much hate for Dragon Age 2?
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It's a very good game. It's just different game from the first, and has some flaws, so people overreact like crazy.
It's not as atrocious as some people claim it to be. But it was a HUUUGE fuckin' disappointment because of its predecessor.
It's funny, I thought Origins was pretty perfect aside from the combat system which I absolutely hated. Meanwhile, I liked the combat in DA2 but everything else was worse. I'll be careful with what I wish for in the future.
It's funny, I thought Origins was pretty perfect aside from the combat system which I absolutely hated. Meanwhile, I liked the combat in DA2 but everything else was worse. I'll be careful with what I wish for in the future.
I just played it for the first time ever a couple of weeks ago, after being a huge fan of the original. And it is by no means the worst game I've ever played, and so certainly not the worst game out there. It's not even a bad game, not exactly. But it certainly isn't anything more than mediocre.
The combat is okay, personally, I didn't see much difference between DA2 and DA: Origins in that regard. I may have paused and micromanaged a bit less in this one, but that's about it. The characters are also okay. I enjoyed Varric, Isabella, Aveline, and Fenris, although I found all character interactions and romances severely dumbed down compared to Origins. Halfway through the second Act I had maxed out friendships with all of my people and thereafter could simply ignore them. I also didn't mind the storyline. It wasn't epic or particularly interesting, but I liked building up Hawke from a nobody into a powerful individual. However, this is a very tenuous liking, because the story was undoubtedly disjointed and atrociously paced.
And those are the good things I have to say about the game. Beyond that there are the graphics to consider, which seem hardly improved from Origins, and if anything are possibly worse! Everything looks bland and unfocused, as if we really are listening to Varric's story and he just didn't feel like bothering with the descriptions. And speaking of the environments, they're all the same. Bioware seems to have an issue with this, as it is also found in Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2, but nowhere is it as terrible as in this game. 90% of the areas are recycled, and not just recycled but blatantly recycled. There's simply no excuse for such behavior for a giant and famous company. If lone modders can create environments for Elder Scrolls games that are more interesting and diverse than something a leading company creates, then there is a serious issue.
So all in all, it's not that DA2 is the worst game ever... It's more like it's the worst use of resources ever. If some no name company operating out of a garage created it, it would be an achievement. But Bioware has experience, money, and talent, so for them to create something like this is just plain embarrassing. That's why people feel so vehemently about it, and rightly so.
The combat is okay, personally, I didn't see much difference between DA2 and DA: Origins in that regard. I may have paused and micromanaged a bit less in this one, but that's about it. The characters are also okay. I enjoyed Varric, Isabella, Aveline, and Fenris, although I found all character interactions and romances severely dumbed down compared to Origins. Halfway through the second Act I had maxed out friendships with all of my people and thereafter could simply ignore them. I also didn't mind the storyline. It wasn't epic or particularly interesting, but I liked building up Hawke from a nobody into a powerful individual. However, this is a very tenuous liking, because the story was undoubtedly disjointed and atrociously paced.
And those are the good things I have to say about the game. Beyond that there are the graphics to consider, which seem hardly improved from Origins, and if anything are possibly worse! Everything looks bland and unfocused, as if we really are listening to Varric's story and he just didn't feel like bothering with the descriptions. And speaking of the environments, they're all the same. Bioware seems to have an issue with this, as it is also found in Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2, but nowhere is it as terrible as in this game. 90% of the areas are recycled, and not just recycled but blatantly recycled. There's simply no excuse for such behavior for a giant and famous company. If lone modders can create environments for Elder Scrolls games that are more interesting and diverse than something a leading company creates, then there is a serious issue.
So all in all, it's not that DA2 is the worst game ever... It's more like it's the worst use of resources ever. If some no name company operating out of a garage created it, it would be an achievement. But Bioware has experience, money, and talent, so for them to create something like this is just plain embarrassing. That's why people feel so vehemently about it, and rightly so.
It's just nothing compared to Origins. Conceptually it's very interesting, but in terms of execution it's fairly laughable.
I could have dealt with the recycled environments and the City of the Dead feeling if they'd worked more on choices and consequences, which seemed practically non-existent. I'm sure some will argue that's the entire point of the game and I can completely understand that, but to get behind it I'd have to have not play Dragon Age: Origins, which illustrated just how infuriating a lack of influence can be by actually spending most of the time giving it to you. (The sitch with Morrigan is what I'm referencing, by the way.)
I could have dealt with the recycled environments and the City of the Dead feeling if they'd worked more on choices and consequences, which seemed practically non-existent. I'm sure some will argue that's the entire point of the game and I can completely understand that, but to get behind it I'd have to have not play Dragon Age: Origins, which illustrated just how infuriating a lack of influence can be by actually spending most of the time giving it to you. (The sitch with Morrigan is what I'm referencing, by the way.)
Origins isn't that great of a game. But for some reason everyone loves it to death. Dragon Age 2 was a rushed sequel which switched things up and angered the nerds. CHANGE BAD! That's all you need to know for why people hate Dragon Age 2.
Honestly I found Dragon Age 2 to be more interesting then Dragon Age : Origins. Origins felt like I was picking up an encyclopedia, lots of interesting stuff explained in a boring contrived manner. Dragon Age 2 felt more like one of those crappy Fantasy books. Where a lot of the time it misses the mark, but sometimes it just does something so interesting that you sit there and go... well that was actually fun.
Both have flaws a plenty, but I tend to overlook DA2 flaws because the parts that work in DA2 are so fantastic and fun. Where as DA:O while interesting and a good experience tends to trudge through mediocrity.
The way I like to see it is that anyone that prefers Origins to DA2 hates things that are fun and interesting.
In all honesty, I like them both. But DA2 holds a special place in my heart for being the first game to create a character that I actually found interesting and endearing.
Honestly I found Dragon Age 2 to be more interesting then Dragon Age : Origins. Origins felt like I was picking up an encyclopedia, lots of interesting stuff explained in a boring contrived manner. Dragon Age 2 felt more like one of those crappy Fantasy books. Where a lot of the time it misses the mark, but sometimes it just does something so interesting that you sit there and go... well that was actually fun.
Both have flaws a plenty, but I tend to overlook DA2 flaws because the parts that work in DA2 are so fantastic and fun. Where as DA:O while interesting and a good experience tends to trudge through mediocrity.
The way I like to see it is that anyone that prefers Origins to DA2 hates things that are fun and interesting.
In all honesty, I like them both. But DA2 holds a special place in my heart for being the first game to create a character that I actually found interesting and endearing.
Because compared to its predecessor it is not very good.
Copy/paste Dungeons, wave combat rendering most tactics useless, silly redesigns, smaller world, less choice, retarded Mage plot...
I could go on.
The two things that made me finish the bloody thing were Varric and Averline, practically everything else was mediocre at best.
Copy/paste Dungeons, wave combat rendering most tactics useless, silly redesigns, smaller world, less choice, retarded Mage plot...
I could go on.
The two things that made me finish the bloody thing were Varric and Averline, practically everything else was mediocre at best.
so much was underdone from the romances to the graphics and art design. The reused environments were unforgivable. The game also ended rather suddenly and forced a segway to the next iteration without proper closure. Its pales in comparison to the excellent for its time dragons age origins....screams rushed all over
Because really there isn't anything that I'd call good about the game. It ran on my PC and didn't crash. That's about it.
Poor combat.
Poor and lazy level design.
Poor story writing.
Poor character writing.
Shit graphics.
Poor conversation options.
Poor gameplay systems.
The one good thing that I can give it is Varric, and even then he feels somewhat out of place in the game. Honestly I'm not sure what could be called good about this game to get it to even the "Mediocre game" level. Its a poor game with a slightly out of place but fun character, that fails in most every other aspect.
Poor combat.
Poor and lazy level design.
Poor story writing.
Poor character writing.
Shit graphics.
Poor conversation options.
Poor gameplay systems.
The one good thing that I can give it is Varric, and even then he feels somewhat out of place in the game. Honestly I'm not sure what could be called good about this game to get it to even the "Mediocre game" level. Its a poor game with a slightly out of place but fun character, that fails in most every other aspect.
It isn't just that change is bad. It is that change for the sake of change is bad. Change for the better is quite nice, and often accepted after a brief period of hate. But Dragon Age 2 does not offer up positive change. It changes the combat to appeal to more people, not because more people asked for it, but because they wanted to draw more people in who weren't going to buy the game in the first place.Frozengale said:
It's story is pretty decent, and the characters in both DA:O and DA2 I felt were fine, they had personalities of their own, though again in both I could have done with a bit less "This is my way of thinking, It will never change, if you don't like it don't bring me along". At times it felt more like I was doing things I wouldn't do just to please my party members, because their approval made them do better in combat.
Really when it comes down to it, it's all subjective. People will always hate things, If you want to find out if you like it or not, the only real way to tell is to play it for yourself. No one else can tell you if a game is good or bad.
I don't get it either, to be honest. While there are points about it I don't like, I find that it ties with Origins in terms of general quality.
I liked the character of Hawke (and, yes, I know that can be variable depending on your responses), Varric and, to a certain extent, Merill and Isabella. Being confined to Kirkwall wasn't a great design choice as were the dungeons being repeated a lot, but I found the combat animations absolutely amazing and just that made it more fun to play than Origins' combat.
I liked the character of Hawke (and, yes, I know that can be variable depending on your responses), Varric and, to a certain extent, Merill and Isabella. Being confined to Kirkwall wasn't a great design choice as were the dungeons being repeated a lot, but I found the combat animations absolutely amazing and just that made it more fun to play than Origins' combat.
Change for changes sake is bad, yes. But it wasn't for changes sake. It was to clean up the combat, make it flow better, and to give a better feel to the way you can build and play characters. I personally think the combat is one of the few almost flawless things in the game. It's fun, its exciting, it's strategic, it's just all around good. DA:O combat was fun at times but only on boss battles really, the rest was boring and irritating. Even the boss battles could drag on and become irritating.Cecilo said:
Everyone always says "OH BIOWARE IS JUST TRYING TO MAKE COMBAT APPEAL TO MORE PEOPLE!" And to that I say, "GOOD IDEA!" Making your game enjoyable to a lot of people is a good idea. The one thing that I have viewed in every Bioware sequel is that they try to streamline the annoying spreadsheet style management that some people have a hard on for and make it more around choices having a bigger impact. Big impact combat choices are much better then 1000x tiny choices having the same impact. As far as I've seen Bioware is getting better and better when it comes to combat. Button Mashing aside.
This is both true and blatantly false at the same time.Frozengale said:
DA2's combat was, simultaneously, amazing and absolutely horrendous. On the one hand, the core combat mechanics are really, really well done. It flows great, there's some real depth to be had with the effect-combo system, everything felt right, the controls were responsive, etc etc. I could go on all day about it.
Unfortunately... the combat encounters in DA2 were so horrifically bad that it's a struggle just to enjoy the combat mechanics. Almost every single encounter in the game boils down to: Walk into room. When you get to the center, you trigger combat. Wave after wave after wave after wave of mooks spawn from every direction and run straight at you. The only viable tactic is to stand in a clump in the middle of the room and AOE spam until everything is dead.
If they had kept DA:O's thing of a set, obvious-ahead-of-time style encounters, where you could actually take advantage of the fancy, deep combat system with clever use of tactics, it would have been fantastic. As it is, it's a painful slog with a few brief moments of fun.
The combat mechanics are one of the few things DA2 got right. Just about everything else (except Varric) is as close to objectively terrible as a piece of entertainment can be.
Yes I agree that the never ending battles got old really fast. It was obviously there to make you be more strategic about how you engage but they threw it in there so often that it became a chore. Honestly if it was just ONE reinforcement wave every 4 or 5 battles then it would have been fine, most likely.Agayek said:
Nah, it was less the actual reinforcements and more that the enemies literally don't exist until after combat starts.Frozengale said:
If you don't know what you're facing, you can't plan for it. If you can't plan for it, you can't employ strategy. If you can't employ strategy, all you can do is mindlessly push buttons and hope it doesn't get you killed.
They could have easily have had the same number of enemies to kill, even triggering in waves in most cases, as long as the player could see them coming and could devise plans for it. It would have been preferable to have less mooks and more tougher opponents, but if you really want the player to feel like a badass (which the rest of the game seems to imply they wanted), nothing's better than mook waves.
They just needed them not to spawn after combat already started.