Why SOPA was wrong, but Megaupload's takedown is right.

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Awexsome

Were it so easy
Mar 25, 2009
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**NEW LINK** http://www.scribd.com/doc/78786408/Mega-Indictment *head for around page 28 of the indictment for the real damning stuff. E-mails showing clear knowledge of pirated content they were going to and did reward their users for uploading.

Now I've seen a lot of people around making the point that if Megaupload can be taken down then, like with SOPA, youtube and google are next in line. When clearly the megaupload takedown is a good thing while SOPA was not.

One of the biggest criticisms behind SOPA was that it would give the corporations too much control and too much leeway in deciding what exactly "infringed" their copyright and then could take too much action on sites like Youtube or Google that served major purposes that were unrelated to piracy in the first place.

Enter Megaupload.

It is similar to Google and Youtube in that independent artists and regular law-abiding people can upload legitimate files to it to store how they want, but if that is your only criteria in comparing them you are simplifying it down far too much.

Megaupload was a much safer haven for piracy for one. The steps places like Youtube took to prevent copyright infringement were far more than the ones Megaupload took. The charges bring a good explanation as to why that was the case as well.

The charges brought against Megaupload aren't just for copyright infringement, but also include money laundering, conspiracy, and racketeering. The difference between Youtube and Megaupload is how they each approach the fact that people will seek to upload much copyrighted content with their services. Megaupload's damning actions are that they seeked to exploit the fact that users were uploading copyrighted material to their servers and profit off it. The charges include allegations that they were rewarding their members for uploading content that became popular and attracted a lot of traffic regardless of whether that content had any kind of copyright protection.

Youtube has its partnership program but if they rewarded someone who decided to upload a full movie just because it was popular the law would be in the right to press charges against Youtube for having Youtube themselves promoting or profiting off illegally uploaded content.

There still is the possibility that the charges are false, maybe even someone would believe that they're just a conspiracy brought up by the government instead to suppress the internet's freedom until there is no more left.

While it is impossible to prove the former wrong, something will have be done about piracy and in a case like this it's not right to condemn the government when they finally go after one of the real culprits that is liable for piracy in the first place.
 

seraphy

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Jan 2, 2011
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You think it is moral, or even legal to shut down sites before their owners have actually been sentenced on any crime?

As far as I am aware innocent until proven guilty still applies in United states.
 
Feb 9, 2011
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seraphy said:
You think it is moral, or even legal to shut down sites before their owners have actually been sentenced on any crime?

As far as I am aware innocent until proven guilty still applies in United states.
Beat me to it. They haven't proven anything and they already shut Megaupload down and all of their sister sites, hurting a lot of legitimate users in the process. It's a joke move by our legal system that, sadly, they most likely will get away with.
 

artanis_neravar

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Apr 18, 2011
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seraphy said:
You think it is moral, or even legal to shut down sites before their owners have actually been sentenced on any crime?

As far as I am aware innocent until proven guilty still applies in United states.
Just like it is legal to seize assets, freeze bank accounts, and close businesses while they are being brought up on charges.
 

ConstantErasing

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Sep 26, 2011
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I know this has already been stated but, the fact they can take down a site without sufficient concrete evidence against it is worrying. Megaupload has not been proven to be a site promoting piracy, so if it can be taken down then what is safe?
 
Jan 12, 2012
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I'm right there with you, Awexsome. The government has a job to protect copyrights, and if Megaupload was encouraging people to do so then they are breaking the law and should face punishment.

seraphy said:
You think it is moral, or even legal to shut down sites before their owners have actually been sentenced on any crime?

As far as I am aware innocent until proven guilty still applies in United states.
I believe that they are applying the same logic as when you prevent someone indicted for drug smuggling from continuing to travel freely in and out of the country- they have evidence that the site is being used for illegal activities, and if the judge decides that it isn't strong enough the site is put back up.

If they really think that a temporary shutdown severely damaged their business, then they can sue for damages from the government. But seeing as you can still access them via their IP address: http://109.236.83.66/, I don't think it would pan out.
 

jpoon

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Mar 26, 2009
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I disagree with the takedown of Megaupload completely. This site is used for a LOT of legit and legal purposes. Talk to ANYBODY on xda-developers and they'll tell you that this is bullshit.
 

Revnak_v1legacy

Fixed by "Monday"
Mar 28, 2010
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Seeing as megaupload is how my friend and I have been uploading videos we've been making, the whole event has put me in a foul mood. I do see that they have apparently done some messed up shit, but I'm still kinda pissed. Oh well.
 

senordesol

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Oct 12, 2009
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seraphy said:
You think it is moral, or even legal to shut down sites before their owners have actually been sentenced on any crime?

As far as I am aware innocent until proven guilty still applies in United states.
Sounds like Standard Operating Procedure to me. A man can still be jailed even if he hasn't been tried yet (if it has been established that he is a credible flight risk). Innocence until proven guilt is based on the premise that the accused does not have to prove that he didn't do something (rather, the prosecution must prove that he DID). An establishment can still be closed, property seized, and persons imprisoned pending the outcome of the trial.

This is why it's important to know what your rights are and are not in any legal proceeding.
 

Pebkio

The Purple Mage
Nov 9, 2009
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It is a good point that websites should not be taken down just for suspicion of a crime. But the website was NOT taken down. They still have their servers and those servers are still running. All the feds did was seize the domain name... which is like freezing the assets of suspected criminals until the investigation is finished.

You can still upload/download your videos at 109.236.83.66

Edit: Now it's back, I guess I was just getting a "No Server" message for no reason.
 
Jun 11, 2008
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Em no this is not akin to something like preventing free travel to a drug dealer or something like that this is doing exactly what is in SOPA without actually having passed SOPA. This is the exact thing we tried to prevent. If they are taken to court and found to be guilty then the site should be shut down but not before they are brought to court and tried.

I mean this is the exact thing they wanted to do in SOPA to the letter as in block DNS to suspected copyright violators.
 
Apr 28, 2008
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jpoon said:
I disagree with the takedown of Megaupload completely. This site is used for a LOT of legit and legal purposes. Talk to ANYBODY on xda-developers and they'll tell you that this is bullshit.
And, as with the Supreme Court cases of Sony vs. Universal and MGM vs. Grokster, the owners of a piece of tech can NOT be held liable if some of their users use it for copyright infringement, if it has, MANY perfectly legal uses. P2P sites and whatnot can be held liable, but only if they actively encourage copyright infringement.

To my knowledge, Megaupload did not regularly promote the service as a copyright infringing service, and many people use the site for perfectly legal things. Plus, they released a video full of stars endorsing the site and the many, perfectly legal ways it can be used.

The whole Racketeering thing though, well I suppose we'll see about that. But in terms of the copyright infringement charges, unless the accusers have some good, solid evidence, Megaupload should be fine in that regard.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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Awexsome said:
When clearly the megaupload takedown is a good thing while SOPA was not.
Clearly it wasn't for all the legal Megaupload users. Oh wait, there's that DRM argument again.

Best to start from a slightly less biased viewpoint.
 

theultimateend

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Nov 1, 2007
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Uh...

You do realize if they publish the data that there is a VERY high chance that the majority of files on Megaupload are legitimate.

I'm almost willing to bet a sandwich on that.

If we are going to start charging people for crimes when their part in the matter was profiting from access to the tools then I have a few people we should be suing:

Gun Manufacturers for all the people who kill with their weapons.
Car Manufacturers for all the people who are killed, or have their stuff stolen and driven away in their cars.
Camera Manufacturers for all the creepers who install video cameras in Bathroom etc.

And much more.

I can't think of any industry that shouldn't get getting seized and sued if this is how it works.

So far the only evidence against them that has been published has been anecdotal. "They must be primarily for piracy." Really? This completely omits teachers who use it to host all their study aids (before anyone tries to call bullshit on this this is a very common practice, check with your local college or just about any teacher), how about mod communities who use it as cheap hosting for all the files necessary to do their thing.

Got a big file you wanted to host but didn't want to pay hosting for? Host that on megaupload and folks can download from there saving you TONS of cash. Do they profit from the occasional impatient person investing for faster speeds? Sure.

"But Google and Youtube are different because they take things down." How many times was Megaupload asked to remove content? How many times did it refuse?

How unrealistic is it to expect any of these services to be able to keep up with the incoming flood of user content.

If you answered completely and ultimately unrealistic you are correct.

The Megaupload thing is bullshit, and this is coming from someone who doesn't pirate. It's the principle of the matter and watching people I like screwed by it (this goes back to the teacher thing, since this is the group I've seen hit hardest).

My thing now is seeing if dreamhost will let me host their files. I think there is a stipulation that it can't be just a hotlink page though.

Irridium said:
The whole Racketeering thing though, well I suppose we'll see about that..
I will be so shocked if this is true. So much so I'll end up with super powers:

 
Dec 14, 2009
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SirBryghtside said:
MegaUpload is based in Hong Kong.

Can you please explain to me what the FBI (they're American, by the way - not Chinese) were doing taking down that website for the entire world?
I don't want to bring up the term 'world police'...

There's probably a better explanation.

[sub]Probably...[/sub]
 

theultimateend

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Nov 1, 2007
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SirBryghtside said:
MegaUpload is based in Hong Kong.

Can you please explain to me what the FBI (they're American, by the way - not Chinese) were doing taking down that website for the entire world?
As far as I'm aware they had part of their hosting in Virginia.

This gave some short sighted folks in the US a big one and they pressed charges the moment they found out.