Well there was that one law they passed a few weeks ago about the military detaining you indefinitely for no good reason ... I could definitely see the government trying to make us believe Megaupload was suspected of terrorism ...seraphy said:
Why SOPA was wrong, but Megaupload's takedown is right.
- Thread starter Awexsome
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lol @ people thinking the majority of files on MegaUpload are legitimate.
MegaUpload was always shady as hell, and Kim Dotcom and his staff were fully aware that they were selling subscriptions to pirated content.
Normally I would be against something like the MegaUpload takedown, but if you read the indictments and staff emails and chat logs and half-assed copyright compliance measures they put in place, it becomes obvious that MegaUpload never wished to respect the rights of copyright holders.
Yes, there were legitimate users of the site, but the vast, VAST majority of it was pirated content, which Kim Dotcom and his friends were making MILLIONS of dollars from. If anything, this shows that there is zero need for SOPA when the current system can deal with offenders just like this - but of course the RIAA and MPAA would rather just control the kill switch themselves.
Here's a great article outlining the indictment and evidence against MegaUpload.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/01/why-the-feds-smashed-megaupload.ars
MegaUpload was always shady as hell, and Kim Dotcom and his staff were fully aware that they were selling subscriptions to pirated content.
Normally I would be against something like the MegaUpload takedown, but if you read the indictments and staff emails and chat logs and half-assed copyright compliance measures they put in place, it becomes obvious that MegaUpload never wished to respect the rights of copyright holders.
Yes, there were legitimate users of the site, but the vast, VAST majority of it was pirated content, which Kim Dotcom and his friends were making MILLIONS of dollars from. If anything, this shows that there is zero need for SOPA when the current system can deal with offenders just like this - but of course the RIAA and MPAA would rather just control the kill switch themselves.
Here's a great article outlining the indictment and evidence against MegaUpload.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/01/why-the-feds-smashed-megaupload.ars
I generally agree with that the Megaupload takedown was right even while SOPA was wrong. I actually had a conversation along those lines in one of my classes today.Awexsome said:
The majority of music that artists actually release for free is hosted there. I use it almost daily to get this music. Also game files for modding, program patches and all sorts of things.DismantleRepair said:
Sure, I've seen the occasional hosted movie or music file that isn't legit, but I've seen just as many been removed.
Yes, Megaupload are shady bastards who know what they are doing, but fuck they host a good service and there is PLENTY of legitimate content on it. And to speculate on the ratio of legit to not is just silly. It could be either way.
Have a read of the indictment, there's plenty of conspiracy there, A whole section titled overt acts, starting page 28 (the good stuff starts about page 32) more than proves megaupload employees were aware the service was being used to illegal ends, and even aiding it to line their own pockets.Combustion Kevin said:
You know the "industrial" level of piracy that you hear about? That's what you're looking at here. They were more than aware their servers were being used for illegal means, yet instead of removing the content, they decided to profit from it, and cut a share with the original providers.
You don't need a fedora and a Godfather to be part of organized crime.
Megaupload has been shutdown as their is reasonable suspicion that it is encouraging the illegal distribution of copyrighted material. Whether or not those arrested are found guilty of such will, of course, be decided by a jury of their peers and a later date.
Prior to the trial, the site has been shutdown - this is perfectly in line with the legal situation in every country with a common law system (not just the USA), and I'd wager is the case in civil law countries - for one thing, a legal system cannot allow the continuation of potentially illegal activity following arrest. Secondly, one cannot be allowed to profit from a crime. To use an example, once someone has been arrested for illegally manufacturing narcotics, the drug factory would not be allowed to continue producing cocaine - even if the defendant claims that that white stuff is talcum powder.
I hasten to add that the lack of judicial overview and the lack of recourse or appeal are reasons why I was against SOPA/PIPA - but I'm not going to have a go at something that is merely treating piracy as no different from any other crime - as is the case here.
Now, that said, I do not think that such takedowns are a practical way of actually combating piracy - too expensive, the returns are too few, and frankly it'll never really solve the problem, and I feel that the industry's affected could make quite a number of changes to their business models and distribution that would both seriously undermine the pirates and be profitable for the producers. However, Megaupload managed to make the great mistake of getting itself an awful lot of publicity recently - once that happens, demands grow for action to be taken, and government agencies end up looking rather ineffective if action is not taken (a bit iffy, but understandable.) I appreciate that a lot of legitimate users have been screwed over due to the recent take-down (again, I re-iterate, I do not think such tactics are really a long term effective remedy), but the blame lays squarely at Megaupload for not being seen to do enough about the alleged illegal side of it's operations, being stupid enough to bloody advertise (which is frankly, retarded, when there is little argument that there was an illegal part of their operations), and getting itself in the news.
EDIT: as an addendum to the above, the takedown of Megaupload may actually HINDER the passing of future anti-piracy bills in the future. If the current law is seen to be working, then the impetus to introduce new ones will be severely reduced
Prior to the trial, the site has been shutdown - this is perfectly in line with the legal situation in every country with a common law system (not just the USA), and I'd wager is the case in civil law countries - for one thing, a legal system cannot allow the continuation of potentially illegal activity following arrest. Secondly, one cannot be allowed to profit from a crime. To use an example, once someone has been arrested for illegally manufacturing narcotics, the drug factory would not be allowed to continue producing cocaine - even if the defendant claims that that white stuff is talcum powder.
I hasten to add that the lack of judicial overview and the lack of recourse or appeal are reasons why I was against SOPA/PIPA - but I'm not going to have a go at something that is merely treating piracy as no different from any other crime - as is the case here.
Now, that said, I do not think that such takedowns are a practical way of actually combating piracy - too expensive, the returns are too few, and frankly it'll never really solve the problem, and I feel that the industry's affected could make quite a number of changes to their business models and distribution that would both seriously undermine the pirates and be profitable for the producers. However, Megaupload managed to make the great mistake of getting itself an awful lot of publicity recently - once that happens, demands grow for action to be taken, and government agencies end up looking rather ineffective if action is not taken (a bit iffy, but understandable.) I appreciate that a lot of legitimate users have been screwed over due to the recent take-down (again, I re-iterate, I do not think such tactics are really a long term effective remedy), but the blame lays squarely at Megaupload for not being seen to do enough about the alleged illegal side of it's operations, being stupid enough to bloody advertise (which is frankly, retarded, when there is little argument that there was an illegal part of their operations), and getting itself in the news.
EDIT: as an addendum to the above, the takedown of Megaupload may actually HINDER the passing of future anti-piracy bills in the future. If the current law is seen to be working, then the impetus to introduce new ones will be severely reduced
Now... Neither Megaupload or it's owners are guilty of anything. They have some control about what's upload to there, even some sites stop using it because it was deleting their files over the piracy suspicion, but is impossible to watch over all. They are not directly responsible about their users are uploading and sharing.
Neither is Rapidshare, Filesonic, Uploaded and so on...
Neither is Rapidshare, Filesonic, Uploaded and so on...
Thanks, but I believe we were using a free account. I may have gotten the name mixed up too. I should ask my friend about it.Blablahb said:
According the the law, the group, or entity, is guilty if individuals in that group are guilty. It's how America cracks the mafia families. By arresting one member of their family on racketeering, the entire group is guilty. It's called complicit or conspiracy theory.Diablo2000 said:
It's also how NY Penal Code busts people in drug deals. It's illegal to sell, use, possess, or make narcotics in the state of New York, it is not illegal to buy. The cops WILL nail you for possession, and conspiracy to the sale of a narcotic.
So, tl;dr, if they can prove one case of illegal file transfer, the entire site, it's owners, operators, and board are all subject to the same law.
That's the thing money needs to change because they way it is now is broken. The rich have it all and just want more at the cost of the people that get the money from. Why would you want all the money in the world if you cant spend it. If they aren't gonna use it for anything good why should people give, work and or for them.Smeggs said:
I only ever encountered two sides of megavideo - one of which was streaming video and the other was downloading patches or demos...
On the streaming video side they promised unlimited use if you bought premium membership and apparently if you bought it - the limit would still be in place. They were actively making money off people watching pirated tv shows on megavideo, and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that they were doing the same with games on megaupload...
On the streaming video side they promised unlimited use if you bought premium membership and apparently if you bought it - the limit would still be in place. They were actively making money off people watching pirated tv shows on megavideo, and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that they were doing the same with games on megaupload...
It was no loophole in the system. You don't need to be the Mafia to engage in those type of criminal charges. Really this is the closest thing to imitating the Mafia in the digital world.Combustion Kevin said:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/78786408/Mega-IndictmentIn the indictment they presented clear evidence to show that even though they were well aware of illegal copyrighted material on their servers, they willfully chose to ignore it in order to keep the popularity and hits coming on the site.
If you start reading it at around page 28 it says there were e-mails going back and forth from the ones arrested speaking of payment for those who were uploading illegal, yet popular files like full copyrighted music albums or film rips.
The money-laundering, racketeering, and conspiracy to commit all these copyright infringements and profit off them are all very real. All those business practices that would normally be legitimate transform into those charges when they start using illegal content.
Evidence showing that they coordinated, and willingly took part in the illegal activity themselves.
That doesn't really matter much when they grossly ignore the terms of service (and the law for that matter) themselves.TestECull said:
They certainly did not operate, "just as a storage locker" The evidence shows how they received continuous copyright claims that they purposefully ignored and rewarded members with monetary compensation for uploading illegal content to bring traffic to their site.
Money laundering, Racketeering... it's clear cut illegal stuff. Not just hosting the pirated content but actively seeking interest in getting it and rewarding those who uploaded it to them.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/78786408/Mega-Indictment Check out around page 28 of the indictment where the real damning evidence starts showing.
The main difference to seems to be twofold:NameIsRobertPaulson said:
1) It's the government doing the shutdown, not companies. This is the OPPOSITE of SOPA, where corporations would have the power to shut websites down, and it then up to those websites to prove their innocence. We give the government power to enforce our laws, so it's expected that they enforce them when they have...
2) ...Legitimate evidence that the website knowingly supported illegal activity. Page 28-32 of the indictment http://www.scribd.com/doc/78786408/Mega-Indictment shows that MegaUpload knowingly hosted illegal content after being asked to remove it in 2010. This isn't Viacom shutting down a website because a user posted a link; this is the police stopping someone who was knowingly and repeatedly breaking the law for personal gain.
In my opinion, downloading stuff of megaupload is a victimless crime. No one get's hurt and no one should give a shit.
Wait. MegaUpload is Hongkong based. A tiny part of the servers are in Virginia. That gives the U.S full right to shut down the entire domain name, even for countries OUTSIDE of the U.S?