Why the complaints about L.A. Noire?

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EzraPound

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Of course, I should qualify--the game's been critically well-received, and has an 89 on metacritic. The fans though, in this case, seem to be another story.

. . .Because right now, much of what I'm reading--on message boards, GameFAQs (in which it only scores a 7.7 user average--low by the inflated rating standards of games)--is that the game is boring. And my question is this: have any of the people who are accusing it of being tedious actually played traditional adventure games? Or are they just comparing it to GTA IV?

Of course, by these standards--comparing L.A. Noire to say, Grim Fandango, or King's Quest (now acknowledged as some of the greatest titles ever, Fandango seemed equally old-fashioned in 1998)--the game is clearly not boring: its flexibility in the assemblage of cases guarantees this, as you can progress more or less regardless of how inept you are at sifting through environments and interrogating suspects. If anything, there's probably a case to be made for the game being too 'un-boring'--that is, that its commitment to playability interferes with a tangible sense of consequence--though I've personally found myself sufficiently motivated to exert myself in these sections, and feel letdown when I'm unable to compile evidence effectively.

Sure, the game isn't perfect--the action sections are sort of sterile (though at least they don't take up much time) the game occasionally seems too linear, and there isn't a whole lot to do aside the main storyline. But what it does well--offer a synthesis of game and film that's fairly unparalleled without entirely depriving the player of control (and Heavy Rain was emo garbage by comparison--both its QTE-based gameplay and melodramatic storyline are less gratifying than Noire, not to mention Shenmue), and modernize the adventure genre--is surely worthy of praise. Aside from which, it's the most innovative Rockstar game since, at least, San Andreas (which awed us all with a larger detailed sandbox environment than had previously existed).

In any case, it's funny to me that so many gamers deride the mainstream industry as uncreative, and yet are so willing to chastise a mainstream developer the moment they put the gun back in the holster. It seems like lately, the whole "anti-corporate" agenda that a lot of critics and gamers adopted in the beginning years of this decade (around the time people began to think of games as art)--an utterly legitimate one, I might add--has been hijacked by trolls, who heap scorn on innovative games and facile ones in equal measure. Looking over the reviews on GameFAQs, it looks as if a lot of gamers pilloried Portal 2 for its single-player--a move analogous to judging TF2 based solely on its tutorial. This isn't making me feel more confident about our collective intellection.
 

DustyDrB

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Jan 19, 2010
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Some people wanted the same old, run around and cause mayhem that every other sandbox game does (with varying degrees of success). To that, I tell those people that Saints Row 2 is cheap and still a great game. I'm very glad that Mafia II and LA Noire didn't shoehorn in that kind of gameplay.

But there are other, actually legitimate complaints about the game...

One: The ending, which comes out of nowhere and fails to do what it attempts.

Two: The game doesn't really have all that much of a Noir feel to it. The time period is right, but the mood of the game is more Dragnet than The Big Sleep. I was let down by that.

Three: Interrogations. They are both a highlight and a lowlight of the game. While I generally did well, there were times when evidence was used in questionable ways. Another thing is when you choose "Doubt" and Cole harasses the witness. Maybe that's a punishment for picking the wrong answer[footnote]I have to say, though, that I got a kick out of Cole's occasional response when you back out of a lie accusation. He looks at the camera sheepishly and says, "Sorry. Sometimes you have to shake the tree and see what falls out".[/footnote], but it just feels...wrong. It jerks me out of the game for a moment.

Four: The overarching story. Despite it's marvelous cast of great actors (I spotted at least four from one of my favorite shows, Mad Men, including our lead man in Aaron Staton), I wouldn't say LA Noire has particularly strong characters. It has little to do with the performances of the actors rather than the nature of the game. So the twists in the story failed to grip me, and sometimes were just downright out of left field. Much of the latter part of the game hinges on these twists, so that's a pretty big flaw.

Overall, I'd say its a marvelous game that succeeded where a game like Heavy Rain failed. LA Noire pulled off the whole mystery adventure while still keeping it first and foremost a game. But it does has several flaws, many of which are incredibly frustrating.
 

InsomniJack

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DustyDrB said:
Four: The overarching story. Despite it's marvelous cast of great actors (I spotted at least four from one of my favorite shows, Mad Men, including our lead man in Aaron Staton), I wouldn't say LA Noire has particularly strong characters. It has little to do with the performances of the actors rather than the nature of the game. So the twists in the story failed to grip me, and sometimes were just downright out of left field. Much of the latter part of the game hinges on these twists, so that's a pretty big flaw.
I have to agree. I like the atmosphere of the game and the characters, but the story just was not up to par as Red Dead Redemption's was. And I personally hold Brendan McNamara accountable for it, who was the only writer for L.A. Noire, while RDR and GTA IV had at least two. I feel that if someone had co-written the game with McNamara, the shortcomings of the story would have disappeared.

Like not showing Mrs. Phelps and developing her better, especially when going after the affair angle, which came totally out of nowhere. If McNamara had spent time fleshing out Phelp's home life, then it would have been more shocking to see Cole with Elsa. And maybe understandable. Instead, it just jumps out and we're expected to roll with the game without much of an explanation.

But otherwise, I like the game a lot. I hope this brings out more adventure game awareness, perhaps even a resurgence in the genre.
 

Wolfram23

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Well I made a thread on this not long ago... "LA Noires faults". Basically, they did a bad job with many story elements. Otherwise I quite like it, having a great time playing it with my girlfriend although once we got to arson desk it's got slightly less fun, I guess it feels like we aren't really accomplishing anything when the game just keeps going on no matter how good or bad we do in a case.

Also, @InsomniJack: Day of the Tentacle FTW!!! Awesome.

@DustyDrB: We laughed at that too. So funny! He just looks plain silly backing out of the lie option.
 

Netrigan

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It all comes down to if you like the investigation/interrogation aspect of the game. The driving and shooting mechanics are just serviceable. If walking around waiting for your controller to vibrate, then trying to figure out game logic during interviews doesn't float your boat; this is going to be a pretty boring game.

And the whole investigation/interrogation aspect of the game is fairly flawed. I would expect this to be seriously expanded and maybe re-tooled for the sequel.

Other than that, it's an interactive movie that will constantly remind you of L.A. Confidential... which will constantly remind you of Chinatown.

"She's my sister." "She's my daughter."
 

Netrigan

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DustyDrB said:
Overall, I'd say its a marvelous game that succeeded where a game like Heavy Rain failed. LA Noire pulled off the whole mystery adventure while still keeping it first and foremost a game. But it does has several flaws, many of which are incredibly frustrating.
A shame the two games can't fuse into one. While the endless QTEs brought Heavy Rain down, I liked feeling in control during cut-scenes and it never failed in keeping my interest during these scenes. In L.A. Noire, I often have to fight my wavering attention during cut-scenes.
 

Netrigan

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Want to understand the criticisms, take a good look at the trailers. They're not advertising a 3D version of a point-and-click adventure game or even a detective game. The trailers focus pretty heavily on action. I just watched two of them and at no point did they show Phelps asking anninterrogation question. Don't think they even showed him finding a clue (maybe a gun clue). This creates an expectation in people's mind. The game might be good (I liked it) but it's not what they expected.

A good movie example would be Clint Eastwood's The Beguilded about a Civil War soldier recooperating at a girl's school. Very good movie but the trailer took every action scene in the movie and promised a shoot 'em up adventure. This is what happens when they don't trust the audience to check out something a bit different.
 

Panipal2005

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Netrigan said:
Want to understand the criticisms, take a good look at the trailers. They're not advertising a 3D version of a point-and-click adventure game or even a detective game. The trailers focus pretty heavily on action. I just watched two of them and at no point did they show Phelps asking anninterrogation question. Don't think they even showed him finding a clue (maybe a gun clue). This creates an expectation in people's mind. The game might be good (I liked it) but it's not what they expected.
You mean apart from the gameplay trailers Rockstar created specifically to showcase the interrogation elements?
 

Netrigan

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Panipal2005 said:
Netrigan said:
Want to understand the criticisms, take a good look at the trailers. They're not advertising a 3D version of a point-and-click adventure game or even a detective game. The trailers focus pretty heavily on action. I just watched two of them and at no point did they show Phelps asking anninterrogation question. Don't think they even showed him finding a clue (maybe a gun clue). This creates an expectation in people's mind. The game might be good (I liked it) but it's not what they expected.
You mean apart from the gameplay trailers Rockstar created specifically to showcase the interrogation elements?
I've seen quite a few trailers and not a one focused on the investigations. I did see some longer videos focusing on game play elements, but those aren't exactly what shows up as mass market trailers. The most serious advertising focused on the action elements.

And that's what a lot of people are going to think the game is.

I knew the from the first glowing reviews that this game was going to get noticeably lower user reviews. Between the advertising and Rockstar getting top billing ("Rockstar Presents L.A. Noire") that there were going to be a lot of people picking this up without checking under the hood first. It's waaaaay too easy for someone to think L.A. Confidential mixed with GTA. The reality being it's a throw-back to games that haven't been popular for well over a decade.
 

GonzoGamer

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I can see why the critics are giving it higher praise than the fans: critics don?t have to pay $60 for it. The game does bring some new things to the table but it doesn?t make them nearly as sophisticated as they could be: the detail you get in the interrogations is very fine (though you don?t need it to be with the monster ?gives? characters have: like they were taught how to lie by Randy from South Park) but the detail in which you get to interact is very broad: truth/doubt/lie doesn?t cover the bases on it?s own when you have no idea how aggressive your character will be. And as interesting as that part of the game is, it contrasts so much with the basic GTA aspect so much that the game begs for another mechanic like that: perp line-up or as witness in the court case. There?s a few more layers they could?ve easily added on with the tech they made for interrogation but all they did was make a pretty dry investigation & interrogation minigame in the middle of GTA.
I think the consumers would?ve felt it was worth their $60 if the game took more advantage of what was under the hood. Personally I?m enjoying the rental but I?m also glad I didn?t throw down $60 for it: I?m whizzing through it and I don?t see much replay value. I bought Portal 2 even with it?s lack of replay value because of all the free dlc from modders AND Valve on the way. R* games tend to be worth waiting for goty.
 

The Wykydtron

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Sep 23, 2010
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Mypetmonkey said:
Because Pheonix Wright does it better!
[HEADING=2]Hold it![/HEADING]

Since LA:N is an investigation based game, surely you mean Miles Edgeworth Investigations did it better? Since the investigations in the original PW games don't come anywhere near as good as the ones in Edgeys Investigations

OT: How ever bad the overarching storyline is, the investigations and interrogations were good enough to make it one of the best and probably the most original games of the year...
 

Madman123456

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If the interrogation wont grip you, maybe because you've been catapulted out of the story by the good faces compared to the normal bodies we see in videogames all the time, which don't look all that realistic sometimes, or you find the system in which you gather clues artificial or you're taken aback by the reaction your character shows when you doubt someone,
the game doesn't have much else to hold itself up. And then it really is rather boring.
 

Casual Shinji

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Traffic beat was fun (eventhough every traffic case you were assigned to always involved murder) , but it's with homicide that the game becomes a terrible stick-in-the-mud.

After the first 2 homicide cases you know that something's wrong, but you're constantly presented with another murder suspect which you know is not the real killer but you have arrest them anyway because. And don't even get me started on that fucking fetch quest.

The moment I entered vice I was just tired of the game and of Cole Phelps' amphibious face.

In a nutshell; The game is fucking monotonous to a fault.
 

Chase Yojimbo

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Sep 1, 2009
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Every game has faults. If I ever found a game that was perfect I would have to accuse it's makers of being from another planet and being the true gods of the universe. LA:N was a great game, though it has no replayability (since I beat the living shit out of it), and I can understand why it got such a low consumer score. Because people of this age have been given Action/Sandbox/Adventure/FPS/TPS/ and the list goes on.

The point I try to make is that Rockstar tried to make a game that was simply not in the right time. They tried to give a game of story and patience to a person who was impatient and wanted to shoot things. They gave a game of Law to a person who wanted to break it. They gave a game to the people who were opposite to it.

Despite the several flaws the game had, I enjoyed the story thuroughly
except for the affair between Elsa and Cole, that part was just... stupid. But I can see why it was needed. Our hero was beginning to polish the marble statue of himself after his many successes.
Gameplay I never looked at, and in a game like this I don't really need to. The facial expressions were glorious, but in the Interrogative Sessions they were all forced, which killed a little bit of me as I continued. Over all LA:N was still a good game with good story. If people could see what the game was made for instead of what it wasn't made for, then consumer score would be higher, much higher.
 

S_Freedom

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I didn't find much to really complain about the game was nice the only thing that really got we was it way ended. and i do agree that with the homicide part it game was really going around aimlessly
 

ImprovizoR

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My biggest complaint is that the game doesn't allow you to have any kind of fun on your own. You're only allowed to have as much fun as the game wants you to have. That's not a very good game design. The game did the same thing Mafia 2 did. They threw you in an open world and all you can do in that open world is the story. I wasn't expecting a GTA game, but I wasn't expecting an empty world either.
 

OManoghue

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I personally loved it. I liked the focus on finding clues and whatever opposed to shooting and what not.
 

EzraPound

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Netrigan said:
It all comes down to if you like the investigation/interrogation aspect of the game. The driving and shooting mechanics are just serviceable. If walking around waiting for your controller to vibrate, then trying to figure out game logic during interviews doesn't float your boat; this is going to be a pretty boring game.

And the whole investigation/interrogation aspect of the game is fairly flawed. I would expect this to be seriously expanded and maybe re-tooled for the sequel.

Other than that, it's an interactive movie that will constantly remind you of L.A. Confidential... which will constantly remind you of Chinatown.

"She's my sister." "She's my daughter."
1) The investigative elements are typical adventure fare, somewhat retooled--provided someone accepts the game for what it is, rather than what they think it should be, I don't see a problem.

2) By "flawed" do you mean "ambiguously constructed"? Because a lot of fans seem to be complaining that it's difficult to predict the responses of interviewees or the exact nature of the assertions being put forth--aspects of the game which I felt kept it surprising, since I was acing all of the action portions and clue hunts by latter half of the game but still found interrogations a more human, less statistical process.

3) The game is kitsch, sure. But the narratives of games have to reach parity with films before they can eclipse them--and for the most part, I found myself started by the quality of L.A. Noire's voice acting, facial animations, and muted, not-always-in-your-face story. I mean, in what other game is there random in-dialogue references to Clement Attlee's rivalry with Winston Churchill?

ImprovizoR said:
My biggest complaint is that the game doesn't allow you to have any kind of fun on your own. You're only allowed to have as much fun as the game wants you to have. That's not a very good game design. The game did the same thing Mafia 2 did. They threw you in an open world and all you can do in that open world is the story. I wasn't expecting a GTA game, but I wasn't expecting an empty world either.
So it's not a fleshed-out sandbox game. . . why is that a problem? The single-player can easily take twenty hours, and the street crime missions are a nice diversion. Removed from the context of the expectations of a Rockstar game, I'd say there's plenty to do--and, more importantly, that the core gameplay isn't amiss.

Casual Shinji said:
Traffic beat was fun (eventhough every traffic case you were assigned to always involved murder) , but it's with homicide that the game becomes a terrible stick-in-the-mud.

After the first 2 homicide cases you know that something's wrong, but you're constantly presented with another murder suspect which you know is not the real killer but you have arrest them anyway because. And don't even get me started on that fucking fetch quest.

The moment I entered vice I was just tired of the game and of Cole Phelps' amphibious face.

In a nutshell; The game is fucking monotonous to a fault.
Compared to what. . . Escape from Monkey Island? It's a fucking adventure game.