Why the Geth Heretic situation in ME2 was even more complicated than usually given credit for...

[bz316]

Mass Effect 2 has presented us with a wide plethora of difficult ideas and decisions to mull over (as great art is apt to do). From the questionable morality of destroying or saving the genophage cure, to preserving or blowing up the Collector Base, ME2 really threw some complicated shit at the player. None more so, however, than the question of the Geth Heretic destroy/re-write.

At first glance, this is already a deeply complicated and tricky philosophical decision. The way it's essentially presented is the question of which is preferable: freedom of will or basic survival? Which fate is worst: unwilling belief or genocide? Even at its topmost layer of consideration, players were already faced with an intensely personal choice, forcing them to consider their own deeply held convictions and beliefs in idealism versus basic pragmatism. But the truth is, the problem goes even further than this.

Consider how the Geth are presented to players. The Geth are not a conglomeration of individuals, but neither are they a true collective. They are a vast collection of limited programs that conglomerate to form a "Gestalt Intelligence". In one sense they are a single being, only able to identify "individual" geth in regards to "platforms", housing a certain number of VI's to perform set functions, technically ceasing to exist as individual persons once they upload their experiences at hubs, yet shown to have, in these "platforms", a limited form of individuality (yet to be truly determined though). Therefore, it is not unreasonable to consider all Geth as one person (described by EDI as a "single mind expanding the breadth of the galactic arm"). Even the heretics were still viewed as part of this one Geth (confirmed by Shepard's statement "In a way, what you do to them, you do to yourselves"). In this sense, the two Geth factions seem less like separate persons, simply two personalities within the same person. In this sense, the problem of re-write becomes even more complicated because now it's no longer just a problem of philosophy. Maybe it's a problem of psychology. In that sense, would re-writing the Geth be akin to simply curing a personality disorder? But then the question becomes even more complicated when Legion is shocked to discover that these heretic Geth have severed their connection to the other Geth, hiding new data and subroutines. In a sense, putting themselves on the path to becoming a new "person." Is it wrong to stifle or destroy the creation of that new person? And if you treat them as separate factions, but still "single minds," is wiping them out still genocide, or is it more like homicide (killing one person)? Opinions people?

 

[Tharwen]

It's unfairly hard...

On the one hand, I utterly oppose all forms of mind control (under which I categorise drug abuse/censorship/etc.), but on the other, wiping out an entire species, especially one which was starting to seem capable of individuality, is just wrong.

Umm... I think I chose to destroy them in the end, because the two outcomes were practically very similar.

As for the individuality thing, surely the fact that Legion is capable of existing on his (its?) own is enough to show that they at least can recognise themselves as individuals, even if their current setup doesn't allow it. Imagine if they were all severed from the collective consciousness at once...

 

[Vault101]

thats one thing I don't like for all the complex moral desicions you make its undermined by the paragon/renegade systm

it encourages you to choose eather side, somtimes regardless of what you actually think, sure you might belive that its wrong to "brainwash" them but if you really need those paragon points...

and if you dont go paragon.renegade you get the impression your not "doing it" right

 

[FFHAuthor]

Remember how Legion presented the issue though? A fundamental flaw in the way the Heretics think. To me that means that they're the equivalent of brain damaged and their minds do not function properly. They add 1+1 and get 3, not 2. With that thought I viewed reprogram or destroy the geth as a good or evil choice. Paragon, reprogram them and let them back to the geth, or renegade and destroy them all as revenge for the attacks on humanity.

 

[Ian Meier]

But remember think of how many extremist groups have used that same justification to "fix" those who are different because of race, sexuality, creed, or religion. For all we know Legion could be using the same rhetoric to convince Shepard to do the deed. We don't know what motives the collective that controls Legion.

 

[SonicKaos]

I never thought about it nearly this much... I kind of wish I did though now lol.

When I was playing, I took it as "destroy the Geth or over-write the heritics so they could become good Geth again like Legion."

Personally I don't feel too bad about either option because they are robots, so destroying them doesn't register as a genocide in my mind, nor does re-writing their code register as brainwashing. In the end I honestly can't remember which option I choose. Like Vault101 said, sometimes choices are made based on the points system, and I was playing a renegade... however I still have this feeling that I choose to re-write them despite this for some reason. I should check lol.

 

[Faladorian]

It took some thinking, but I chose to kill them all.

If someone brainwashed me to believe in their religion, I would ask them why they didn't just kill me. I'd prefer it if they did.

 

[DevilWolf47]

Sadly this moral conundrum was shot in the face when i heard Shepard's reaction to Legion explaining that deploying the virus would set off a lethal EMP and couldn't stop laughing. You do see the almost childlike innocence of the Geth that shows that they are barely sentient and closer to children. They are curious and want to learn, but they can only see things logically and grow distressed when something illogical happens. The way the robot Legion emotes when he sees that the Heretics had become hostile over the disagreement actually makes it one of the characters you most strongly sympathize with. The entire time the Quarians are acting like they created these monsters, but the Geth are little more than incredibly powerful children. It's like The Incredible Hulk only well written.

 

[Skorpyo]

I had a lot of trouble with that particular conundrum. On the one hand, they were out to destroy me and everything I loved, and on the other they were almost alive. I wanted them all to live and die as they saw fit, and yet realized that destroying them would be incredibly cruel.

Then I realized I was playing a game, and slapped 'em all on the head with a virtual newspaper without giving it a second thought.

 

[Balmong7]

this is the mission that truly showed me that game designers need to change the order they place your options in, I couldn't decide what to do so i just went "hey this one is on the top that means it fits my paragon character" and then I chose it.

 

[Booze Zombie]

I chose to keep them alive because, simply, they were brainwashed into their current state and I viewed this action as restoring their minds to a previous version.

 

[Timmibal]

As for the individuality thing, surely the fact that Legion is capable of existing on his (its?) own is enough to show that they at least can recognise themselves as individuals, even if their current setup doesn't allow it.

Legion is a 'them', just a smaller 'them' than the currently networked geth collective. Also Legion's programs are constantly uploading/downloading information whenever they access the main geth 'database'. Legion has not developed individuality, their opinion is, by and large, the opinion of the geth.

Remember how Legion presented the issue though? A fundamental flaw in the way the Heretics think. To me that means that they're the equivalent of brain damaged and their minds do not function properly. They add 1+1 and get 3, not 2.

The example is Heretics think 2<3. Geth think 3<5. Neither is in error.

Their thought process wasn't "wrong", though. There's no error to correct. Brainwashing them to be silently obedient would be no better than the Reapers and their indoctrination.

Who's to say that the heretics acceptance of Old Machine influence on their development (Accepting a Reaper shell to house their consciousness as opposed to developing along a path of self-determination) was not a result of indoctrination? Nazara would have known that the methods of indoctrination it utilized on organics would not work on Geth.

Self determination is always a better option than slavery to a false god, whatever form it takes. The reapers perceive themselves to be perfect, but that is not necessarily the case. Also, the Reapers threat to the entire galaxy is, in my opinion, justification enough to exploit the information present within the heretic databases to assist in combating them.

(And before anyone jumps on this, There is a much more acceptable risk to reward ratio in this descision than the one to keep the Collector base for this reason.)

 

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

As for the individuality thing, surely the fact that Legion is capable of existing on his (its?) own is enough to show that they at least can recognise themselves as individuals, even if their current setup doesn't allow it.

Legion is a 'them', just a smaller 'them' than the currently networked geth collective. Also Legion's programs are constantly uploading/downloading information whenever they access the main geth 'database'. Legion has not developed individuality, their opinion is, by and large, the opinion of the geth.

Eh, I tend to view each geth program as a individual as each program will modify itself to improve and interact with other programs. Much like we humans. We live in a society where we tend to act as "several" large groups. (USA, Germany, UK etc).

Legion is technically a individual as well, he can't access the geth network that far outside the geth home area field of influence. so it's not like the 1000 programs are all transferring back and forth.

Though I wiped out the heretics, as others have said, better to be dead than brainwashed. Cause If I found out out... I would totally turn on those who brain washed me.

 

[Jack of Spades]

The heretics were originally going to brainwash the other Geth faction in the first place, so I had no problem doing it first. Preemptive brainwash, doing the brainwashing first before they do it to me.

 

[Bolox]

Seeing as morally there is little difference I chose the logical path. The Geth aren't as dangerous as the reapers and it would come in handy to have soldiers on hand that are immune to reaper indoctrination. Sure they'll likely be a hard to handle later but the reapers are the greater threat.

 

[Tr3mbl3Tr3mbl3]

I'm still stunned to see the overwhelming amount of players who found this to be an incredibly difficult decision. I fully understand both sides of the debate, but it seems like everyone forgets that the Geth are machines. Sure, they're highly intelligent machines. I'll even give you that they are the closest thing to synthetic life in any science fiction I've had the pleasure of experienceing, but they are machines regardless.

To me, this throws away all questions of psychology and even morality to a certain degree. Think about when your computer begins to malfunction due to a registry error or a program not being prperly installed, and you download an update to fix the problem. Is that not "brainwashing" your computer? Are you not forcing your computer to behave the way you want it to? In my eyes, there's no difference. The Geth were built as tools to serve the Quarians in the first place.

But anyway, despite how anyone feels on the topic, its incredible that Mass Effect is able to get players into intellectual discussions about psychology and philosophy. I think we can all agree that Mass Effect is truly one of the great games of our era.

 

[Easton Dark]

I put much more thought into it than this but ended up with:

Reapers are coming, more soldiers will be needed.