Why the Skyrim boycott is a waste of time and missing enjoyment.

[Yosato]

Although I agree whole-heartedly with everything the OP is saying, it's sad when you consider that this thread is ultimately pointless, no disrespect. The thing is that people who'll boycott the game have already decided that's what they'll do.

I've spoken to about half a dozen so far and pulled out every point in the book to try and convince them otherwise, or at least try and make them see my point of view, but they completely disregard any reason that doesn't point to Bethesda being the reincarnation of the Nazi party.

 

[Cavan]

Mojang offered to get rid of the Scrolls trademark entirely, Zenimax didn't accept, now here we are... Why does nobody get that shit?

Sweet, now if Mojang can travel back in time and remove the laws that give corporate entities the same rights as individuals with regards to copyright, and alter the face of copyright law entirely to ensure that forced protection isn't an issue, we can do away with all of these legal mumbo jumbo.

"Man, Micecraft was awesome, so Mojang must be awesome. Bethesda/Zenimax are suing Mojang, so they must not be awesome! Boycott all of Bethesda/Zenimax's games!"

If you don't understand what's actually happening here, refrain from posting. Mojang could call their game "Scrolls: Not the Elder Kind" and it still wouldn't fly. If you don't understand why, look it up.
Unless 'Scrolls' was actually a parody of the Elder Scrolls - parodies are protected under most countries Freedom of Speech and generally exempt from copyright cases such as this - Bethesda/Zenimax don't have any options if they seek to retain copyright against other games. If they said 'yes' to 'Scrolls' they'd be forced to say yes to 'The Old Scrolls', 'The Eldest Scrolls', 'The Scrolls of Elder', etc., all of whom might try and fool uneducated customers into thinking they were purchasing 'The Elder Scrolls'.

If you don't understand how a copyright law works when it is referring to a single word within the English language then please refrain from posting. In fact..because you said it to somebody else..go sit in the corner and think about what you did.

Copyright does not automatically give you the total right to any commercial usage of those words within the English language..If you can't see the difference between your own hyperbolic examples and simply the word "Scrolls", then I worry for you(you must be educated in law).

Let me quote some of the official copyrighting service's helpful information:

"When rights occur
Copyright is an automatic right and arises whenever an individual or company creates a work. To qualify, a work should be regarded as original, and exhibit a degree of labour, skill or judgement.
Interpretation is related to the independent creation rather than the idea behind the creation. For example, your idea for a book would not itself be protected, but the actual content of a book you write would be. In other words, someone else is still entitled to write their own book around the same idea, provided they do not directly copy or adapt yours to do so.
Names, titles, short phrases and colours are not generally considered unique or substantial enough to be covered, but a creation, such as a logo, that combines these elements may be.
In short, work that expresses an idea may be protected, but not the idea behind it."

Imagine this situation: You've been hired to work on the most astonishing game of all time, when the company you're working for has a high reputation for successful games. You work endlessly, getting paid not so well (yea, some do get paid well but not everyone), going over every concept, having to redo something because it ether glitches the game or they decide to scrap it... now imagine doing this for 5 straight years. On one game... and when it's about to be released the next month- suddenly the lawyers get up in arms with another well known company yet considered an 'Underdog' over a title of an upcoming game they're doing.

Now, fans all over are boycotting the ENTIRE company, refusing to buy the game you've dedicated 5 years too. People in less time could make buildings, or motorcycles, or even the next evolution of robots!! Do you find this fair to those who've worked so hard and had nothing to do with the suing? Just think about it guys... please.

I would like to congratulate you on being both intellectual and unique enough to be totally unbiased. You tick all my boxes.

 

[Jimbo1212]

If you inhabit the internet you know about Zenimax suing Mojang over the word "Scrolls"

And you've most likely heard how everyone Notch fanboy from here to the moon is going to boycott Skyrim because Bethesda is beating on the little man!

Ok, for one, Notch isn't little, stop defending him.

Second, Zenimax has all the right to sue Notch over this if they want to.

Third, No, Zenimax isn't the only one to blame, they sent him a cease and desist letter, his reaction? Post it on twitter and laugh about it.

Fourth, a article went up recently (This one: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.316261-Mojang-Offered-Up-Scrolls-Trademark-Bethsoft-Said-No)
and more butt hurt and flames were sputtered by Notch fanboys. Apparently Notch said that he was willing to change "Scrolls" to 'Scrolls: [some subtitle]' and now he's confused as to why he's getting sued still.

BECAUSE IT DOESN'T GET RID OF THE SCROLLS PART.

That's what Zenimax is peeved about, the Scrolls part, so adding a subtitle doesn't solve their problem.

Now is Zenimax guilt free? Of course not, they're being stupid about the lawsuit to, but Notch is being just as equally (if not more so by bringing the public into it) about the whole thing.

My overall point? Boycotting an awesome looking game because your overlord says hes completely innocent is just being stupid, please for the love of god use your brain.

Amen to that.

In this economic climate, large companies have to do everything in their power to show investors that they are trying to hold market dominance. Thus, they HAVE to sue him for this.
Also, how stupid is Notch for using part of a name of the most popular rpg series to make his own RPG? He may as well have called it Final Scroll Fanatsy.

OP: this boycotting tangent is a STRAW MAN ARGUMENT

just because people are feckless and use the threat of boycott as an empty threat

THAT DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN THEY DO NOT HAVE A POINT!!!

Zenimax are most DEFINITELY in the wrong in this situation and whatever a bunch of (failed) boycotters do or do not does it does not change the fact that they are blatantly abusing the trademark system. That should be self evident.

No they are not. As I said, using the part of the name of one of the most popular rpg series to use in your own rpg is dodgy/stupid. No investor would let Zenimax get away with not suing him.

 

[Treblaine]

Mojang offered to get rid of the Scrolls trademark entirely, Zenimax didn't accept, now here we are... Why does nobody get that shit?

Sweet, now if Mojang can travel back in time and remove the laws that give corporate entities the same rights as individuals with regards to copyright, and alter the face of copyright law entirely to ensure that forced protection isn't an issue, we can do away with all of these legal mumbo jumbo.

"Man, Micecraft was awesome, so Mojang must be awesome. Bethesda/Zenimax are suing Mojang, so they must not be awesome! Boycott all of Bethesda/Zenimax's games!"

If you don't understand what's actually happening here, refrain from posting. Mojang could call their game "Scrolls: Not the Elder Kind" and it still wouldn't fly. If you don't understand why, look it up.
Unless 'Scrolls' was actually a parody of the Elder Scrolls - parodies are protected under most countries Freedom of Speech and generally exempt from copyright cases such as this - Bethesda/Zenimax don't have any options if they seek to retain copyright against other games. If they said 'yes' to 'Scrolls' they'd be forced to say yes to 'The Old Scrolls', 'The Eldest Scrolls', 'The Scrolls of Elder', etc., all of whom might try and fool uneducated customers into thinking they were purchasing 'The Elder Scrolls'.

So explain Metal Gear Solid and Gears of War?

Condemned Criminal Origins and
Dragon Age Origins?

Mass Effect and
Fear Effect?

Call of Duty
Call of Cthullu: Dark Corners of The Earth
Call of Juarez

THAT is me looking it up, all these uncontested examples, and precedents show that Zenimax are talking out of their rectum. Remember, Notch IS offering to compromise by pinning Scrolls as a part of a larger title, but they won't accept that to spite all the precedents set before. I'm on a roll here, you can't stop me!

Infinite Space
Dead Space
Dead Rising
Advent Rising

COD: Black Ops
BLACK (2006 game)

MOTORstorm
Forza MOTORsport

Fallout New Vegas
Rainbow Six Vegas

RED faction
RED dead redemption

See how much bullshit it is to claim that if you copyright a name then you copyright every individual word that makes up that name.

My favourite one though is Zenimax's own game: "Rage" considering there is a trademark for the names "Streets of Rage", "Rage Racer" and "Primal Rage" yet they haven't sued Zenimax. They'd have to sue each other first!

If they said 'yes' to 'Scrolls' they'd be forced to say yes to 'The Old Scrolls', 'The Eldest Scrolls', 'The Scrolls of Elder'

What nonsense. Those clearly mean the exact same thing. Scrolls is clearly distinct. Or at least as distinct as Rage is from all the other games with "rage" in their title.

 

[not_you]

[...] Skyrim is going to be a great game if not awesome, [...]

Remember, that is what people said about Rage... And all I've heard from it is bad news...

OT: I think Bethesda is being a little unreasonable, but, if they want to sue him, then by all means... Not like anyone can stop them...
Although having a Quake 3 Deathmatch over the issue would've been three times more awesome than... well... ANYTHING!

 

[Treblaine]

If you inhabit the internet you know about Zenimax suing Mojang over the word "Scrolls"

And you've most likely heard how everyone Notch fanboy from here to the moon is going to boycott Skyrim because Bethesda is beating on the little man!

Ok, for one, Notch isn't little, stop defending him.

Second, Zenimax has all the right to sue Notch over this if they want to.

Third, No, Zenimax isn't the only one to blame, they sent him a cease and desist letter, his reaction? Post it on twitter and laugh about it.

Fourth, a article went up recently (This one: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.316261-Mojang-Offered-Up-Scrolls-Trademark-Bethsoft-Said-No)
and more butt hurt and flames were sputtered by Notch fanboys. Apparently Notch said that he was willing to change "Scrolls" to 'Scrolls: [some subtitle]' and now he's confused as to why he's getting sued still.

BECAUSE IT DOESN'T GET RID OF THE SCROLLS PART.

That's what Zenimax is peeved about, the Scrolls part, so adding a subtitle doesn't solve their problem.

Now is Zenimax guilt free? Of course not, they're being stupid about the lawsuit to, but Notch is being just as equally (if not more so by bringing the public into it) about the whole thing.

My overall point? Boycotting an awesome looking game because your overlord says hes completely innocent is just being stupid, please for the love of god use your brain.

Amen to that.

In this economic climate, large companies have to do everything in their power to show investors that they are trying to hold market dominance. Thus, they HAVE to sue him for this.
Also, how stupid is Notch for using part of a name of the most popular rpg series to make his own RPG? He may as well have called it Final Scroll Fanatsy

Yeah, it's like someone who is making a game that rivals Final Fantasy be called "The Last Story" or something. They'd never allow that:

Oh wait, they did do that. Why? Because they had every right to.

PS: blowing a shit load of money on lawyers, court fees and delaying games is NOT HELPING ANY ECONOMY!! It's not like the lawyers are in dire need of work! This does nothing but inhibit growth.

 

[Wicky_42]

Telling people not to boycott and telling them it's a waste of time sounds of desperation. Really, why do YOU care if someone doesn't buy Skyrim?

I will say this, if you want to boycott Bethesda/Zenimax and would have played Skyrim on a console, then just buy it used. Bethesda/Zenimax get no money from you but you still get Skyrim.

Because I want an honest company to make a profit off of their own project that they've put time and energy and love into, A novel idea supporting something I know

Yeah - and all those people who dare to save rather than purchase every console and every game available, not giving all their money to all those companies making stuff, and all those assholes walking rather than getting taxis because it "saves money" and "it's healthier", not giving their money to an honest business - don't you just hate it? It's almost as if people are free to do what they want. I want people to pay me lots of money for what I do, but that doesn't always happen - what is wrong with the world?!

 

[DSK-]

I don't care in the slightest about the legal shenanigans between Bethesda and Mojang. I do have aome interest however in Skyrim.

 

[Jimbo1212]

Yeah, it's like someone who is making a game that rivals Final Fantasy be called "The Last Story" or something. They'd never allow that:

Oh wait, they did do that. Why? Because they had every right to.

PS: blowing a shit load of money on lawyers, court fees and delaying games is NOT HELPING ANY ECONOMY!! It's not like the lawyers are in dire need of work! This does nothing but inhibit growth.

Not at all.
Even though we can see what they are doing, you could not prove it in a court. However, take parts of a name can be shown and if the name is copyrighted then you have a good chance of successfully suing them.

 

[Ranorak]

You know what, I don't care.

I like Minecraft.
I like Oblivion, Morrowind and probably Skyrim.

But you know, I don't see these companies as my personal friend or close relative.

They are companies that produce a product that I like.
How they do it, what they do and who the sue... I don't care.

As long as I get my product.

 

[Wicky_42]

Imagine this situation: You've been hired to work on the most astonishing game of all time, when the company you're working for has a high reputation for successful games. You work endlessly, getting paid not so well (yea, some do get paid well but not everyone), going over every concept, having to redo something because it ether glitches the game or they decide to scrap it... now imagine doing this for 5 straight years. On one game... and when it's about to be released the next month- suddenly the lawyers get up in arms with another well known company yet considered an 'Underdog' over a title of an upcoming game they're doing.

Now, fans all over are boycotting the ENTIRE company, refusing to buy the game you've dedicated 5 years too. People in less time could make buildings, or motorcycles, or even the next evolution of robots!! Do you find this fair to those who've worked so hard and had nothing to do with the suing? Just think about it guys... please.

...so? Many people work hard on things and may not be appreciated, through their own fault or not. I'm working as an architect; the pay's not exactly amazing, the work is intense, we're expected to put in unpaid overtime, at the end of the day the client can just tell you to fuck off and give your drawings to someone else and even if it does get built it's unlikely to get any sort of critical acclaim and may even face protests from the ignorant or concerned no matter how carefully you approached the project.

So what? That's life. If you employ assholes to do big, public, asshole-y things then you have to live with the consequences. They brought this upon themselves, taking on a company with such popular appeal over something that seems to continuously revealed as more and more petty and pedantic.
See:

[ quote snip ]

So explain Metal Gear Solid and Gears of War?

Condemned Criminal Origins and
Dragon Age Origins?

Mass Effect and
Fear Effect?

Call of Duty
Call of Cthullu: Dark Corners of The Earth
Call of Juarez

THAT is me looking it up, all these uncontested examples, and precedents show that Zenimax are talking out of their rectum. Remember, Notch IS offering to compromise by pinning Scrolls as a part of a larger title, but they won't accept that to spite all the precedents set before. I'm on a roll here, you can't stop me!

Infinite Space
Dead Space
Dead Rising
Advent Rising

COD: Black Ops
BLACK (2006 game)

MOTORstorm
Forza MOTORsport

Fallout New Vegas
Rainbow Six Vegas

RED faction
RED dead redemption

See how much bullshit it is to claim that if you copyright a name then you copyright every individual word that makes up that name.

My favourite one though is Zenimax's own game: "Rage" considering there is a trademark for the names "Streets of Rage", "Rage Racer" and "Primal Rage" yet they haven't sued Zenimax. They'd have to sue each other first!

If they said 'yes' to 'Scrolls' they'd be forced to say yes to 'The Old Scrolls', 'The Eldest Scrolls', 'The Scrolls of Elder'

What nonsense. Those clearly mean the exact same thing. Scrolls is clearly distinct. Or at least as distinct as Rage is from all the other games with "rage" in their title.

Tell me again what ground Zenimax is standing on with their moaning? Lol, everything about this is retarded XD

 

[Hanzo Hattori]

Notch himself mentioned on Twitter that he's going to buy Skyrim nonetheless, just to point that out.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

Zenimax are not in the wrong to pursue this lawsuit, especially when Notches compromise is almost insulting.

Zenimax is in the wrong to pursue this lawsuit.

The word "scrolls" is not their intellectual property.

You might want to learn about how trademarking works, and what notch decided to trademark with that name. The word itself is not an IP, but the context it's trademarked under is.

 

[mrsuperunderpants]

It seems to me that there must be something more going on behind the scenes than what is being said by Notch. I don't honestly think Bethesda would have gone into a legal battle so close to the release of Skyrim unless it was a battle that needed to be fought.

I just don't think Bethesda is pulling the dick move we are all assuming.

OT: No boycotting for me I am so buying Skyrim!!!

 

[Shilefin]

I'm a giant fan of both Skyrim and Minecraft. I loved oblivion and morrowind, and played them both to death. At this point i really don't care if Bethesda kidnaps people and sells their organs on the black market, i just want the goddamn game.

 

[hyplion]

The simple fact that everyone talks about skyrim, and not about the new TES game, should point out the scrolls part is quite irrelvant in the name.
The large amout of funny faces i have gotten during the years when referring to the games as elder scrolls, people know morrowind and oblivion. Most are unaware its the elder scrolls and there are even fewer people who know about the existence of arena and daggerfall.
Betheshda's legal team needs a tabletennis table to get through their long and empty work days...

 

[Zeriu]

Has anyone ever followed the whole thing? Bethesda Softworks (the publisher) sued Mojang, not Bethesda Game Studios( the developer). That's what I know. I see no reason to shit on somebody's work just because their friend was an asshole. Also Notch was an asshole for proposing a Quake 3 match. It was the insult that showed me Notch is a human being after all and not the nerd god everybody says he is.