Why the XBone is a good console

[Gatx]

2. Game sharing:
After Sony's admittedly hilarious video about sharing games (which was also perceived as childish by some, but I think these little slaps are fun in a way) people have been saying that you won't be able to share games on the XBone. Well, yes and no. You can still share games, you can give your game to up to 10 of your friends without even having to hand them your disc, they'll just have it on their account and can easily download and play it right away. The only thing here is, you need to have them on your friends list for at least 30 days and you can only give them them every game once. But honestly, I don't think that's too limiting. I wouldn't hand out my games to people that I just met either. And if you know them for a while and they just made a new account, then 30 days isn't bad either. Apart from that, I've never seen anyone rent a game twice. If you like it after playing it, you usually just buy it.

I think you're mixing things up a bit. What you can do is allow up to 10 family members on any Xbone to play your games. I don't know if they clarified how they would distinguish family members (maybe by household?) but I doubt ANYONE on your friend's list could play all of your games. The other feature is that you're allowed to give away any game you own, as long as the person you're giving it to has been on your friends list for 30 days, BUT they'd be stuck with it and can't give it away themselves.

10. Price:
I know, I know, money doesn't grow on trees. However, the console price is essentially the same for both. What makes up the other 100 dollars are the extra things in the package, like the Kinect, that you'd have to purchase separately for the PS4. And Gold doesn't count as an argument either, Microsoft and Sony both do the paying for multiplayer now. And so far, Microsoft's servers seem more powerful (waiting for statement on Sony's side), and they've been that way in the past as well.

See, a lot of people don't want a Kinect, so it's irksome that even if you want an Xbone but don't want a Kinect, it's included in the package. If you describe it as an extra bonus thing they're throwing in then it sounds better, but if you want to use the Kinect to justify the $100 price difference, it just highlights the fact that you're being made to purchase this unwanted accessory upfront. Plus I doubt anyone who gets a PS4 is just dying to get whatever new version of Move that might be coming out.

 

[klaynexas3]

There's no reason to have a 24 hour check in time that is in the favor of the consumer. It is a horrible policy that we all hate at any rate, so that's one bad thing about it. Then they force you to connect your games to an account, making it to where it's like a digital store. To be fair, as a digital store policy, that's a pretty good one allowing for games to be shared and even given to friends. However, this is a console, not a PC, and so we don't want to see it shift from a console style market where the physical copies reign supreme. With the PS4, I will be capable of giving my games to friends if I want, sharing them if I want, playing it offline for longer than a day if I damn well want. With the Xbone, I would have to go through Microsoft and the publishers to do all this, and I couldn't play it offline for longer than a day either way. And on top of all this, they force you to have a camera that is always on as long as the console is, making the price $100 more. So, with all that in consideration, with the hardware being fairly close with these two consoles, there are far more negatives on the Xbone than on the PS4, so, by comparison, the Xbone is the crappier of the two consoles. And by general standards of policies, it's one of the worst consoles so far.

I can just repeat my prior statement, neither of the consoles is worse or better. Especially not now, the consoles aren't even released yet.
I've talked about most of your arguments further up in this post, so just read it through if you want. A few of the things you mentioned are problems, but many aren't too much.

As the Xbone is now, it is a bad console theoretically, if we are going to have to go into the technicalities of it all. If the only reason why we can't say it's a bad console now is because it isn't a final product yet and not out yet, then this entire thread is moot because it couldn't be a good console either.

However, my argument shall simply be that the theoretical Xbone that we are seeing as of now is theoretically a bad console. The 24 hour check in on its own is a bad call. There are plenty of people that cannot comply with this policy, and so even objectively, Microsoft will lose money on those sales. Then with its used game policy, it moves it closer to basically being an all digital console/store, like if there were ever to be a Steambox. However, going from a physical to a digital style system goes back to the first part with the 24 hour check in, about how most people wouldn't be able to go along with this simply because of the way that the internet works in their part of the world. It alienates more people, making the console more exclusive and thus making it to where less people are capable of getting and using said console. That's just a bad marketing plan.

If the console policies change to be more consumer friendly, then that modified Xbone will be a good console. However, as it stands with all the information that Microsoft has given us, the console we are currently looking at is a bad console.

The reason why I say the PS4 is the better of the consoles is simply because it has more accessibility, while sacrificing virtually none of the capabilities(except for the digital store aspects) of the Xbone, and on top of this being cheaper because they aren't forcing a piece of hardware on it that plenty of people don't even want. If the PS4 changed its current policies, it too would be a bad console, but as it stands, it lets you just play games as they are without jumping through any major hoops like the Xbone is requiring. That is why the current theoretical PS4 is better than the current theoretical Xbone.

 

[mKeRix]

The only thing Microsoft has done wrong (and boy have they done it wrong) is the marketing side of things.

Yep, that's their thing lately. Maybe they'll get some help from Nokia and turn it around again? ;D

Yup I am with you and anyone trying to just brush off the backlash towards the Xbox One as pure mob mentality is ridiculous many of us have followed what Microsoft have said and what they are doing and decided that we want no part in it myself included.

All Microsoft have done is put barriers in front of people and their games, Sony have as well which is also incredibly annoying but it just goes to show how badly Microsoft have messed up that the amount Sony have done is seen as acceptable because Microsoft themselves introduced the concept before and got away with it somehow.

The whole Xbox One console is a headache and its not a direction I and it seems many others approve of. The games could be amazing but at what cost?

It's not pure mob mentality, and I'm completely fine with anyone wanting buy a PS4. But a lot of what is going right now is indeed just an angry mob declaring the PS4 and Sony as the "holy angel of gamers".
The XBox one introduce new things and also new restrictions, but on top of that a lot of new advantages.
And you know, if the games are amazing, the console details don't matter. I feel like I'm kinda misusing Yahtzee's opinion here, but consoles are for games. If they are good games for a console, people will buy it.

I usually get all the consoles and have been gaming for a long time but the Xbone is the first console that has actually turned me fully against it and quite frankly disgusted me with its attitude towards consumers.

Frankly if public opinion does sway against Microsoft spreading beyond the dedicated gamer to the more casual person it will be a job well done.

Feel free to not buy an XBone, nobody is forcing you to do so.
And it won't, I'm pretty sure about that. We've been through this so many times, and the casual customer simply doesn't are, because for them, it works. That's all they want, it working and games. They don't care about how bad the restrictions may be according to your opinion.

I think you're mixing things up a bit. What you can do is allow up to 10 family members on any Xbone to play your games. I don't know if they clarified how they would distinguish family members (maybe by household?) but I doubt ANYONE on your friend's list could play all of your games. The other feature is that you're allowed to give away any game you own, as long as the person you're giving it to has been on your friends list for 30 days, BUT they'd be stuck with it and can't give it away themselves.

Again, pardon on mixing it up a little bit. I already updated the main post while you're writing though, so I hope that there's no more confusion about this.

See, a lot of people don't want a Kinect, so it's irksome that even if you want an Xbone but don't want a Kinect, it's included in the package. If you describe it as an extra bonus thing they're throwing in then it sounds better, but if you want to use the Kinect to justify the $100 price difference, it just highlights the fact that you're being made to purchase this unwanted accessory upfront. Plus I doubt anyone who gets a PS4 is just dying to get whatever new version of Move that might be coming out.

I know that they're forcing it onto you. I don't work for Microsoft, so I can't really tell you for sure why they chose that way. I explained my theory in the first post, but I see that it still upsets people. The Kinect is really just something that makes things more fun and more interactive. It's like the new Wii U controller.
It's no decision that I'd consider as particularly well solved, but I understand in a way. I don't think customers will care about the higher price too much, at least as of now, but that's something we'll only be able to see when it's out. Apart from that, prices are something that can change, so there's that.

 

[TomWiley]

The only thing that has been "dismantled" is Microsoft's own credibility. I don't care that the Kinect can be turned off when you aren't playing.

But that's aside the point. You claimed that The Kinect spies on you, but if you had read the original post you'd know that you can turn it off whenever you want.

All I was saying is that you should take the time to actually read the posts you reply to. Just my two cents.

"And frankly, your implication that I'm saying anything I'm saying because of "mob mentality" is insulting."

Frankly, your implication that I'm an unused account, managed by Microsoft's damage recovery is insulting.

"Sometimes the mob has a point and the point now is that Microsoft have dun goofed."

So wait, now you are part of the mob?

Anyway, the mob might have had a point. Sometime in the beginning. But whatever point that was, it has since long been deep-fried in layers of hype and fanboyism. If you say that you don't want to use pay an extra 100 dollars for a Kinect - that's fine. If you say that you like the Kinect always spying on you - that's not fine. That's you, spreading rumors that just aren't true.

 

[MysticSlayer]

snip

(Note: I'm numbering based on the numbers you used.)

1. I actually have to agree with this. Ubisoft has already said they'll support used games, and EA said they want to get rid of the online pass, which puts two major publishers against the current scare that everyone will abuse MIcrosoft's system, at least based on the information we have so far. Then again, given that used games can still be sold under certain conditions, companies like Ubisoft and EA may still abuse the Xbone's system. We'll have to wait and see what companies do with it rather than jump to conclusions just yet. Still, it doesn't look like this is an advantage the PS4 has, considering they want to be the "same as PS3" when it comes to this issue, and the online pass could already be used in that situation.

2. After learning more about their game sharing, I am a little on the fence. It almost seems like they're taking a few tips from Steam in how we can share and trade games, but making it a little more convenient than even Steam has at this point. Still, I'm a little skeptical as to how it will be used in practice, so I'm waiting to see how things turn out.

3. I just recently went without Internet for 1.5 weeks, not because I didn't have Internet access to my house but because my router broke. After that experience, I can say the mandatory every 24 hour connection would be horrible to have in situations like that. I also understand that getting good Internet isn't a guarantee. For these reasons, I simply cannot forgive Microsoft for this decision unless they get rid of the mandatory connection, especially since most of my time is spent playing singleplayer-only games, with most of the multiplayer being fighting or split-screen games that can be played on one TV.

4. Maybe I missed something, but the last time I checked, the most you could do was turn the entire console off (i.e. the Kinect won't be spying on you when the console is off). I don't expect Microsoft to get involved in the privacy issues people are accusing them of, but at the same time, I don't like the idea of having the Kinect there. I'd imagine too many developers will try to implement it into their games, and the last thing I want is another craze similar to what developers did with the Wii's motion controls.

5. It is weaker than the PS4. Not much of a difference, but the PS4 will still be able to pump out a little extra power while still maintaining a consistent framerate. This will likely be more noticeable in exclusives, but it is something you can't ignore either.

6. I'm buying it for games, not entertainment. You want to know the last time I used the 360 for anything but gaming? Never, that's when. I don't want to pay $500, when most of that money is going to give me an entertainment system, where most of the heavily advertised features will go completely unused. Granted, I doubt the PS4 will be much better in this regard, given the PS3's "It only does everything" slogan, but at least they seem like they are more concerned about games.

7. The PS4 controller looks to be an improvement over the PS3, which I actually preferred to the 360's controller. It seems slightly bigger and sturdier, which were the two major advantages that the 360 controller had over the PS3's controller. On the other hand, the Xbone one looks like they just made the 360 one bulkier, which is the last thing it needed.

8. They both look ugly.

9. I'll take notice of exclusives when the Xbone fixes its other issues. You actually need to have a decent consoles before exclusives mean anything. What good are the games if the console is crap? Not to mention, though the PS4 has fewer exclusives, they are certainly more appealing at this point than the Xbone.

10. Why would I want to pay an extra $100 for a console that is weaker, which puts more emphasis on features on features I don't want, is less convenient, and is made by a company that treats its customers like shit? There is no way this thing will even be worth the money until a massive price drop that takes it below what PS4 is offering.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

I remember first reading about all of the restrictive, invasive bullshit Microsoft is trying to cram down our throats and thinking to myself, "Well no one can possibly defend this, right?".

Oh, internet. You never cease to amaze/depress me.

Edit: bonus points for all of the "this is the future, deal with it" attitudes permeating this discussion. The future is what we, collectively, say it is. If people had enough gumption and sense not to buy XB1, we could easily shape the future of the industry into one that doesn't constantly try to fuck us.

Edit edit: the daily connection requirement is probably a non-issue for me personally. I'm still not okay with it. Why? Because it negatively affects other human beings, and I'm not a twat. And no, it's not as simple as "if you can't reliably connect to internet every day, buy a PS4". If the publishers are making more money off XB1 due to its restrictive features/policies, they will shift support/exclusives to the more profitable console. This will force Sony to either fall behind or adopt similar practices. So yeah, don't pretend like you're not enabling these ridiculously greedy publishers simply because you're not personally affected.

 

[mKeRix]

None of the other features can even be considered for me, because as soon as I saw the online requirement, I knew it would just be a useless box in my house. I can't imagine it working on dial-up. (Which is the only internet available, for now. I live in a really rural area that nobody likes to give stuff to, like say, cell phone towers or broadband.)

That sort of overrules the other benefits, if you know what I mean.

Definitely, I never stated otherwise. If you buy a console, don't buy an XBox One. Not yet at least. This console is meant to be for another target group at the moment, and as sad as that is, we can only hope it changes.

As the Xbone is now, it is a bad console theoretically, if we are going to have to go into the technicalities of it all. If the only reason why we can't say it's a bad console now is because it isn't a final product yet and not out yet, then this entire thread is moot because it couldn't be a good console either.

However, my argument shall simply be that the theoretical Xbone that we are seeing as of now is theoretically a bad console. The 24 hour check in on its own is a bad call. There are plenty of people that cannot comply with this policy, and so even objectively, Microsoft will lose money on those sales. Then with its used game policy, it moves it closer to basically being an all digital console/store, like if there were ever to be a Steambox. However, going from a physical to a digital style system goes back to the first part with the 24 hour check in, about how most people wouldn't be able to go along with this simply because of the way that the internet works in their part of the world. It alienates more people, making the console more exclusive and thus making it to where less people are capable of getting and using said console. That's just a bad marketing plan.

If the console policies change to be more consumer friendly, then that modified Xbone will be a good console. However, as it stands with all the information that Microsoft has given us, the console we are currently looking at is a bad console.

The reason why I say the PS4 is the better of the consoles is simply because it has more accessibility, while sacrificing virtually none of the capabilities(except for the digital store aspects) of the Xbone, and on top of this being cheaper because they aren't forcing a piece of hardware on it that plenty of people don't even want. If the PS4 changed its current policies, it too would be a bad console, but as it stands, it lets you just play games as they are without jumping through any major hoops like the Xbone is requiring. That is why the current theoretical PS4 is better than the current theoretical Xbone.

Your opinion is completely valid in that way. If the 24h limit is bothersome, then the theoretical PS4 is the better choice for you right now (or, you know, a PC).
We'll indeed have to wait for the release of the consoles, only then we'll know what's actually the case. And till then, there's still room to change the course. The online store concept has advantages and disadvantages, but it can work completely fine (e.g. Steam).
The reason Microsoft is maybe alienating markets is because they want to have all features available at launch, which can be pretty hard with all the governments and organizations and laws. But that's just one interpretation. There could literally be any reason to it.
But you're right, their marketing definitely still needs work - these marketing failures happened way too often lately. For the XBone, half of it is caused by people not listening, which is sad, but something they should take into account for their next move.

 

[GonvilleBromhead]

The simple question I asked myself was - what am I getting that the PS4 hasn't got for the extra $100? From what I can see, all I'm getting is additional inconvenience.

 

[ScrabbitRabbit]

It is optional, that's confirmed. There even was an article on the Escapist frontpage not too long ago about the developers behind The Witcher and them being convinced that they won't have to add in any DRM.
I couldn't find any better article in English right now to prove that, but this will do. I'm certain they mentioned it being optional in another official statement as well, but I don't know where anymore. I'll maybe edit in if I find it.

This page: http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license specifically calls out "participating retailers" for used games and your own link confirms the need for authentication. It kind of feels like they're giving independent retailers the shaft here, which is a shame, because I buy all my console games from indies; their prices are so much better! This page mentions that some games cannot be traded, too: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/pre-order-xbox-one/disclaimer

Also is this the Escapist article you meant? http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/124848-Xbox-One-DRM-Wont-Deter-Witcher-3-Studio Because I'm not sure your interpretation of this article was quite the same as mine.

In the end I think it comes down to whether or not you think the new conveniences are worth tolerating the restrictions for. The 24 hour check-in seems a little too strict, but everything else is more or less what I'd expect from a system that allows you to download games that you've bought physically.

I can't help but think the used games thing could be handled just a tad better, though; maybe allow you to de-register your serial code manually and put it back into the database? There might be something I'm not aware of or an exploit I'm not seeing that makes that impossible, but it would be the ideal situation, I think. Still, what they have is more generous than, say, Steam, where you can't trade games at all. Steam does let me play offline though!

Still, for me, these are the kinds of inconveniences that are driving me away from PC gaming. The only thing keeping me here is the fact that I prefer mouse and keyboard controls and that I love the PC's exclusives. The conveniences of Steam are slowly being outweighed by the restrictions and I can't help but feel that the Xbone has fewer conveniences and more restrictions when you consider my situation (spotty internet, poor). I think the best thing Microsoft can do for their PR is ensure that game prices compete with PC game prices. Many PC gamers will only tolerate the fact that they're only buying the publisher's permission to play the game, rather than the game itself is because they can get so many games for so cheap.

If the Xbone's features outweigh it's restrictions for you, then buy it. Your buying it won't affect my own experience... I hope :']

[small]Personally, I was never gonna get one anyway; the Xbox has never had the kind of exclusives I want except for Ninja Gaiden and Otogi on the original and Lost Odyssey on 360.[/small]

 

[DudeistBelieve]

sniiper

Dude, it's not "Gamesharing" it's "License" sharing. You don't own an actual copy of game code, your essentially renting the game and at any moment Microsoft can simply drop support of them from the console.

I think Sony might be going the same rout, and it's a damn shame and terrible for consumers.

 

[TomWiley]

I remember first reading about all of the restrictive, invasive bullshit Microsoft is trying to cram down our throats and thinking to myself, "Well no one can possibly defend this, right?".

Oh, internet. You never cease to amaze/depress me.

I know right. Wouldn't it be easier if you could just outlaw original opinions?

 

[mKeRix]

3. I just recently went without Internet for 1.5 weeks, not because I didn't have Internet access to my house but because my router broke. After that experience, I can say the mandatory every 24 hour connection would be horrible to have in situations like that. I also understand that getting good Internet isn't a guarantee. For these reasons, I simply cannot forgive Microsoft for this decision unless they get rid of the mandatory connection, especially since most of my time is spent playing singleplayer-only games, with most of the multiplayer being fighting or split-screen games that can be played on one TV.

I'm fully aware of these problems. I'm no big fan of it either and I hope they will change it. But all I can say about that right now is that Major Nelson said Microsoft is listening to the always online concerns - whatever that means.

4. Maybe I missed something, but the last time I checked, the most you could do was turn the entire console off (i.e. the Kinect won't be spying on you when the console is off). I don't expect Microsoft to get involved in the privacy issues people are accusing them of, but at the same time, I don't like the idea of having the Kinect there. I'd imagine too many developers will try to implement it into their games, and the last thing I want is another craze similar to what developers did with the Wii's motion controls.

I think the news kinda drowned in the mass of other news, but you can turn it off completely. I linked an article about that 2 posts earlier I think.

5. It is weaker than the PS4. Not much of a difference, but the PS4 will still be able to pump out a little extra power while still maintaining a consistent framerate. This will likely be more noticeable in exclusives, but it is something you can't ignore either.

Yup, performance will be something we can check out once the console is in the shelves. But with the information now, only the hardware is better. I do think that cloud computing and so on is something important to be considered as well, but that's just something that we won't be able to really judge completely until it's there.

6. I'm buying it for games, not entertainment. You want to know the last time I used the 360 for anything but gaming? Never, that's when. I don't want to pay $500, when most of that money is going to give me an entertainment system, where most of the heavily advertised features will go completely unused. Granted, I doubt the PS4 will be much better in this regard, given the PS3's "It only does everything" slogan, but at least they seem like they are more concerned about games.

If you are and feel like the PS4 is a better choice for you, then that's fine. There are different types of people using consoles, on the one hand there are people like you just wanting to play games, and on the other hand there are people that like watching Netflix and so on. I think that's what made Microsoft do this change to their console, if I remember correctly a lot of the people were using their 360 more as an entertainment and Netflix device than a gaming console to the end.

7. The PS4 controller looks to be an improvement over the PS3, which I actually preferred to the 360's controller. It seems slightly bigger and sturdier, which were the two major advantages that the 360 controller had over the PS3's controller. On the other hand, the Xbone one looks like they just made the 360 one bulkier, which is the last thing it needed.

We are built differently. I hated playing with the PS3 controller, way too small for me, but loved playing with the XBox one. It's great that we have a choice of choosing which controller we can play with best.

8. They both look ugly.

Heh, that's another way to put it. Made me chuckle.

9. I'll take notice of exclusives when the Xbone fixes its other issues. You actually need to have a decent consoles before exclusives mean anything. What good are the games if the console is crap? Not to mention, though the PS4 has fewer exclusives, they are certainly more appealing at this point than the Xbone.

This point is entirely your opinion. I know that many buy their consoles because they like the exclusives.
Liking the exclusives is also up to you, as we like to play different games. I for example am excited for all the new games they announced.

10. Why would I want to pay an extra $100 for a console that is weaker, which puts more emphasis on features on features I don't want, is less convenient, and is made by a company that treats its customers like shit? There is no way this thing will even be worth the money until a massive price drop that takes it below what PS4 is offering.

You won't need to and considering what you told us, you shouldn't either. The XBone is not the console for you, and that's okay.
However, MS certainly doesn't treat their customers like shit. Their customer support is one of the friendliest around in my experience and they help you a lot. Apart from that many events in the scene are sponsored by Microsoft and so on. They care about the people that buy their stuff as well.

 

[Clifford Beasley]

If it's a good console then it doesn't need people defending it. Same goes for the PS4. Also, why are people defending a piece of plastic and wires anyway? Just play on whatever platform you like and drop the needless justifying of your purchases. If you feel the need to validate your opinion so much to others you might want to make sure you aren't just lying to yourself.

 

[fozzy360]

I remember first reading about all of the restrictive, invasive bullshit Microsoft is trying to cram down our throats and thinking to myself, "Well no one can possibly defend this, right?".

Oh, internet. You never cease to amaze/depress me.

I know right. Wouldn't it be easier if you could just outlaw original opinions?

You're just having a hell of a time purposefully misconstruing stuff don't ya?

It's so very refreshing to see these kind of threads that go against the myopic Internet masses and and comes with an original opinion - or rather - a well-founded and not overly biased and jaundiced opinion.

Oh, so if the opinion doesn't agree with yours, then its not worth hearing? As if what you have to say, the brushing off of opposing opinion by claiming they're nothing more than the biased, knee-jerk reactions of the mob, isn't entirely myopic in and of itself.

 

[mKeRix]

I remember first reading about all of the restrictive, invasive bullshit Microsoft is trying to cram down our throats and thinking to myself, "Well no one can possibly defend this, right?".

Oh, internet. You never cease to amaze/depress me.

Gotta hate those people with different opinions.

Edit: bonus points for all of the "this is the future, deal with it" attitudes permeating this discussion. The future is what we, collectively, say it is. If people had enough gumption and sense not to buy XB1, we could easily shape the future of the industry into one that doesn't constantly try to fuck us.

The future of technology that is. Cloud computing is a new trend and a great idea.
Apart from that, the renting model is already being used in so many other successful programs like Spotify, so that I can safely assume it's something that won't just go away like that.

Edit edit: the daily connection requirement is probably a non-issue for me personally. I'm still not okay with it. Why? Because it negatively affects other human beings, and I'm not a twat. And no, it's not as simple as "if you can't reliably connect to internet every day, buy a PS4". If the publishers are making more money off XB1 due to its restrictive features/policies, they will shift support/exclusives to the more profitable console. This will force Sony to either fall behind or adopt similar practices. So yeah, don't pretend like you're not enabling these ridiculously greedy publishers simply because you're not personally affected.

It is as simple as that though.
If you don't think you can use the XBox with internet, don't buy it.
And I never pretended that I'm not enabling them to do more of this stuff. I simply don't care. I even bought SimCity because to me, it was fun. I buy something because I like it, it's my money after all.

This page: http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license specifically calls out "participating retailers" for used games and your own link confirms the need for authentication. It kind of feels like they're giving independent retailers the shaft here, which is a shame, because I buy all my console games from indies; their prices are so much better!

Yeah, it's sort of sad in that way. I can't really talk about that too much since I don't have any small indie stores around in my area, but I see why it would annoy you. Maybe there will be a way to register for Microsoft's system though - that's still left to see.

Also is this the Escapist article you meant? http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/124848-Xbox-One-DRM-Wont-Deter-Witcher-3-Studio Because I'm not sure your interpretation of this article was quite the same as mine.

Yeah, it is. I used the information in a different way than it may have been meant in the post and I know that how the used games fee system works isn't announced yet, but it was already said to be optional, so I'll just roll with that for now.

In the end I think it comes down to whether or not you think the new conveniences are worth tolerating the restrictions for. The 24 hour check-in seems a little too strict, but everything else is more or less what I'd expect from a system that allows you to download games that you've bought physically.

Exactly! That's mostly what I wanted to say as well.

I can't help but think the used games thing could be handled just a tad better, though; maybe allow you to de-register your serial code manually and put it back into the database? There might be something I'm not aware of or an exploit I'm not seeing that makes that impossible, but it would be the ideal situation, I think. Still, what they have is more generous than, say, Steam, where you can't trade games at all. Steam does let me play offline though!

That would be another idea that would be worth a thought.
I can imagine that there will be accounts that you can give your game licenses to for money, as that should most likely work with the game sharing/giving feature announced. Maybe that could help us out to prevent the used games fee (for publishers actually using it)?

Still, for me, these are the kinds of inconveniences that are driving me away from PC gaming. The only thing keeping me here is the fact that I prefer mouse and keyboard controls and that I love the PC's exclusives. The conveniences of Steam are slowly being outweighed by the restrictions and I can't help but feel that the Xbone has fewer conveniences and more restrictions when you consider my situation (spotty internet, poor). I think the best thing Microsoft can do for their PR is ensure that game prices compete with PC game prices. Many PC gamers will only tolerate the fact that they're only buying the publisher's permission to play the game, rather than the game itself is because they can get so many games for so cheap.

Yeah, if they'd try to do it more like Steam with their endless amount of sales, people wouldn't mind too much I guess.

If the Xbone's features outweigh it's restrictions for you, then buy it. Your buying it won't affect my own experience... I hope :']

It shouldn't, haha!

Dude, it's not "Gamesharing" it's "License" sharing. You don't own an actual copy of game code, your essentially renting the game and at any moment Microsoft can simply drop support of them from the console.

I think Sony might be going the same rout, and it's a damn shame and terrible for consumers.

Microsoft won't just drop support for a game, that would ruin their market. And apart from that, a game disc is a license as well, just a physical one. I fail to see the disadvantages of just giving one of your friends a copy digitally and instantly no matter where on the world he is instead of having to give him the disc.

 

[dragongit]

I have no doubt the Xbone can be a decent console and maybe will have some nice exclusives (that won't eventually be on the PC) but it really comes down to the bottom line in my instance. The PS4 costs 100 bucks less then the Xbone, that's nearly 2 extra games I can buy at launch instead. I personally would have no desire for the Kinect because the way my room is set up, there isn't enough room to justify using it, and I don't want to spend 100 extra bucks just to have voice command. I can select an option just fine using the directional pad and a button.

If both are going to be roughly the same in power, maybe even the PS4 slightly more with GDDR5 ram used for the processing of games instead of DDR3 being used to process the operation system of the Xbone. That 100 bucks less is all the justification I need to avoid the Xbox until the machine itself goes down in price massivly, which could be up to 3 years. By which point I'd still be better off not getting it in favor of just buying games or updating my PC.

 

[IpponDropkick]

snip

I'd like to say up front, in your opening paragraph, you make a point that I'm tired of hearing people make. "You don't have to be any console." Yes, we could divorce ourselves from console gaming. Certainly. But if you go to gaming websites, you're going to find people who don't want to do that. Plus, why WOULD we? It's an irritating distraction. It tries to frame the issue in a really ridiculous way.

Also, I don't think anybody thinks a failed Xbox One would seriously be the end of microsoft. They're one of the most profitable companies in the world. They could sell very, very badly and make it up easily in other divisions.

But:

1. No. This isn't true. It is a wholly different approach to the way they do what they do. This isn't locking off part of the game, or making it so you can online play multiplayer with a code or whatever sceheme. This is wholly locking off the game unless you buy it through a traditional big box retailer for the most part. On the rare occassions that I buy used games, I'm a digital man mostly, I buy them through a little mom and pop store in my town. I'll miss it. Plus, I like it being MY GAME. I like being able to do with it as I please. I want to be able to buy and sell as I wish. I'm a consumer, I've paid my money. If I haven't? Someone out there has. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a used game to begin with.

2. There's a "some people say" in the first paragraph which is sneaky, sneaky and a wee bit dishonest. Again though: It's MY game. I spent seventy bucks on it. Let me do with it what I will. Let me try out my friends games. One of the key things that drove my purchases this year was that my friends all tended to play the same multiplayer games, so I could borrow their copy and try it out for a few days to see if I wanted to get in on the fun. This no longer exists on Xbox One. With all of us being very busy people with full time jobs, it's not like we can just pop over each other's houses for gaming time.

3. Your title is "Why Xbone is a good console". This is the biggest dealbreaker for a lot of people. You can't defend it.

4. I was never as worried about the kinect as others were. I had absolutely no interest in it, because my gaming room is too small to use one but I got the sense most games would be controlled traditionally anyway. I agree wth you on this one.

5. Don't care about the hardware. I didn't this generation either, honestly. The consoles looked and played the same to me. I will say I think that A) We're a long way from cloud computing and B) We're an even longer way away from the average consumer being comfortable with the idea of a significant part of their experience being controlled by systems they could lose access to it at any time.

6. I don't need any of this and I don't understand Xbox TV at all. My xbox is already hooked up to my TV. For all intents and purposes, they're the same machine already. They're linked together. I can press a button and be watching my TV already.

7. Sure, but I think now you're getting into issues that aren't really what people are upset about. They could copy the same controller and I'd be happy.

8. Agreed.

9. Sure.

10. How is the console price the same for both? 100 dollars in the difference is not the same. Not even a little true. If they make the kinect part of the experience, then it doesn't get judged as a special bonus. It's part of the machine. As for paying for PSN, it's no big deal to me. I was an Xbox Live guy this year so buying another card every little while won't change much.

Essentially, I think the big issues here are sharing, used games and the online requirement. I always got the feeling people were being a little tongue in cheek about the kinect. I think the rest aren't a very big deal. People would get by with them and I don't think people are piling on the way you think about those.

 

[rob_simple]

It's nice that the OP tried to be as objective as possible --I think you almost succeeded, for what it's worth-- but absolutely anyone making excuses for Microsoft at this point, and that is all they are, still comes off as a battered spouse trying to reason why they stay with their abusive dickhead of a partner.

'But Microsoft can change!'
'He only hurts us because he loves us!'
'Sure I'm still allowed to go see my friends; I just need to let him know where I am at all times and stop and come home as soon as he says.'

Okay, I think I dragged that metaphor on long enough.

 

[Elijah Newton]

2. Game sharing:
UPDATE: Mixed this up a little bit, but thankfully [user]9thRequiem[/user] clarified it:

This is two separate things.
One is that up to 10 friends can be in your "Family", and can play your games whenever they like, though each game can only be played by one friend at a time. This is "Sharing" games. I have no idea why this feature isn't widely loved - Share games, with close friends, without needing a disc. If Microsoft went down the Sony route and made a snarky video, maybe things would be clearer.
Separately, there's "Giving" games, which can be done to anyone who's been on your friends list for at least 30 days and can only be done once. After giving someone a game, you no longer have it. This is a much less useful feature, but still beats Steam's game giving.

As an ideal, I'm reasonably intrigued but I just don't see reality measuring up. Even if - even if - there is the stipulation that all the servers will work wonderously and never fail enough to impact user's ability to enjoy products services they paid for, then the problem becomes the potential for companies to change the terms of service. You don't own anything with the Microsoft model, as I understand it. The frustration of having a favorite server shut down and losing multiplayer capability for a game? That'd be nothing next to finding your entire library zotted, and I don't see that as something which wouldn't happen by a company that's so casually dismissive of backwards compatability as Microsoft.

The XBone will grab a lot of the casuals, while the PS4 currently is mostly bought by "hardcore gamers" as you could say.

I find this a pretty fascinating reversal of earlier generation of consoles launches. Playstation 2 was, in my circle, the friendlier / more youth oriented console while the xBox was for the hardcore ( mostly pc converts). Totally anecdotal, your milage may vary, etc etc, but will be interesting to see if it'll be born out. IMHO I agree that the XBone is aimed at a more casual market and that it is the pursuit of this which has resulted in the policies which are stirring up so much debate.