Why the XBone is a good console

[nevarran]

The whole "10 family members" thing, sounds great to me.
I live in Italy and most of my friends live in Bulgaria. So right now I can't give them any games, DRM or not.
See, if I can share my entire library with them, now that's something.

So, if my 10 people doesn't need to verify their kinship with me via blood test or something, I'm in.

 

[Something Amyss]

I expected more apologetics threads by now. Let's se what this one has to offer.

1. Used games:

They're specifically enabling a loathed practice. That's still a bad thing. It's also unnecessary.

2. Game sharing:

Someone already pointed out the limitations here. The inherent problem is that they've made a wholly unnecessary leap in blocking normal sharing in favour of control-freak levels of bossiness, and you're trying to justify it because at least when they're done limiting you they opted to toss you a bone. It's like someone giving you candy after they robbed you.

3. 24h offline time:

The biggest problem here is that a lot of people don't know when they're going to be offline for more than 24 hours. I mean, I've got friends literally not connected to the internet, but there are those who will experience connection problems. And there's also Microsoft itself.

I don't know how long you've been a 360 gamer, but I date back almost to launch. I didn't have Gold back then, but I was an owner and purchased many games through their online. If you were an owner in the early days and you swapped out your console, even through Microsoft as part of a warranty issue, you were relegated to always online status. I spent a lot of time unable to play my purchased games because Microsoft couldn't keep their act together while my internet connection was fine. I could, for example, still play ONLINE on my PS3. Not that I had any games I wanted to, but I was able to.

I still have two XBox downloaded games (and one expansion) I haven't been able to play since the first "license transfer." One of them happened less than a week after I purchased it. Microsoft doesn't offer refunds and I fought with them for weeks before I finally gave up.

If you want to trust these guys that implicitly, go for it. I don't.

4. Evil spying Kinect:

This one is true, and follows the old adage "never let the facts get in the way of a good rant."

Microsoft failed to clarify this fast enough, and I'm sure the news was buried under the hysteria. Still, you CAN turn Kinect off.

5. Hardware:

I haven't seen any complaints about the hardware beyond PC gamers who mock both consoles. And honestly, the specs are about comparable to what I've go ready to install on my PC. I feel those complaints are kind of valid, but if people are bashing one and not the other, there is something wrong.

However, if you think "the cloooooooud" is something only Microsoft can use, then all I can say is "lolwot"

6. Features:

They're both entertainment devices. I'm betting the only noteworthy difference will be the TV passthrough, which is not all that big a feature. You still need a cable box and such, after all. They didn't make an all-in-one device, they made an add-on that nobody really needs. I'm not entirely sure the demand is there. This is why they get mocked.

Also, for the price of the XBone, you can get an actual small PC and have real PVR functions.

Emulating a PC is stupid, IMO, and I mean no offense by that. They've stripped away the standard benefits of a console and given us a PC experience for a PC price without the positives PC gaming offers.

7. Controller:

The controller actually looks quite awesome. I can't justify attacks on it. I'd have to hold one to know whether or not it WORKS good, but based on what I've got, I like it. I hope they make a version of PC.

8. Design:

They're both ugly. I don't particularly hold that against them, though.

9. Games/Exclusives:

I'm curious as to how this plays out. We've already got Smartglass-only content for DR3, and I'm wondering how much other stuff will play out that way. I'm curious to see if Sony plays the same game.

Still, the exclusives aren't mind-blowing on either end.

10. Price:

Since the price is essentially the same for both systems, including something a lot of people don't want and charging more for it is a dumb idea.

The amount of pre-orders is basically the same for both (according to Amazon).

Just a note: Sales ranks are not actual sales figures. The difference between rank 1 and 1 could be 1 sale or 1 trillion. Saying that they're about the same because One is #2 is inaccurate and disingenuous. I'd also note that the PS4 takes up both the #1 and #3 slots. That should be veeeeery telling here.

The XBone will grab a lot of the casuals

So you assume and Microsoft hopes.

 

[V da Mighty Taco]

Snip of the Colossus

The OP is wrong in many ways, but you addressed most of them here so there's no need for me to repeat on these topics. However, there are two other points from the OP that need addressing:

As Yahtzee already said, you don't have to buy any console, but people feel like they do, so that's what causes these problems. That divides sites into either a PS4 fanbase or an XBone fanbase, because others just don't want to join a thread where people are going wild about the other console.

This is an assumption if I've ever seen one. Many a PC gamer such as myself are also paying close attention to the next console generation. Whether it be to see if a console can win them over, seeing how much many multiplatform games will be held back by the next consoles due to consoles often being the standard for what AAA games are designed to run on, or to keep an eye on any anti-consumer policies that console manufacturers or publishers might try to standardize; you can be certain that they are also paying close attention to what happens here.

There's also the fact that most people realize that there are more than two options, with many people planning to shift towards PC gaming after seeing these consoles. There's also the new Wii U audience thanks to E3, even if they're most likely smaller than the other groups.

Long story short, playing this off as if most people are only picking two sides is blatantly wrong no matter how one looks at it.

It changes nothing if you say Microsoft is doomed a thousand times, look at SimCity - everyone said they're not going to buy it, but it still sold well.

You have no idea about why exactly SimCity sold well, do you? Like with Diablo 3 and especially Aliens: Colonial Marines, people expected them to be good games and bought them on day-1 or preordered them before it actually came to light how bad and non-functional they were. By the time people realized how non-functional / misleading those games were, it was already too late and the sale was already made. SimCity and Diablo 3 in particular could not be returned either, so people were stuck with them after purchase.

Yes, SimCity sold well. However, it sold almost entirely off of pre-release hype and would not sold nearly as well if people knew about the issues they ended up facing beforehand. There's a reason many people swore off of preorders after playing it or A:CM.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

Nope nope nope nope nope.

The used games thing is horrible. They directly set the precedent that you don't own games. They have said games are a service not a product. Having the system available to publishers is completely evil. It encourages them to use said system.

I'm also getting pretty sick of people defending the Xbone with anecdotal crap. [i/]Well I don't share games that much, so it just isn't a problem![/i] But it is a problem. It's a problem for many people, but most importantly, it's a problem of principle. YOU don't own your games. You get to do with your games what we ALLOW you to do with your games.
Same with the online. This is a MASSIVE problem for many MANY people and just because you have decent internet doesn't make it a decent console.

You also failed to mention another huge complaint: The complete lack of backwards compatibility. If you want your arcade games, play on 360? Fuck you Microsoft.

This console needs to be shunned. It needs to fail. Microsoft is tiptoeing forward more and more, taking more and more control away from consumers. The more these practices are accepted, the further the companies will go. The Xbone is a LEAP in that direction and it must be met by resistance.

I will give you the point on the controller. I really don't get why anyone would complain about that. It's basically just a sleeker 360 controller.

 

[Maximum Bert]

It's not pure mob mentality, and I'm completely fine with anyone wanting buy a PS4. But a lot of what is going right now is indeed just an angry mob declaring the PS4 and Sony as the "holy angel of gamers".
The XBox one introduce new things and also new restrictions, but on top of that a lot of new advantages.
And you know, if the games are amazing, the console details don't matter. I feel like I'm kinda misusing Yahtzee's opinion here, but consoles are for games. If they are good games for a console, people will buy it.

Please list all these advantages because games wise I see very little they have just upset what everyone expects of a console i.e easy game access and given very little in return, now there are hoops you have to jump through. As for people praising Sony thats just because of how bad Microsoft messed up completely misreading what people wanted and expected while Sony just went more or less business as usual.

Feel free to not buy an XBone, nobody is forcing you to do so.
And it won't, I'm pretty sure about that. We've been through this so many times, and the casual customer simply doesn't are, because for them, it works. That's all they want, it working and games. They don't care about how bad the restrictions may be according to your opinion.

Thanks I wont and I never said they were also I dont remember going through anything also its working and has games lol thats the bare minimum people dont see that as anything its what they expect if it didnt do either of those it wouldnt even be a games console. If that is all people wanted then they wouldnt care which platform they got now would they, and its not my opinion that they dont care about restrictions its my opinion that many do care and it will factor into their choice of console when weighing up the pros and cons. Also they do tend to care about price so offering a more restrictive less powerful console with almost no benefits over it competition and in fact many negatives may effect the average customer after all a console is not an impulse buy many people do actually research and ask before buying one.

See, a lot of people don't want a Kinect, so it's irksome that even if you want an Xbone but don't want a Kinect, it's included in the package. If you describe it as an extra bonus thing they're throwing in then it sounds better, but if you want to use the Kinect to justify the $100 price difference, it just highlights the fact that you're being made to purchase this unwanted accessory upfront. Plus I doubt anyone who gets a PS4 is just dying to get whatever new version of Move that might be coming out.

I didnt say this please amend the quote

I know that they're forcing it onto you. I don't work for Microsoft, so I can't really tell you for sure why they chose that way. I explained my theory in the first post, but I see that it still upsets people. The Kinect is really just something that makes things more fun and more interactive. It's like the new Wii U controller.
It's no decision that I'd consider as particularly well solved, but I understand in a way. I don't think customers will care about the higher price too much, at least as of now, but that's something we'll only be able to see when it's out. Apart from that, prices are something that can change, so there's that.

I think the Kinect bubble burst long ago unless this one is flat out amazing I reckon it too will just get ignored as just another gimmick also like I said I think many will care about the higher price especially for something they dont really want but yes prices can change and Microsoft need to at least match Sony TBH. As for kinect making things more fun for most games it just seemed to make things less responsive and more annoying it was a gimmick just like the Wii controller the only difference is Nintendo got their first and reaped the benefits while after everyone realised it was mostly shit Microsoft and Sony came in with their sorry efforts. Microsoft managed to catch the last spark of attention with the Kinnect but that died fast and I have a feeling people were hoping that it and move stayed dead.

Really all Microsoft had to do was say heres the new console its more powerful it dosent shit itself and die if you look at it wrong and the gold fee is dropped not only did they not do that they actually added shit nobody wanted or asked for just for their own benefit and then hiked up the price. Also they are taking the piss with listing some of the plus points just look at this from their website on how licensing works on the Xbox One (because its so fucked up it needs an explanation now)

[quote/]Share access to your games with everyone inside your home: Your friends and family, your guests and acquaintances get unlimited access to all of your games. Anyone can play your games on your console--regardless of whether you are logged in or their relationship to you.[/quote]

Wow thanks Microsoft I mean fkin ay now anyone can come round to my house and play my games on my console thats amazing this is the future except its what we have been doing since the dawn of home gaming anyway but I guess it good the Kinnect dosent ring the police or something because your friend is playing your game.

There is little reason to get a Xbox One as a console over any of its competitors including a PC except for the games but unlike previously where the games were the be all and end all now its hmmm are the games good enough to outweigh the large negatives and make no mistake this is the console with more negatives than almost any before and that shouldnt even be a factor you shouldnt even have to have that debate with yourself.

The Xbox One is bad no matter how you dress it up and people are letting Microsoft know. Defend it all you want but they have really damaged their public image with this console and it could have been so easily sidestepped as well. People dont like restrictions unless the payoff is worth it and I think many have made clear they dont see the pay off as worth it with the Xbox One.

It could still sell well but that will be largely inspite of its features rather than because of them.

 

[JetFury]

Anti consumer policies make the console unattractive right from the beginning. I won't support a system that's gonna chip away at us. No matter what games are offered

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

In the end I think it comes down to whether or not you think the new conveniences are worth tolerating the restrictions for. The 24 hour check-in seems a little too strict, but everything else is more or less what I'd expect from a system that allows you to download games that you've bought physically.

I think the issue for many people is that most of us believe they made the downloading games to the harddrive thing just so they can have the excuse for the 24 hour check in. Faster games can always be argued, but I had lightning fast reading from discs and I had abnormally slow load times from games installed. So this has to be proven to a few before we can write this off as just a bad design. For most, I'd say, it really just seems intentional just for the check-in.

Still, for me, these are the kinds of inconveniences that are driving me away from PC gaming. The only thing keeping me here is the fact that I prefer mouse and keyboard controls and that I love the PC's exclusives. The conveniences of Steam are slowly being outweighed by the restrictions and I can't help but feel that the Xbone has fewer conveniences and more restrictions when you consider my situation (spotty internet, poor). I think the best thing Microsoft can do for their PR is ensure that game prices compete with PC game prices. Many PC gamers will only tolerate the fact that they're only buying the publisher's permission to play the game, rather than the game itself is because they can get so many games for so cheap.

As a PC gamer as well (now primarily as my fourth 360 RRoD'ed...), I can say that I have a good half of my games as DRM free. They aren't the big names... well a few are. And some had the choice to play by its self or join with Steam. I've chosen to join with steam because I somewhat like the library being in on place. And the patching system is ok.

If the Xbone's features outweigh it's restrictions for you, then buy it. Your buying it won't affect my own experience... I hope :']

It will. If the Xbox One does even moderately well, next consoles will have more restrictions and the like. This is the testing ground to finally take ownership away from the gamers. Anyone willing to blithely be ok with that are pushing their agenda.

The simple question I asked myself was - what am I getting that the PS4 hasn't got for the extra $100? From what I can see, all I'm getting is additional inconvenience.

A truthful Microsoft slogan would be "Xbox One! Pay More to be Less of an Owner!"

I'll keep saying this anyone who will listen. Look up the Microsoft Zune [http://www.zdnet.com/grab-and-backup-your-zune-hd-apps-today-microsoft-changing-services-7000003508/]. When they discontinued it, they took away features. Features you paid for. For really no reason. They never explained it, and I don't think they will ever care to. Are people really willing to pay 500 dollars for less control of a console from a company that's already shown it will take away from their consumers without a second thought?

 

[Chappy0]

I would dispute your points but Dexter (as Kaulen stated) already did that perfectly.

But, one more interesting thing that I learned today concerning the Xbone; it'll only working in a chosen few countries upon it's release. Source, Xbox One pre-order product information guide: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/pre-order-xbox-one/disclaimer

Xbox One Requirements:

Requires broadband internet (ISP fees apply), a Microsoft account and an account on Xbox Live in an Xbox One-supported Xbox Live country/region, and 720p or higher HDMI-compatible TV. To receive live TV via broadcast or cable, supported receiver device (television tuner or cable/satellite set top box) with HDMI output and HDMI cable required (all sold separately).


Chosen countries:

Xbox One-Supported Xbox Live Countries

Australia
Austria
Belgium
Brazil
Canada
Denmark
Finland
France
Germany
Ireland
Italy
Mexico
Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Russia
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
United Kingdom
United States



So yeah, I'm not seeing a lot of evidence of the Xbone being a good console.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

But is Sony or Xbox intentionally bricked their machines right this instant? I'd be ticked, but at the same time I OWN my game discs. Eventually something would come along to allow me to play those discs again, either a PC program or a "retro" console. They're mine, and I own the code thats one them forever.

If the industry is moving towards "You don't own games, you own a license" I might just leave video games all together. I'm not wasting cash on a medium I can't own physical copies of.

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

Almost every defence of the Xbone I've seen basically boils down to arguing that the various arbitrary restrictions imposed on the system won't affect me as much as I might think.

What no one has yet done is explain how they are going to benefit me, or anyone except Microsoft.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

Anyone else suspects that this dude works for Microsoft? He kinda gives off that vibe. It really takes guts to defend anti-consumer policies by saying that they won't affect us negatively. He doesn't have anything positive to say about it when you really think about it. He's just trying desperately to make it seem not so bad.

 

[Brotha Desmond]

The reasons why I won't be getting an Xbox one.

1) The price. $500 dollars is a bit step, especially since I will most likely be getting two games with the system.

2) Required Kinect. They say you won't be able to turn on the X1 without it.

3) DRM. While my internet may be fine I don't trust Microsoft enough for the games to work. Cases like Defiance, Diablo III, and Sim city where you couldn't get into the game due to server problems.

4) The games. The only exclusive I really cared about was InFamous second son. Most of the games shown at Microsoft's conference were either multiplatform or only timed exclusives. If I can play the same games on a slightly cheaper system with slightly better specs then that is what I'll go with.

5) You won't be able to play your games next gen. When Microsoft cuts off service for the X1 you won't be able to access your games anymore.

6)A lot of the features doesn't concern me. The T.V. elements, skype, etc are all things that I won't be using so why would I pay for them.

In the end the PS4 is more like the system that I was looking for (despite the touch pad feature being stupid).

 

[Tony2077]

other then halo there really isn't anything i care about that aren't multiplaform or will never be on the xbox since for some reason they don't like to put the jrpgs i like on it

heck my 360 is more like a paperweight right now

 

[TwoSidesOneCoin]

I read through half of the first page and then said fuck it, only thing I'll add to this is how I love the fact that the people who don't mind the xbox and it's "advantages/features" are saying the PS4 backers are all some sort of mob mentality creature, while the PS4 backers are accusing the Xbox supporters of being M$ reps.

Loving it, but better things await. Also, I'm in PS4 camp for this one. Those advantages are not good enough for me.

 

[Saltyk]

Wait, are there people trying to say that EA won't use the used games fees, because they are "against online passes"? Oh, come on. I have more faith in EA than that. They will totally use that feature and then claim it isn't the same thing. They are just using the available infrastructure. That way EA gets to pass the blame to Microsoft AND Microsoft gets to say that you can't blame them as they aren't forcing anyone to use it.

I prefer the Sony version. Yes, developers can still create online passes, but it's far more honest. It's the developer's doing that, not Sony. There's no wiggle room or blame dodging.

For the record, I have plenty of friends and coworkers who aren't checking forums out, but the minute you start describing the features, or they look them up themselves, they instantly turn off of a machine with so many restrictions.

Also, I for one, am not part of some mob. The instant I heard what Microsoft said at their reveal I was against their policies. They are terrible fucking policies!

 

[Brotha Desmond]

It's so very refreshing to see these kind of threads that go against the myopic Internet masses and and comes with an original opinion - or rather - a well-founded and not overly biased and jaundiced opinion.

Believe it or not even the majority of people can be right sometimes.

 

[MrHide-Patten]

As Yahtzee said at last Escapist Expo about people being apologetic to Nintendo's fallacies; "Why am I hearing the lord works in mysterious ways?"

To say you have exclusives and actually have them is another thing entirely. At least the PS4 has the standout InFAMOUS Second Son, and the Xbox One has... the Halo TV show?