Why the XBone is a good console

[Krixous]

1. Used games:
The blockade of selling used games is entirely up to the publisher, so are the fees. What Microsoft has done here is an official way of what already happened before. Remember the Online Passes? That's just like that. Nobody has has to use them. They can. Now, if EA would decide to be a dick and use it - what would happen? They'd do it on every platform. They won't be interested in holding up Sony's image of the messiah console, they want their money. So afaik, it doesn't matter. The possibilities are there on both platforms.

It... really isn't. The entire system is made so you can't trade physical copies of games without giving them to specific 'partnered retailers' who are going to be Gamestop, Game, EB Games, etc, etc. This is not an optional thing. It's the only reason the 24 hour phone home thing exists. Yeah, nobody has to use online passes because Microsoft have built a wonderful, closed garden where publishers can screw over consumers without having to lift a finger.

2. Game sharing:
After Sony's admittedly hilarious video about sharing games (which was also perceived as childish by some, but I think these little slaps are fun in a way) people have been saying that you won't be able to share games on the XBone. Well, yes and no. You can still share games, you can give your game to up to 10 of your friends without even having to hand them your disc, they'll just have it on their account and can easily download and play it right away. The only thing here is, you need to have them on your friends list for at least 30 days and you can only give them them every game once. But honestly, I don't think that's too limiting. I wouldn't hand out my games to people that I just met either. And if you know them for a while and they just made a new account, then 30 days isn't bad either. Apart from that, I've never seen anyone rent a game twice. If you like it after playing it, you usually just buy it.

So what you're saying is, these needless limitations aren't especially limiting because 'they're not too limiting'? Compared to the PS4 and the WiiU, it's still absolutely absurd. It means you can't sell your games unless you trade them into a big retailer, and the whole giving friends your games without handing them over is brought about by this limitation and it's still incredibly imperfect.

3. 24h offline time:
This is a point I can't say much about. I can think of many reasons why they'd do such a thing, but there's nothing I really want to defend here. For me it's no problem at all, I like my games and consoles (and PC) for the online multiplayer, but I see why it would bother people. On the other hand, I'm sure this is nothing they couldn't change. It happened before, so you can hope. If you know you'll be offline for longer than a day, then definitely don't buy the XBone yet though.

You may have a perfectly stable and fine internet connection, but remember Diablo 3 and Sim City? The issue is not the consumer's internet, it's the servers belonging to Microsoft and other publishers. What if there was a Sony-style mass hack? A whole month (or more!) without being able to play your games because of noxious, unnecessary, corporate serving architecture.

4. Evil spying Kinect:
This wrong, just wrong. It has been confirmed that the Kinect can be turned off completely long ago, and you won't be spied. The Kinect itself is also a fairly useful tool, I own a Kinect 1 and there are some fun games for it out there, and it adds functionality by voice commands etc. I know people don't like being forced to get a product, but it's entirely possible that there will be an "Arcade" edition like with the 360, which is cheaper and delivered without Kinect. "Why did Microsoft do this in the first place?" you could ask now. To prevent segmentation. This way everyone has the same setup and games can be designed in that way. Apart from that I believe that if people don't try something new over time, things can't evolve.

Can't be completely turned off. Needs to be plugged in and will still react to certain voice commands. Assuming there will be an arcade edition is, well, an assumption.

5. Hardware:
The hardware isn't too different, really. You have about the same specs in both consoles, if I trust some of the other posts I read the XBone is slightly worse, but that's nothing you could notice. Apart from that, Microsoft has the whole cloud computing thing going, and while you might start laughing at me now, this is the future and even Sony knows it.

PS4 is estimated to be 50 percent more powerful than the Xbox One. [http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-spec-analysis-xbox-one] Consumers won't notice or care, but developers surely will. And this isn't like the PS3 where it was more powerful but came bundled with a whole bunch of programming headaches - both systems have the same architecture, meaning that the only way a multiplat game could be worse on the PS4 is if it is deliberately gimped.

As for cloud computing, ha. Hahahahahaha. Ha. No. Microsoft have yet to show anything intensive running on cloud computing, and so far it appears to be an excuse to bundle always-online into games. And if cloud does blossom into a big thing, Sony have Gaikai. So they'll be able to use cloud and have that 50 percent extra power.

7. Controller:
For some reason I also found some people complaining about the controller. I can't really understand that, for me the XBox controller has always been the best one on the market right now. Wasn't able to hold a PS4 controller so far, but the PS3 ones were none I could really play with.

Controller looks great. Can't wait to use it with my PC. All the reports coming from E3 say the PS4 controller feels considerably better than the PS3 one too. Not hard, but nice to see progress.

8. Design:
The simple design (even though it really shouldn't matter) is used so it can fit anywhere in your living room. It's elegant and I like it. Your choice. Although both consoles don't look too different.

PS4 looks like a PS2. Xbox One looks like a laserdisc player.

9. Games/Exclusives:
This is anyone's game. If you like the PS4's exclusives, go buy that. If you like the XBone's games (of which there are more announced at the moment), go buy that.

I fail to see how this is a point in MS's favour. They will have Xbox exclusives? Yay?

10. Price:
I know, I know, money doesn't grow on trees. However, the console price is essentially the same for both. What makes up the other 100 dollars are the extra things in the package, like the Kinect, that you'd have to purchase separately for the PS4. And Gold doesn't count as an argument either, Microsoft and Sony both do the paying for multiplayer now. And so far, Microsoft's servers seem more powerful (waiting for statement on Sony's side), and they've been that way in the past as well.

The console price is not 'essentially the same'. Not even remotely. You can't say 'Oh it comes with the Kinect so that's why it costs more! Really it costs $399.' What an utterly baffling argument. Is there currently even a hint of the Xbox One coming without the Kinect at any point? Nope, so it costs 100 dollars more to the consumer. You don't just subtract money from a price because something in the box adds to that overall price. You're just reaching at this point.

As for PSPlus vs Xbox Live, PSPlus costs less than gold, has better features than gold. Microsoft have so kindly graced Live subscribers with Halo 3 and AssCreed 2 now, a game that's six years old and a game that's four years old. How kind of them. PS4 also allows watching of any apps like Netflix and Flixster without a PSPlus subscription, unlike the Xbox One.

you are a intelligent and awesome man i could'nt have said it better myself and I wouldnt have had nearly as nice puncuation

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

Yes, yes, praise Microsoft and their shitty business practices that screw over the consumer.

1. Used games:

1. Actually, Microsoft GAVE their power to the publishers so they could pretend to be blameless. Whatever the publishers do with that power, MS are equally responsible.

2. Game sharing:

This is needlessly complicated. The only reason it's like this is sot hey can enforce the used game crap. Some people may prefer this method of sharing and some the other so i's entirely preference I guess

3. 24h offline time:

This is here to ensure that you never actually OWN your games and that Microsoft can turn them off whenever they damn well please. This also helps them with their used game scheme.

4. Evil spying Kinect:

Perfect timing with the whole NSA scandal.
Not gonna believe shit until they allow us to unplug it.

5. Hardware:

Yeah because it didn't turn out t be a heap of bullshit with EA did it? Remember that little chestnut that no one likes to talk about? Well not anyone in the industry.

6. Features:

Features are nice.
However they shouldn't lose sight of what the Xbox originally IS. A gaming machine. Whcih they have apparently with all the crap we're having to wade through.

7. Controller:

Completely subjective and pointless

8. Design:

It's a gigantic VHS. It's the most inelegant console I've ever seen.

9. Games/Exclusives:

While this may be true, why are there a few of MS's exclusives announced for both their console AND the PC? What stopped the devs from making PS4 ports? Smells of dodgey business practices to me.

10. Price:

haha kinect. Trust me, very few people actually WANT that "extra". As for servers things remain to be seen.

The Rest

No company is an "angel" we know that.

But I don't see Sony SCREWING their customers and every turn, and I don't see Sony's Executives being complete and total fuckfaces either. They're treating you and everyone else like shit and you're just rolling over and taking it. As much as people would like to try and make the last few months look the same for both companies, they're not.
MICROSOFT are the ones trying to fuck everyone over, not Sony.
The end.

 

[lawrie001]

I have to say I am shocked people are defending microsoft for this blatant sign that they do not give a crap about there customers. They have pretty much shown they do not care about you as a customer, only that you give them money, the 24 hour check in seems like a minor inconvience but say their servers went down or you had a internet black out, you are no unable to use the $500 console and various games you have paid for, for who knows how long.

Its the same reasons why I have not brought Simcity or diablo 3, unless the online only is to enhance the gameplay then it should not exist. Case in point MMORPGs require online connection to play because without the human players in the world, it wouldn't be an enjoyable gaming experience (imagine going on WoW, GW2 etc and no ones online....thats boredom. However games like diablo and simcity should have been single player games with multiplayer capability but no the companies wanted more control over there consumers and gave pitiful excuses (diablo for the real cash auction house which they now regret and simcity for server processing making the game play quicker and easier...except when hacked and taken offline it actually ran faster).

Also the attitude of the microsoft executives in response to real consumer worries and criticisms is appalling, they do not give a flying shit if people do not have stable internet or the fact that large demographics have slow internet, case in point the last couple of comments like "well you wouldn't buy a hover just because of power cuts" shows how out of touch they are with their player base. On the whole internet thing, we have had the internet for a few decades at most, broadband a couple if that and they expect the infrastructure for that service to be on par with electricity which we have had for at least to my knowledge two centuries, now that is beyond all manners of stupidity and ignorance.

I am a pc gamer but my roots began in consoles with the SNES and sega genesis (up to the gamecube) but the recent consoles have just kept disappointing me in so many ways that I will not buy any new generation until something actually shows me that these companies give a damn about me. (btw I know steam isn't perfect with the fact you cant sell back "used" games etc but at least I can play it offline and they give more then a crap bout there player base).

 

[bug_of_war]

Snip

You're not wrong that the Xbox One is a good console, it is actually quite good, provided you're able to easily use the thing. My main problem is that the features it has have little swaying power over me because I cannot use all of them and it is more expensive than the PS4. For example:

1. Used games, while not a huge deal I do remember a time where all I could afford was used games, even if it had an online pass (I got Arkham City pre owned and it was still cheaper than brand new).

3. 24h offline time, with the exception of the hour in which it has to check in with the internet which in my scenario is not an ideal console. I don't hook my consoles up to the internet for multiple reasons, it's difficult, I live in Australia, and if I want to play a games multiplayer more than the single player I'll get it for my computer.

6. Features, the entertainment features that come with it run into the above problem for the most part. Also, even if the above problem wasn't an issue I live in Australia, I can't utilize Netflix and I don't have any care for the NFL. As for Skype and Facebook and all those other globally accessed web sites, why would I need an Xbox One when I can comfortably access the websites already using my computer/laptop.

10. Price, this is just coming back to the whole "I live in Australia" issue, but it's still a valid reason as to why the PS4 is more desirable for me. The Xbox One costs $599 whilst the Playstation 4 costs $549, it's a 50 dollar difference, but at least with the Playstation 4 I can utilize all of it's features. Why would I pay an extra $50 dollars when I can't use a majority of the Xbox One's features?

 

[TomWiley]

That piece of hardware is going to dictate how you use your product,when you use it,it's going to force you to check in like someone on parole,and has a built in camera that can record everything you do and there is no way you can turn it off.

So no this is not exaggerated and the Kinect spying thing is not false,people have a right to be pissed and if you don't like it then leave the thread.

Alright, hold up just a second here. What if, and yes this is a big if, you could actually TURN OFF the Kinect at anytime, making it impossible for Microsoft so spy on you while you're playing CoD? Would that do anything for you?

Because it would undermine the entire reason you're pissed to begin with, wouldn't it?

That's the point you can't turn it off because it's built into the system,if you try to turn the Kinect 2.0 off then you won't be able to use the Xbone.Also I'm not buying it because I'm getting a 3DS this holiday season but I take privacy concerns really seriously and I'm uncomfortable with the fact that the Xbone will record a person's every move.

Alright, then I got great news for you! You can turn it off!

http://www.gamespot.com/features/xbox-one-microsoft-talks-used-games-always-on-6408725/?tag=Topslot;Slot1

So yeah, while the Kinect must be plugged in, the Kinect itself can be deactivated, so you don't have to worry about that being a privacy concern.

 

[senordesol]

I've got 20 year old consoles and 20 year old games that all work just fine (so long as they are kept in working condition). I bought them. I own them. Atari and Nintendo don't have shit to say about what I do with them now.

I can trade them, I can sell them, I can lend them and the only peripheral requirements are simply that which is strictly required for the system to operate: Power, compatible Video/Audio inputs, a controller, and a cartridge.

This simple, basic system has lasted me twenty years. It just strikes me as so odd, so apologetic, when anything less than this established modus is defended.

You bought the game; you own the game. We do not need to bring a bunch of crap to the conversation. I certainly don't have to go through this shit with my modern DVD or BluRay Players. In fact, sometimes they'll give me a digital copy I can play anywhere just for getting the movie. That's this ancient and archaic practice called 'getting value for your money'.

There's no value for your money with the XBone restrictions. My consumer experience isn't 'enhanced' by restricting when and to whom I can lend, trade, or sell my own purchase. My consumer experience isn't 'enhanced' by having a camera watching me whenever I turn the system on if it's not needed.

All of this actually hurts the consumer experience; devaluing your precious dollar -subverting your investment in entertainment. Nintendo has long abandoned support from the SNES, but I can still use mine just fine. But when MS abandons it's support for the XB1, what becomes of your purchase then? You call that progress?

 

[TomWiley]

It is a shame to see people get bullied for it though. I disapprove of supporting Microsoft's bull crap but I won't give people shit about it

Yeah I've seen the words "FUCK YOU" being used in this very thread to address the Xbox-defenders, so if you disapprove of not giving people shit for prefer one piece of hardware over another, then I can already welcome you to my camp.

EDIT: The Escapist is comparably decent compared to many other sites such as Reddit those, where there's a witch hunt going on.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

While the quality of PEOPLE I met on XBL were sometimes abrasive, they fell to the wayside on functionality. I rarely lost connection in MP games, and always had a decent ping. Switch to PSN, same games and its harder to find a game, find one that isn't hacked in some way, AND find a decent connection to all players resulting in lag. Let alone not get dropped.
Same connection, different services. Different results.
I wonder why that is.
IF anything, I've learned Microsoft can run servers, and keep playerbases functional. Sony hasn't shown that, but they have given away a lot of nice things for buying their "Online" service.
Paying a service fee didn't bother me about XBL.
So it goes without saying that I'm not against XBone for other reasons. I do feel despite issues, Microsoft does its best to give a product with functionality. Not everyone who buys a PC wants to play games. Consoles are basically PCs with a different operating system but fast becoming a tool of media usage for AVERAGE people. Non-pro/elite/hardcore/whatever gamers and USERS who feel comfortable with using the system to watch movies, Netflix, ETC.
Microsoft is catering to a wider market of media consumers. Not just gamers. They always have. Its not a betrayal for them to add things you might not want. You also don't have to use those things. I never used the expansion bay in my PS2.
I don't use my computer for everything it could be used for either. Gaming among other things but the fact that I can do so much stuff with it is why i love the PC.
A console offering more options doesn't necessarily give you less gaming. But thats my feeling of it.
I allow the rest of you your thoughts and feelings, even if I don't agree. I enjoy Microsoft even if they can be the most frustrating company to deal with in support, they've given me access to things I couldn't have enjoyed otherwise and still deliver in my opinion.
And if I ever get paranoid I can pull the damn plug out of the wall, and so could you folks at home.
There aren't any evil consoles, only evil people behind them. They're 12 and they're on Xbox Live.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

1. Microsoft have made it easier for publishers to block used games and also restricted the market where it will be allowed. Yeah, real advantage there.

2. I didn't know it was so useful. Correct me if I'm wrong...10 other people can play your games for free while you have them, and once you're done with a game you can permanently give it to someone else. If so, the first feature seems pretty damn good, and the second is bullshit because the alternative is selling it, which is a better option to have.

3. It means that if your internet is ever down or something is wrong on Microsoft's end, or the next console comes out and they stop supporting the Xbone, you won't be able to play single-player games, for no reason. There is no reason to do it. It's arbitrary.

4. Some people don't like the Kinect. Having to play games that don't require Kinect with it on anyway is silly.

5. Cloud computing = like the checkins but worse, really. Every game being always online is not necessarily a good thing. I would rather my own console be capable of playing games.

6. Well alright, whatever. I think the complaints about this were more that Microsoft could have made a better games console instead, but eh, it's capable as a console anyway.

7. Actually I have seen nothing to say that the controller is bad. If anything it's the one good thing people tend to say about the Xbone.

8. Actually prefer the Xbone, but who cares.

9. We'll see.

10. $100 is not a small amount, and in Australia it is almost certainly going to become a larger difference than that. PS4 online is the one thing I'm pissed off at Sony for, although it is slightly more value for money than Gold (so far). But yeah, basically, in the long run you pay $100 more for the Xbone.

Not seeing the advantages here.

 

[Galite]

On the issue of DRM while there is a concern that I may want to take my Xbox to my buddy's Cabin that doesn't have an internet connection if we go down for a weekend tough luck no Xbox for me. The Concern about DRM is that if Microsoft has an issue, which is a possibility if kind of a slim one, and the servers go down for more than a day then no one gets to play games. Not even offline. Also once the servers for Xbox one go down your system is a brick.

I realize they could probably remove the DRM last minute by a patch but I'm not sure I trust them to do it.

 

[Jinxzy]

1. Used games:
The blockade of selling used games is entirely up to the publisher, so are the fees. What Microsoft has done here is an official way of what already happened before. Remember the Online Passes? That's just like that. Nobody has has to use them. They can. Now, if EA would decide to be a dick and use it - what would happen? They'd do it on every platform. They won't be interested in holding up Sony's image of the messiah console, they want their money. So afaik, it doesn't matter. The possibilities are there on both platforms.

2. Game sharing:
After Sony's admittedly hilarious video about sharing games (which was also perceived as childish by some, but I think these little slaps are fun in a way) people have been saying that you won't be able to share games on the XBone. Well, yes and no. You can still share games, you can give your game to up to 10 of your friends without even having to hand them your disc, they'll just have it on their account and can easily download and play it right away. The only thing here is, you need to have them on your friends list for at least 30 days and you can only give them them every game once. But honestly, I don't think that's too limiting. I wouldn't hand out my games to people that I just met either. And if you know them for a while and they just made a new account, then 30 days isn't bad either. Apart from that, I've never seen anyone rent a game twice. If you like it after playing it, you usually just buy it.

I have to say that the whole "blockade of selling used games is entirely up to the publisher" is unfair, because it's Microsoft's system and they made the system to implement this idea. When they seen the reaction from people it seems like they decided to now turn that to the publishers and let them explain it. Now EA seemed to learn for there mistakes and no longer do the online passes along with the always being online to play. It just seems that if I publisher says "Yes I want to charge $5 to someone that whats to play this game used on the xbox one." People will jump at the publisher then rather the people that implemented this. Now in no way am I sticking up for EA I would feel bad for other publishers that what to use this but would get the backfire from there fans.

Also I also believe that when I but something physically that it is mine and I can do what ever I want with it. If I want to share my game with more then 10 people, sell my game to someone, or even rent a game. Because frankly some of the game that came out are not worth the $60 price tag. I love to rent my games and try them before I buy them, that way it stops me from buying bad games. I know there are review and rating but I like to try a game for my own cause peoples ideas might not be the same as mine. I feel like if I got this system it wouldn't be my system....It's like I'm renting the system from Microsoft. I can't even upgrade the memory anymore like on the 360. The systems just seems more limited in what I can do.

4. Evil spying Kinect:
This wrong, just wrong. It has been confirmed that the Kinect can be turned off completely long ago, and you won't be spied. The Kinect itself is also a fairly useful tool, I own a Kinect 1 and there are some fun games for it out there, and it adds functionality by voice commands etc. I know people don't like being forced to get a product, but it's entirely possible that there will be an "Arcade" edition like with the 360, which is cheaper and delivered without Kinect. "Why did Microsoft do this in the first place?" you could ask now. To prevent segmentation. This way everyone has the same setup and games can be designed in that way. Apart from that I believe that if people don't try something new over time, things can't evolve.

I got the Kinect thinking it would be fun. It was but then I just got tired of it and used it to just play movies on netflix, now I don't even use it anymore. Me personally, I don't want to talk to my system and the kinect just isn't fun anymore. It was something like a fad because most of the games I wanted to play didn't even use the kinect, even thought Skyrim did. The list was super long for commands. It was just better to use the control and get the stuff done. So I don't like the idea of me buying something I don't personally want.

 

[drednoahl]

That piece of hardware is going to dictate how you use your product,when you use it,it's going to force you to check in like someone on parole,and has a built in camera that can record everything you do and there is no way you can turn it off.

So no this is not exaggerated and the Kinect spying thing is not false,people have a right to be pissed and if you don't like it then leave the thread.

Alright, hold up just a second here. What if, and yes this is a big if, you could actually TURN OFF the Kinect at anytime, making it impossible for Microsoft so spy on you while you're playing CoD? Would that do anything for you?

Because it would undermine the entire reason you're pissed to begin with, wouldn't it?

That's the point you can't turn it off because it's built into the system,if you try to turn the Kinect 2.0 off then you won't be able to use the Xbone.Also I'm not buying it because I'm getting a 3DS this holiday season but I take privacy concerns really seriously and I'm uncomfortable with the fact that the Xbone will record a person's every move.

Alright, then I got great news for you! You can turn it off!

http://kotaku.com/xbox-ones-kinect-can-turn-off-microsoft-says-noting-510100564

So yeah, while the Kinect must be plugged in, the Kinect itself can be deactivated, so you don't have to worry about that being a privacy concern.

Have you read that article you're quoting?

Relevant quote from that article:

"Yes, you can turn the system completely off," the Microsoft rep said. "This would use no power and turn everything off. We?ll share more details about how it all works later." I believe this powering off involves the aforementioned power button.

You turn off the kinect by turning off the whole console. It's already been confirmed elsewhere that kinect is integral to the xbone and cannot be turned off.

 

[TomWiley]

Once again, you fail to realize why people are upset and brush it off like unimportant nonsense.

No, I admitted early on that there is valid criticism being brought forward, just like I said that (and still do) there is a lot of invalid criticism as well. What I'm objecting to is the way people are expressing it. I brought up the bullying of people who planned to purchase the next Xbox that has occurred all over the web as an example of this mob-like behavior that I'm objecting to.

I don't actually believe that you wouldn't object against that kind of behavior as well. Besides, implying that there is an existence of such a mob defined by this irrational hatred of Microsoft isn't the same as implying that everyone who, forever reason, dislike the new (such as you) Xbox belongs to that mob. That's a complete and utter straw-man, right there.

Stop bringing up Kinect to discredit your opposition because that isn't the main reason why there's so much brouhaha in the first place.

Why would I want to "discredit" my "opposition"?

I brought up Kinect because it was the issue raised by the user I originally replied to. The other two points I recognize would be the 24-hour online verification requirement and their used games policy.

Once again, all you see is what you want to see, and what you want to see is nothing but baseless, vitriolic hate, which is far from the truth.

It's not the only thing I'm seeing, but I'm seeing a lot of it.

 

[TomWiley]

You turn off the kinect by turning off the whole console. It's already been confirmed elsewhere that kinect is integral to the xbone and cannot be turned off.

"You definitely will have the software capability to turn off all the capabilities of Kinect."

Sounds to be that you can turn it off - just not with a physical switch but on an OS level. Shouldn't make any difference whatsoever for the consumer, though.

 

[Vareoth]

It's so very refreshing to see these kind of threads that go against the myopic Internet masses and and comes with an original opinion - or rather - a well-founded and not overly biased and jaundiced opinion.

Originality =/= intelligence. But I will agree that a lot of the hatred thrown at MS is unjustified and over the top (as hatred often is).

Nevertheless I am much more willing to throw money at Sony for potentially being the least restricted, cheapest and most powerful option.

 

[doomspore98]

Okay. So, where to begin. First off, defending something (like 24 hour check-ins) by saying, "It won't effect me though" is quite silly. What happens if the xbones servers go down for more than 24 hours? Remember when playstation network was hacked? Then you'll have a 500 dollar brick that plays no games for a month. What happens if in 8 years, microsoft releases the xbone 2: lots of bone, and decides to shut down the xbone's servers. Then you will no longer be able to play any games on the xbone. And just saying "Well they wouldn't do that" is not a good defense. Microsoft shut down the X1's live system, why wouldn't they do it to the xbone? 24 hour check ins are useless and only restrict the consumer.

Next, saying "the price is basically the same" is completely false. PS4 is 400, xbone is 500. The addition of the kinect changes that in no way. Microsoft has not showed how the kinect will be better than the first one (like actually showing it in motion, except maybe the opening press conference). If Kinect 2: resurrection is as bad as the first one, and the first one was bad, then you'll have payed an extra 100 dollars for something that actively hurts you.

All the other stuff has pretty much been gone over by the others in this thread. kudos to dexter for making a very well thought out, and unquoted by the OP and his defenders I might add, statement that systematically destroyed most of the OP's defenses.

 

[AuronFtw]

I remember first reading about all of the restrictive, invasive bullshit Microsoft is trying to cram down our throats and thinking to myself, "Well no one can possibly defend this, right?".

Oh, internet. You never cease to amaze/depress me.

I know right. Wouldn't it be easier if you could just outlaw original opinions?

No, just pants on head retarded ones.

 

[IRBaboon]

You seem like a rather ardent Xbox ?defender??, so I?m sure arguing with you won?t make much sense, but maybe it?ll get some sense into bystanders? so here it goes:

1. Used games:
The blockade of selling used games is entirely up to the publisher, so are the fees. What Microsoft has done here is an official way of what already happened before. Remember the Online Passes? That's just like that. Nobody has has to use them. They can. Now, if EA would decide to be a dick and use it - what would happen? They'd do it on every platform. They won't be interested in holding up Sony's image of the messiah console, they want their money. So afaik, it doesn't matter. The possibilities are there on both platforms.

Wrong. Microsoft instated said policy and approached publishers for it, there is nothing ?optional? about it for you as a consumer.
In their very own words: http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license

?Trade-in and resell your disc-based games: Today, some gamers choose to sell their old disc-based games back for cash and credit. We designed Xbox One so game publishers can enable you to trade in your games at participating retailers. Microsoft does not charge a platform fee to retailers, publishers, or consumers for enabling transfer of these games.
[?]
In our role as a game publisher, Microsoft Studios will enable you to give your games to friends or trade in your Xbox One games at participating retailers. Third party publishers may opt in or out of supporting game resale and may set up business terms or transfer fees with retailers. Microsoft does not receive any compensation as part of this.

The ?optional? part doesn?t lie in blocking used games, that is a given. The optional part is if they don?t allow you to sell any of your games at all or publishers will allow to sell games at ?participating retailers? (to their conditions of course).

2. Game sharing:
After Sony's admittedly hilarious video about sharing games (which was also perceived as childish by some, but I think these little slaps are fun in a way) people have been saying that you won't be able to share games on the XBone. Well, yes and no. You can still share games, you can give your game to up to 10 of your friends without even having to hand them your disc, they'll just have it on their account and can easily download and play it right away. The only thing here is, you need to have them on your friends list for at least 30 days and you can only give them them every game once. But honestly, I don't think that's too limiting. I wouldn't hand out my games to people that I just met either. And if you know them for a while and they just made a new account, then 30 days isn't bad either. Apart from that, I've never seen anyone rent a game twice. If you like it after playing it, you usually just buy it.

Wrong. Again, in their very own words: http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license

?Give your games to friends: Xbox One is designed so game publishers can enable you to give your disc-based games to your friends. There are no fees charged as part of these transfers. There are two requirements: you can only give them to people who have been on your friends list for at least 30 days and each game can only be given once.
In addition, third party publishers can enable you to give games to friends. Loaning or renting games won?t be available at launch, but we are exploring the possibilities with our partners.

It clearly states that game publishers again can allow you to give your game to a friend (they don?t have to) and each game can only be given once.
They have also stated:

Give your family access to your entire games library anytime, anywhere: Xbox One will enable new forms of access for families. Up to ten members of your family can log in and play from your shared games library on any Xbox One. Just like today, a family member can play your copy of Forza Motorsport at a friend?s house. Only now, they will see not just Forza, but all of your shared games. You can always play your games, and any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time.

Anything that you stated can?t be read out of this paragraph, it doesn?t say how they want to make sure that these people are indeed your family members, it contains new vocabulary like ?shared games library? that hasn?t been assigned any meaning yet. It doesn?t even say if they can play one of your games while you play another or not e.g. if there is a Login restriction to one person at once.

Renting and Loaning are out altogether.

3. 24h offline time:
This is a point I can't say much about. I can think of many reasons why they'd do such a thing, but there's nothing I really want to defend here. For me it's no problem at all, I like my games and consoles (and PC) for the online multiplayer, but I see why it would bother people. On the other hand, I'm sure this is nothing they couldn't change. It happened before, so you can hope. If you know you'll be offline for longer than a day, then definitely don't buy the XBone yet though.

Wrong. If people should have learned anything from the Diablo III and Sim City debacles then that this ?isn?t any problem for me? is a fallacy.
People are also concentrating too much on what can go wrong on *their* side of the connection to try and explain this away, when the problem often lies with the provider.

Microsoft has had several prominent outages of their cloud service for business clients in the past:
http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2013/02/25/windows-azure-cloud-crashed-by-expired-ssl-certificate/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/02/29/windows_azure_outage/
http://www.searchenginejournal.com/microsofts-cloud-based-office-365-experiences-second-major-outage-in-less-than-a-month/33279/

Also remember the PSN outage that lasted over 3 weeks? With this kind of system in place nobody would have been able to play any of their owned games.
There?s also server maintenance, load issues when a specific game starts (Sim City and Diablo III say hello), hacks/DDOS attacks, routing issues (is your university using some sort of Proxy or do they block specific services?) or any kind of ways people could be negatively impacted by this.

Leaving aside the obvious direct consequences there?s additionally dozen of ?ways? this will indirectly affect everyone gullible enough to buy into this system in ways of eliminating ownership rights as a concept for games, what they are ?allowed? to do with their games by their new master and it will be a major problem with future-proofing. (What happens when the Microsoft servers go down? People can still play ?PC? and console games from the 70s and 80s fine, the ?Xbox One? might have a relatively short time-spam.)

4. Evil spying Kinect:
This wrong, just wrong. It has been confirmed that the Kinect can be turned off completely long ago, and you won't be spied. The Kinect itself is also a fairly useful tool, I own a Kinect 1 and there are some fun games for it out there, and it adds functionality by voice commands etc. I know people don't like being forced to get a product, but it's entirely possible that there will be an "Arcade" edition like with the 360, which is cheaper and delivered without Kinect. "Why did Microsoft do this in the first place?" you could ask now. To prevent segmentation. This way everyone has the same setup and games can be designed in that way. Apart from that I believe that if people don't try something new over time, things can't evolve.

Partially Wrong.
Again in Microsoft?s own words: http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/privacy

You are in control of when Kinect sensing is On, Off or Paused: If you don?t want the Kinect sensor on while playing games or enjoying your entertainment, you can pause Kinect. To turn off your Xbox One, just say ?Xbox Off.? When the system is off, it?s only listening for the single voice command -- ?Xbox On,? and you can even turn that feature off too. Some apps and games may require Kinect functionality to operate, so you?ll need to turn it back on for these experiences.

This basically just says that you can pull it from the electrical outlet and then it?s off. While the console is running it has to always be connecting. They haven?t exactly explained what ?Pausing Kinect? does.

There are various other paragraphs that hint to them sharing your data with their partners:

You are in control of what Kinect can see and hear: By design, you will determine how responsive and personalized your Xbox One is to you and your family during setup. The system will navigate you through key privacy options, like automatic or manual sign in, privacy settings, and clear notifications about how data is used. When Xbox One is on and you?re simply having a conversation in your living room, your conversation is not being recorded or uploaded.

So when is it?

You are in control of your personal data: You can play games or enjoy applications that use data, such as videos, photos, facial expressions, heart rate and more, but this data will not leave your Xbox One without your explicit permission.

What does constitute this ?explicit permission?? Signing an EULA containing a privacy section enough?

There are also at least several rather worrying patent applications to say the least.
For instance serving you Advertisements and watching your face for emotions: http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/onepercent/2012/06/kinect-to-watch-your-emotions.html
They also filed a patent for counting the number of people in the room and charging you a per-person rate: http://www.popsci.com/gadgets/article/2012-11/kinect-watching-you-watch-television-so-it-can-charge-you-body
Another patent is for Achievements in regards to watching TV and Advertisements: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-05-24-microsoft-applies-for-patent-on-tv-achievements

"Television viewing tends to be a passive experience for a viewer, without many opportunities for the viewer to engage or have interactive experiences with the presented content," the application states. "To increase interactive viewing and encourage a user to watch one or more particular items of video content, awards and achievements may be tied to those items of video content."

Two examples given include doling out achievements for watching a single event like the Super Bowl, or for watching an entire series of a single show.

"Additionally, by tying the awards and achievements to particular items of video or advertising content, viewers may be encouraged to increase their viewership of the content, thus increasing advertising opportunities," according to the application.

Microsoft also envisioned using the Kinect motion-sensing camera in tandem with this system. For example, achievements may be tied to viewers performing specific actions while they watch a show. The system can make sure the user is simply in the room while it plays, or it can tell the user to hold up a specific product. The camera would then scan the item held up and reward the user with an achievement.

A Microsoft Exec has also said years ago that they may use it to record objects: http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/kinects-camera-could-record-data-for-advertisers/

Microsoft?s Dennis Durkin said yesterday that Kinect could help the company ?be more targeted about what content choices we present; what advertising we present; how to get better feedback and data; about how many people are in a room when an advertisement is shown; how many people are in a room when a game in being played.? As users can see when playing the games, the camera can differentiate between different players, and this can actually extend to judging how much viewers are interested in any given game. Kinect also can record sound, which makes the job even easier.
Durkin gave an example, saying if people were watching a sporting event, the camera could see what jerseys they were wearing and deduce what team they support. Then advertisers would be able to specifically tailor to them.

I don?t know why this doesn?t seem to bother that many people, it personally would bother me a lot.

5. Hardware:
The hardware isn't too different, really. You have about the same specs in both consoles, if I trust some of the other posts I read the XBone is slightly worse, but that's nothing you could notice. Apart from that, Microsoft has the whole cloud computing thing going, and while you might start laughing at me now, this is the future and even Sony knows it.

Wrong. As someone already said, the PS3 seems to be a lot more powerful: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-spec-analysis-xbox-one
There were also rumors that Microsoft clocked down the GPU of the console because of problems and they are having problems with ESRAM yields: http://www.gamechup.com/microsoft-has-underclocked-xbox-one-gpu-clocks-having-esram-yield-problems/

In regards to cloud gaming, that is a blatant lie.
I already wrote my piece about it before, so I?ll just copy it here:

Spoiler

You seem to have a basic misunderstanding of how normal Multiplayer games work and what in this instance is being referred to as ?cloud?.

To simplify this somewhat let?s take Counter Strike and a bunch of players playing on a server.

There?s a Client and a Server and there are two basic steps that happen at the same time.
The Client does something (like fire his gun) or move around or changes state from standing to crouch or similar. The Client now sends this data as basic updated x/y/z coordinates and values to the Server.
At the same time the Server has received the last batch of updates from all connected Clients the same way and proceeds to send it out to everyone. This also includes if it has registered a weapon hit and how much damage has been done. The latency is effectively only your Ping time to the Server.

Most of the net code is also held rather simple (player character positions and states, hit/no hit and in some rare instances also bullet trajectories and speed or impact points for decals. You will not see many games that try and transfer physics, debris, particles or anything like that to players (even if the final representation is computed Client-side and you see these things), since depending on how many players are involved the amount of data and bandwidth required goes up exponentially. At best you will also see some position coordinates of a certain event having happened there and all the computations for debris and particle stuff usually happens Client-side and doesn?t look exactly the same for every player (which leads to synch issues between players, but they are usually minor and don?t impact gameplay).

What would happen in this ?Cloud? situation as proposed by Microsoft is different though.
First you have a level being rendered locally on your machine/console and let?s say you would want to offload something like physics or lighting to said Server.
What happens here is that first the Client has to send specific data connected to a certain event (in considerably larger amounts than simple positions or state changes) to the Server, for instance meshes for the involved objects (if you want to dent a barrel with an axe it needs the meshes for at least these two objects and the collision point and angle), it would also require material details or similar and possibly lighting data and other stuff like various maps used on the object. This is all being sent to the Server, the Server then has to process all that data, compute the event that just happened and send the results back to the Client and the Client basically has no other choice than to wait till the Server is done with whatever it is doing and sends its results in a similar data-intensive way (like a malformed mesh of said object(s) and whatever map changes might be required etc.) so it can update the rendering on your local machine.

At 60 Frames per second the entire process (both back and forth) would require a latency of 16.6ms at maximum in the totality of this process, even at 30 FPS this is still a stretch with 33.3ms and to be quite frank not really possible.

The process would potentially be even more complicated than ?OnLive?, since in that case you are only sending control commands from your controller directly to the server instead of any game data and it does all the computing based on those commands Server-side, then a lossy/fast encoding process takes place and it sends back the picture to you.

At most Microsoft will offer "pretend tasks/jobs" outsourced to their servers like in the already oft-mentioned Sim City or even Diablo III to make it seem like what they are referring to as the "cloud" is needed, but offering resource, bandwidth and latency-intensive tasks for rendering over it isn't really feasible.

I'm not sure why people need to explain this over and over again though, since the 2nd Post in this very thread has a link to a rather good source explaining most of it: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-in-theory-can-xbox-one-cloud-transform-gaming

Especially the article at the end is worth reading though: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-in-theory-can-xbox-one-cloud-transform-gaming

6. Features:
The XBone is an entertainment device, and it's being marketed as such. Personally, I'd be happy if my device could do more, not mad as many others. I can use Skype, watch TV, play games, record, upload and stream... I'm happy about features. It works just like a small PC (I know, PC master race bla bla), and I think that this is good that way. I would like to see a unified experience over all devices one day.

Neutral. You are probably referring to their initial reveal conference that focused only on TV TV TV TV SPORTS SPORTS SPORTS. It should be rather clear that this is a gaming console though and people won?t buy hardware for $500 to do what their WDTV Live or Roku can do for under $100 or to use it as an advanced remote. Concentrating on that gives you prudence on where their priorities lie though (which didn?t seem to be gaming that much). They did kind of present a lot (and only) games at E3. So I don?t know if that will be a major issue.

7. Controller:
For some reason I also found some people complaining about the controller. I can't really understand that, for me the XBox controller has always been the best one on the market right now. Wasn't able to hold a PS4 controller so far, but the PS3 ones were none I could really play with.

This is only my opinion, but I personally liked the new Controller with the improved Thumbsticks and D-Pad, it?s something I?d like to have for my PC. It?s about the only thing I liked about it though.

8. Design:
The simple design (even though it really shouldn't matter) is used so it can fit anywhere in your living room. It's elegant and I like it. Your choice. Although both consoles don't look too different.

I guess that depends on your perspective and taste, but the PS4 has better hardware and seems to be a lot smaller than the Xbone:

10. Price:
I know, I know, money doesn't grow on trees. However, the console price is essentially the same for both. What makes up the other 100 dollars are the extra things in the package, like the Kinect, that you'd have to purchase separately for the PS4. And Gold doesn't count as an argument either, Microsoft and Sony both do the paying for multiplayer now. And so far, Microsoft's servers seem more powerful (waiting for statement on Sony's side), and they've been that way in the past as well.

Wrong. One console costs $399, the other $499, there?s no about of whitewashing that is going to change that. A lot of people don?t like or want the Kinect, especially since it has to be always connected for the damn thing to work, see above.

And as I told someone before:

Every single sentence in your long post is saying something in defense of practices that will actively harm and disadvantage you, it is mindboggling how people get into that mindset in the first place.

It wouldn't be so infuriating if I knew that you'd be paid by Microsoft or something, but assuming that isn't the case I really, really don't get it.

What kind of advantages or benefits do you get from any of these policy being inflicted upon you with some of the newest games that you feel the need to defend it is what I'd like to know.

It's so very refreshing to see these kind of threads that go against the myopic Internet masses and and comes with an original opinion - or rather - a well-founded and not overly biased and jaundiced opinion.

This current wave of, well, straight out hatred for the Xbox One is an overreaction, but it's still damaging. It's depressing seeing users on various forums being bullied just for admitting to planning to buy an Xbox. The gaming community is like a reactionary mob - one opinion and no original thinking. Right now the mob is trending to hatred of Microsoft, tomorrow it'll be trending to hatred of something else, perhaps even Sony when their next inevitably dick-move has happened.

What's worse is the way the parasitic game "journalism" takes advantage to this and writes headlines such as "How Sony defeated Microsoft - the final blow", designed to appeal to the mob (and get hits).

It?s funny that you are using ?original? opinion. Because opinions can be original a lot, but that doesn?t make them right or correct by any measure. In full knowledge that I?m godwinning ?gas chambers are great? might be an ?original? opinion, I would much deny that it is a right or correct one though.

Edit: Fixed quotes

I've absolutely no idea how this thread continued when each and every argument put forth by the OP was meticulously de-constructed by Dexter, every point (Baring the personal ones; controller and design) has been refuted with either multiple sources or Microsofts own terms. But to further this issue is that it does not matter what anybody including Microsoft say, all that matters is what the terms and conditions say, because that is what you're held to not to what some CEO or PR man promises