Why the XBone is a good console

[Tanakh]

Doesn't it all seem a bit restrictive to you? Like if you had a coke machine and a pepsi machine but every time you wanted a coke it made you fill out a form?

Honestly no, I never trade in games this days nor trade with friends and am always online. Chances are I'll go PS4 due the price, but I guess i am exactly the target consumer microsoft had in mind as the limitations mean nothing to me.

OT: I agree with you OP, sadly the kinect is not worth 100 bucks for me atm. If they release some cool hacks and make it worthwhile for the PC i might consider it; god knows the current kinect has some cool applications for your PC.

 

[TomWiley]

I remember first reading about all of the restrictive, invasive bullshit Microsoft is trying to cram down our throats and thinking to myself, "Well no one can possibly defend this, right?".

Oh, internet. You never cease to amaze/depress me.

I know right. Wouldn't it be easier if you could just outlaw original opinions?

No, just pants on head retarded ones.

I wouldn't call the OP's opinion retarded, and it was the OP's opinion we discussed, but thanks for exemplifying the needlessly-hostile-mob stereotype I was working with before.

 

[razer17]

2. Game sharing:
After Sony's admittedly hilarious video about sharing games (which was also perceived as childish by some, but I think these little slaps are fun in a way) people have been saying that you won't be able to share games on the XBone. Well, yes and no. You can still share games, you can give your game to up to 10 of your friends without even having to hand them your disc, they'll just have it on their account and can easily download and play it right away. The only thing here is, you need to have them on your friends list for at least 30 days and you can only give them them every game once. But honestly, I don't think that's too limiting. I wouldn't hand out my games to people that I just met either. And if you know them for a while and they just made a new account, then 30 days isn't bad either. Apart from that, I've never seen anyone rent a game twice. If you like it after playing it, you usually just buy it.

Okay, I'm surprised people are taking this at face value. I'll eat my shoes if there isn't some restriction on this they haven't mentioned or have used PR speak to confuse us about. I mean, that way I would just split games with my friend, say CoD or Fifa which I sink many hours into. If two can play simultaneously we'll just pay £20 each, which would be worse than the pre-owned shit for Microsoft and publishers.

4. Evil spying Kinect:
This wrong, just wrong. It has been confirmed that the Kinect can be turned off completely long ago, and you won't be spied. The Kinect itself is also a fairly useful tool, I own a Kinect 1 and there are some fun games for it out there, and it adds functionality by voice commands etc. I know people don't like being forced to get a product, but it's entirely possible that there will be an "Arcade" edition like with the 360, which is cheaper and delivered without Kinect. "Why did Microsoft do this in the first place?" you could ask now. To prevent segmentation. This way everyone has the same setup and games can be designed in that way. Apart from that I believe that if people don't try something new over time, things can't evolve.

Microsoft have already announced that the Kinect is mandatory. Perhaps they'll back track, but I doubt it. The kinect camera can be turned off, they did say that. The audio recording? Not so much. And hell, all you have to know is that you can say "Xbox On" to turn the damn thing on, and you must realise the microphone is always listening. And year, I doubt microsoft has any plans to record your conversations, but if the NSA and PRISM are liver-reading emails and IM, listening to phonecalls, what makes you believe the Xbone is immune?

 

[drednoahl]

You turn off the kinect by turning off the whole console. It's already been confirmed elsewhere that kinect is integral to the xbone and cannot be turned off.

"You definitely will have the software capability to turn off all the capabilities of Kinect."

Sounds to be that you can turn it off - just not with a physical switch but on an OS level. Shouldn't make any difference whatsoever for the consumer, though.

First, your quote there is out of context and second it's not from the article you linked to.

 

[DragonStorm247]

Good for you OP. You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, and I completely respect that.

Doesn't mean I'm getting the XBone though.

 

[NiPah]

The Xbox One will have region protection plus, if you don't live in a supported country the Xbox will not authenticate your game:

Xbox One games are for activation and distribution only in specified geographic regions. See game package and/or retailer product information, for each game?s specific geographic regions.

www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/pre-order-xbox-one/disclaimer
So yeah, when Hideo Kojima said he can't wait to see how good his game will look on the Xbox One, it will have to be at an unspecified time since as of this time there is no release date set for Japan (and due to this no one in Japan will be able to play the Xbox One.
This sums it up pretty well:

 

[SecsNoises]

I'm going to respond to #6 here. I don't know if this is a rehash of what someone else said, thread was TLR... ah well.

When you hear the phrase Xbox, what primarily comes to mind? Is it watching Netflix in your underwear? Having an array of television channels at your disposal?

Nope, it's gaming of course. While Microsoft may not be marketing it as such, nonetheless, that doesn't change the strong image. Of course, MS are perfectly within their rights to reinvent, HOWEVER, they also have to accept risk in doing so, ESPECIALLY if that transition is going to be as ham-fisted as it looks. We do not owe them a free-pass, nor do we owe them apologetics until they've sufficiently demonstrate how these changes are beneficial. So far, myself - and many other potential customers - do not see the proposed features USPs in any way, shape, or form, at least, not to the extent of justifying the extra $100 (more if you live outside the US). We already have devices which do the above, and far better to boot. These are no more than convenient extras to us, not selling points.

For being 'innovative' and 'bringing a range of appealing features', does this admonish MS of criticism? Of course not. Does the idea of a device which allows you to watch tv on your tv not sound even slightly ridiculous? Had it continued in a similar vein as 360 and allowed these features to COMPLEMENT the more traditional aspects (as opposed to partake in a dick-slinging contest with), I'm sure it would be getting off far more lightly.

Right now, I just want to try some of what Microsoft is smoking. Probably more fun than sitting at home with a bricked console.

 

[PoolCleaningRobot]

It is a shame to see people get bullied for it though. I disapprove of supporting Microsoft's bull crap but I won't give people shit about it

Yeah I've seen the words "FUCK YOU" being used in this very thread to address the Xbox-defenders, so if you disapprove of not giving people shit for prefer one piece of hardware over another, then I can already welcome you to my camp.

EDIT: The Escapist is comparably decent compared to many other sites such as Reddit those, where there's a witch hunt going on.

While I'm all for treating people kindly on the Internet, I don't know if I necessarily want to be in your camp. Does the XB1 have some kind of feature/features that you want and you're buying it because of that? Then yes, you're a-ok with me. Are you defending the XB1 with reasons like "it could be worse" or "its not that bad" and "my opinion is better because less people agree"? Then I'm going to have to say "no". The XB1 doesn't need "defenders". It either has what you want, or it doesn't. If it doesn't have any features you can tote, then you shouldn't be buying it. Its that simple. Anything else and people are just buying for brand loyalty they don't understand.

I disapprove the direction Microsoft wants to take the industry. The idea that I can't own physical copies of a game without some company constantly checking to make sure its my property and I didn't steal it pisses me the fuck off. I don't care if my Internet is stable and can support it, its the principle of things. I shouldn't have to bend over for an entertainment company, they should bend over for me. If people want to support such a device then they need to have good reasons (like that game sharing via the Internet thing)

And yeah, thank god for the escapist's moderation. Its nice that people can't just cock around and have to contribute to discussions rather than waste our time (though my post may be pushing it a little)

 

[TomWiley]

You turn off the kinect by turning off the whole console. It's already been confirmed elsewhere that kinect is integral to the xbone and cannot be turned off.

"You definitely will have the software capability to turn off all the capabilities of Kinect."

Sounds to be that you can turn it off - just not with a physical switch but on an OS level. Shouldn't make any difference whatsoever for the consumer, though.

First, your quote there is out of context and second it's not from the article you linked to.

Oh my bad, I included the wrong link with my original post. You must have quoted me before I updated with the right one. But how is it out of context when it directly confirms that you can turn off "all the capabilities of the Kinect"?

 

[Atmos Duality]

When you hear the phrase Xbox, what primarily comes to mind? Is it watching Netflix in your underwear? Having an array of television channels at your disposal?

Nope, it's gaming of course.

Agreed.
One of the silliest things about this whole Xbone ordeal: M$ spent over a decade specifically attaching the Xbox brand to gaming, and all of a sudden they want to rebrand it as an "all in one" system instead because they're uncertain if gamers alone will accept it.

I mean, they have to be aware that they've already eliminated a great deal of their existing gaming market just with the Online-Verification fuckery.

"Oh, it's reaching out to a broader audience. Not just gamers."
Except that audience, that market that supposedly craves Smart TVs, DVDs and Blu Ray ALREADY HAVE a plethora of goods and services that satisfy that.

There are three two true next-gen consoles heading into the mainstream market here; TWO.
Compared to the HUNDREDS of DVD/Blu Ray players and Smart TVs out on the market. Why dilute that distinction?

 

[panosbouk]

Hey,
after seeing all the hype around the PS4 and (often even unjust) hate against the XBone I felt like I should post this thread. First of, note that while I'll try to go by facts, I can't be completely objective. I'm fully aware that I'll go against popular opinion with this post, but looking at prior experience with the Escapist forums I hope to find at least a few people who are willing to discuss like proper people and without all the hype.
Now, let's get started. I've been checking different sites over the last few days and have talked to quite a bit of people about the new generation. As Yahtzee already said, you don't have to buy any console, but people feel like they do, so that's what causes these problems. That divides sites into either a PS4 fanbase or an XBone fanbase, because others just don't want to join a thread where people are going wild about the other console.
Let me start off that personally, I think both consoles are good. Both are on par when it comes to technical details and so on, they are just aiming to do different things. And let me note that even if the XBone will fail horribly (more than certain it won't, more about that later), that's not the end of Microsoft. That's just the vocal voices of a few on the internet.
Let's address the main points that people have been criticizing over the last few days:

1. Used games:
The blockade of selling used games is entirely up to the publisher, so are the fees. What Microsoft has done here is an official way of what already happened before. Remember the Online Passes? That's just like that. Nobody has has to use them. They can. Now, if EA would decide to be a dick and use it - what would happen? They'd do it on every platform. They won't be interested in holding up Sony's image of the messiah console, they want their money. So afaik, it doesn't matter. The possibilities are there on both platforms.

2. Game sharing:
After Sony's admittedly hilarious video about sharing games (which was also perceived as childish by some, but I think these little slaps are fun in a way) people have been saying that you won't be able to share games on the XBone. Well, yes and no. You can still share games, you can give your game to up to 10 of your friends without even having to hand them your disc, they'll just have it on their account and can easily download and play it right away. The only thing here is, you need to have them on your friends list for at least 30 days and you can only give them them every game once. But honestly, I don't think that's too limiting. I wouldn't hand out my games to people that I just met either. And if you know them for a while and they just made a new account, then 30 days isn't bad either. Apart from that, I've never seen anyone rent a game twice. If you like it after playing it, you usually just buy it.

UPDATE: Mixed this up a little bit, but thankfully [user]9thRequiem[/user] clarified it:

This is two separate things.
One is that up to 10 friends can be in your "Family", and can play your games whenever they like, though each game can only be played by one friend at a time. This is "Sharing" games. I have no idea why this feature isn't widely loved - Share games, with close friends, without needing a disc. If Microsoft went down the Sony route and made a snarky video, maybe things would be clearer.
Separately, there's "Giving" games, which can be done to anyone who's been on your friends list for at least 30 days and can only be done once. After giving someone a game, you no longer have it. This is a much less useful feature, but still beats Steam's game giving.

3. 24h offline time:
This is a point I can't say much about. I can think of many reasons why they'd do such a thing, but there's nothing I really want to defend here. For me it's no problem at all, I like my games and consoles (and PC) for the online multiplayer, but I see why it would bother people. On the other hand, I'm sure this is nothing they couldn't change. It happened before, so you can hope. If you know you'll be offline for longer than a day, then definitely don't buy the XBone yet though.

4. Evil spying Kinect:
This wrong, just wrong. It has been confirmed that the Kinect can be turned off completely long ago, and you won't be spied. The Kinect itself is also a fairly useful tool, I own a Kinect 1 and there are some fun games for it out there, and it adds functionality by voice commands etc. I know people don't like being forced to get a product, but it's entirely possible that there will be an "Arcade" edition like with the 360, which is cheaper and delivered without Kinect. "Why did Microsoft do this in the first place?" you could ask now. To prevent segmentation. This way everyone has the same setup and games can be designed in that way. Apart from that I believe that if people don't try something new over time, things can't evolve.

5. Hardware:
The hardware isn't too different, really. You have about the same specs in both consoles, if I trust some of the other posts I read the XBone is slightly worse, but that's nothing you could notice. Apart from that, Microsoft has the whole cloud computing thing going, and while you might start laughing at me now, this is the future and even Sony knows it.

6. Features:
The XBone is an entertainment device, and it's being marketed as such. Personally, I'd be happy if my device could do more, not mad as many others. I can use Skype, watch TV, play games, record, upload and stream... I'm happy about features. It works just like a small PC (I know, PC master race bla bla), and I think that this is good that way. I would like to see a unified experience over all devices one day.

7. Controller:
For some reason I also found some people complaining about the controller. I can't really understand that, for me the XBox controller has always been the best one on the market right now. Wasn't able to hold a PS4 controller so far, but the PS3 ones were none I could really play with.

8. Design:
The simple design (even though it really shouldn't matter) is used so it can fit anywhere in your living room. It's elegant and I like it. Your choice. Although both consoles don't look too different.

9. Games/Exclusives:
This is anyone's game. If you like the PS4's exclusives, go buy that. If you like the XBone's games (of which there are more announced at the moment), go buy that.

10. Price:
I know, I know, money doesn't grow on trees. However, the console price is essentially the same for both. What makes up the other 100 dollars are the extra things in the package, like the Kinect, that you'd have to purchase separately for the PS4. And Gold doesn't count as an argument either, Microsoft and Sony both do the paying for multiplayer now. And so far, Microsoft's servers seem more powerful (waiting for statement on Sony's side), and they've been that way in the past as well.

Now, as you can see, both consoles are not too different. They are both good. They are selling well, and none of them has any big advnatge. The amount of pre-orders is basically the same for both (according to Amazon). This is still early in the "war", so we can only see how it ends once both are out for a while. The XBone will grab a lot of the casuals, while the PS4 currently is mostly bought by "hardcore gamers" as you could say. It's a choice of target group that can go either way. Apart from that, nothing is set in stone yet, we still have a couple of months to go. So, a plea of mine, if you see any of these ridiculous fan circle jerks, don't join them. You can decide what you want to buy, and you can tell anyone why you'd want to buy it, but we don't need another post about how great one console is. It changes nothing if you say Microsoft is doomed a thousand times, look at SimCity - everyone said they're not going to buy it, but it still sold well. The people on forums don't make up the largest amount of buyers.
Both consoles are good. And please don't forget that no company is an angel, they all don't know you and need to make profit, that's how it works. We've seen that often enough in the past.
Okay, this rounds up all the things I wanted to comment on (if I didn't forget anything). I'm open to discuss anything on this topic with you, if you deliver valid arguments.

As far as controllers and witch hardware is better, that is the last thing we should look at. Controllers both are great and both feel different for different people, smaller hands, bigger hands, overall taste on looks. Hardware while PS4 has better specs will not run DirectX 11 library but instead OpenGL. So we will not see big differences on games, only maybe from the first parties not 3rd.

Now about DRM, used games, lending games etc.

You might not have a problem with their vision of the console or their strategy and that is ok.
But you have to understand the difference between only the publisher been able to use any kind of DRM and the console have implement in DRM.

Say there is an X game on both platforms, without any kind of DRM from the publisher. On Xbox One I cannot take it with me and go to a place without internet connection (summer house - cottage) for 3 days and play the game, while on the PS4 I can.

You don't know me and I don't know you, on the Xbox One I cannot trade you or lend you the game without you paying for a fee (where we still don't know the cost) while on the PS4 I can.

But as you said why should you lend a game to a stranger? You can lend it to a friend (with all Microsoft's restrictions), you are making here one mistake. Yes If you lend it once he or she will be able to beat the game done with it and if they liked it so much they will buy it. But think about this: you have a fighting game, say SoulCalibur, you lend it once, they play it had fun for as long as they had it and returned it back to you, without having interest buying the game, cannot afford it or saving for another title. But 5 months later, your friend wants to gather with some people from work-school thinking now "It would be nice to have SoulCalibur to play with the guys but my friend already gave it to me once"
There is always a reason for someone to lend a game more than once. Another one is you give it, they don't have time you finish it and you asking it back for your own reasons.

Can you imagine if that kind of a policy where applied on hardware?

 

[Callate]

There's a link here that I'm not sure some people are seeing.

Microsoft has explicitly stated that you will need a broadband connection in order to use an XBox One. I mean, there might be some workaround with a dial-up modem that you could use to make the XBone call Microsoft once a day, but let's get serious: if you don't have round-the-clock Internet access, your console is quickly going to brick itself. Microsoft has said that in essence they aren't interested in the custom of users who don't have that access. And while some people might like to claim otherwise, there are still a significant number of people who don't have a broadband Internet connection- it's too great an expense, it simply isn't available in their area, or it's there but with prohibitive data caps.

Sony has equally explicitly stated that you do not need broadband Internet in order to use the PS4. There will be a non-trivial base of users who choose to use their consoles offline. There will be players who choose to spend their time on single-player experiences, and despite the fervid desires of certain companies, social and multi-player games that allow companies to put out new content in dribs and drabs with the assurance that players will spend most of their time entertaining each other are not all there is to the market.

What follows:

If any company decides to implement a stricter hold on their games- additional fees or barring on resale, banning rentals, locking people out of their games for perceived violations of terms of service- Microsoft has explicitly given them the means to do so, and implicitly suggested that they were okay with them doing so. Everyone who buys an XBox One has given them the go-ahead to use or abuse those "safeties" as they see fit.

There might be isolated pockets of protest if individual companies do decide to implement draconian policies, but that's what they'll remain: isolated pockets. You decided to wear the collar; you're surprised now that they've attached a leash? Every "Oh, it's the way of things, get used to it" argument relies on this perception of inevitability and slow slides rather than an actual recognition of what's at stake or what's lost. When a company like Microsoft can set up a situation like this one, their battle is already three-quarters won.

Conversely, with Sony explicitly enabling people to play offline, every time a company decides to implement a restrictive policy dependent on broadband, they've just left a significant portion of the customers that Sony loudly declared were a-okay out in the cold. There won't be an isolated, ignorable stink about that- there will be a fit from every PS4 owner who's paying attention. "The company that sold me my console told me that things wouldn't be like that, and you broke faith."

Which in my eyes is how it should be, frankly. We need more single-player games requiring network connections like I need syphilis.

The standards and examples that companies set matter. What Microsoft has shown is that it's the publishers, not the buyers of their console, that they view as the parties to be appeased. Sony has shown the opposite. I'll grant there are still unknowns in how Sony's policies will pan out, but the spirit of the law is at least in the right place. Microsoft's policies are wrongheaded from the get-go, and we'd be fools to ignore that.

 

[TomWiley]

Does the XB1 have some kind of feature/features that you want and you're buying it because of that?

Not really. I'm not planning on getting the Xbox One.

The XB1 doesn't need "defenders". It either has what you want, or it doesn't.

It just feels like it isn't that easy. It feels like this debate is not longer about what the Xbox has or hasn't got, but rather whether what Microsoft is doing with the Xbox is unethical, or if the console really deserves all the hate.

 

[Kastrenzo]

Can we please stop calling it the XbOne?

Why not X1.
Or XBomb

 

[Remus]

Lewis Black just gave the XBone the finger. Its only redeeming feature is a robot operating off the kinect that can serve beers. The failure that is the upcoming XBone is now bleeding outside the regular gaming circles. Things are really going to get interesting. Next up: Bill Maher New Rules.

 

[drednoahl]

Oh my bad, I included the wrong link with my original post. You must have quoted me before I updated with the right one. But how is it out of context when it directly confirms that you can turn off "all the capabilities of the Kinect"?

Phil Spencer is talking about in game - if the game doesn't require the kinect, that's one of the reasons the Kotaku article you originally linked was necessary and came out after the interview you now link. In game, most of the "features" on the xbone are down to the publisher or dev, but out of game it's a different story altogether and this is true of the kinect. It's an old quote and we've had more up to date information since then.

I expect that most devs will demand the kinect is always on during gameplay so they can use crappy AI to either cheat to make the game more intense, or ease off if you're not playing well using "the power of the cloud" to make single player games a thing of the past and always online a demand for AI adjustment (DRM justification.) Finishing a game like Dark Souls by your own skill will be a thing of the past - pulling the right face for kinect, hyperventilating and hitting the buttons just the right way will be the method of choice for a lot of xbone gamers to get those achievements they desire. I don't think that's good for gaming at all. That technique is called "shoot the robot then shoot the mom" by the way. Also if you've played a game for too long the devs/chose could chose to make the game boring so you buy another game, or maybe some DLC to liven it up. Again, I don't think this is good for gaming. Microsoft might not have intended for the kinect to be used this way, but if I can see happening you can be sure that money grubbing publishers will exploit it to their advantage at the cost of the gamer.

 

[mKeRix]

Alright, I kind of skimmed through the posts that were added to the topic after I left. As predicted, a lot of it was pro-Sony, but oh well. This will probably be my last post in here, as I don't see too much to discuss anymore. A lot of the people posting just repeat themselves about things that have already been discussed before, and sometimes even bring arguments that are already proven wrong. However, I hope that in the mind of some who might have read this thread, I reached my goal: making clear that all this hype is definitely overstated. Therefor I'd like to thank everyone that either decided to voice up as an XBox buyer (which takes guts to do on this community at the moment) or discussed with me by bringing up good arguments - I think that the outcome of that discussion depicts the advantages and disadvantages of the console pretty well.

But, there's one post by [user]Dexter111[/user] which he'd probably put a lot of time into, so I'll reply to him only now and hope that the others find satisfying answers to their questions and opinions on all the other posts here.

You seem like a rather ardent Xbox ?defender??, so I?m sure arguing with you won?t make much sense, but maybe it?ll get some sense into bystanders? so here it goes:

I'm here for arguing, and I'm not some diehard XBox fan. I played on PC more than I ever did on the 360. However I will buy an XBox One (if I buy any that is, reasons at the end of the post).

Wrong. Microsoft instated said policy and approached publishers for it, there is nothing ?optional? about it for you as a consumer.
In their very own words: http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license
The ?optional? part doesn?t lie in blocking used games, that is a given. The optional part is if they don?t allow you to sell any of your games at all or publishers will allow to sell games at ?participating retailers? (to their conditions of course).

Not wrong. From what I see, I said exactly what is on there, with additions from other official statements.
Your quotes show that the whole used game selling is completely optional, it doesn't matter what it is defaulted to, it's optional since you can choose. Microsoft hands all decisions over this to the publishers. It even lets third party publishers choose if they want to have any exclusive deals with any game retailers or not.
Microsoft Studios however (their own publisher) will do deals with retailers, with whom is not known. And that doesn't matter too much, as they only publish a small amount of the games.

Wrong. Again, in their very own words: http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license
It clearly states that game publishers again can allow you to give your game to a friend (they don?t have to) and each game can only be given once.
Anything that you stated can?t be read out of this paragraph, it doesn?t say how they want to make sure that these people are indeed your family members, it contains new vocabulary like ?shared games library? that hasn?t been assigned any meaning yet. It doesn?t even say if they can play one of your games while you play another or not e.g. if there is a Login restriction to one person at once.

Renting and Loaning are out altogether.

Not wrong once again.
Literally everything (except for the publisher's choice, which was something to be expected after the first paragprah) is in my first post, just like you quoted it. I even quoted another user's version that was more clear. I don't know if you haven't read everything completely or if you used the unedited copy of my post for whatever reason, but yeah - it's all right there.
And renting/loaning isn't excluded either, Redbox has already something going regarding that. They will expand on their possibilities though, if they do as promised.

Wrong. If people should have learned anything from the Diablo III and Sim City debacles then that this ?isn?t any problem for me? is a fallacy.
People are also concentrating too much on what can go wrong on *their* side of the connection to try and explain this away, when the problem often lies with the provider.

Leaving aside the obvious direct consequences there?s additionally dozen of ?ways? this will indirectly affect everyone gullible enough to buy into this system in ways of eliminating ownership rights as a concept for games, what they are ?allowed? to do with their games by their new master and it will be a major problem with future-proofing. (What happens when the Microsoft servers go down? People can still play ?PC? and console games from the 70s and 80s fine, the ?Xbox One? might have a relatively short time-spam.)

Not as wrong as you'd made it appear to be.
The 24h limit isn't good, and I'm aware of the consequences this could maybe have. I stated clearly that this is nothing I could really defend. However, speaking from experience, I'm fairly certain that Microsoft won't have too many problems with their servers, they have a lot of experience. This could be completely wrong, but server outages really shouldn't be the big thing to worry about here.
Future-proofing is indeed an interesting question. Nothing I can defend, all I can do is hope that they will eventually just remove the need for the servers, at least before their support ends.

Partially Wrong.
Again in Microsoft?s own words: http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/privacy
This basically just says that you can pull it from the electrical outlet and then it?s off. While the console is running it has to always be connecting. They haven?t exactly explained what ?Pausing Kinect? does.
So when is it?
What does constitute this ?explicit permission?? Signing an EULA containing a privacy section enough?

A Microsoft Exec has also said years ago that they may use it to record objects: http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/kinects-camera-could-record-data-for-advertisers/

I don?t know why this doesn?t seem to bother that many people, it personally would bother me a lot.

They confirmed you being able to turn it off completely or just enable certain feature. That was mentioned so often in the thread, with so many articles proving it. As for their explicit permission, there's plenty of services that have this sentence in their ToS and people don't complain. You probably signed up for one of these yourself. You just have this horror vision of the big devil Microsoft giving everyone your data right now.
I'm aware of the patents, but Sony also patented a lot of DRM procedures. It's not a valid argument until that is actually announced. Otherwise I could just say that Sony will add even worse DRM themselves, but I can't, since they're not going to so far. See? It doesn't count.
I don't see why it would bother me too much. Google and any other ad network is already collecting data from me and showing me ads based off what they found. At least I get ads I might be interested in, not just random stuff.

Wrong. As someone already said, the PS3 seems to be more powerful: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-spec-analysis-xbox-one

There were also rumors that Microsoft clocked down the GPU of the console to only about ~900GFlops because of problems in order to prevent another "RROD" disaster and they are having problems with eSRAM yields: http://www.gamechup.com/microsoft-has-underclocked-xbox-one-gpu-clocks-having-esram-yield-problems/

In regards to cloud gaming, that is a blatant lie.
Especially the article at the end is worth reading though: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-in-theory-can-xbox-one-cloud-transform-gaming

Again, yes and no. There may be a power difference according to what people have found out so far. Will it really matter though? Take my Windows Phone example. More power doesn't automatically mean everything is better. And will the customer notice? No.
I'm aware about what cloud computing is, but thanks. I did however already say that this is still a very new technology, but it's something that is being developed. There's attempts to utilize it, like Forza's AI system, but that's still very early in the game. It's not wrong to research new possibilities. If we wouldn't, we wouldn't have all the inventions we have now. It's the potential of the Xbone's power growing over time.

Neutral. You are probably referring to their initial reveal conference that focused only on TV TV TV TV SPORTS SPORTS SPORTS. It should be rather clear that this is a gaming console though and people won?t buy hardware for $500 to do what their WDTV Live or Roku can do for under $100 or to use it as an advanced remote. Concentrating on that gives you prudence on where their priorities lie though (which didn?t seem to be gaming that much). They did kind of present a lot (and only) games at E3. So I don?t know if that will be a major issue.

That's the thing, it's not just a gaming console. It's an entertainment device.
It's not aiming to do just gaming, they are trying to make this an all in one device. And it's not a bad try. Everything I'd want to do is available there, including many features that I don't have with any other products. Their marketing reflects that, a lot of the focus has been on entertainment so far.

This is only my opinion, but I personally liked the new Controller with the improved Thumbsticks and D-Pad, it?s something I?d like to have for my PC. It?s about the only thing I liked about it though.

Personal choice, nothing I'd wanted to emphasize to make the XBone look better or anything.

I guess that depends on your perspective and taste, but the PS4 has better hardware and seems to be a lot smaller than the Xbone.

Yep, personal choice once again. The XBone is designed to fit anywhere though.

Wrong. One console costs $399, the other $499, there?s no amount of whitewashing that is going to change that. A lot of people don?t like or want the Kinect, especially since it has to be always connected for the damn thing to work, see above.

Yes and no. The price tag is indeed different. The price/value is the same.
Many people not wanting the Kinect is also something that was discussed a couple times in this thread, but to sum it up: it's not nice, but understandable.

And as I told someone before:

Every single sentence in your long post is saying something in defense of practices that will actively harm and disadvantage you, it is mindboggling how people get into that mindset in the first place.

That's partly the point of the post: to get these false rumors out of your head. I didn't add any real advantages because I felt like that would just cause even more hate, but I will do so now at the end of the post. My main post is really just there to defend the console from false accusations I came across, if you want to word it like that.

It wouldn't be so infuriating if I knew that you'd be paid by Microsoft or something, but assuming that isn't the case I really, really don't get it.

I'm not paid by Microsoft. I'm paying them by buying and using their products and services. The reason why I did this, created a thread in favor of the XBone in the relatively pro PS4 Escapist forums is above.

What kind of advantages or benefits do you get from any of these policy being inflicted upon you with some of the newest games that you feel the need to defend it is what I'd like to know.

I'll tell you what my advantages are, even though I didn't want to stir up more hate by doing so:

entertainment thanks to games and other services
friends playing with me
good servers for multiplayer etc/good online service in general
good exclusives that I want (personal opinion)
possibility of sharing games with my long distance girlfriend without having to send a bluray across the whole world
connectivity throughout my Microsoft ecosystem
fun

It?s funny that you are using ?original? opinion. Because opinions can be original a lot, but that doesn?t make them right or correct by any measure. In full knowledge that I?m godwinning ?gas chambers are great? might be an ?original? opinion, I would much deny that it is a right or correct one though.

Any opinion can be right when proven. I gave enough evidences and reasons for mine to be considered as correct (or acceptable at least). But it's also my personal opinion, and saying that someone is stupid (which you didn't, but others did around here) for buying an Xbone is wrong (and bullying). It's our choice. Some like the Xbone, some the PS4. As I said, according to Amazon the preorders have been about the same for both sides.

So overall, thank you for taking the time to search all that information up. While you were right with some (which I already said to be right before mostly, but the thread is too long to read everything I guess), many things you said were either overstated or not read correctly, at least in connection to my post.

Anyways, this is a big console war all over again. I guess I'll just have to go and talk about the Xbone on other sites until things have calmed down here. I did enjoy talking to some of you though and am slightly impressed with the popularity this thread got.
The choice of buying is yours in the end. I'm happy with my choice, it's the product I want.
To close my post, this is nice article by someone else about all the things that have been discussed here mostly, with a similar outcome like this thread (I'm talking about the opinions we've discussed, not the masses of posts for Sony repeating the same things).

 

[Lightknight]

You're just apologizing a bunch of things to try and claim that they're not as bad as people are making them out to be. We're not having to do this with other consoles. It's a bunch of small actions and each one takes them down a peg in real ways. Both the PS4 and Xbone play games. Both of them will likely deliver a lot of fun. But when comparing the two, Microsoft has put them at a disadvantage in nearly every category. It isn't that the Xbone sucks or anything along those lines. It's that they've forced things onto the consumer that limit market competition and choice on our side. This is a great console if you're an EA-esque company. But it's not a consumer friendly one.

It's a relatively simple issue. The ps4 has gone out of its way to satisfy the customer with very few negatives. They've been incredibly savy this time around whereas I thought they'd quite clearly lost their mind in the ps3 generation and they suffered for it.

Maybe all these big names have agreed to each have a generation where the others look stupid or at least one looks stupid.

 

[TomWiley]

In game, most of the "features" on the xbone are down to the publisher or dev, but out of game it's a different story altogether and this is true of the kinect. It's an old quote and we've had more up to date information since then.

Alright, it feels like we're discussing what Microsoft has said, or hasn't said, or which statement is reliable or not. So let's turn to Microsoft itself, seeing as well - Microsoft ought to be on authority on well, Microsoft.

http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/privacy

The Microsoft article states that you can customize what the Kinect can see or her in privacy settings, that you you can pause/turn-off the Kinect sensor while playing (although developers can of course make games that require the Kinect be turned on) and no date gathered by the Kinect will leave your Xbox without your permission.

Again, this is on Microsoft's official website. If this isn't reliable - nothing is.

Doesn't sound like the Kinect is as much of a privacy concern that people like to think it is.