Why the XBone is a good console
- Thread starter mKeRix
- Start date
Recommended Videos
That isn't what he said at all. It is simply nice to see people offering an alternate point of view. Nothing more, nothing less.fozzy360 said:
OT: That was a nice original evaluation. Like has been said, no one has to buy either. Honestly, I've never been a Sony guy, but the check in once every 24h really hurts. It is unnecessary, and for that reason, it shouldn't be part of the console. I understand their reasoning, but completely disagree with it.
I may be jumping to PC...
I'm usually one who just reads forums and rarely posts, but in this case I just have to throw my two cents on the pile. I'm gonna use the numbers from the original post to clarify what I'm talking about.
1) Used Games:
The only thing that confuses me is: I will still be able to sell the hard copy (if purchased) to Gamestop or whatever company is deemed worthy? If so, then I don't see what the issue here is. So they dictate which stores to sell to, not that there are many used game stores other than the ones listed anyways, but at least one can still sell them!
2) Game Sharing:
In my opinion, I find this not to be a problem. Maybe because I shun most of the human race. I do live with roommates who have similar gaming interests however, so letting them play my games (and vice versa) works for me.
3) 24hr Offline Time:
Again, this isn't a huge problem for me. Yes I may have to dine on dog food every once in a while just to pay for internet, but hey at least I'm not bored! (haha) Also, I have a theory on why they did this. When the console is connected, it serches for updates and patches and such, right?. This could alleviate that 'Day 1 update' that many of us are plagued with. In fact, it may even solve the entire issue of downloading updates. If one could set it so that it automatically logs in during the time when one is sleeping or at work, then those updates could be downloaded and installed, ready to go when one next logs in. To me, being able to pop in a disk and immediately play is worth the hassle. As an added bonus I don't even have to log on, the console does it for me! This could ALMOST be a benefit.... *takes cover*
4) The Evil Spying Kinect:
Now this is the topic that REALLY burns me. First of all, since when did Microsoft, the Government, or ANY company for that matter take an intrest in what some random Joe Schmoe does with his free time? These companies couldn't give one flying flip about you, or me, or whoever decides to purchase this console. (Besides, if they really wanted to watch you they are probably doing it right now and you have done something to get yourself noticed. Like murder or money laundering.) And yes, I am well aware of the recent Verizon scandal. I myself am a Verizon customer and I just don't care. Because I have nothing, as with most people, that the government wants to know about. Yes it is a shame, but the world keeps spinning and I'm still here so life goes on. *deep breath* But I digress.
Second, if one really has an issue with the Kinect, it has been confirmed that one could just turn it off. Problem solved. And just in case one is really paranoid, then just turn the sensor so it faces a wall. Then it won't be able to "watch" one sit on the couch, take naps, or whatever interesting thing one does in front of their gaming console.
6) Features:
Crunchyroll, Netflix, and Hulu. MUCH cheaper than cable. Nuff said.
10) Price:
Yes, the Xbone is $100 more than the PS4. But let's take a trip back to when the PS3 and 360 first came out. Their roles were reversed, and yet many people flocked to the PS3. As time went on both consoles became cheaper, just as it will be with these consoles. If you want one, yet can't afford it, then either wait until the inevitable price drop or get a summer job. As the Law of Alchemy states, one cannot gain something without first sacrificing something of equal value... *hides again*
I think that about sums it up. Whether or not you buy the Xbone, PS4, or neither is ulitimately up to you. Don't just listen to the ramblings on either side and just assume they are crap. Do your own research, and find out what fits for you. Good luck and happy gaming!
1) Used Games:
The only thing that confuses me is: I will still be able to sell the hard copy (if purchased) to Gamestop or whatever company is deemed worthy? If so, then I don't see what the issue here is. So they dictate which stores to sell to, not that there are many used game stores other than the ones listed anyways, but at least one can still sell them!
2) Game Sharing:
In my opinion, I find this not to be a problem. Maybe because I shun most of the human race. I do live with roommates who have similar gaming interests however, so letting them play my games (and vice versa) works for me.
3) 24hr Offline Time:
Again, this isn't a huge problem for me. Yes I may have to dine on dog food every once in a while just to pay for internet, but hey at least I'm not bored! (haha) Also, I have a theory on why they did this. When the console is connected, it serches for updates and patches and such, right?. This could alleviate that 'Day 1 update' that many of us are plagued with. In fact, it may even solve the entire issue of downloading updates. If one could set it so that it automatically logs in during the time when one is sleeping or at work, then those updates could be downloaded and installed, ready to go when one next logs in. To me, being able to pop in a disk and immediately play is worth the hassle. As an added bonus I don't even have to log on, the console does it for me! This could ALMOST be a benefit.... *takes cover*
4) The Evil Spying Kinect:
Now this is the topic that REALLY burns me. First of all, since when did Microsoft, the Government, or ANY company for that matter take an intrest in what some random Joe Schmoe does with his free time? These companies couldn't give one flying flip about you, or me, or whoever decides to purchase this console. (Besides, if they really wanted to watch you they are probably doing it right now and you have done something to get yourself noticed. Like murder or money laundering.) And yes, I am well aware of the recent Verizon scandal. I myself am a Verizon customer and I just don't care. Because I have nothing, as with most people, that the government wants to know about. Yes it is a shame, but the world keeps spinning and I'm still here so life goes on. *deep breath* But I digress.
Second, if one really has an issue with the Kinect, it has been confirmed that one could just turn it off. Problem solved. And just in case one is really paranoid, then just turn the sensor so it faces a wall. Then it won't be able to "watch" one sit on the couch, take naps, or whatever interesting thing one does in front of their gaming console.
6) Features:
Crunchyroll, Netflix, and Hulu. MUCH cheaper than cable. Nuff said.
10) Price:
Yes, the Xbone is $100 more than the PS4. But let's take a trip back to when the PS3 and 360 first came out. Their roles were reversed, and yet many people flocked to the PS3. As time went on both consoles became cheaper, just as it will be with these consoles. If you want one, yet can't afford it, then either wait until the inevitable price drop or get a summer job. As the Law of Alchemy states, one cannot gain something without first sacrificing something of equal value... *hides again*
I think that about sums it up. Whether or not you buy the Xbone, PS4, or neither is ulitimately up to you. Don't just listen to the ramblings on either side and just assume they are crap. Do your own research, and find out what fits for you. Good luck and happy gaming!
You explained why maybe the 360 features make it not as shitty as we thought, but explained none of how it's better than current day consoles.
My Reasons to buy no xbone:
Calling home. Yeah, no. Not without my permission and even then, you'd have to give me something for it. On the PC, if you give me a game that calls home instead of having DRM software, maybe i'll buy that particular game.
And that is pretty much it, really. I don't care much about hardware, i have a PC that plays games with excellent graphics. If i see a game that demands too much of my hardware and i really really want to play it, then i'll think about new hardware.
I'd be annoyed with the kinect that i wouldn't want. Friends bought a wii and got tired of it fast, leaving it to gather dust. It'd be a huge step forward if the thing worked half as reliably as the push of a button.
And i wont buy sony's box either. Social media integration? I'm not a social person! I'm old, leave me alone!
Frankly, this new console generation hasn't shown me anything that couldn't have been done with the current one better Graphics? Not much. I think the "jump" from the performance of the first few games to the games of now might be bigger and i didn't have to pay for that. Look at "Oblivion" on the 360 and then at "Skyrim" on the same console.
I might be buying a wii u eventually. If they make some games that interest me. The other two companies would have to give me money before i touch their machines. Nintendo might be onto something there by making an actual game console to play videogames on it.
I don't want a multimedia center machine thing that takes over my living room. It'd be better if i take media center OS and slap it onto a PC and use that. More comfortable in use (not in the installation, i freely admit that) since i don't have to run a cable to the thing for internet or move it around so it can reach Wlan better. I'd have a remote and would switch through big lists of any media i'd put on there and play it from the harddrive. Which can be the biggest one on the market whenever i see fit to buy it.
After the disaster that was the first generation of xbox360, i do not trust the people at microsoft to build a machine good enough to do anything. I'd rather pour a 1000 bucks into a media system before i buy a pile of scrap electronics from that company.
But i don't even have to. Firstly, all the parts to build a PC that would play all the media in all the formats and resolutions are already here. You don't need a top of the line machine for that.
Secondly, i don't even have to make such a machine since i watch all my stuff on the computer i'm sitting at now. My own multimedia center, configured to my likings better then microsoft could ever do even if their hardware didn't suck.
Calling home. Yeah, no. Not without my permission and even then, you'd have to give me something for it. On the PC, if you give me a game that calls home instead of having DRM software, maybe i'll buy that particular game.
And that is pretty much it, really. I don't care much about hardware, i have a PC that plays games with excellent graphics. If i see a game that demands too much of my hardware and i really really want to play it, then i'll think about new hardware.
I'd be annoyed with the kinect that i wouldn't want. Friends bought a wii and got tired of it fast, leaving it to gather dust. It'd be a huge step forward if the thing worked half as reliably as the push of a button.
And i wont buy sony's box either. Social media integration? I'm not a social person! I'm old, leave me alone!
Frankly, this new console generation hasn't shown me anything that couldn't have been done with the current one better Graphics? Not much. I think the "jump" from the performance of the first few games to the games of now might be bigger and i didn't have to pay for that. Look at "Oblivion" on the 360 and then at "Skyrim" on the same console.
I might be buying a wii u eventually. If they make some games that interest me. The other two companies would have to give me money before i touch their machines. Nintendo might be onto something there by making an actual game console to play videogames on it.
I don't want a multimedia center machine thing that takes over my living room. It'd be better if i take media center OS and slap it onto a PC and use that. More comfortable in use (not in the installation, i freely admit that) since i don't have to run a cable to the thing for internet or move it around so it can reach Wlan better. I'd have a remote and would switch through big lists of any media i'd put on there and play it from the harddrive. Which can be the biggest one on the market whenever i see fit to buy it.
After the disaster that was the first generation of xbox360, i do not trust the people at microsoft to build a machine good enough to do anything. I'd rather pour a 1000 bucks into a media system before i buy a pile of scrap electronics from that company.
But i don't even have to. Firstly, all the parts to build a PC that would play all the media in all the formats and resolutions are already here. You don't need a top of the line machine for that.
Secondly, i don't even have to make such a machine since i watch all my stuff on the computer i'm sitting at now. My own multimedia center, configured to my likings better then microsoft could ever do even if their hardware didn't suck.
It isn't up to you to decide if others believe your opinion is "correct".mKeRix said:
That's their decision.
Sounds more like you saying the Xbone being shit doesn't bother you than it actually not being shit.
Actually, a lot. I don't know about the government, but big companies would kill for that kind of information. Why do you think focus groups are a thing? If they actually were able to know exactly what your daily habits were - what kind you TV shows you watch, where you shop, buy food, etc. they'd have way more accurate data to go by than focus groups.CinosNroca said:
Obviously the extent to which your Kinect can spy on you is heavily dependent on what room you have your Xbone in, and Microsoft probably isn't spying on you anyway, but it's the possibility that scares people. If there's a suspicious hole in your bathroom wall it doesn't matter if you're pretty sure there's no one there, but you're gonna worry that there is.
Hey, update on the whole "Family thing." Evidently Microsoft doesn't care whether or not it's actual family members as long as they're all part of a "family group," so people have already been forming "families" online on forums and stuff, and Microsoft is evidently okay with that.
The catch is that only two people at any time can be playing one game - the person who originally bought it can play, and one other person can play a "shared" copy - so people who have large families or live in a frat house or whatever who wanted to buy multiple Xbones and think the whole house can play with just one copy of the game are a little out of luck, but otherwise it's still some good news....?
The catch is that only two people at any time can be playing one game - the person who originally bought it can play, and one other person can play a "shared" copy - so people who have large families or live in a frat house or whatever who wanted to buy multiple Xbones and think the whole house can play with just one copy of the game are a little out of luck, but otherwise it's still some good news....?
Just as advance warning I dislike the Xbone for similar reasons that have been stated by the mass collective, so my responses are informed by that.
Also, if EA goes back on its statement and includes online passes for the PS4, they'll receive even more flak. And I think that's a good thing.
Just my reactions, I don't know much more than what I've just said so any elaboraion would likely teach me something new.
There's not much that can be said, I think, on this particular topic. You're right, in both cases the publishers have the power to screw used games over as best they can, and if they want to they most certainly will regardless of whether the console manufacturer likes it or not. Whag I personally dislike about the Xbone is that its allowance for publishers of the specific option is a bit of unspoken support for the potential of these practices with less effort on the behalf of the publisher, whereas for other consoles the publishers had to exert more effort in the form of online passcodes to get their way.mKeRix said:
Also, if EA goes back on its statement and includes online passes for the PS4, they'll receive even more flak. And I think that's a good thing.
Before now, I actually didn't know about this, and since I'm very ignorant about this particular part of the console I'm not in a good position to discuss it at length. Still, from what it sounds like it seems fair, though I have a feeling that there'll be another facet of this I dislike. The ten friends limit also sounds fair aince I seriously doubt anyone would have more than ten people they intend to share games with.
Agreed. Moving on.
In regards to spying, I've not a clue one way or another. However, I do strongly dislike the fact we need to buy the kinect along with the console because it sort of speaks to this idea that the consumer isn't given much choice. If the extra $100 are for the kinect then fair enough on the price point, but I still don't see why it should be required anyway. If it's for a universal compatibility thing, thrn there has to be another way to integrate that rather than shovel an unwanted add-on to the main console. As for trying new things, the kinect has been tried for a long time now - and a lot of people don't like it. So why, then, make it required?
Don't know a thing about hardware. As for cloud software, I'm not sure the entire gaming audience is ready for it yet. Maybe in a few decades when the cloud is more accessible (as in, broadband is stronger and more widespread) it might be the next revolutionary light bulb, but until then just meh,
As much as I don't want to bring others into this, but Mr. Sterling's first Jimquisition on the Xbone encapsulated the problems with its extra features. All the other things it does can already be done on other devices and particularly with its tv features. A lot of tvs do that anyway. Granted the Xbone is cheaper than some tvs, but you'll be buying both the console and the screen.
Personally I always found the Xbox controllers too big for my hands, but this is a highly subjective thing and not really worth berating a console over.
Agreed. Moving on.
My take on exclusives - personally that is, I can't speak for anyone else - is that they're no deal sealer or breaker. They may be good games, sure, but there are always plenty of other good ones and no one needs to play every game that cacthes their attention. Besides, looking and sounding good these days is no guarantee of quality it seems.
Both the Kinect and other features I've talked about previously, I don't know about gold so I can't speak on that matter. Microsoft has every right to price it at what they think it's worth, fair enough, but it's also fair for people like me to look at it and say it's not worth it and shell out for something cheaper.
Just my reactions, I don't know much more than what I've just said so any elaboraion would likely teach me something new.
I completely agree that the Xbox One overall mega hate is not right. I have 2 big issues with it though.
The game DRM forcing you to register to an account thing. They're trying to force people into a transition into PC style digital games one step at a time, and I think this is a much bigger step than gamers want to make at this point. Last gen made a nice effort toward the end with day 1 digital and sales every so often, but I think they need to make smaller steps than what's happening with the 360 to the One. Yes I know you can share games with people on your "family" list and you and 1 other person can play a game at a time, and you can "give" someone a game ONCE, and there are the "registered" retail with used games, and it's great and all but look at the big picture. As far as we know, these "registered" used game retailers will be gamestop (and region equivalent) and that's it. How many places this gen can you go to buy used games? Not to mention rentals. Decisions like this (unless microsoft has thought of a way they aren't telling us) could cause issues to redbox, family video, gamefly, and more. Wasn't that one of the biggest arguments of console vs pc was the ease of entry? Having to jump through more hoops to play games as if it was through a pc could cause frustration and confusion with people. I believe there is still a gen or two of consoles (if we even get that far) before we can have fully digital consoles, or everyone just goes to pc gaming. There are 2 reasons that Valve can get away with fully digital and a DRM locked system. Name recognition and trust (valve has been doing this going on 10 years now), and the deals. If people couldn't get a large majority of their libraries for insane discounts, I don't think pc gaming would be as successful as it is.
The other thing is this business with keeping indies in a closed system. The news being that microsoft requiring indies to have publishers to be on the system is a little absurd when it's competition is saying the opposite. Between PC, Wii U, and PS4, indies have places to go to self publish. They aren't going to go through a publisher to get on a closed system with less benefits. There are two past events explaining why this is a problem.
First is Ronimo and Awesomenauts. Awesomenauts was originally released on Xbox 360 and PS3 with great success. They needed a publisher to do this. Why did they then release on PC and not patch on consoles in a year? Because of costs and their publisher. Ronimo brought this up a year ago on their forum (http://www.awesomenauts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6781) saying console patching was extremely expensive and their publisher couldn't afford it, and in the opposing end, the Steam version was self published and cheap to patch and fix. Granted, we don't know if for next gen if companies will fix the patching cost issue, but still if a dev is stuck with a small publisher that can't afford it, they're still shit out of luck.
The other story was with Fez, and a similar situation. On launch, there was a game breaking bug. They went ahead and patched it, but it deleted game saves of people close to the end of the game. They ended up removing the patch. Later, they brought the patch back online claiming they refused to fix it for a few reasons. They claimed that it didn't affect very many people, and it only affected those who were at the end of the game already. Their reasoning? Apparently they had to get an update certified with microsoft and that was going to take huge amounts of money and time they weren't willing to invest. The game is now on PC and I believe this issue is fixed (don't quote me on that, I haven't looked into it yet), but this is a problem that everyone except for microsoft is fixing next gen.
Let me know if I got any of this wrong btw.
Also, I'm not saying the Xbox One is truly bad or any other next gen console is good, I'm just saying these two are such extreme deal breakers for me.
The game DRM forcing you to register to an account thing. They're trying to force people into a transition into PC style digital games one step at a time, and I think this is a much bigger step than gamers want to make at this point. Last gen made a nice effort toward the end with day 1 digital and sales every so often, but I think they need to make smaller steps than what's happening with the 360 to the One. Yes I know you can share games with people on your "family" list and you and 1 other person can play a game at a time, and you can "give" someone a game ONCE, and there are the "registered" retail with used games, and it's great and all but look at the big picture. As far as we know, these "registered" used game retailers will be gamestop (and region equivalent) and that's it. How many places this gen can you go to buy used games? Not to mention rentals. Decisions like this (unless microsoft has thought of a way they aren't telling us) could cause issues to redbox, family video, gamefly, and more. Wasn't that one of the biggest arguments of console vs pc was the ease of entry? Having to jump through more hoops to play games as if it was through a pc could cause frustration and confusion with people. I believe there is still a gen or two of consoles (if we even get that far) before we can have fully digital consoles, or everyone just goes to pc gaming. There are 2 reasons that Valve can get away with fully digital and a DRM locked system. Name recognition and trust (valve has been doing this going on 10 years now), and the deals. If people couldn't get a large majority of their libraries for insane discounts, I don't think pc gaming would be as successful as it is.
The other thing is this business with keeping indies in a closed system. The news being that microsoft requiring indies to have publishers to be on the system is a little absurd when it's competition is saying the opposite. Between PC, Wii U, and PS4, indies have places to go to self publish. They aren't going to go through a publisher to get on a closed system with less benefits. There are two past events explaining why this is a problem.
First is Ronimo and Awesomenauts. Awesomenauts was originally released on Xbox 360 and PS3 with great success. They needed a publisher to do this. Why did they then release on PC and not patch on consoles in a year? Because of costs and their publisher. Ronimo brought this up a year ago on their forum (http://www.awesomenauts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6781) saying console patching was extremely expensive and their publisher couldn't afford it, and in the opposing end, the Steam version was self published and cheap to patch and fix. Granted, we don't know if for next gen if companies will fix the patching cost issue, but still if a dev is stuck with a small publisher that can't afford it, they're still shit out of luck.
The other story was with Fez, and a similar situation. On launch, there was a game breaking bug. They went ahead and patched it, but it deleted game saves of people close to the end of the game. They ended up removing the patch. Later, they brought the patch back online claiming they refused to fix it for a few reasons. They claimed that it didn't affect very many people, and it only affected those who were at the end of the game already. Their reasoning? Apparently they had to get an update certified with microsoft and that was going to take huge amounts of money and time they weren't willing to invest. The game is now on PC and I believe this issue is fixed (don't quote me on that, I haven't looked into it yet), but this is a problem that everyone except for microsoft is fixing next gen.
Let me know if I got any of this wrong btw.
Also, I'm not saying the Xbox One is truly bad or any other next gen console is good, I'm just saying these two are such extreme deal breakers for me.
Summed up very, very well- thanks. I lol'ed a bit at the OP's price argument. +20% is not "essentially the same" for something that's a couple of hundred dollars. For me, I was seeing the Xbox One, knowing I didn't want it, and waiting for the BOHICA announcement from Sony on their price, and low and behold, it's freaking cheaper, and the hardware is more powerful, and it, y'know, well see above. Sony has one this one. Gravitating more toward PC gaming during this generation, the PS4 might bring me back to the console a bit.FargoDog said:
Also- am I the only one who occasionally takes my console when I'm on vacation (depending on where I'm going)? The design of the Xbox One doesn't seem very friendly to that sort of thing, then again nor was the 360, or the PS3 until the last version of it came out. Also, the 24-hour-check-in, Microsoft already made quite clear where they stand on a user who may be wanting to use their console's single player content whilst out of internet coverage, when they announced that they have a console for that, the 360.
I wasn't planning on buying an Xbone anyway, but this was one question I had in regards to the sharing. I knew there was no way in hell 10 people could all play a game at the same time from only one purchase, and I doubted that more than one person could play the game at a time. Can you post a source for this information? If only one person could play at a time, how is the license handled? I'm assuming the owner could kick off someone else at any time to play the game they purchased, but then, what if they couldn't?? Or if the two person limit described above is true, if one friend is constantly playing a game and never disconnects, is it possible to kick them out remotely to give someone else a shot at the game? Can different friends all play different games from the shared library at the same time, or can only one game be accessed at a time? I'm hoping the source you are referring to answers some of these, because I am curious.Gatx said:
I've always intended to go for a PS4 next generation, simply because of the past track record I have had with Sony's platforms. I have found them to have a wider range of exclusive titles, a (for me) better feeling controller, and a machine that statisically has fewer failures. I rarely play multiplayer titles, but I have already been using the PS+ program and find it very rewarding and I have been able to download and play numerous titles (Spec Ops, Darksiders, Deus Ex: HR, Uncharted: Golden Abyss, Gravity Rush) that I otherwise would not have due to finances, with many more titles to come and some extra savings on the PS Store. Microsoft has given me no reason to change my plans, and at least a few reasons to stick with them.
OP - Good on you trying to at least dispel some of the rumors that are making the Xbone seem worse than it really is, but I still find the system to be a step or ten in the wrong direction, as to me it seems to focus more on what is good for the corporations rather than the consumers. It also seems to be attempting to force things on the consumer that many have already stated they do not want.
I'm not going to buy the Xbox One anytime soon, but I'll probably buy the PS4 on day one. I dislike a lot of the major things about the Xbox One (mandatory internet connection, mandatory Kinect, stream-lining DRM for publishers), but I like a lot of what it's bringing to the table, too. Like the television stuff. From what they've advertised so far, the user interface to switch and combine applications looks pretty damn nifty. Mind you, I'm going to assume Kinect isn't going to work as well as they advertise (Voice recognition still sucks across the board, no company is doing it well because of how complicated human language is). And the Xbox One still has games coming. Look at Sunset Overdrive. That's fucking Insomniac Games. You can never go wrong with the creators of Ratchet and Clank.
Even though I really, really dislike the Xbox One, I think Microsoft hit the nail on the head. I believe it's going to outsell the PS4. It's going to grab the mass market like the Wii did. Cable and internet companies are going to give away Xbox Ones as incentives for subscribing. It will become the new CoD box. Everybody will buy it. Even the hardcore gamer will buy it. Maybe not within the first year, but definitely within the second when Halo 5 comes out. And I'm going to buy one. And I'm still going to hate it.
Even though I really, really dislike the Xbox One, I think Microsoft hit the nail on the head. I believe it's going to outsell the PS4. It's going to grab the mass market like the Wii did. Cable and internet companies are going to give away Xbox Ones as incentives for subscribing. It will become the new CoD box. Everybody will buy it. Even the hardcore gamer will buy it. Maybe not within the first year, but definitely within the second when Halo 5 comes out. And I'm going to buy one. And I'm still going to hate it.
Unless they've backtracked on what they said, then you can't turn it off just set it to sleep mode. All it takes it a specific voice command to get it working. So, it's still on. Still listening.mKeRix said:
What is this "Cloud Computing"? Would you mind explaining it to me? And does the PS4 definitely not have it or have they just not mentioned it.
Beside's from what I gather it doesn't make the console run better or increase what it's games will do, merely store information. Am I wrong?
Well when you put it that way, sure it makes sense. Not arguing that spying is good here, but if companies had better data to base their products off of, wouldn't we all benefit from that? Maybe Microsoft should spy on people, then at least they would figure out how to make the perfect console! (lol)Gatx said: