Why you MUST not use an ad blocker - unless you want to pay for content

[bdcjacko]

At work I'm running something called Panda anti-virus + *snip*

If it's a personal computer you use there, get either AVG, NOD32 or commonsense Anti-Virus, and if you use Firefox I strongly recommend getting the NoScript addon. At first it'll seem annoying, but once you allow scripts for all your favourite/regular sites like The Escapist or Youtube or whatever, it's really the best protection Firefox has to offer from malware and cross site scripting especially.

Sorry to go off-topic!

At home I use McAfee and still have a year plus on top of using firefox. At work panda (because that is what work decided) and firefox.

My point is 2 fold:
1) I enjoy the escapist and want to support them so I joined their club, but since I have gotten really nasty viruses on regular sites I enjoy, I'm keeping the set up I have and typically will pay premiums or merch from sites I enjoy to support them.

2) I enjoy arguing.

 

[yundex]

And now, let's put the cart in front of the horse.

Spotted a blog post that said, essentually, encouraging people to disable their ad-blockers is stealing from advertisers. [http://www.pcgamingstandards.com/Blog.aspx?blogid=11] Go forth and pick holes.

(Talking about putting the cart in front of the horse, my current adverts on this page: The Escapist Store and Extra Credits. Huh.)

Well that looks like great website for game fixes in the future, thanks for the link.

 

[Wolfenbarg]

And now, let's put the cart in front of the horse.

Spotted a blog post that said, essentually, encouraging people to disable their ad-blockers is stealing from advertisers. [http://www.pcgamingstandards.com/Blog.aspx?blogid=11] Go forth and pick holes.

(Talking about putting the cart in front of the horse, my current adverts on this page: The Escapist Store and Extra Credits. Huh.)

There is no information there, it's just speculation. Ad blocking doesn't count it as a view. Most of these advertisers pay for the views and calculate it in a cost per thousand views or CPM. Less views mean that the content creator gets less revenue despite the number of views. Maybe the advertiser reaps some benefits out of this (though I don't see how less eyes is a good thing) but the content creator is still getting screwed. It DOES put their content at risk.

 

[cobra_ky]

Now I completely agree that artists deserve to be compensated for their work. But advertisers deserve jack shit from us. They're lucky I allow them to peddle their crap to me. They aren't providing a valuable service. They don't entertain me. They don't enrich my life in any way. So when you ask us to support them, I have absolutely zero inclination to do so. Incidentally I'd be far more sympathetic if you had asked us to support you directly.

Compensate creators?

You choose to host files publicly on the internet.

This is like painting on a wall and then asking people to pay for your brushes. You created the content before people can pay for it, its a risky situation.

What you're saying is this: I paint a mural. You love to look at the mural, and you look at it every week. It brings a smile to your face. So I say, "hey, would you mind throwing a couple of bucks into my hat since you like my work so much?" and you respond with "fuck you, I can look at it for free because you painted it outside!"

And he'd be absolutely right. Unnecessarily rude, but factually correct. If you want to make money off your mural, then paint it indoors and charge people to see it. If you're going to base your business on the honor system, don't be surprised when some people choose to be dishonorable.

If you really care that much about being compensated for your work, then make it a Pub Club exclusive. Then the people who are willing to compensate you will do so, and the ones who aren't will leave.

I'll reiterate what I've said already: There are ways to sell ads without relying on pageloads. There are ways to make money on content without advertising. If you're not happy with how much you're getting paid for your work, find a way to make more. I don't think begging people to expose their systems to unknown, potentially dangerous code is particularly effective.

 

[bdcjacko]

It's similar to the newspaper: you read the paper for instant information. Hey, the newspaper's got ads too, doesn't it? But is it obtrusive? Does it cover half the content and forces you to wait until it disappears? No. You are free to ignore it if you want - or check the ads, if you prefer that.

Have you read a newspaper lately? It is nothing but ads and the articles are crap. Why because no one reads the paper anymore. So bad example.

 

[Lady Kathleen]

Artists can't expect to be repayed. Artists can't demand to be repayed.

Then why can a plumber demand to be paid? You watched my video, he fixed your sink. The difference between these two transactions is that I expect you to view the ads my website shows as a form of payment, he wants cash in kind. You don't have to watch my video, and you don't have to call a plumber - the point is, by watching a video, or having a plumber come to your house, you've entered into an implicit contract to get something from us (entertainment/plumbing) you couldn't provide yourself.

When you don't view the ads, you're not completing your part of the contract. You could do something else, like buy a t-shirt, a pub club membership, or donate some money, but when you don't do any of that, even though this is a COMMERCIAL offering (indicated by the ads on the site) you're taking away my ability to offset my costs/make money.

If you don't want to pay for it in some way, don't watch the video. Don't go to the website.

Regardless of how you phrase your argument, you keep saying the same thing: art is worthless to you. The time and effort it takes to make entertainment is not of value to you, because you don't believe that people who make it deserve to be compensated in any way for their efforts. You should be able to view it for free, and not complete your part of the contract. If you don't value the contributions of people who make it, don't come to a website.

 

[Wolfenbarg]

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You haven't even attempted to read my post.

Artists can't expect to be repayed. Artists can't demand to be repayed. The Escapist and LRR are demanding their viewers reimburse them. If they make something great and get money, good on them, I support that fully.

"And how dare you and anyone else demand to be paid for something they spend their lives doing for a living."
Yes how dare they. No-one has the right to make money without the law behind them. No-one has the right to demand money if consumers do not want to give it to them. I'm the self entitled one? Jesus christ.

I don't know what it is with this site but there sure are a lot of people who like being told how to behave.

I don't really see anything to argue against with your post. Its all a very convincing emotionally charged dribble. Well played, I really felt sympathetic for the LRR crew. They have to work jobs? :O OMG how will they have time to act out their less than ten minute videos?

They kept doing it for seven years without money? Why would that convince any of their viewers to pay them?

If I've missed anything I'm sorry, feel free to point it out.

Yes, I did read you post. Saying that I didn't doesn't make you any less wrong.

Once again, why can't artists expect to be paid for their work? This is where you make zero sense in this matter. These aren't street performers begging for a cookie, these are professionals that are licensed by a professional website. That professional website only licenses videos because they expect to continue functioning on ad-revenue, just like any television program expects to be paid by their advertisers to continue working.

The Escapist only licenses videos because of the ad-revenue sharing model. Yes, they expect to be paid just like a television program expects to be paid by their advertisers. The main difference is that in this medium they actually have data to count the views. The lower the views, the less they get paid. I don't see how you support them making money when you also support cutting off the means to which they make money all while claiming they put it up for free. They didn't, they put it up with ads. The price of entrance is suffering through the ad, even if you completely tune it out.

Yes, you're the self entitled one. You seem to be forgetting that in the case of those that use ad-blockers, they are partaking in the service. They CHOSE to view the video, but then at the same time they chose to block an arbitrary pay model. If it was a choice to view an ad, then you and I would be on the exact same page. However, the ad is in the code, therefore the people who are blocking it are the dishonest and self-entitled ones, not the people who should by all rights be paid for their work.

You realize that a lot of work goes into those 'less than five minute videos' right? Scripts have to be written and approved by the crew, and everything is done in more than one take. This isn't a television model where they have months to film on the off season and then come back and show everything in sequence. The entire production process goes forth for three shows plus the Crapshots on youtube, their podcasts, and managing their own website. That's all on top of having jobs on the side. The pros on the television end that manage week to week shows have huge crews and budgets to manage them. Way to trivialize.

Overall, the point that doesn't seem to make sense is that you are under the assumption that it's a choice whether or not consumers should pay them. The Escapist chose a pay model that REQUIRES its viewers to watch ads in order to view their licensed content. By violating that pay model, you are assuring the Escapist and whatever show is running isn't being paid for your view. It may seem annoying and arbitrary, but violating someone's chosen pay structure is wrong.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Everybody that has Ad blocker, here is a handy guide which I suggest you follow and do with The Escapist
http://www.devcha.com/2007/08/how-to-disable-adblock-plus-or.html

Anybody condoning or promoting Adblocking software or plugins on this site will receive Mod Wrath.

Edit: You don't have to click the ad for it to register, its called page views and using Ad Blocking plugins will stop that View, this site needs you to view the adverts.

~ColdStorage

I must inquire why it is we shall receive "mod wrath" for admittance to using adblocking plugins? This is ultimately a public website with limited restrictions and last I recall, discussion of adblocking was not amongst them. Granted, I suppose I can appreciate the necessity of them however this abrupt and essential threat insinuates ulterior motives, as in you dislike adblocking plugins not because blocking ads equates to less profit for those respective companies, but more because a premium membership account removes ads from this website and would be an enticing feature. Such a benefit is regulated by the wayside thanks to a free add on. Dislike and discourage the usage of adblocking? Certainly. Threaten people who disagree? I find suspect.

Suffice it to say, it certainly portrays a negative light and one I presume was not the intent. Then again, perhaps it was...

 

[bdcjacko]

Artists can't expect to be repayed. Artists can't demand to be repayed.

Then why can a plumber demand to be paid? You watched my video, he fixed your sink. The difference between these two transactions is that I expect you to view the ads my website shows as a form of payment, he wants cash in kind. You don't have to watch my video, and you don't have to call a plumber - the point is, by watching a video, or having a plumber come to your house, you've entered into an implicit contract to get something from us (entertainment/plumbing) you couldn't provide yourself.

When you don't view the ads, you're not completing your part of the contract. You could do something else, like buy a t-shirt, a pub club membership, or donate some money, but when you don't do any of that, even though this is a COMMERCIAL offering (indicated by the ads on the site) you're taking away my ability to offset my costs/make money.

If you don't want to pay for it in some way, don't watch the video. Don't go to the website.

Regardless of how you phrase your argument, you keep saying the same thing: art is worthless to you. The time and effort it takes to make entertainment is not of value to you, because you don't believe that people who make it deserve to be compensated in any way for their efforts. You should be able to view it for free, and not complete your part of the contract. If you don't value the contributions of people who make it, don't come to a website.

While I feel for you, and completely see your point. But people have been finding ways to enjoy art without paying artist a dime since the beginning of time. I mean that is why you hear the phrase starving artist, not starving plumber. I mean look at how fat Mario is, if you wanted to make money, should have been a plumber. They make tons of cast, I know, I do book work for a plumber.

That being said, it is underhanded to start this conversation and start banning and putting people on probation for giving their side of the argument.

BTW, I joined the pub club and purchased stuff your store. So I'm trying to support the site.

 

[bdcjacko]

Everybody that has Ad blocker, here is a handy guide which I suggest you follow and do with The Escapist
http://www.devcha.com/2007/08/how-to-disable-adblock-plus-or.html

Anybody condoning or promoting Adblocking software or plugins on this site will receive Mod Wrath.

Edit: You don't have to click the ad for it to register, its called page views and using Ad Blocking plugins will stop that View, this site needs you to view the adverts.

~ColdStorage

I must inquire why it is we shall receive "mod wrath" for admittance to using adblocking plugins? This is ultimately a public website with limited restrictions and last I recall, discussion of adblocking was not amongst them. Granted, I suppose I can appreciate the necessity of them however this abrupt and essential threat insinuates ulterior motives, as in you dislike adblocking plugins not because blocking ads equates to less profit for those respective companies, but more because a premium membership account removes ads from this website and would be an enticing feature. Such a benefit is regulated by the wayside thanks to a free add on. Dislike and discourage the usage of adblocking? Certainly. Threaten people who disagree? I find suspect.

Suffice it to say, it certainly portrays a negative light and one I presume was not the intent. Then again, perhaps it was...

They give out probation and ban people if they admit to using ad block. I know from experience from this very thread.

 

[DigitalSushi]

Everybody that has Ad blocker, here is a handy guide which I suggest you follow and do with The Escapist
http://www.devcha.com/2007/08/how-to-disable-adblock-plus-or.html

Anybody condoning or promoting Adblocking software or plugins on this site will receive Mod Wrath.

Edit: You don't have to click the ad for it to register, its called page views and using Ad Blocking plugins will stop that View, this site needs you to view the adverts.

~ColdStorage

I must inquire why it is we shall receive "mod wrath" for admittance to using adblocking plugins? This is ultimately a public website with limited restrictions and last I recall, discussion of adblocking was not amongst them. Granted, I suppose I can appreciate the necessity of them however this abrupt and essential threat insinuates ulterior motives, as in you dislike adblocking plugins not because blocking ads equates to less profit for those respective companies, but more because a premium membership account removes ads from this website and would be an enticing feature. Such a benefit is regulated by the wayside thanks to a free add on. Dislike and discourage the usage of adblocking? Certainly. Threaten people who disagree? I find suspect.

Suffice it to say, it certainly portrays a negative light and one I presume was not the intent. Then again, perhaps it was...

I'd like you to read the Posting Guidelines, you can find them here;

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.116827-These-forums-and-you-Forum-Posting-Guidelines

I'd specifically like you to read the very last amendment which was added a long time ago

[li]Do not confess, teach, admit to, or promote ad-blocking software that will allow users to block the ads of this site. [/li]

This is a website in the public domain, but its ultimately owned by a Private company.

Think of it this way, this is a playground for you to swing on the swings and have fun for free providing you let us put small bill boards in the playground, and we will happily let you have fun in the playground and on the swings for as long as you like providing you don't rip the bill boards down because that pays for the maintenance of the playground.

 

[mirasiel]

Is this entire thread not promoting the existence and function of ad blocking software to people to people who may never have known of it otherwise?

Slightly amusing really.

 

[John Funk]

Hear hear, Ms. De Vere.

My word, I'm ap oet.

 

[The_Deleted]

I take absolutely no notice of ads on the net anyway. I come on the net to avoid the shit TV gives me. Ads included.
But recently I've had some graphic images comer up as ad bars over my usual sites, VG24-7, gamestm, etc. This is advertising some sex facebook site.
I have a five year old who's not afraid to ask questions.
Adblock has been downloaded.

 

[bdcjacko]

I take absolutely no notice of ads on the net anyway. I come on the net to avoid the shit TV gives me. Ads included.
But recently I've had some graphic images comer up as ad bars over my usual sites, VG24-7, gamestm, etc. This is advertising some sex facebook site.
I have a five year old who's not afraid to ask questions.
Adblock has been downloaded.

Do be surprised to get a probation notice because you mentioned you did. They don't care how legit the reason you might have done it. If you did, it is a capital offense in their eyes. They don't care if you got it to protect against viruses, keep your kids from seeing porn, or because it fills your computer with tracking cookies.

See that is the problems. If web ads were family appropriate and didn't have a nasty habit of ruining peoples computer, then we probably wouldn't complain as much. That is why it is dumb to compare internet ads to tv ads or paying a plumber like Kathleen did.

You hear that Kathleen? I might not need a plumber any more than I might not need your site. But paying a plumber isn't going to fill my house with plumbing supplies, set fire to my kitchen or expose my children to stripper the way internet ad fill my computer with tracking cookies, give me virus and have raunchy porn.

Until the internet ads can be harmless, you will have people using ad-blockers to keep their computers and families safe. Now the asses that just refuse to pay for thing because it isn't good enough for them. Well they are just asses and deserve the full wraith of moderation and the site policies.