Why you should support the "Other OS" Lawsuits.

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Danpascooch

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Apr 16, 2009
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omega 616 said:
LordZ said:
omega 616 said:
Talk about twisting my words, I never said that. I said, if murders can abuse the law like they have for centuries do you think this is going to change anything?
This really has no relation, so why would I expect it to? Who says I don't argue against other forms of injustice? Do you really think that just because Sony didn't murder or rape someone that I should stop caring?
It's picking your battles, getting amped up over something as worthless as this is a waste of effort. Get angry over something that matters. If you have a list of problems you start with the biggest not mess around with the little ones.

danpascooch said:
Who cares if he's lying, that doesn't make Sony's actions legal.
No company is squeeky clean and yet the world goes on turning and your non the wiser, in the grand scheme of unlawful things it's insignificant.

This thread has been a source of some good laughs.
I didn't choose to talk about this because it's the most important case out there, if you think we should all be worried about the most important thing at any given moment, then what the fuck are you still doing here, you should be raising money for cancer treatments or something.

I chose it because I think it's important, and it's on a topic that interests me.

If we always worried ourselves with the most important thing going on in the world at any given time, life wouldn't be worth living.
 

Flying Dagger

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Apr 14, 2009
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danpascooch said:
1.) How many times have you seen the Air Force sue a private company

2.) I still see no relevance to the argument that Sony did something illegal

3.) Linux is free software, there are no rights to it, and when somebody buy's a PS3, they own their own copies of the software, and the right to not have Sony decide they want to rip it apart.
When have you ever seen a company actively go against the wishes of the USAF?
Of course I don't live in america, I live in the UK, so I don't get updated on the legal news that often, But I'm fairly sure PR isn't the reason that the USAF don't start law suits.

I think we are having some problems with the rate at which we are replying, missing arguments and talking disjointedly.
The point is that sony will have next to no legal costs, until they can ask for a blank cheque to cover them. Think of ted in scrubs, only highly competent.

And there are rights to free software. Otherwise you'd be allowed to sell it. But that misses the point, (that phrase is becoming overused) sony owns the firmware, the rights to update that firmware, and the PSN. If they want to cut you off, they can do whatever.
 

Danpascooch

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Apr 16, 2009
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Text_D said:
Flying Dagger said:
Text_D said:
I have no faith that people who were too ignorant to read the entire OP or the entire thread are capable of reading and understanding my entire post before trying to pick apart some lines they don't like in quotes.
I did read the entire OP, I did read your entire post.

And here's my problem.
In some cases, the law is faulty.
In some cases, the law is right.
But it doesn't matter, because the law is not what is decided at a lawsuit.

Has the law been broken, or not?
That is what a lawsuit decides.

The law here, is firmly on the side of Sony.

Complain to your senator to change the law, or however it works in your country, but that's the way things are.

This lawsuit will go nowhere.
I don't know if you're really well-versed in law or not, but I hope that there's either no lawsuit, or that Sony loses. I think you're right about the fact that Sony isn't breaking a "hard law", but sometimes common sense prevails in the courtroom and sets a new precedent.

Because if someone sues and loses AGAINST Sony based on "hard law", companies like Apple and Microsoft will from then on be allowed to remove popular features if they ever become a security risk, even if it was advertised as a feature, simply because it's cheaper to remove rather than patch.
This is exactly my point, I am starting to believe that people just don't understand what legal precedent is.
 

Danpascooch

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Apr 16, 2009
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Flying Dagger said:
danpascooch said:
1.) How many times have you seen the Air Force sue a private company

2.) I still see no relevance to the argument that Sony did something illegal

3.) Linux is free software, there are no rights to it, and when somebody buy's a PS3, they own their own copies of the software, and the right to not have Sony decide they want to rip it apart.
When have you ever seen a company actively go against the wishes of the USAF?
Of course I don't live in america, I live in the UK, so I don't get updated on the legal news that often, But I'm fairly sure PR isn't the reason that the USAF don't start law suits.

I think we are having some problems with the rate at which we are replying, missing arguments and talking disjointedly.
The point is that sony will have next to no legal costs, until they can ask for a blank cheque to cover them. Think of ted in scrubs, only highly competent.

And there are rights to free software. Otherwise you'd be allowed to sell it. But that misses the point, (that phrase is becoming overused) sony owns the firmware, the rights to update that firmware, and the PSN. If they want to cut you off, they can do whatever.
They can only cut you off from things they haven't promised to you at the time of purchase unless it's something they have to actively maintain, that's what false advertising is.

I think you confuse UK law with US law, but my point is the USAF does not follow the same set of rules for suing as a citizen does, and you can't assume they aren't suing because they expect to lose.
 

Mark Kennard

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omega 616 said:
No company is squeeky clean and yet the world goes on turning and your non the wiser, in the grand scheme of unlawful things it's insignificant.

This thread has been a source of some good laughs.
Would people stop going about about it being 'insignificant'. People who think that are just egging Sony on to do more. If you keep ignoring it then you have what we have now: a console that is in no way what it was when it released. It is missing half the features of when it started and it's all because people kept saying 'it's not that big of a loss', well fine years of 'not that big of a loss' has now amounted to a huge loss and it has made the PS3 less and less of an appealing console.
 

Danpascooch

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Apr 16, 2009
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Flying Dagger said:
danpascooch said:
1.) How many times have you seen the Air Force sue a private company

2.) I still see no relevance to the argument that Sony did something illegal

3.) Linux is free software, there are no rights to it, and when somebody buy's a PS3, they own their own copies of the software, and the right to not have Sony decide they want to rip it apart.
When have you ever seen a company actively go against the wishes of the USAF?
Of course I don't live in america, I live in the UK, so I don't get updated on the legal news that often, But I'm fairly sure PR isn't the reason that the USAF don't start law suits.

I think we are having some problems with the rate at which we are replying, missing arguments and talking disjointedly.
The point is that sony will have next to no legal costs, until they can ask for a blank cheque to cover them. Think of ted in scrubs, only highly competent.

And there are rights to free software. Otherwise you'd be allowed to sell it. But that misses the point, (that phrase is becoming overused) sony owns the firmware, the rights to update that firmware, and the PSN. If they want to cut you off, they can do whatever.
You know, can we time out for a second, so I can tell you something.

I disagree with pretty much all of what you're saying, but you are one of the most mature posters that is against my argument I've seen here, if you still have things to say, I hope you stick around to say them, it's been a good debate.

Ok, back to the dogfight.
 

Danpascooch

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Apr 16, 2009
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It's a good thing this thread isn't any bigger than it already is, I can just BARELY keep up replying to everyone while still having time to breathe.

This must be what important people feel like :)
 

Mark Kennard

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Flying Dagger said:
When have you ever seen a company actively go against the wishes of the USAF?
Of course I don't live in america, I live in the UK, so I don't get updated on the legal news that often, But I'm fairly sure PR isn't the reason that the USAF don't start law suits.
The main thing is that it hasn't really affected them yet. It will only affect them when the console dies and they need to replace it or it needs repairs or they intend to set up nore systems.
 

LordZ

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omega 616 said:
It's picking your battles, getting amped up over something as worthless as this is a waste of effort. Get angry over something that matters. If you have a list of problems you start with the biggest not mess around with the little ones.
You may be fine with ignoring something that's wrong just because it's not "bad enough" to bother you but I refuse to look the other way. Just because you have low standards doesn't mean I have to lower mine.
 

jasoncyrus

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danpascooch said:
Hate to burst your legal bubble but if you are going to try justifying sueing sony because they took out a feature. You'll have to ***** out apple aswell. They've done pretty much almost exactly the same thing with their new restrictions on apps using only approved coding.

Also its a game console, not a car or anything important. Sueing over not being able to use another OS on it is stupid and proves you're just a money grubbing douchebag. If you want to use linux, buy a pc and put linux on it. Thats what linux was originally designed for. Plus, the airforce using the hardware for the clusters. I somewhat doubt they will be bothered much about giving a backhand to sony for clean PS3s.

Get over it, oh and grow up =)

EDIT: On a side note, it's pretty obvious anyone sueing sony is going to get banned from PSN, especially since they can ban you for whatever reason they like.
 

Text_D

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Flying Dagger said:
And there are rights to free software. Otherwise you'd be allowed to sell it.
I know that linux being free has nothing to do with the topic, but the GPL (license that lots of linux versions use) say that there are indeed NO rights, and as part of these NO rights, you ARE allowed to sell it. Ironic, isn't it?
 

LordZ

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omega 616 said:
So you game on PC, bought a PS3 for Linux (maybe a tiny big of gaming) and are now waiting for firmware to get Linux back, if that doesn't happen your going to sell it on ebay for full price? I apologize in advance but I am simply returning the favor, that plan fails.

Unless the PS3 is still boxed nobody will buy it full price, even thats unlikely. If your mainly a PC gamer, why would you need a part time PC? It doesn't make sense.

This thread has been a source of some good laughs, not at the people who have quoted me though.
I have a good reputation on eBay and that can be worth more than a box. Though, you're right, it's not guaranteed. I never said it was a perfect plan but I work with what I have.
 

Flying Dagger

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danpascooch said:
But you see, it's worse than that, people who do not agree to have the firmware removed lose the ability to play any new release PS3 games from this point onward.

It's not "we are exchanging ____ for ____" as per your grape analogy, it is "You have a choice, you can let us take away this feature, or we will take away these three other features" either way, you are losing something significant from a device that you ALREADY PAID FOR
You can exchange "running linux" for "running the default PS3 OS"
I assume. If you can't change back then you have actively lost something. But seeing as the installation of Linux does not delete the original OS, you would have had to purposely go and delete it. If that's even possible.

danpascooch said:
The law is not decided at a lawsuit, but something that is very near the equivalent happens.

The law is INTERPRETED

and that interpretation sets a legal precedent that has an effect almost as powerful as making a new law itself. If legal precedent is available when a case comes along, it is always factored into the decision of the court. It has immense power.
In england we do things slightly differently.
Then again, all of my experience is with UK criminal law, and I gave it up some time ago.

But I'll sum it up here, and get some sleep as it's nearing three in the morning for me.

These are absolutes:
1. though you are penalised, you can still access the Linux OS.
2. The "advertising," if you can call it that, did not clarify that you will have equal access as others do. It does say quite clearly
As Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCE) does not develop or directly support a version of Linux for the PS3? system,

...

Note that SCE does not provide any support for the installation and the use of Linux operating systems on a PS3? system
3. At no point was a PS3 sold while up to date advertising claimed it would run the linux OS, when it would not.

When these absolutes are interpretted into law, there can be only one conclusion.
You may not like this conclusion, but Sony has not committed False Advertising.

Maybe they have committed Unscrupulous Practice. I am not going to lay judgement on that, as it really depends how anti-piracy or pro-linux you are.
 

Flying Dagger

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Text_D said:
Flying Dagger said:
And there are rights to free software. Otherwise you'd be allowed to sell it.
I know that linux being free has nothing to do with the topic, but the GPL (license that lots of linux versions use) say that there are indeed NO rights, and as part of these NO rights, you ARE allowed to sell it. Ironic, isn't it?
Well you learn something new every day.
Really seems quite stupid, but in another sense means that no one can decide to charge for it.

It was only really an addendum in a list of three to make the list sound more impressive, it wasn't really central to the point I was originally making to begin with, as you do not even purchase Linux.
 

omega 616

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May 1, 2009
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Mark Kennard said:
omega 616 said:
No company is squeeky clean and yet the world goes on turning and your non the wiser, in the grand scheme of unlawful things it's insignificant.

This thread has been a source of some good laughs.
Would people stop going about about it being 'insignificant'. People who think that are just egging Sony on to do more. If you keep ignoring it then you have what we have now: a console that is in no way what it was when it released. It is missing half the features of when it started and it's all because people kept saying 'it's not that big of a loss', well fine years of 'not that big of a loss' has now amounted to a huge loss and it has made the PS3 less and less of an appealing console.
All I can say to you is "So don't buy it/keep it", don't like it don't buy it/keep it.

I have a phat 60 gig and couldn't be happier, don't care about Linux, I have backwards compatibility etc.

danpascooch said:
I didn't choose to talk about this because it's the most important case out there, if you think we should all be worried about the most important thing at any given moment, then what the fuck are you still doing here, you should be raising money for cancer treatments or something.

I chose it because I think it's important, and it's on a topic that interests me.

If we always worried ourselves with the most important thing going on in the world at any given time, life wouldn't be worth living.
Could you do me a favor and snip, haha.

You picked this? Linux? -.-

If you would have picked backwards compatibility, I would completely agree with you but since nobody but companies use Linux, I am stood on the opposite side.

Theres only a select few who can do anything with cancer helping the world, rich people and scientists, I am neither. I could spend my life rise money to the thing that took a family member (cancer) and still contribute less than one rich guy donates in one go for the tax break.

Hedonism is a beautiful thing.
 

BlindMessiah94

The 94th Blind Messiah
Nov 12, 2009
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danpascooch said:
Just to clarify, I mean the Lawsuits against Sony for removing the PS3's ability to use the Linux Operating System: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/99499-Sony-Removes-Other-OS-Option-for-PS3

I am going to break this down into a couple of sections, if you don't want to read a wall of text, leave now, because nobody is going to value your input if you don't bother to read the topic of the thread:

[HEADING=3]PART I: Why These Lawsuits Are Important[/HEADING]
It's not about about the money, it's about the precedent

There is a lot more at stake here than a few bucks, as digital media and online services expand, the need for clear legal precedents on the limits of an EULA and their interaction with the law is VITAL. These cases will set precedents on what companies are and are not allowed to do concerning EULA's and online services for years to come. If you EVER plan to click "agree" to ANY EULA in the future (believe me, you will) then this concerns you and your rights, whether you give a rat's ass about the "other OS" feature or not.

[HEADING=3]PART II: Irrelevant Arguments[/HEADING]
Lets not waste our time with anything irrelevant

Before we start the thread, let's take a moment to point out a dead end or two so that we don't waste time trudging through them.

1.) Advance Notice of Removing Linux.

A lot of debate has been going back and forth about how much advance notice Sony gave consumers. This is LEGALLY IRRELEVANT. If removing the Linux was legal, advance notice does not make it illegal. And if removing Linux was Illegal, advance notice does not make it legal, so don't waste your time arguing about how much notice Sony gave consumers, because it has no legal relevance.

2.) Sony is a Mega Corporation, they have too much power to lose this lawsuit.

A load of crap. If Mcdonald's (which is a bigger company than Sony) can lose a lawsuit involving a cup of hot coffee, then Sony is in no way immune to lawsuits or the law. Whether or not you think Sony did something illegal, don't for a second believe that their "power" will influence the decision.

3.) Who cares about the Linux functionality?

This is by far the most annoying legal argument I have heard about this case. It is as irrelevant as it is stupid. Sony either committed false advertising or they didn't, and whether you think the feature they claimed to have was important is completely irrelevant legally.

4.) Sony did it for a Good Reason

This is simply irrelevant legally, but I will indulge the users of this argument for a moment and offer my opinion.

In my opinion there is NO WAY that the ONLY way to plug this security hole was to completely remove Linux, absolutely no way. Recently people found they could find some credit cards from Google from the site Blippy: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/100216-Blippy-Blabs-Credit-Card-Numbers-All-Over-the-Internet

How did Google respond? Did they shut down the search engine? Did they remove Blippy completely from their database? Hell no, they plugged the security hole, as Sony could have with a patch if they were willing to spend the resources figuring out how to fix it.

The fact of the matter is, it is in Sony's best interest to scrap this feature even if there WASN'T a security risk, I think the hack attempt was simply an excuse. Sony loses money on every PS3 sold, but they gain it back in game sales. When groups like the United States Air Force purchase a bunch of PS3's in order to use them as server clusters with Linux, Sony loses money, so they jumped at the excuse to scrap the feature.

That said, all of this is irrelevant legally anyway.

[HEADING=3]PART III: Why the EULA is Also Irrelevant[/HEADING]
EULA's are a contract, and are not immune to the law

It's actually very simple, an EULA is a contract and no contract can be made that allows any entity to legally break the law. In other words: THE LAW COMES BEFORE THE EULA!

Knowing that, the same argument as to why the advance notice is irrelevant applies.

Either removing Linux caused Sony to be guilty of False advertising, and in that case the EULA does not protect them because they broke the law, or removing Linux did not cause Sony to break the law, in which case they don't even need the EULA to back them up.

Either way, what was said in the EULA changes nothing, so don't bother quoting it.

[HEADING=3]PART IV: Why I Believe Sony Committed False Advertising[/HEADING]
Simple: Sony said the PS3 had both functions, and now it doesn't

When these people bought the PS3, they bought it under the pretense that it has Linux capability, it was advertised to have that ability.

Now if Sony wants to take those capabilities away from something they sell in the future and take those statements out of their ads, that is fine. But they CANNOT do it retroactively. That would be like a car company no longer offering leather seats on a car, so they visit every person they sold that car with leather seats to, and rip the seats out of the car with no compensation.

It's a lot more simple than people are making it. These people have a product that does not have both Playstation Network and Linux Capability, yet they had an ad for the PS3 that says claims they did when these people bought it. That my friends. Is bare bones false advertising.

[HEADING=3]PART V: If You Tell me to "grow up" I'm going to punch you in the face[/HEADING]
And yes, I can punch you in the face over the internet, it's a new feature

Like I said before, this is not about petty grudges, or about money. Well, it is, but neither of those are even the smallest bit important compared to the precedent these cases will set. So whether you think the feature was important or not, you should care about this case, and the people involved, because it sets an important precedent in the expanding world of EULA's. I don't even use my PS3, and could care less about the loss of functionality, what I DO care about however, is holding companies responsible for their actions, and setting important legal precedents.

And you should too!

EDIT: A lot of people seem curious about why the United States Air Force were purchasing PS3's and using the Linux feature, you can get the full story at the link below. The Air Force is being hurt badly by this removal.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/100631-Air-Force-Might-Be-Troubled-by-PS3-Other-OS-Removal

EDIT2: Added a new irrelevant dead end argument to Part II

EDIT3: To avoid any further confusion, I am talking about the United States of America legal system and applicable laws, NOT the UK or any other country.

EDIT4:

[HEADING=3]Federal Trade Commission Policy Statement on Deceptive Advertising[/HEADING]
I. SUMMARY

Certain elements undergird all deception cases. First, there must be a representation, omission or practice that is likely to mislead the consumer.4 Practices that have been found misleading or deceptive in specific cases include false oral or written representations, misleading price claims, sales of hazardous or systematically defective products or services without adequate disclosures, failure to disclose information regarding pyramid sales, use of bait and switch techniques, failure to perform promised services, and failure to meet warranty obligations.5

Second, we examine the practice from the perspective of a consumer acting reasonably in the circumstances. If the representation or practice affects or is directed primarily to a particular group, the Commission examines reasonableness from the perspective of that group.

Third, the representation, omission, or practice must be a "material" one. The basic question is whether the act or practice is likely to affect the consumer's conduct or decision with regard to a product or service. If so, the practice is material, and consumer injury is likely, because consumers are likely to have chosen differently but for the deception. In many instances, materiality, and hence injury, can be presumed from the nature of the practice. In other instances, evidence of materiality may be necessary.

Thus, the Commission will find deception if there is a representation, omission or practice that is likely to mislead the consumer acting reasonably in the circumstances, to the consumer's detriment. We discuss each of these elements below.

Let's break this up shall we?

1.) "First, there must be a representation, omission or practice that is likely to mislead the consumer."

Well this is easy, the product was "represented" as having the ability to use Playstation Network and the ability to run Linux, and the "practice" of making the consumer choose between the two means that it was mis-"represented"

2.)"Second, we examine the practice from the perspective of a consumer acting reasonably in the circumstances."

Obviously it was reasonable to assume that buying the PS3 under pretense that it had Linux and PSN capability was reasonable, it was ON THE FREAKING BOX!

3.)"Third, the representation, omission, or practice must be a "material" one. The basic question is whether the act or practice is likely to affect the consumer's conduct or decision with regard to a product or service. If so, the practice is material, and consumer injury is likely, because consumers are likely to have chosen differently but for the deception."

Just to clarify, they don't mean physical injury.

The United States Airforce bought PS3's solely for the linux capability for use as server clusters, so that covers #3, I cannot speak for each individual consumer, but I assume at least some of them would have acted differently if the PS3 never had Linux support in the first place (IE, Not bought it)

EDIT5:

[HEADING=3] Penalties for not allowing Sony to remove your Linux Feature:[/HEADING]
They aren't just not allowing you online

Some people are saying "Well, it's their online service, they can choose whether to let you use it" that's not the case, but for a moment let's say I agree.

But that's not all they are doing, they aren't just making you choose between an advertised Console feature and an advertised Online feature, they are making you choose between two advertised CONSOLE features. Check out this link:

http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/03/sony-steals-feature-from-your-playstation-3

That's right, if you don't allow them to get rid of Linux [HEADING=3]YOU CANNOT PLAY ANY PS3 GAMES RELEASED FROM THIS POINT ON![/HEADING]

There goes that argument!

EDIT 6:

[HEADING=2]Broken Promises[/HEADING]

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/goodbye-linux-on-the-ps3-sony-backpedals-on-install-other-os-support/7832:

This news comes a little more a month after Sony management confirmed to the PS3-Linux community that the company was committed to keeping this feature on systems sold with this feature:

>> The feature of "Install Other OS" was removed from the new
>> "Slim" PS3 model to focus on delivering games and other
>> entertainment content.
>>
>> Please be assured that SCE is committed to continue
>> the support for previously sold models that have the
>> "Install Other OS" feature and that this feature will
>> not be disabled in future firmware releases.
Whether or not I agree with you, that was quite informative, thought propaganda at times, and quite hilarious as you are clearly very into this whole debate.
Thanks for the great read, and the information! I don't have a PS3 anyway, so whatever. PS2 for life >_>
Actually I just don't see the point in buying something that isn't backwards compatible. Also I don't want to spend $700 on one that is.

I would support this whole thing on principle, but the world has destroyed my will and faith in the legal system so I'm just going to curl up in the fetal position in the shower with my clothes on instead.
 

Flying Dagger

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danpascooch said:
You know, can we time out for a second, so I can tell you something.

I disagree with pretty much all of what you're saying, but you are one of the most mature posters that is against my argument I've seen here, if you still have things to say, I hope you stick around to say them, it's been a good debate.

Ok, back to the dogfight.
As a politician who used to be a paralegal, I can pretty much inform you that I'm the least mature person here.

I'm arguing on a subject I know next to nothing about, for a faceless corporation I haven't supported since I stopped using my PS2, on a legal system that I don't even understand, in a country I've never visited.
Purely to get a kick out of debate practice.

Haven't had an argument this good since my old haunt of the MSN UK Politics boards were invaded by a horde of idiots.

And the ever-present opportunity to prove myself right is always a plus.

That said, for reasons I've stated, I do not believe the law suit will succeed, but as a politician, I'm used to people disagreeing with me.
:)
 

omega 616

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May 1, 2009
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LordZ said:
omega 616 said:
It's picking your battles, getting amped up over something as worthless as this is a waste of effort. Get angry over something that matters. If you have a list of problems you start with the biggest not mess around with the little ones.
You may be fine with ignoring something that's wrong just because it's not "bad enough" to bother you but I refuse to look the other way. Just because you have low standards doesn't mean I have to lower mine.
LordZ said:
omega 616 said:
So you game on PC, bought a PS3 for Linux (maybe a tiny big of gaming) and are now waiting for firmware to get Linux back, if that doesn't happen your going to sell it on ebay for full price? I apologize in advance but I am simply returning the favor, that plan fails.

Unless the PS3 is still boxed nobody will buy it full price, even thats unlikely. If your mainly a PC gamer, why would you need a part time PC? It doesn't make sense.

This thread has been a source of some good laughs, not at the people who have quoted me though.
I have a good reputation on eBay and that can be worth more than a box. Though, you're right, it's not guaranteed. I never said it was a perfect plan but I work with what I have.
If you want to get worked up over a feature mainly used by a small number of companies and the US airforce go right ahead, just don't make out your better than me for doing so.

You will get most of your money back on the PS3, seems like a poor decision to get it in the first place though.
 

Danpascooch

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Apr 16, 2009
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jasoncyrus said:
danpascooch said:
Hate to burst your legal bubble but if you are going to try justifying sueing sony because they took out a feature. You'll have to ***** out apple aswell. They've done pretty much almost exactly the same thing with their new restrictions on apps using only approved coding.

Also its a game console, not a car or anything important. Sueing over not being able to use another OS on it is stupid and proves you're just a money grubbing douchebag. If you want to use linux, buy a pc and put linux on it. Thats what linux was originally designed for. Plus, the airforce using the hardware for the clusters. I somewhat doubt they will be bothered much about giving a backhand to sony for clean PS3s.

Get over it, oh and grow up =)

EDIT: On a side note, it's pretty obvious anyone sueing sony is going to get banned from PSN, especially since they can ban you for whatever reason they like.
Sure they can ban from PSN, but it's false advertising to not allow them to use games released from now on.

And believe me, I don't need to do any "growing up" I'm concerned with the legal ramifications of the act, I don't even USE PS3's, and believe me, I'm NO fan of Apple, but what they are doing is not false advertising, simply because they aren't taking away a feature they previously advertised that requires no upkeep from them.
 

Danpascooch

Zombie Specialist
Apr 16, 2009
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Flying Dagger said:
danpascooch said:
You know, can we time out for a second, so I can tell you something.

I disagree with pretty much all of what you're saying, but you are one of the most mature posters that is against my argument I've seen here, if you still have things to say, I hope you stick around to say them, it's been a good debate.

Ok, back to the dogfight.
As a politician who used to be a paralegal, I can pretty much inform you that I'm the least mature person here.

I'm arguing on a subject I know next to nothing about, for a faceless corporation I haven't supported since I stopped using my PS2, on a legal system that I don't even understand, in a country I've never visited.
Purely to get a kick out of debate practice.

Haven't had an argument this good since my old haunt of the MSN UK Politics boards were invaded by a horde of idiots.

And the ever-present opportunity to prove myself right is always a plus.

That said, for reasons I've stated, I do not believe the law suit will succeed, but as a politician, I'm used to people disagreeing with me.
:)
A politician/paralegal, wouldn't that make you just about the BEST informed person here?