Wii U to be quickly outdated?

[him over there]

Waggling started out as a fad, and now most people see it as the gimmick it is.

That's why microsoft and sony are both pushing their motion control systems so much, because everyone knows it's a fad after the Wii showed them, right?

Fad? no. Crap? probably. It brings this comic to mind:

Spoiler

It would actually be pretty impressive if that was their evil scheme the entire time.

 

[Treblaine]

-snip-

Oh, you replied? I thought my last post made it clear that I was no longer interested in humoring you.

See, I actually have other things that demand my attention on occasion and I can't spend all of my time talking to someone who refuses to acknowledge that he's wrong about virtually every single thing he's said.

But you wasted all that time typing up a nice big long post that I didn't bother reading. I admit it. I didn't read it because I don't really care anymore. An argument is only fun if both sides have some degree of correctness to their side of the debate.

But let's review your case:
1) You commented that the Wii has the exact same hardware as the Gamecube. (FALSE)
2) You also comment that the Wii U will be similarly "exactly the same" as the Gamecube. (UTTERLY FALSE)
3) You stated that the Wii "can't compete" with titles like Dance Central on Kinect. (FALSE)
4) You said that the Wii U supports four tablet controllers. (EPICALLY FALSE)
5) You assert that the XBox 360 was not sold at a loss in its first few years of existence. (FALSE)
6) You say that AAA games on the PC do not sell for $60. (FALSE)
7) You state that the Wii was introduced by Nintendo specifically to compete against the PS2 (FALSE) and then assert that it was outsold in that same period by the PS2. (FALSE) Then when proven wrong about this, you go back to pointing out that the 360 has outsold the Wii recently, thus showing that even you have given up on this point.
8) You point out that the Wii U's new controller scheme is obviously stolen from the 360 because it utilizes dual analog sticks, a scheme that they obviously only could have gotten from the 360, right? (EXCEPT FALSE)
9) You say that the Wii isn't a seventh generation console, despite it being considered seventh generation by every major publisher and news source. (FALSE)

It's safe to say there's no point in continuing. You've been proven wrong on so many points that there's nothing left of your argument. It's in shambles. And every time I point out another erroneous statement from you, you flail and whine and complain that I don't know what I'm talking about. You're not even fun any more. You've only made one overall statement I agree with: that if the Wii U sells for more than $300, it's going to struggle for a while, because that's a much tougher price point to push nowadays.

That said, I'm not going to bother with you. I've obliterated every point you've made (and in some cases you obliterated your OWN points), and you keep stubbornly repeating them in the hopes that perhaps I'll forget that I've already proven you wrong on this subject and will be willing to humor you and repeat myself several times. Well sorry to disappoint but no, I have better things to do.

I'll repeat what I said last time: At the three year mark for the Wii U's release, after it has outsold your expectations, I'll post a new thread and you can apologize for how wrong you were.

I will say one thing about your large, excessively incorrect post, though....I love how 10-20 million units is "not that many". lol. Spoken like someone who will never own a business in his life. Have a fantastic three years, my friend, I look forward to your apology.

(1)
What I actually said:
"near idenical in power to a gamecube or Original Xbox."
"wii was a gamecube relaunch. The internals are so similar that gamecube emulators can emulate wii games."
"Wii has gamecube internals."
"Wii is still THE SAME GameCube hardware slightly over-clocked."
"I never said Wii and gamecube were EXACTLY the same."

None of which mean "Wii has the exact same hardware as the Gamecube" that you allege against me. You can only get me on semantics of using the term "exact" which I never did. As the Wii does have slightly tweaked hardware from Gamecube and other irrelevant crap like ethernet and SD card reader, and of course wii-mote.

(2) Utterly false claim about ME. I actually put the phrase "exactly the same" into Ctrl+F phrase search and I never said that. I searched for every use of the word "exact" and again I can't find a single place where I used that with the WiiU


(3) well that's my opinion, how can I have a false opinion. I never said it was a fact.

(4)I never said the WiiU definitely supported 4 tablet controllers, I discussed the possibility with someone else that it might

(5) I made very clear from a source I provided that by 2006 (only a year after launch) it was selling at a small profit.

(6) I made clear that most games don't sell for $60 on PC. I never said it was an absolute rule with no exceptions.

(7) I did not say Nintendo "specifically" was competing with PS2, I'm saying it SHOULD HAVE been competing with PS2 to spite Nintendo's wishes. I said overall the PS2 has sold more than Wii, I never said PS2 outsold the Wii in that period. I said there was a time when the PS2 outsold the PS3, not in recent years though.

(8) My pointing out similarity to Xbox 360 in terms of thumbstick was not to allege plagiarism or "stealing" but to indicate how Nintendo is targeting the same audience as Xbox 360 by having the same controls as them

(9) I said Wii shouldn't be considered a 7th gen console for it's hardware. Saying "everyone else does it" without an explanation is a fallacy of Argument From Authority. They are wrong to call it a 7th gen console.

"It's safe to say there's no point in continuing."

Damn right. Every single thin you have alleged about me is wrong. And you could easily tell they were wrong if you just read my whole post to you or did the simplest cursory look at my posts.

"I've obliterated every point you've made "

You've made blatant straw-man arguments by blatantly arguing what I did never claim.

"I love how 10-20 million units is "not that many". lol. Spoken like someone who will never own a business in his life."

You didn't even read WHY I consider that insignificant, as I am NOT looking at this from the perspective of Nintendo making money. I am looking at this from the perspective of the gamer and what 10-20 million market share being so insignificant that it will be neglected by developers.

Why should I apologise for making an opposing argument using facts and my assessments even if I am wrong? I'm not to proud to admit I am wrong but what is there to apologise for? Apologies are for personal infractions, what personal infraction is there in discussing an outcome of something you don't have any personal connection to?

 

[Atmos Duality]

Waggling started out as a fad, and now most people see it as the gimmick it is.

That's why microsoft and sony are both pushing their motion control systems so much, because everyone knows it's a fad after the Wii showed them, right?

1) Most =/= Everyone. I knew about those exceptions in advance.
So please don't try to put words into my mouth.

2) The Move and Kinect have failed to do much for their respective systems except demonstrate how late they were to the motion-control party. Wii sales were already starting to shrivel up when Christmas 2010 rolled around. So yeah, they were late to the party. Fad was already over.

Ever heard of the Snuggie?

Blanket with sleeves, incredibly stupid looking thing? Has sold over 20 million units and made its creators nine digit figures in cash?

Let me get you a tissue, since you have likely realized where I'm going with this, and now wish to weep for the future of humanity. No, I won't need one, I finished my weeping for humanity long ago. Now I just go along for the ride.

"I have no more tears for fools."
Make room, I'm on the same ride.

 

[him over there]

It would actually be pretty impressive if that was their evil scheme the entire time.

Oh miyamoto, you so crazy

I am interested to see how the Wiimote and classic controller II will be used in games. I hope they don't dump them completely.

From the pikmin 3 trailer it looks like either the tablet controller will be optional or some games will allow for support of the classic controller or wii remote. The wiimote looks to be mainly for backwards compatibility. I think few games will probably use the wiimote, which is a shame because I think that the pointing function was great, the onlt thing it did right even.

 

[OrokuSaki]

My opinion:

It will probably end up doing exactly what the Wii did. Sell out big on opening day but then be turned in when a new console comes out, or people get sick of Nintendo's latest obnoxious gimmick, in this case the tablet. I just don't see the tablet as a viable controller, I think after maybe 20 minutes of gameplay I'll find myself reaching for the GameCube controller, and the GameCube, which surprisingly had more lasting appeal than the Wii.

 

[Mr.Mattress]

It would actually be pretty impressive if that was their evil scheme the entire time.

Oh miyamoto, you so crazy

I am interested to see how the Wiimote and classic controller II will be used in games. I hope they don't dump them completely.

From the pikmin 3 trailer it looks like either the tablet controller will be optional or some games will allow for support of the classic controller or wii remote. The wiimote looks to be mainly for backwards compatibility. I think few games will probably use the wiimote, which is a shame because I think that the pointing function was great, the onlt thing it did right even.

Pbbt, why would you guys wanna play with this,

Spoiler: Wii Classic Controller

When you can play with this?

Spoiler: WiiU PRO Controller

Gentlemen, I present the Controller for pros!

 

[him over there]

It would actually be pretty impressive if that was their evil scheme the entire time.

Oh miyamoto, you so crazy

I am interested to see how the Wiimote and classic controller II will be used in games. I hope they don't dump them completely.

From the pikmin 3 trailer it looks like either the tablet controller will be optional or some games will allow for support of the classic controller or wii remote. The wiimote looks to be mainly for backwards compatibility. I think few games will probably use the wiimote, which is a shame because I think that the pointing function was great, the onlt thing it did right even.

Pbbt, why would you guys wanna play with this,

Spoiler: Wii Classic Controller

When you can play with this?

Spoiler: WiiU [b

PRO [/b] Controller]

Gentlemen, I present the Controller for pros!

We thought it was sort of implied that was the one we were talking about because it's the one for wii U.

 

[Mr.Mattress]

It would actually be pretty impressive if that was their evil scheme the entire time.

Oh miyamoto, you so crazy

I am interested to see how the Wiimote and classic controller II will be used in games. I hope they don't dump them completely.

From the pikmin 3 trailer it looks like either the tablet controller will be optional or some games will allow for support of the classic controller or wii remote. The wiimote looks to be mainly for backwards compatibility. I think few games will probably use the wiimote, which is a shame because I think that the pointing function was great, the onlt thing it did right even.

Pbbt, why would you guys wanna play with this,

Spoiler: Wii Classic Controller

When you can play with this?

Spoiler: WiiU [b

PRO [/b] Controller]

Gentlemen, I present the Controller for pros!

We thought it was sort of implied that was the one we were talking about because it's the one for wii U.

Oh, from the sound of it, you were talking about the Wii Classic Controller... My mistake!

 

[Treblaine]

Soooo... Gearbox getting paid to paint Nintendo in an unrealistically positive light (from your persepective), that's no conspiracy theory. Obviously.

They can't be biased because they make games for them? Are you serious? You can't hate your boss? You are right, that's unheard of.

And the Wii U version isn't the lead platform version. Development started before the Wii U was even on the horizon, not to mention that the Xbox360 and PS3 versions apparently will ship before the Wii U version. So much for that theory.

It does not make sense from a business standpoint. Nintendo officials like Reggie Fils-Amie have stated again and again that their aim is to offer a platform where all the great third party content can come to without bastardizing it like with ports to the Wii. Are you telling me they are that short sighted that they don't see that once a new console generation rolls around one year later they are back were they started?

See, what you are saying, and that article, is that Nintendo is stupid, and that they make stupid decisions that defy logic and good business sense. They took a bold risk with the Wii, and and worked out for them, but it was a huge slap in the face for third party developer, no matter how you turn it. But it was what they thought was their best option at the time. Developers shit all over the Wii in the last few years, most of them not even trying to make good games for the system, even though first party developers showed that there were lots of possibilities to make great games in those limitations. I don't expect more then a token effort from them right away, much less any positivity about the Wii U.

Can you explain me why Epic, who is about as hardcore as they get, praises the Wii U, and denies claims that Unreal Engine 4 wont be coming to the Wii U? See, there is one really easy reason why they haven't given us the numbers yet. They might still be subject to change. It's Nintendo's expressed target not to be left in the dust. Launching a Xbox light with a free iPad makes no sense in that regard.

But really, I can say all I want, that article is gospel to you, so obviously everything I can bring to you can only be shallow lies. Now that I know, I'll just stop. We will see who's in denial soon enough.

It's not conspiracy it's convenience. You think it's a conspiracy or convenience that guests on talk shows always manage to name drop their new book or their new album?

Why would they hate their boss? Nintendo giving them work, if they have wronged them then you blab about how they wronged you, you tell reporters "ooh Nintendo make us work terrible hours and don't pay us overtime". Not make shit up that will come back to bite them in the ass.

I merely suggested it might be lead platform... but if they are going to take several months longer developing the WiiU version, that might contribute greatly to it being the best console version.

I think Nintendo are that short sighted. They were with the Wii. I think they are totally banking on a load of people swallowing hook line and sinker that this is "next gen hardware" when it isn't. That and hope the Next-Playstation and Next-Xbox are many years away. I think Nintendo is depending on everyone else being stupid.

I don't hold Epic with a lot of credibility. They took a great studio like People Can Fly who made Painkiller and dumbed them down to making crap like Bulletstorm. Of course Unreal Engine 4 will be for WiiU. And Windows PC, and for MacOS possibly, any system that could take it, engines aren't THAT specific, one you are juggling three different operating systems, a 4th or 5th is easy as to make it work 3 ways you have to make it work every way.

"that article is gospel to you"

Petty comments like this that sindely imply blind and dogmatic faith don't endear yourself.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Microsoft has sold 18,000,000 kinects. At the RRP of $149.99 that's only about...

$2699820000

Also known as over 2 and a half billion dollars...

In 2010 they sold about 15 million Wiis or so, with around 10,000,000 sold in 2011. Yes, a decline but 10,000,000 is still healthy. It's just a decline from "it prints money" levels.

1)...So you're assuming that Microsoft gets 100% of the money from retail sales. All $150.
And this somehow results in 2.5 billion in revenue for them...

NO. IT DOES NOT.

2)Many Kinects are being sold as package/bundle deals regardless of whether they are being used or not. Actual usage numbers are impossible to ascertain, but I will say that I'm not buying for a minute that even half of them are being used right now. I'd be putting 20% at "very generously optimistic".

Nobody I know who even owns a Kinect uses it anymore. Apart from Dancing games, there aren't many acclaimed (or even good) games for it.

3) 2010 was the end of the healthy years for Wii sales (of ANYTHING, including units and games).
The Wii sales started spiraling downward right around Christmas 2010, and they never recovered. Nintendo posted LOSSES for most of 2011, and seeing how they are nothing BUT gaming company (unlike Sony, whose losses came from poor electronics sales) I can assume that meant the Wii fell out very very BADLY.

Which is exactly my point. Once the party was over, there was nothing left but a hangover.
Sony and Microsoft's markets continued to do much well in comparison, but it certainly wasn't because of the Move or Kinect.

 

[CorruptCor3]

Wii U is a dumb idea and it will be overtaken by the old Wii within a year.

 

[him over there]

1)...So you're assuming that Microsoft gets 100% of the money from retail sales. All $150.
And this somehow results in 2.5 billion in revenue for them...

NO.

2)Many Kinects are being sold as package/bundle deals regardless of whether they are being used or not. Actual usage numbers are impossible to ascertain, but I will say that I'm not buying for a minute that even half of them are being used right now. I'd be putting 20% at "very generously optimistic".

Nobody I know who even owns a Kinect uses it anymore. Apart from Dancing games, there aren't many acclaimed (or even good) games for it.

3) 2010 was the end of the healthy years for Wii sales (of ANYTHING, including units and games).
The Wii sales started spiraling downward right around Christmas 2010, and they never recovered. Nintendo posted LOSSES for most of 2011, and seeing how they are nothing BUT gaming company (unlike Sony, whose losses came from poor electronics sales) I can assume that meant the Wii fell out very very BADLY.

Which is exactly my point. Once the party was over, there was nothing left but a hangover.
Sony and Microsoft's markets continued to do much well in comparison, but it certainly wasn't because of the Move or Kinect.

Do you not remember a few other factors of 2011?

I'll point them out for you

#1 A strong yen which lost them a shit-ton of cash
#2 The 3DS price cut that made them sell at a loss

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16737858

Isn't part of the reason the wii began to fall out the fact that essentially everybody had one? eventually you get to a point where you can't sell a product simply because of saturation.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Do you not remember a few other factors of 2011?

I'll point them out for you

#1 A strong yen which lost them a shit-ton of cash
#2 The 3DS price cut that made them sell at a loss

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16737858

And this has WHAT to do with your original refutation? In regards to your original response, all I see is a pair of Strawmen.

What you're showing me here proves that Nintendo's domestic sales tanked as badly as we've come to expect. (Japan is a major market for Nintendo; they lead Sony for a while. Sales made there are immune to currency-exchange).

So unless you're just here to swap trade-trivia with me, get to point, please.