Wii U to be quickly outdated?

[TheDrunkNinja]

I'm actually surprised there are people here still denying the utter success of the Wii.

Hell, the presentations of the Wii U's capability as a gaming console were underwhelming to me as well, but the same can be said for the Wii before it was launched.

I think things are a little premature to be calling fail or success right now.

 

[Treblaine]

Okay, so now you are claiming that Gearbox gives Nintendo some kind of special treatment, for a game that is a cross platform release over 3 consoles and PC. They must pay handsomely with that money that they don't have to make a proper next gen console, according to you.

And several developers have come forward and said that working on the Wii U dev kit is very comfortable and allows for seamless ports. It makes no sense for them to be lying either.

What does that have to do with a short memory? They launched two ridiculously successful systems since then. Looks like whatever they changed worked, because they did pretty well.

And now you are harping on that they "deceive" consumers. They don't. We will know exactly what's in the console before it launches, and if they are really insane, and do what you suggest they will, then the launch will tank. Rightfully so.

And if they want to sell this thing as a true next gen console, they will have the data to do back that. They aim at hardcore gamers, that's what they said over and over again. And hardcore gamers check stuff like that before they buy a product.

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2012/02/unreals-next-engine-will-need-a-console-at-least-10x-more-powerful-than-xbox-360/

There. They said the next generation of consoles needs to be 10x more powerful than the Xbox 360 to be able to run the engine. Though that's mostly based on the number of FLOPS the Xbox 360 can handle.


So yeah, they didn't scam anyone with the Wii, they wont scam anyone with the Wii U. Everyone knew what they were getting with the Wii, and everyone will know what they get with the Wii U.

Yes, special treatment but not to Nitnendo but the WiiU, Randy is the big boss of the company he has his eye more on the bottom line that a single developer on the front line. He'll sell more copies and make more money if the WiiU version is bigged up as it would be a struggling new platform.

"And several developers have come forward and said that working on the Wii U dev kit is very comfortable and allows for seamless ports. It makes no sense for them to be lying either."

No source provided.

And "comfortable" is not in contradiction with the actual allegations made that it is underpowered. They aren't lying they are just not telling the whole truth.

I don't get how you can say Nintendo is infallible, that their judgement cannot be questioned. That is the Fallacy of Argument from Authority.

I only know because I did a lot of research. But you can find people on this very forum who are absolutely convinced that the Wii has hardware rendering and processing a whole generation ahead of the gamecube and truly on peer with the 360 and PS3. I DID add the qualifier that WiiU might sell by tricking everyone to ACTUALLY believe this is a whole generation ahead in hardware processing/rendering capability when it most likely is not.

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2012/02/unreals-next-engine-will-need-a-console-at-least-10x-more-powerful-than-xbox-360/

You are misrepresenting the source, you seem to have just read the title and not the actual content. The ENGINE doesn't need a whole order of magnitude more powerful hardware, a particular use of the engine with the ?Samaritan? tech demo needs 10x more processing/rendering power. Which is not Unreal Engine 4, but Unreal Engine 3 running at peak capability!!! Unreal 3 engine DEFINITELY works on Xbox 360.

Hardly anything has been revealed about Unreal Engine 4 except it won't be ready for another 2 years and I can't find anywhere that it could not run on Xbox 360.

 

[Arina Love]

The way i see it Wii U is this gen console with controller gimmick. It will play this gen tittles and Nintendo ones. Just like with Wii after new gen will come all big boys will be developing on new xbox and PS. Wii U will have same fate as Wii.

 

[Treblaine]

Of course not because THAT IS NOT MY ARGUMENT! My argument is the price for performance for Wii is atrocious in comparison to the competition and Nintendo only gets away with it by masquerading as being peer with PS3/360 rather than truly being closer to the Playstation 2.

And yet you are fine with the other consoles that are masquerading as being powerful. Same issue, you only choose to complain at Nintendo.

No.

360 is genuinely capable in rendering and processing proportional to price.
PS3 is genuinely capable in rendering and processing proportional to price (with price cuts since 2008).

Wii is NOT genuinely capable in rendering and processing proportional to price.


360 may be less powerful than a typical PC, but it's only $199 so proportionally priced. Wii is currently selling for only a little less at $160 and is more than a whole order of magnitude less capable.

Gamecube sold for $99 back in 2003, that was a fair price. Yet practically the same tech over-clocked sold for $250 in 2006.

 

[Treblaine]

Its not about bad graphics, i hate graphics whores

I don't see good graphics as a prerequisite to being GOOD, but it is a prerequisite to being EXPENSIVE!

I'll gladly play and enjoy games with low graphics and processor complexity like VVVVVV or Terraria, but I won't pay big bucks for them. You can't put an indefinitely large price on infinitely replicable art, but you can put a price on raw graphical power.

Wii, as cheap as it was, was still too expensive. The Gamecube was priced right at $99, then Wii doubled that price for the same stuff overlocked so it was only $50 less than an Xbox 360.

I'll only consider the WiiU if it is no more than $200 - price parity with Xbox 360 - or is inexplicably much much more powerful than all that has been demonstrated so far. As it is, it has demonstrated barley better than Xbox 360 graphics and numerous sources point to a price well over $300, and around $350.

I don't care about Zelda in HD, I'm not paying more for the same.

 

[Davroth]

Okay, so now you are claiming that Gearbox gives Nintendo some kind of special treatment, for a game that is a cross platform release over 3 consoles and PC. They must pay handsomely with that money that they don't have to make a proper next gen console, according to you.

And several developers have come forward and said that working on the Wii U dev kit is very comfortable and allows for seamless ports. It makes no sense for them to be lying either.

What does that have to do with a short memory? They launched two ridiculously successful systems since then. Looks like whatever they changed worked, because they did pretty well.

And now you are harping on that they "deceive" consumers. They don't. We will know exactly what's in the console before it launches, and if they are really insane, and do what you suggest they will, then the launch will tank. Rightfully so.

And if they want to sell this thing as a true next gen console, they will have the data to do back that. They aim at hardcore gamers, that's what they said over and over again. And hardcore gamers check stuff like that before they buy a product.

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2012/02/unreals-next-engine-will-need-a-console-at-least-10x-more-powerful-than-xbox-360/

There. They said the next generation of consoles needs to be 10x more powerful than the Xbox 360 to be able to run the engine. Though that's mostly based on the number of FLOPS the Xbox 360 can handle.


So yeah, they didn't scam anyone with the Wii, they wont scam anyone with the Wii U. Everyone knew what they were getting with the Wii, and everyone will know what they get with the Wii U.

Yes, special treatment but not to Nitnendo but the WiiU, Randy is the big boss of the company he has his eye more on the bottom line that a single developer on the front line. He'll sell more copies and make more money if the WiiU version is bigged up as it would be a struggling new platform.

"And several developers have come forward and said that working on the Wii U dev kit is very comfortable and allows for seamless ports. It makes no sense for them to be lying either."

No source provided.

And "comfortable" is not in contradiction with the actual allegations made that it is underpowered. They aren't lying they are just not telling the whole truth.

I don't get how you can say Nintendo is infallible, that their judgement cannot be questioned. That is the Fallacy of Argument from Authority.

I only know because I did a lot of research. But you can find people on this very forum who are absolutely convinced that the Wii has hardware rendering and processing a whole generation ahead of the gamecube and truly on peer with the 360 and PS3. I DID add the qualifier that WiiU might sell by tricking everyone to ACTUALLY believe this is a whole generation ahead in hardware processing/rendering capability when it most likely is not.

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2012/02/unreals-next-engine-will-need-a-console-at-least-10x-more-powerful-than-xbox-360/

You are misrepresenting the source, you seem to have just read the title and not the actual content. The ENGINE doesn't need a whole order of magnitude more powerful hardware, a particular use of the engine with the ?Samaritan? tech demo needs 10x more processing/rendering power. Which is not Unreal Engine 4, but Unreal Engine 3 running at peak capability!!! Unreal 3 engine DEFINITELY works on Xbox 360.

Hardly anything has been revealed about Unreal Engine 4 except it won't be ready for another 2 years and I can't find anywhere that it could not run on Xbox 360.

Okay, if you so out of the loop that you need links for everything, I don't see why I should continue discussing this with you.

And now you are harping on that they "deceive" consumers. They don't. We will know exactly what's in the console before it launches, and if they are really insane, and do what you suggest they will, then the launch will tank. Rightfully so.

And if they want to sell this thing as a true next gen console, they will have the data to do back that. They aim at hardcore gamers, that's what they said over and over again. And hardcore gamers check stuff like that before they buy a product.

Yeah, I totally said they are infallible. Consider that above my final statement in the matter.

 

[Jumpingbean3]

There's always a chance it will do well but in order to do so it will have to catch up with modern releases pretty damn fast. That said if it does flop it should hopefully convince Nintendo to create a console that can hold up against the PS5 and Xbox 1440.

 

[Treblaine]

No.

360 is genuinely capable in rendering and processing proportional to price.
PS3 is genuinely capable in rendering and processing proportional to price (with price cuts since 2008).

Wii is NOT genuinely capable in rendering and processing proportional to price.


360 may be less powerful than a typical PC, but it's only $199 so proportionally priced. Wii is currently selling for only a little less at $160 and is more than a whole order of magnitude less capable.

Gamecube sold for $99 back in 2003, that was a fair price. Yet practically the same tech over-clocked sold for $250 in 2006.

Right, and they learned a good lesson from the Gamecube. Powerful hardware doesn't sell as well as cheap hardware does, the PS2 showed that. I think they made a sensible decision.

I mean they sold the Wii cheaply and at a profit and they made megabucks, props to the big N for jumping on a winning formula.

What is it with your over-simplifications of EVERYTHING. The lesson was not:

"Powerful hardware doesn't sell as well as cheap hardware does, the PS2 showed that."

Gamecube was cheap at $99 since 2003. PS2 was expensive. It didn't go down to even $150 till 2005.

The trick with Wii was Re-launching their failed console (with trivial upgrades and peripherals) masquerading as a next generation system to leach off the reputation of Xbox 360 and PS3 by claiming to be 7th gen purely by the timing of release. It cast itself as "ooh, slightly less powerful than overpowered PS3/360" when really it was miles behind, like a VW beetle dressed up in Ferrari bodywork, casting itself as the "slightly more economical Ferrari".

It's a rip off. That is the lesson.

I will add that there is a problem trying to sell a console as the profit making element. A console by itself is worthless. A wii without games is a hunk of plastic. With nintendo making profit on consoles they were under great incentive to sell as many consoles to as many different people as possible at the cost of making a good market for games. Again, Escapist is a consumer website, not a stock-holder website. There is nothing good to congratulate Nintendo about making a lot of money while their consumers get screwed buying Wiis that develops spurn for being so incapable and left with a console without games.

That "nintendo wii prints money gif" you are gloating about being a corporate stooge. They get rich while they sell you overpriced obsolete tech. It's not to your benefit that they get hugely rich. This isn't capitalism, this isn't consumerism, it's corporate worship.

 

[Treblaine]

Okay, so now you are claiming that Gearbox gives Nintendo some kind of special treatment, for a game that is a cross platform release over 3 consoles and PC. They must pay handsomely with that money that they don't have to make a proper next gen console, according to you.

And several developers have come forward and said that working on the Wii U dev kit is very comfortable and allows for seamless ports. It makes no sense for them to be lying either.

What does that have to do with a short memory? They launched two ridiculously successful systems since then. Looks like whatever they changed worked, because they did pretty well.

And now you are harping on that they "deceive" consumers. They don't. We will know exactly what's in the console before it launches, and if they are really insane, and do what you suggest they will, then the launch will tank. Rightfully so.

And if they want to sell this thing as a true next gen console, they will have the data to do back that. They aim at hardcore gamers, that's what they said over and over again. And hardcore gamers check stuff like that before they buy a product.

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2012/02/unreals-next-engine-will-need-a-console-at-least-10x-more-powerful-than-xbox-360/

There. They said the next generation of consoles needs to be 10x more powerful than the Xbox 360 to be able to run the engine. Though that's mostly based on the number of FLOPS the Xbox 360 can handle.


So yeah, they didn't scam anyone with the Wii, they wont scam anyone with the Wii U. Everyone knew what they were getting with the Wii, and everyone will know what they get with the Wii U.

Yes, special treatment but not to Nitnendo but the WiiU, Randy is the big boss of the company he has his eye more on the bottom line that a single developer on the front line. He'll sell more copies and make more money if the WiiU version is bigged up as it would be a struggling new platform.

"And several developers have come forward and said that working on the Wii U dev kit is very comfortable and allows for seamless ports. It makes no sense for them to be lying either."

No source provided.

And "comfortable" is not in contradiction with the actual allegations made that it is underpowered. They aren't lying they are just not telling the whole truth.

I don't get how you can say Nintendo is infallible, that their judgement cannot be questioned. That is the Fallacy of Argument from Authority.

I only know because I did a lot of research. But you can find people on this very forum who are absolutely convinced that the Wii has hardware rendering and processing a whole generation ahead of the gamecube and truly on peer with the 360 and PS3. I DID add the qualifier that WiiU might sell by tricking everyone to ACTUALLY believe this is a whole generation ahead in hardware processing/rendering capability when it most likely is not.

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2012/02/unreals-next-engine-will-need-a-console-at-least-10x-more-powerful-than-xbox-360/

You are misrepresenting the source, you seem to have just read the title and not the actual content. The ENGINE doesn't need a whole order of magnitude more powerful hardware, a particular use of the engine with the ?Samaritan? tech demo needs 10x more processing/rendering power. Which is not Unreal Engine 4, but Unreal Engine 3 running at peak capability!!! Unreal 3 engine DEFINITELY works on Xbox 360.

Hardly anything has been revealed about Unreal Engine 4 except it won't be ready for another 2 years and I can't find anywhere that it could not run on Xbox 360.

Okay, if you so out of the loop that you need links for everything, I don't see why I should continue discussing this with you.

And now you are harping on that they "deceive" consumers. They don't. We will know exactly what's in the console before it launches, and if they are really insane, and do what you suggest they will, then the launch will tank. Rightfully so.

And if they want to sell this thing as a true next gen console, they will have the data to do back that. They aim at hardcore gamers, that's what they said over and over again. And hardcore gamers check stuff like that before they buy a product.

Yeah, I totally said they are infallible. Consider that above my final statement in the matter.

I'm "out of the loop" for USING SOURCES!?!? What is is with your double-talk.

It's a blatant straw man to say that was the part of Infallibility. You were the one saying it is inconceivable for Nintendo so make a mistake or be stupid. That is saying they are infallible. Not the part where you talked about ability to deceive their customers.

 

[Davroth]

Okay, so now you are claiming that Gearbox gives Nintendo some kind of special treatment, for a game that is a cross platform release over 3 consoles and PC. They must pay handsomely with that money that they don't have to make a proper next gen console, according to you.

And several developers have come forward and said that working on the Wii U dev kit is very comfortable and allows for seamless ports. It makes no sense for them to be lying either.

What does that have to do with a short memory? They launched two ridiculously successful systems since then. Looks like whatever they changed worked, because they did pretty well.

And now you are harping on that they "deceive" consumers. They don't. We will know exactly what's in the console before it launches, and if they are really insane, and do what you suggest they will, then the launch will tank. Rightfully so.

And if they want to sell this thing as a true next gen console, they will have the data to do back that. They aim at hardcore gamers, that's what they said over and over again. And hardcore gamers check stuff like that before they buy a product.

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2012/02/unreals-next-engine-will-need-a-console-at-least-10x-more-powerful-than-xbox-360/

There. They said the next generation of consoles needs to be 10x more powerful than the Xbox 360 to be able to run the engine. Though that's mostly based on the number of FLOPS the Xbox 360 can handle.


So yeah, they didn't scam anyone with the Wii, they wont scam anyone with the Wii U. Everyone knew what they were getting with the Wii, and everyone will know what they get with the Wii U.

Yes, special treatment but not to Nitnendo but the WiiU, Randy is the big boss of the company he has his eye more on the bottom line that a single developer on the front line. He'll sell more copies and make more money if the WiiU version is bigged up as it would be a struggling new platform.

"And several developers have come forward and said that working on the Wii U dev kit is very comfortable and allows for seamless ports. It makes no sense for them to be lying either."

No source provided.

And "comfortable" is not in contradiction with the actual allegations made that it is underpowered. They aren't lying they are just not telling the whole truth.

I don't get how you can say Nintendo is infallible, that their judgement cannot be questioned. That is the Fallacy of Argument from Authority.

I only know because I did a lot of research. But you can find people on this very forum who are absolutely convinced that the Wii has hardware rendering and processing a whole generation ahead of the gamecube and truly on peer with the 360 and PS3. I DID add the qualifier that WiiU might sell by tricking everyone to ACTUALLY believe this is a whole generation ahead in hardware processing/rendering capability when it most likely is not.

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2012/02/unreals-next-engine-will-need-a-console-at-least-10x-more-powerful-than-xbox-360/

You are misrepresenting the source, you seem to have just read the title and not the actual content. The ENGINE doesn't need a whole order of magnitude more powerful hardware, a particular use of the engine with the ?Samaritan? tech demo needs 10x more processing/rendering power. Which is not Unreal Engine 4, but Unreal Engine 3 running at peak capability!!! Unreal 3 engine DEFINITELY works on Xbox 360.

Hardly anything has been revealed about Unreal Engine 4 except it won't be ready for another 2 years and I can't find anywhere that it could not run on Xbox 360.

Okay, if you so out of the loop that you need links for everything, I don't see why I should continue discussing this with you.

And now you are harping on that they "deceive" consumers. They don't. We will know exactly what's in the console before it launches, and if they are really insane, and do what you suggest they will, then the launch will tank. Rightfully so.

And if they want to sell this thing as a true next gen console, they will have the data to do back that. They aim at hardcore gamers, that's what they said over and over again. And hardcore gamers check stuff like that before they buy a product.

Yeah, I totally said they are infallible. Consider that above my final statement in the matter.

I'm "out of the loop" for USING SOURCES!?!? What is is with your double-talk.

It's a blatant straw man to say that was the part of Infallibility. You were the one saying it is inconceivable for Nintendo so make a mistake or be stupid. That is saying they are infallible. Not the part where you talked about ability to deceive their customers.

You are out of the loop for not keeping up on industry news, and I don't happen to be a newscaster.

I didn't say that was the part about Nintendo being infallible. I said that is my final statement about this matter and it's a neutral one.

You say they sell outdated tech, when what they actually sell the promise of first party support, which they are known for. If you don't care for their first party games, no, you shouldn't buy a Wii. And you shouldn't buy a Wii U if the specs aren't what you want them to be. I know I wont.

 

[Treblaine]

Seems like it is that way to me. After the SNES gen, the weakest console has won every gen.

The PS1
The PS2
The Wii

They all printed money.

But that's an simplified correlation, it's meaningless. How about you actually study WHY each of those consoles did as well as they did (and again, how the hell is Wii a generation ahead of PS2?!?). What this suggests is power is not the only factor.

PS1 had bigger more complex games that could be sold cheaper due to being disc based and was more or less on par with N64 in graphical capability. It was also on the market internationally much longer before and after the N64. Sony also had more money to hire more first part developers and entice third party developers.

PS2 spring boarded from PS1's success as the first backwards compatible console and heavily touted its DVD-movie playback feature, it was the most widely supported by third party with two Metal Gear Solid games, it also had the most flexible controller with two clickable analogue stick and 4 shoulder buttons. Sony was also good at marketing to adolescent market which Nintendo were clueless with a play-centre purple colour and a bobble headed Zelda game that looked more kiddy than the N64 version.

Wii played a big hollow show claiming to be 7th gen when it suited them but 6th gen usually. It got ports of equal quality with PS2, it sold enough to make up for losses of gamecube but has yet to surpass PS2 in total sales and especially in software sales . It didn't compete with PS3 and 360 owners, it had practically none of the multiplatform games nor equivalent exclusives

Xbox 360 had Gears of War
PS3 had Uncharted
Wii has...

Xbox 360 has Halo
PS3 has Killzone
Wii has... Conduit?

 

[ultramarine486]

At yet it still printed money.

I guss those few exclusives it had must have been gold.

Or it could have tapped a thus far untapped market in the casual and family crowd. It was going for a different target audience then the PS3 and Xbox360. Make no mistake they did a damn good job marketing it to those crowds but it's unlikely lightning will strike twice with the WiiU since the aforementioned target audience now has multiple companies vying for their attention. Ipads and Iphones, Sony's Move, Kinect and the App market are all there this time and Nintendo isn't the only seller for casual quick play games.

 

[Treblaine]

At yet it still printed money.

I guss those few exclusives it had must have been gold.

WHAT IS THIS CIRCULAR LOGIC!!! I have explained this to you!

And Nintendo didn't make more money than Sony with PS3 and PS2 combined nor 360 by itself factoring in the revenue from games. Remember Nintendo's wii had smaller attach rate and made less revenue in licencing per game.

Those few exclusives were irrelevant to success which was leeching off 360/PS3's reputation by also claiming to be a 7th gen console yet piling high and selling slightly cheaper to the fickle masses where it didn't focus on game sales, but on a ponzi-like ever expanding investment pool with little actual contribution to those who invested in the console.

 

[Meight08]

Calling it now that it will be a spectacular failure. Why should I pay for a new console that has games on it that i've completed 12 months ago and future releases will be either on the wii or PS3/xbox? Also the pad has a 3-5hr battery for the main pad which is so shit.
It's another gimmick & hopefully it'll cost Nintendo a lot and maybe, just maybe they will stop remaking the same games over and over again.

Remaking?

you obviously know nothing of nintendo games.
Bugger of ya yahtzee fanboi

 

[Treblaine]

You are out of the loop for not keeping up on industry news, and I don't happen to be a newscaster.

I didn't say that was the part about Nintendo being infallible. I said that is my final statement about this matter and it's a neutral one.

You say they sell outdated tech, when what they actually sell the promise of first party support, which they are known for. If you don't care for their first party games, no, you shouldn't buy a Wii. And you shouldn't buy a Wii U if the specs aren't what you want them to be. I know I wont.

You don't get this. By me using a source from the industry news that is me keeping up with the news and demonstrating it to you.

You made a final statement that is somewhat neutral but never rescinded or contradicted your previous statement which was that Nintendo couldn't be stupid nor make a mistake or misjudgement with the WiiU

I have ALREADY explained that you don't have to use the word "infallible" to mean that. Saying they can't do wrong IS saying they are infallible.

"sell the promise of first party support"

Then why has there been such a slow drop-feed of first part games for the Wii? Averaging only one per year and nothing for Wii in 2012? PS3 has had better 1st party support.

The ONLY thing i care for about the wii is the SMALL handful of first part games. And they are very few and far between, Galaxy 2 is redundant to Mario Galaxy 1. Other M is an abomination. There really is nothing to New Super Mario Bros Wii and I don't know anyone in my geographical area to share a screen to play SMB-Brawl. So it's Mario Galaxy, Skyward Sword and possibly Metroid Prime 3. That's it. That's not worth the $160-$170 most stores are selling Wii for.

I will buy a WiiU, if it is priced competitively for it's specifications, and it has any decent unique games for it.