Will multiplayer gaming ever be scary/atmospheric?

[Ryank1908]

I was talking to a friend about the notion of multiplayer survival/horror games, and whether or not they will ever be relevant. We both agree it would be great, but I just don't think it can happen.

I think Yahtzee already raised one of my main points, which was that as soon as multiplayer is added to a game, the atmosphere is lost and it boils down to it's core gameplay mechanics, plus conversation with a friend - which is generally based around cracking jokes, taking the atmosphere away completely. Some examples - Left 4 Dead (which can be tense but more in a 'oh shit we're going to lose' sort of way,) Resident Evil 5, and similar games.
I would love to play a game that has the atmosphere of something like, say, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., with a friend, sharing precious ammo and health items, but I've not played a game that's necessarily even tried it, let alone pulled it off.

For me, it's a matter of immersion, but I realise these things are subjective.

I wanted to hear peoples' opinions on this, and wondered if there were any games that you think manage deep, immersive, co-op atmospheric/scary gameplay?
Because frankly I would love to play one

 

[worldruler8]

I know I might get a bit of flak from this, but one game that has atmosphere in multiplayer is Minecraft. Wait, come back! No really! Hear me out! This is only on certain servers, preferably the anarchy kind (no rules, allowed to kill, destroy, steal, that sort of thing). Other players are suddenly potential threats, you're always on edge, and safety is only an illusion. But yeah, other than that, most multiplayer games don't really have atmosphere...

 

[skywolfblue]

As soon as one person goes "ROLFZ" and proceeds to do something stupid to wreck your game, or camp your corpse, then immersion is blown. Since about 80% of the internet is said person, it's basically impossible for multiplayer to be a really immersive experience.

Multiplayer can be fun.
Multiplayer can be tense.
But it's extremely hard to give a "scary" atmosphere to it.

 

[The Wykydtron]

Well, I doubt any potential scary stuff could survive a 12 year old from Alaska screaming "******" over and over again like a homophobic machinegun...

[sub][sub]I wonder if anyone gets that reference?[/sub][/sub]

Maybe a Dark Soulsishly hard game with co-op might work. L4D shows that epic difficulty does at least add tons of tension to the game, I never found the zombies in L4D "scary" exactly...

If nothing else DS has superb enemy design from an aesthetic standpoint. I would say the random guards and abominations standing in exactly the same place each and every respawn roaming the world are more imaginative than the bosses, not that the bosses aren't cool but come on the first few at least were ripped from every generic fantasy game ever.

Anyway the idea of a party of four banding together to pull through five casters (that teleport away as soon as you reach them, naturally) and a mob of crystalised goblins before fighting a boss is just cool. Yes the current MP system is good but a lobby of friends going through a 4 player Dark Souls? That's a win!

I can't work out if Dead Space 2's MP wasn't scary because it had ridiculous balance issues or if it was just generally shit... Maybe one life per human would have worked? Respawning at all without losing progress kills the "must survive!" stuff the single player has going for it

 

[Sniper Team 4]

Journey's multiplayer was very atmospheric. Adding multiplayer to it didn't break the mood at all. Of course, that's because you could in no way talk to the other person. The moment you can talk to another human, the atmosphere will be shot.

As for scary games? Um...there is one part in Resident Evil 5's DLC that can get a bit tense. When you play as Jill and Chris and end up in that watery basement. Playing it on Professional, the enemies do not show up on the map. Seeing as you're trapped in a maze and the enemies can one-hit you, my friend and I were on edge the entire time because every time we turned a corner, we weren't sure what would be there. But that doesn't really count as scary so much as it does tense. So honestly? I don't think it can be done. There will always be that one person who has to break the mood because they think it's funny.

 

[StriderShinryu]

I think one way ro avoid this issue is to essentially remove communication, at least in the direct vocal sense. There are games like Journey or the original Resident Evil Outbreak that do/did quite well with maintaining atmosphere even though they are multiplayer games simply because they don't let you just chat and talk trash. If you want to communicate at all, you have to do it via the inherent options that the game itself provides.

Of course, this raises the problem of not having communication in situations that obviously should allow for it. That's a little more difficult to overcome but could probably be done so with some intelligent design decisions. Either way, I agree that multiplayer in the standard format does have difficulty when it comes to maintaining any real fear factor.

 

[Cobbs]

I know I might get a bit of flak from this, but one game that has atmosphere in multiplayer is Minecraft. Wait, come back! No really! Hear me out! This is only on certain servers, preferably the anarchy kind (no rules, allowed to kill, destroy, steal, that sort of thing). Other players are suddenly potential threats, you're always on edge, and safety is only an illusion. But yeah, other than that, most multiplayer games don't really have atmosphere...

Playing minecraft with my girlfriend is terrifying. We'll be mining away all happy like when all of a sudden she screams as a creeper pops it's (redacted) head around the corner, which in turn makes me jump. That's fine and all, but after that the stupid scary cave noises start (YOU'VE ALL HEARD THEM) which immediately leads to me to digging straight up till I see precious daylight.

And on the multiplayer S.T.A.L.K.E.R. front that idea sounds amazing. It would work so brilliantly assuming that you get a decent team mate who wants to feel the atmosphere as well. Covering each other, sharing loot (maybe even being able to steal loot from one another may work) sharing ammo and money. Hell if one of you jumps and hoofs it and the other stands his ground against one of those big ass pig monsters things then you both have the respective choice of a) going back and helping your friend or b) hoofing it as well

 

[krazykidd]

Online no. Co-op of course .

Online you WILL get trolled . Co-op could work , BUT , you might play with a person more skilled or less skilled than you and then it will become annoying . Reahing a perfect balance would be hard . But it could work .

Then again , things are less scary when you aren't alone.

 

[pure.Wasted]

I think one way ro avoid this issue is to essentially remove communication, at least in the direct vocal sense. There are games like Journey or the original Resident Evil Outbreak that do/did quite well with maintaining atmosphere even though they are multiplayer games simply because they don't let you just chat and talk trash. If you want to communicate at all, you have to do it via the inherent options that the game itself provides.

Of course, this raises the problem of not having communication in situations that obviously should allow for it. That's a little more difficult to overcome but could probably be done so with some intelligent design decisions. Either way, I agree that multiplayer in the standard format does have difficulty when it comes to maintaining any real fear factor.

Bingo.

Either make direct communication impossible, ie. only being able to communicate through your avatars, or raise the stakes ridiculously high. See: EVE. If everything you've worked for can be legitimately taken away in seconds, you're going to be scared. The bad guy could look like a sweet old grannie in the middle of a grassy park in the morning, if dying means you lose your character, his wallet, his skills, whatever... you're going to freak out. No amount of "Lollerskates" over mic will change that.

 

[Lugbzurg]

Companionship usually kills any sense of horror in this stuff. So, I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon. Today's developers can't seem to get the concept of horror down even in an isolated single-player game. Even if it's a remake of Silent Hill 2!

 

[TephlonPrice]

If it's in a co-op sense, then yes.

Online, not so much.

The way to make it scary if we're talking co-op:

-Keep the players seperate for a good bit of time, requiring them to find each other amongst the monsters in the environments while keeping them distracted with puzzles and whatnot.

-When they do come together, create scenarios that require companionship while keeping the tension high (e.g. dual-use tools, levels, and whatnot) with randomized monster encounters and spawning.

-Encourage resource sharing among the players if possible, or at least some real two-player gameplay built with tension and sheer terror in mind.

-Randomize enemy encounters. Make it so that memorization doesn't work in some cases unless scripted to do so (see: some of Amnesia's encounters.)

-Limit communication to something recognizable and simple (eg. Journey's musical notes).

-Adjust the difficulty based on players in the level, so the more players = more enemy encounters and environmental death traps.

-Create incentives to get a move on.


If we're talking in an online, competitive, monsters-vs-humans/regular Joes/Desu:

-The monsters must have the same advantages they have in single player. (ex. Amnesia's Brute if there was an MP mode: fast-moving, OHK if connects, visual indications of players with low-sanity and whatnot, limited by spawning timer). This means they are as deadly as the AI enemies, combined with the advantage of human intelligence.

-The human or regulars must have the same capabilities they have in single player. (Can use physics puzzles galore to play against enemies, improv weapons, etc.) A set goal of something should always be the first thing so there's a reason as to their being there to escape.

-The monsters must be creative enough to create real tension (invisible monsters, fast-movers, hulking killers, etc.) amongst the regulars. And more importantly: they must be effective at their task.

 

[burningdragoon]

Well single-player survival horror isn't doing to well these days anyway, but yeah I think a co-op (and not something like L4D) could work. I think you'd need a few things to happen for it work well (as a survival horror).

- it'd have to be online-only, mostly because having someone in the same room as you would ruin the whole atmosphere

- you'd to spend a decent-to-significant amount of time separated, because having a companion will likely hurt the tension, atmosphere, etc.

- very limited communication, both for the in-game characters and the players, for the same reason as above. In fact either no direct voice-communication between players would be best if there is a involved enough story.

I'm thinking it would have to be limited story, just throwing 2 people in a bad situation and have them trying to figure a way out both together and separately only being able to communicate in a walkie-talkie way that has varying reception throughout the game.

It'd be quite a feat, but if it could be done effectively somehow.

Wow basically ninja'd. Above post hit the 2 main things I said too (limited communication and separation) among some other good ideas.

 

[kingcom]

I wanted to hear peoples' opinions on this, and wondered if there were any games that you think manage deep, immersive, co-op atmospheric/scary gameplay?
Because frankly I would love to play one

The largest problem with any survival horror game is that when you know there is very little downside to a failstate theres nothing to be worried about. Theres no tension or fear because if you die you reload/respawn. To me, only one game has ever managed to achieve any kind of real tension and drama in a horror sense and it was Eve Online (an MMO of all things). A game where you lose your ship and its gone forever, you need to build your funds up to buy a new one. A large section of the game world is free fire, where your able to attack anything that moves so people form alliances and peace treaties to secure space but ultimately your never safe in Eve.

The scenario I first recognised what Eve could do, I was flying to a station to buy some new equipment and it was a little out of the way but I figured it was so empty people wouldnt bother with it. I jumpped through a gate straight into 5 players sitting there waiting to kill anyone who came through. So i bolted, popped my engines to maximum and burned to the gate while hoping my shields would hold off long enough for me to get through. I made it through but they had started breaking my armour with my shields down and just as I was trying to figure out I was going to do next another two players came after me. This lead me on a 15 minute chase trying to make it through safe and avoid the other dangerous locations as the players chasing me were trying to box me out and beat me to safely. The entire time my hearts pound and im was starting to panic as my fairly expensive ship (at the time for me) was going to go boom. I ultimately made it out but no game experience has managed to achieve the same experience.

So lets analyse why I felt fear in a multiplayer environment.

Well theres the obvious atmosphere of the cold, dark empty void of space all around me, with the tiny hints of light as I was running (effectively blind as you cant see whats beyond the next stargate your trying to go through).

Theres the pressure and hope that the next gate is clear which really ramps up the tension. Being alone certainly helped but I was on teamspeak with my alliance members who were trying to get me home safely.

There the pack mentality going on behind me as they taunted and insulted me, trying to get me to make a mistake, reminded me of something like condemned but far more natural as these were real people trying to get a kill rather than a single purpose driven script designed to spout lines and find waypoints.

Theres the one mentioned of actual lose, my 100 million ISK (money)ship could have gone POOF in an instance if I was just a fraction too slow or I decided to go one direction or another.

The scenario was created because I needed to wander off and get something of value to strengthen me later on so the game actively funnels you into these kinds of situations.

A multiplayer needs to make a game where player are both hunters and hunted, you let the system actually support this and you create something far more scary than a pre-programed solution could.

 

[Dr Bodom]

I remember back when I used to play CounterStrke 1.6 there was zombie mod that was pretty damn scary. At the start of the game a random player was turned into a zombie which had an insane amount of health but could transform others with one hit. Bullets had the effect of slowing zombies but once one person in a group got infected, they quickly tried to infect as many others as possible. Pretty damn intense when you are one of the few survivors left running from 20 human controlled zombies.

 

[burningdragoon]

Well single-player survival horror isn't doing to well these days anyway, but yeah I think a co-op (and not something like L4D) could work. I think you'd need a few things to happen for it work well (as a survival horror).

- it'd have to be online-only, mostly because having someone in the same room as you would ruin the whole atmosphere

- you'd to spend a decent-to-significant amount of time separated, because having a companion will likely hurt the tension, atmosphere, etc.

- very limited communication, both for the in-game characters and the players, for the same reason as above. In fact either no direct voice-communication between players would be best if there is a involved enough story.

I'm thinking it would have to be limited story, just throwing 2 people in a bad situation and have them trying to figure a way out both together and separately only being able to communicate in a walkie-talkie way that has varying reception throughout the game.

It'd be quite a feat, but if it could be done effectively somehow.

Wow basically ninja'd. Above post hit the 2 main things I said too (limited communication and separation) among some other good ideas.

2nd Edit: Actually, I've always considered Demon's Souls (and Dark Souls, but Demon's more) to be partially a survival horror game. It's scary as shit to be walking through the tunnels near the Flamelurker and have the black soul invasion message pop up. Especially when you're severely unprepared to fight someone. So yeah, a Souls-like game could be turned into a co-op survival horror pretty well I think.

BAH! Hit quote, not edit. :/

 

[II2]

I think it will - and by god I want it to - but it hasn't yet...

I think they key to it would hinge on disabling voice chat and user IDs, such that the 'meta' elements of multiplayer do not interfere with the atmosphere. I believe that the feeling of being hunted by a real intelligence that genuinely wants to "get you" is a more fearful prospect than a fast / competent bot.

Basically, if you took Journey's minimal communication approach to a game in a predatory, atmospheric PvP environment, I think you could work some very interesting scenarios. While most people would think of this game in terms of controlling people, I think it might work even better in a 'virtual ecosystem' environment of predator and prey expressed in a more bizarre or grotesque aesthetic. The idea of an intelligent humanoid coming to get you is tense, but not fightening, but the idea of a malevolent CREATURE with a real mind coming for you...

I think while the execution of the game would demand carefully attuned crafting to convey the experience and a willingness of the players to invest in the fear, it's absolutely doable and could be very interesting.

------

While not really *like* I'm describing, Natural Selection 2 looks to have some interesting "be the monster" team PvP ideas blended into a neat mix of FPS and RTS.


I was a big fan of the Quake 2 total conversion multiplayer mod "Gloom" to which this game is the spritual successor of (iterations of).

 

[Phisi]

If you know the people you are playing with and you are all playing it 'correctly' then yes. It is far easier to produce tense gameplay and horror could be extended from that. Killing Floor is damn tense and scary by yourself but when playing with other people it loses some of it's scariness unless you are separated from them, basically when your in deep shit but when people start dying they spectate and say stupid stuff and it no longer becomes scary. I think it can be done. Amnesia still makes you shit your pants if you are playing while chatting to friends.

 

[Lilani]

Anytime you throw more people into the mix, especially if they must cooperate with each other to some degree, controlling the atmosphere is going to get exponentially more difficult. Frustration is a much easier emotion to trigger than fear. And if there's one thing that can get frustrating very quickly, it's playing with other people online. Then if you throw open communication into the mix, that eliminates pretty much any chance of the game having any bearing on the atmosphere. You'll always have casual conversation, people taking the piss, trolls, kids, and micspammers lined up to kill the mood. Unless all of the players are dedicated to receiving the same from the experience, they will always find ways of overpowering whatever atmosphere the game is trying to set up. That is simply inherent of free and open communication online.

Other atmospheres may be easier to achieve with other players in the mix, like a general sense of awe (majestic scenery), claustrophobia, or other more visceral atmospheres. But fear is psychological, and requires a fragile mix of elements. A little too much or little of something and the fear is gone. I think it's worth looking into, but I think communication would be the biggest obstacle in that endeavor.

 

[bigfatcarp93]

Alright, I hear what a lot of you are saying: it can't work, because, as OP said, it would be a lot of talking and fucking around, and as others have said, most of the online community would spend time trying to ruin an otherwise atmospheric experience because... well, they do that. Indeed, I don't think it's possible -YET- to do this in a cooperative game.

However.

Consider this: a small group of players, ideally two or three, four tops, in the roles of armed human characters, are put up against a larger group (say between eight and twenty) of players in the role of the monsters (something weak but stealthy) in a dark, sinister environment. There's no atmosphere for the antagonist players, but the protagonists get an amazing gaming experience: a dark, spooky, lonely fight for survival with a few friends against a large number of enemies who, and this is the best part, are guided by real human intelligence. What could be more chilling than that?

Well... thoughts?