Will we ever be without currency?

[endtherapture]

My friend and I were having a debate earlier about whether the human race will ever lose the need for currency due to hypothetical scientific advancements?

I argued that with enough scientific and technological developments we might develop a Star Trek-like society where people do things because it's what they love, and there will be no need for currency when science advances to a certain level because we might have robots to the menial rap jobs, wihilst people just go into fields for jobs because it's what they love, and due to infinite resources and technology, there will be no need for currency (obviously highly hypothetical, but this is a hypothetical argument).

However he said that no matter how far science goes, replicators, infinite crops and energy, advanced robots etc. there will always be currency and we will always be a capitalist society.

What is your opinion (be srs pls)

 

[senordesol]

Yes, I believe there will always be a need for currency. You can have replicators and infinite space, but there will always be some sort of thing somewhere that requires things that cannot be replicated.

If I design and build a kick-ass spaceship, and someone wants it; that's years of my life he's asking for -yeah, all the materials were readily available but I'm the one who put it together better than anyone else can; so I'm going to want something in exchange. Given items of that particular value, it's impractical to think that my client could barter for it, so I'm going to need some sort of note of value or credit -exchangeable anywhere- in order to be convinced to part with my creation.

 

[Quaxar]

Well with replicators and infinite resources there really isn't a need for any kind of economy. But apart from that purely theoretical state I don't see a way around some form of fiat currency as a means of measuring, defining and storing value and exchanging it for goods and services.

 

[Foolery]

No. Sorry to be pessimistic, but I think the world as we know it will likely run itself into ground before that. So, sure currency will be gone in a sense, but no Star Trek future.

 

[Esotera]

Well with replicators and infinite resources there really isn't a need for any kind of economy. But apart from that purely theoretical state I don't see a way around some form of fiat currency as a means of measuring, defining and storing value and exchanging it for goods and services.

You need people to design things that the replicators create (until computers become very smart, at least).

OT: Currency is a form of control on the individual as ultimately the government/central bank decides how much it's worth. And you will still need it if you want to eat food, as whoever owns the land is going to charge you even if it costs them nothing to produce. I can only see it disappearing in socialist countries, and even then there will still be bartering & it will probably be needed for international trade.

 

[endtherapture]

Yes, I believe there will always be a need for currency. You can have replicators and infinite space, but there will always be some sort of thing somewhere that requires things that cannot be replicated.

If I design and build a kick-ass spaceship, and someone wants it; that's years of my life he's asking for -yeah, all the materials were readily available but I'm the one who put it together better than anyone else can; so I'm going to want something in exchange. Given items of that particular value, it's impractical to think that my client could barter for it, so I'm going to need some sort of note of value or credit -exchangeable anywhere- in order to be convinced to part with my creation.

But what replicators and infinite space, what are you going to buy with the currency you've got for your spaceship when everything is on tap and currency is worth nothing? Surely you're designing spaceships for fun at this point? I certainly would, as some people see science as a calling instead of something other than simply making money.

 

[hoockhand]

I highly doubt that we will be without any currency in any form.

 

[senordesol]

Yes, I believe there will always be a need for currency. You can have replicators and infinite space, but there will always be some sort of thing somewhere that requires things that cannot be replicated.

If I design and build a kick-ass spaceship, and someone wants it; that's years of my life he's asking for -yeah, all the materials were readily available but I'm the one who put it together better than anyone else can; so I'm going to want something in exchange. Given items of that particular value, it's impractical to think that my client could barter for it, so I'm going to need some sort of note of value or credit -exchangeable anywhere- in order to be convinced to part with my creation.

But what replicators and infinite space, what are you going to buy with the currency you've got for your spaceship when everything is on tap and currency is worth nothing? Surely you're designing spaceships for fun at this point? I certainly would, as some people see science as a calling instead of something other than simply making money.

Land perhaps? An Epic Holodeck program 20 years in the making? A seat at a special school?

Basically any commodity that can't be simply replicated with raw materials.

 

[Quaxar]

Well with replicators and infinite resources there really isn't a need for any kind of economy. But apart from that purely theoretical state I don't see a way around some form of fiat currency as a means of measuring, defining and storing value and exchanging it for goods and services.

You need people to design things that the replicators create (until computers become very smart, at least).

RepRap is already able to replicate all the parts you need to build a copy. I don't see a reason why in the distant future a replicator can't just replicate anything as-is, especially in a sci-fi version where humanity has risen to godhood with infinite resources.

OT: Currency is a form of control on the individual as ultimately the government/central bank decides how much it's worth. And you will still need it if you want to eat food, as whoever owns the land is going to charge you even if it costs them nothing to produce. I can only see it disappearing in socialist countries, and even then there will still be bartering & it will probably be needed for international trade.

If the gouvernment just "decided what it's worth" we wouldn't have recession... also, the Soviets had the ruble, North Korea has their won (which is ironically tied to the USD) and so on.
The only country that ever tried to abolish money was Pol Pot's Cambodia, living the Marxist dream of getting rid of money, markets and any private property, even going so far as to blow up the Central Bank to make a point. Now it's one of the most impovered and least developed countries in the world with a population that has so little trust in its local currency they'll convert anything into material wealth or put it in USD saving accounts, despite the dollar's triple interest rates.

 

[Esotera]

Well with replicators and infinite resources there really isn't a need for any kind of economy. But apart from that purely theoretical state I don't see a way around some form of fiat currency as a means of measuring, defining and storing value and exchanging it for goods and services.

You need people to design things that the replicators create (until computers become very smart, at least).

RepRap is already able to replicate all the parts you need to build a copy. I don't see a reason why in the distant future a replicator can't just replicate anything as-is, especially in a sci-fi version where humanity has risen to godhood with infinite resources.

That assumes that no new objects will ever be created after replicators are available. I just don't see that happening at all as technology will continue to advance and humanity has always designed new things even when it's not strictly necessary - i.e. you could buy about a million different variations on sofas but the first one did the job just fine.

OT: Currency is a form of control on the individual as ultimately the government/central bank decides how much it's worth. And you will still need it if you want to eat food, as whoever owns the land is going to charge you even if it costs them nothing to produce. I can only see it disappearing in socialist countries, and even then there will still be bartering & it will probably be needed for international trade.

If the gouvernment just "decided what it's worth" we wouldn't have recession... also, the Soviets had the ruble, North Korea has their won (which is ironically tied to the USD) and so on.
The only country that ever tried to abolish money was Pol Pot's Cambodia, living the Marxist dream of getting rid of money, markets and any private property, even going so far as to blow up the Central Bank to make a point. Now it's one of the most impovered and least developed countries in the world with a population that has so little trust in its local currency they'll convert anything into material wealth or put it in USD saving accounts, despite the dollar's triple interest rates.

Central banks decide what a unit of currency can buy through quantitative easing - adding cheap money reduces consumer spending power as there's more of it around. So if the government tried to come out of recession by giving everyone an extra 10% of what they already own, no-one would be better off as prices would probably go up by that much anyway. But there would likely be a short-term burst in growth.

 

[Nielas]

Well with replicators and infinite resources there really isn't a need for any kind of economy. But apart from that purely theoretical state I don't see a way around some form of fiat currency as a means of measuring, defining and storing value and exchanging it for goods and services.

You need people to design things that the replicators create (until computers become very smart, at least).

RepRap is already able to replicate all the parts you need to build a copy. I don't see a reason why in the distant future a replicator can't just replicate anything as-is, especially in a sci-fi version where humanity has risen to godhood with infinite resources.

Replication is much different than creation. I can copy a video game any number of times but I do not have the skill to create it. No matter what you build, someone will have to come up with the original design and a prototype.

In an infinite resources society people will trade for the time of skilled people do things that they would normally not do on their own. Maybe the best jetpack designer in the world does not feel like designing a special jetpack for me but will do it for me in exchange for me painting a portrait of his wife. The currency in that situation would be "favours".

 

[Quaxar]

That assumes that no new objects will ever be created after replicators are available. I just don't see that happening at all as technology will continue to advance and humanity has always designed new things even when it's not strictly necessary - i.e. you could buy about a million different variations on sofas but the first one did the job just fine.

Replication is much different than creation. I can copy a video game any number of times but I do not have the skill to create it. No matter what you build, someone will have to come up with the original design and a prototype.

In an infinite resources society people will trade for the time of skilled people do things that they would normally not do on their own. Maybe the best jetpack designer in the world does not feel like designing a special jetpack for me but will do it for me in exchange for me painting a portrait of his wife. The currency in that situation would be "favours".

Well we were assuming a hypthetical quasi-godhood situation of an infinitely advanced society with infinite resources.
Fine, let me specify then that I was talking about a Star Trek-esque replication machine that can produce anything you could desire, even a new IKEA couch or a portrait of your wife's left ear.

Any anyway, with perfect replication it's not much of an economy since you could have no real way of determining wealth and could really just do some sort of Craigslist "need doctor, will give foot massage" direct exchange. But this is getting too much into economics for my liking so I'll probably leave it here.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Nope sorry but human greed is will never cease. Even then it will take like finding some endless (infinite wealth or whatever we desire) for currency to end.

 

[NoMercy Rider]

Yeah, a currency free society will never exist, purely due to human nature. Due to our nature, all humans place value on different things, emotions, etc. So even if there is infinite supply of a good, there will still be a human value attached to that good and as a result, each individual will be willing to give up a value of their own to obtain that good. Even though it seems counter intuitive to think that there could be value attached to an item of infinite supply.

Though the traditional sense of "money" may cease to exist, it is only inevitable that some other form of "currency" will take its place. Whether is be a bartering system, trading time, sex, social status, power, you could think of just about anything under the sun.

In summary, Goods, services, and/or time will always have an inherent value regardless of supply. And as long as that exists, individuals will be willing to part with currency (of any kind) in exchange for those goods/services/time.

 

[davidmc1158_v1legacy]

Well, one definition of currency ha always been "a unit of measurement to allow for consistency in exchanges."

Since money really has no inherent value under that perspective, then I do not think we will ever get rid of it. We will need (or at least find very useful) a unit of measurement in order to move around resources.

However, outside of that definition, in a hypothetical universe of infinite space and resources, the concept of money as an inherently valuable thing would probably go away.

If that made any sense.

 

[Danny Ocean]

I argued that with enough scientific and technological developments we might develop a Star Trek-like society where people do things because it's what they love, and there will be no need for currency when science advances to a certain level because we might have robots to the menial rap jobs, wihilst people just go into fields for jobs because it's what they love, and due to infinite resources and technology, there will be no need for currency (obviously highly hypothetical, but this is a hypothetical argument).

Congratulations, you're a Communist.

Seriously, you are.

More on topic? No, money is not going to go away any time soon. Perhaps at some point in the future your scenario will come about through the discoveries of infinite or near-infinite energy and resources.

Until then, greed and the hedonic treadmill will keep resources scarce.

 

[Lilani]

The point of currency is to have a medium of trade that has a fixed value. Unless we shift to an economy that doesn't require trading, which I don't see ever happening.

I argued that with enough scientific and technological developments we might develop a Star Trek-like society where people do things because it's what they love, and there will be no need for currency when science advances to a certain level because we might have robots to the menial rap jobs, wihilst people just go into fields for jobs because it's what they love, and due to infinite resources and technology, there will be no need for currency (obviously highly hypothetical, but this is a hypothetical argument).

The problem with this is you're relying on the idea that people aren't going to be assholes when given the freedom to do whatever they want. The problem is--they are. Sure you might get some who actually want to go into robotic engineering, but you'll never be able to guarantee you'll have enough without some sort of a perk behind it. Plus, there's robot maintenance. I mean yes you can build maintenance robots, but who's going to fix them? Who's going to be on call to fix the broken fixer robots? Who's going to deal with scouting for more supplies? Who's going to make sure no ethics laws are violated while new raw materials are being found? Who's going to monitor the work the robots are doing to make sure nothing is going wrong unchecked? Who's going to provide customer service and listen to people's complaints when these things do go wrong?

There will always be undesirable jobs that have to be filled by people, and there will always be a requirement for some medium of trade to compensate them for this work. If you let people just "do what they want" then you're going to get a lot of people devoted to leisure or dead-end pursuits. I'm not saying people can't be self-motivated, but I know if I had the choice to never work on anything but things that benefit me without any repercussions I would totally be all over that. I'd produce my art, eat the food I want, and never work retail again. This is where the "asshole" theory comes in. If you give people the options of work or leisure, they're going to take leisure most of the time. If you think there are people who WANT to work in fields, at least enough people to fulfill the demand for that type of work, then you must be either very ignorant or very naive. A lot can change in the future, but never human nature.

 

[BarkBarker]

If it has worth, it becomes valuable, if it becomes valuable, it becomes sought after and traded, if there is trade, there is currency, as long as there is something you want that someone else has, it will exist, for all time.

 

[RJ 17]

I argued that with enough scientific and technological developments we might develop a Star Trek-like society where people do things because it's what they love, and there will be no need for currency when science advances to a certain level because we might have robots to the menial rap jobs, wihilst people just go into fields for jobs because it's what they love, and due to infinite resources and technology, there will be no need for currency (obviously highly hypothetical, but this is a hypothetical argument).

Ahhhh but even in the advanced world of Star Trek they still have currency. Basically the only way for us to advance to a point where currency would not be needed is if we advance to the point where we can create matter (supposedly from raw energy) and would as such have no need to purchase resources. That or we regress back to a barter system, but even in barter systems what you're bartering with essentially becomes your currency. I doubt someone would trade an entire cow of a single loaf of bread...why? Because a cow is worth more than a loaf of bread, even in a world without currency.

Besides that, with the rate we're currently going I'm wagering that we'll end up in a future more like the one depicted in the movie Idiocracy rather than Star Trek.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

EVER? Yes, of course we will be without currency. Assuming we survive that long, there won't be any point to currency when we evolve to gaseous blobs in a trillion years. SOMEDAY currency will cease to exist.

However, we probably won't do away with money before we go extinct.

It's a pretty necessary tool.