Windows 10 to Force Updates

[Jack Action]

I'm okay with it. Home users tend to be the less computer-savvy ones. My mother has not once installed any kind of update on any of the laptops she's had. And if there's a popup, she will leave it there indefinitely. I'm her computer maintenance. Force that shit.

That's precisely why it shouldn't be forced though, unless you enjoy hearing "WHY DOESN'T X WORK ANYMORE AND HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE YOU TO FIX IT?"

Is this really a surprise?

They've made it known Windows 10 will be the 'last Windows OS for the foreseeable future', implying they're switching to a service-platform model for the OS. As a result, 'forced' updates are pretty much par for the course.

Not sure how I feel on this just yet, I have many thoughts on the matter, but I'm certainly not surprised.

Almost scared to ask, but what does "service-platform model" mean?

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

This is why I'm very proud to use Lubuntu at the moment. I can ignore updates all together if I want, auto update always asks before it does an update. Also I've never had a Linux update break anything.

How is that for gaming? Every year I tell myself "This year ... this year I'll check it out ..." but I'm too fundamentally lazy, I guess.

Lubuntu is probably one of the better (x)buntus for gaming because it's so light weight. For games with natives for platform it's really good, I mean so long as there is a Linux port, or the game is naturally cross compatible like say FTL. You'll need WINE to run windows games on it otherwise, which is fine so long as you have a powerful enough computer usually, but there are always going to be problems you'll need to fix first. Mostly just downloading dependencies, which front ends like PlayOnLinux and utilities like Winetricks help with. Though you'll notice far lower performance playing windows games on any Linux with WINE.

That said, you can always dual boot, which is my plan as soon as I can get a Windows 7 OEM. Linux is better for most everything, save windows for exclusive programs and games.

Edit: One thing to watch out for with Linux is proprietary drivers, as both video card makers have holes in their support for some model series of cards, or specific GPUs. Also Nvidia cards will have a much easier time of it than AMD/ATi cards will, as Nvidia makes better Linux drivers generally speaking, while AMD's are garbage.

 

[Supernova1138]

I'm okay with it. Home users tend to be the less computer-savvy ones. My mother has not once installed any kind of update on any of the laptops she's had. And if there's a popup, she will leave it there indefinitely. I'm her computer maintenance. Force that shit.

That's precisely why it shouldn't be forced though, unless you enjoy hearing "WHY DOESN'T X WORK ANYMORE AND HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE YOU TO FIX IT?"

Is this really a surprise?

They've made it known Windows 10 will be the 'last Windows OS for the foreseeable future', implying they're switching to a service-platform model for the OS. As a result, 'forced' updates are pretty much par for the course.

Not sure how I feel on this just yet, I have many thoughts on the matter, but I'm certainly not surprised.

Almost scared to ask, but what does "service-platform model" mean?

Probably more pushing people towards the Microsoft App Store so Microsoft can take a cut. Worst case, expect to either see ads out the wazoo or having to pay a subscription fee at some point. Microsoft's old business model isn't working too great anymore, at least as far as the consumer market is concerned, as you had people clinging to Windows XP for well over a decade and it looks like something similar might wind up happening with Windows 7, which is why Microsoft is offering free upgrades to Windows 10 for all Windows 7 owners. People aren't rushing out to buy the latest version of Windows that comes out every 3 or 4 years, and consumer PC sales are increasingly being cannibalized by tablets and phones, so that path to getting people to use the new version of Windows is closing off. Microsoft has decided to start emulating the mobile market, and simply push out new versions of Windows as a free update from here on out and try to monetize it in other ways.

 

[Jack Action]

Probably more pushing people towards the Microsoft App Store so Microsoft can take a cut. Worst case, expect to either see ads out the wazoo or having to pay a subscription fee at some point. Microsoft's old business model isn't working too great anymore, at least as far as the consumer market is concerned, as you had people clinging to Windows XP for well over a decade and it looks like something similar might wind up happening with Windows 7, which is why Microsoft is offering free upgrades to Windows 10 for all Windows 7 owners. People aren't rushing out to buy the latest version of Windows that comes out every 3 or 4 years, and consumer PC sales are increasingly being cannibalized by tablets and phones, so that path to getting people to use the new version of Windows is closing off. Microsoft has decided to start emulating the mobile market, and simply push out new versions of Windows as a free update from here on out and try to monetize it in other ways.

Ah, the good old "it's not our fault only every 2nd one of our products sells." On a related note, if they're really doing this, do we all take after Kyuubi Fayathon and migrate to Steam OS or something? Because despite MS' claims of having seen the light and repenting their sins against the Master Race, a windows chock-full of ads and built entirely around the Store doesn't seem like a particularly good idea for gaming, especially if someone gets the bright idea to, I dunno, sell driver updates or something.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Ah, the good old "it's not our fault only every 2nd one of our products sells." On a related note, if they're really doing this, do we all take after Kyuubi Fayathon and migrate to Steam OS or something? Because despite MS' claims of having seen the light and repenting their sins against the Master Race, a windows chock-full of ads and built entirely around the Store doesn't seem like a particularly good idea for gaming, especially if someone gets the bright idea to, I dunno, sell driver updates or something.

Luckily drivers almost always come from the manufacturer, not microsoft, so there is little chance of that actually happening. Especially because most hardware manufacturers know that if they try to charge for drivers the bottom will drop out of their market. Also factor in that these same manufacturers also have to make drivers for OS X and Linux, I'm not sure about OS X users, but you'll never get Linux users to pay for drivers or driver updates.

The problem with migrations to Linux can all be summed up in this statement: Linux[footnote]insert distribution here, like Ubuntu for example.[/footnote] is not windows. There is actually quite a learning curve in adopting any Linux distribution as your full time OS, especially because, even at the best of times, Linux is less user friendly. Not to mention that the ability to work with it's command line interface, even when you have a desktop environment, is a must.

 

[Jack Action]

Luckily drivers almost always come from the manufacturer, not microsoft, so there is little chance of that actually happening. Especially because most hardware manufacturers know that if they try to charge for drivers the bottom will drop out of their market. Also factor in that these same manufacturers also have to make drivers for OS X and Linux, I'm not sure about OS X users, but you'll never get Linux users to pay for drivers or driver updates.

The problem with migrations to Linux can all be summed up in this statement: Linux[footnote]insert distribution here, like Ubuntu for example.[/footnote] is not windows. There is actually quite a learning curve in adopting any Linux distribution as your full time OS, especially because, even at the best of times, Linux is less user friendly. Not to mention that the ability to work with it's command line interface, even when you have a desktop environment, is a must.

Well, yeah, we're unlikely to see actual drivers being sold, true (was just being a dick again), but I wouldn't put it past anyone who owns an App Store to release a "Pro Gaming Optimization" bundle, or a similar dystopian idea that would never happen until it does. Enables the use of up to four extra GB of RAM and includes exclusive Nvidia tweaks for all recent releases!

Also, I imagine Steam OS will be a fair bit more user-friendly than Linux. At least I hope so. Ubuntu confuses and infuriates me.

 

[cathou]

I'm okay with it. Home users tend to be the less computer-savvy ones. My mother has not once installed any kind of update on any of the laptops she's had. And if there's a popup, she will leave it there indefinitely. I'm her computer maintenance. Force that shit.

That's precisely why it shouldn't be forced though, unless you enjoy hearing "WHY DOESN'T X WORK ANYMORE AND HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE YOU TO FIX IT?"

yes but let's face it. 90% of computer users are not like you and me and doesnt know anything about how the computer work. they use it to use office, go on the web and play minesweeper. the chance that they install someting that will be disrupted by a windows update is very slim.

you, that use a bazillion software, play games and twwek you windows to be the fastest as possible, on another hand, have much more chances to hit a bug after a windows update. but let's face it, you will probably go for windows pro version.

so doing that for home version. i'm alright with that...

 

[Vigormortis]

Almost scared to ask, but what does "service-platform model" mean?

As far as I'm aware, their plan is to release Windows 10 and continually update it for the foreseeable future, rather than update it a few times and then build an all new architecture.

Think of it like....Steam, iTunes, Origin, or GoG's Galaxy. It's a single product that's updated, adapted, and rebuilt as time goes on to allow the platform to evolve and progress with changes in technology.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Almost scared to ask, but what does "service-platform model" mean?

As far as I'm aware, their plan is to release Windows 10 and continually update it for the foreseeable future, rather than update it a few times and then build an all new architecture.

Think of it like....Steam, iTunes, Origin, or GoG's Galaxy. It's a single product that's updated, adapted, and rebuilt as time goes on to allow the platform to evolve and progress with changes in technology.

You mean like LTS versions of say Ubuntu like 14, with 5 year life spans. Right?

Excepting that they don't fundamentally change the Ubuntu core much when they move version to version, those changes happen over time and evolve with the kernel.

 

[Vigormortis]

You mean like LTS versions of say Ubuntu like 14, with 5 year life spans. Right?

Excepting that they don't fundamentally change the Ubuntu core much when they move version to version, those changes happen over time and evolve with the kernel.

Based on Microsoft's statements on W10, it sounds like they're aiming for a far longer life span than ~5 years.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

I haven't updated my Windows 8 in over a year now. Wanna know why? Because last time I did so it completely broke my PC down for two weeks, cost me a hundred dollars, and I had to completely reinstall Windows and all of my other applications.

If you couldn't guess, I'm very against forced-updating. I'm already pissed that they hid the update options so deep in your computer you need a map and torch to find it. Forcing me no matter what to update can just fuck the right off.

Boom!

Nailed my issue with this sort of thing almost immediately. Thank ya kindly.

Don't believe I've updated my Windows 7 copy in...about a year? Haven't had any reason to, really.

Any issues I come across? I just look it up and address them as they come. I don't trust Microsoft to not brick my PC, especially after some fun crap I've had to deal with over the years (Vista was a niiiightmare for me) so...wary as all get out here.

 

[Drathnoxis]

Yeah, that little icon telling me to upgrade from Win7 to Win10 can fuck off harder now. Then again, I had no intention of going to Win10 to begin with considering how much I hated having Win8 on my laptop. My next OS will probably be Steam or Ubuntu, but I don't have a reason to update any time soon, so I'm not going to.

That icon is the result of update KB3035583, you can get rid of it by going to control panel>Windows update>installed updates and right clicking to uninstall it. Then be sure to go back into windows update and check for new updates and when you see KB3035583 in the list right click on it and hide it.

OT: It's amazing how Microsoft can manage to make each installment of Windows even worse than the last. I have no intention to update from Windows 7, even if it is "free."

 

[mad825]

So... is the update worth it? I'm not very technosavy, so I have no idea if it's a good idea or not...

The problem of what they're doing will effect your computer performance whenever it decides to update. Also, whatever features they'll add you forced to have them, you will have no choice in the matter.

It's not that bad. I install 98% of the updates that come through Windows Update however I do hope they don't force graphic driver updates (although it doesn't effect because I'm getting pro).

 

[Creator002]

That's great, considering one of the recent Win 7 updates randomly either shuts off my graphics card (as in makes the screen black or freeze, I can still use the PC and the card's fans still spin) or makes my PC blue screen (citing the graphics card as the problem).
I can see them back peddling before long if people make a big enough stink.

I know it's not the card as I've had it tested in other machines and it only started happening since one of the updates.

 

[TechNoFear]

It isn't exactly 100% new that Windows 10 would force install updates for Home users.

It would take me less than an hour to write an app to allow me to control when it updates...

So I do not see it as a big problem, the fact that Win 10 appears to have many of Win 8.1's bugs is much more of an issue.

 

[Ambient_Malice]

I sure loved when the initial build of 8.1 bricked my PC upon upgrading since I failed to wait for the fixed version. It was sheer bliss when Windows 8 automatically installed another update that prevented USB devices from functioning, thus locking out mouse and keyboard.

I'm just so hyped for Windows 10. Literally nothing could possibly go wrong.

 

[CrystalShadow]

-sigh- While I tend to install all updates when they become available anyway, I've had major system failures caused by dodgy updates at least 3 or 4 times.
I have the after-effects of one affecting my system right now, in fact.
The bulk of the problem is fixed, sure, but some irritating bugs remain.
All because an update installed that wasn't quite right.

Given what I've seen happen this could go terribly bad sooner or later.

 

[mysecondlife]

Seems unlikely that I can still play Witcher 3 and Dark Souls on my PC without having to redownload if I upgrade.

So my response would be...


Oh... shit.

 

[DoPo]

Almost scared to ask, but what does "service-platform model" mean?

As far as I'm aware, their plan is to release Windows 10 and continually update it for the foreseeable future, rather than update it a few times and then build an all new architecture.

Think of it like....Steam, iTunes, Origin, or GoG's Galaxy. It's a single product that's updated, adapted, and rebuilt as time goes on to allow the platform to evolve and progress with changes in technology.

You mean like LTS versions of say Ubuntu like 14, with 5 year life spans. Right?

Excepting that they don't fundamentally change the Ubuntu core much when they move version to version, those changes happen over time and evolve with the kernel.

It sounds more like the distros using a rolling release, such as Gentoo.

 

[LordLundar]

I'm still waiting on this. There's a year that this is running, the initial launch is amounting to little more than a release candidate launch, and there's the option to roll back to the previous version available.

Do I trust the Win 10 launch? Oh hell no! I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop (though the initial launch plans seem to qualify for that) but I have the luxury of waiting.