With the reveal of the PS4 and it's specs, is the WiiU in trouble?

[MetalDooley]

3) During the first 6 weeks, WiiU software sales were "far behind" Wii and Gamecube levels.

"Totals for the November-December period were -43% lower than software sales for the Wii and -50% lower than those for the GameCube."

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/386207/wii-u-game-sales-far-behind-launch-levels-for-gamecube-and-wii/

You can pretend all you want that the WiiU is doing great and the slump in sales is excusable because of the economy/Santa not delivering/etc... but we will see how it performs in the future.

I have seen quite a few articles questioning whether the WiiU will be the next Gamecube. It's not about which console is the most powerful, it's about which console is too weak to get ports.

Ok firstly I was talking about hardware sales not software.The Wii had lower software sales per console than either the PS3 or 360 but that didn't stop it outselling both of those consoles.Nintendo reported that they'd shifted around 12 million games with those 3 million consoles so an average of 4 games per console isn't that bad considering how long it's been out and the relatively weak launch line up

Secondly I'm not pretending that the Wii U is doing great.I'm just not being as negative as a lot of people seem to be.3 million+ sales so far compares very favorably with other console launches.It took PS3 and 360 a lot longer than 6 weeks to reach those figures yet there was nowhere near the same level of negativity.I reckon given the early performances of their previous consoles that both Sony and MS would be pretty happy to have 3 million sales after the first 6 weeks.And I'd be willing to bet that if they both sell around that amount no on will be calling them failures

 

[xPixelatedx]

snip

1) No
2) Eventually
3) I think Nintendo won't do as well as before, but on par with how the PS3 fared overall. The wiiU seems to be on par with what the PS3 offered people in features and games.

The problem here is graphics are ultimately irrelevant when considering several other factors. This is why the wii did as good as it did last gen; that and the fact that Nintendo already saw the casual market was fickle and unsustainable. They aren't exclusively aiming at them anymore, and in fact I would argue they aren't aiming at them at all in several ways. They have done numerous things to once again try and bring back the core audience, things like those Nintendo direct videos where they speak to US, not the industry. No artsy fartsy speeches about how gaming should convey this or that, or how sharing things with your friends justifies a lack of features.
In 1 minute of this video there is more talk about videogames then in the entire Sony conference.

That's when the startling realization hits...

Sony is the one aiming at the causal audience now.

The emphasis on social networking BEFORE games at the Sony conference was just staggering. If they never said 'PS4' I may have been mistaken in thinking they were talking about a revolutionary new tablet to compete with apple, or just more vita stuff. The lack of backwards compatibility also showed signs they weren't neccisairly aiming at gamers as a whole, but rather a new audience. Apparently Sony does not yet know what Nintendo already does: those people have moved to tablets and phones. Nintendo adding backwards compatibility shows exactly who their aiming at. Your grandma clearly wouldn't need it; it's for you. It's basically the most gamer-centric specific feature a console could have. I am glad they concentrated their efforts on that instead of allowing my friends to watch me play Mario or something else equally as frivolous. These are game consoles, and as a core gamer I want all the efforts put into making sure I have the widest gaming experience as possible, this includes back catalogs, not sharing videos.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

I think the Wii U may be in trouble.

Not because of the specs mind you, it's mainly because the core demographic of the Wii was casual gamers. Casual gamers are less willing to pay $350 on a console who's main gimmick has been done before on the DS. Not to mention that the Wii U is being more marketed towards the "hardcore" crowd, who are used to a standard controller and tend to focus more on the lineup then the console. Most of the Wii U's sales will come from hardcore fans of Nintendo's First Party lineup + casual gamers who want to see what the successor to the Wii is all about. Contrast this with the PS4/Xbox 720 which will have controllers and online systems hardcore gamers are accustomed to, in addition to more launch titles. I'd imagine most third-party devs will develop for the standard PlayStation/Xbox/PC trifecta and ignore the Wii U due to it's different controller and console setup.

Really Wii U's main advantage right now is that it released early, it has alot going against it after that.

 

[The Lugz]

i dont think it makes a bit of difference, it's just a pc dressed as a console and pc's
aren't considered a danger to the wiiu so why should this be?
we know it won't be any cheaper than a wiiu because that would be absurd.

anyone that seriously wanted a wiiu for any reason has one, now it's just about people
that didn't know about it or were too cheap to pick it up at launch

most people stick to a platform nomatter what it is unless the competition can wow them
into spending out more cash for a new system

i don't think the ps4 is that system, for many people investing in a new console generation is
a serious decision and they want to see the whole market first
( xbox, steam box ect. )

i think sales of all consoles will slump slightly before a new generation as people consider options
i doubt it will make a serious difference to the wiiu


on a side note, if the steam box ships with a working Linux os in it and isn't locked into steam
then it has the potential to unseat microsoft, google, sony, apple

as majour players in the it industry ( no, really )
and apple is just deflating slowly and embarrassingly in a corner.
and cause a virtual software revolution the likes of which
have not previously been seen

if you put games on a free platform for a reasonable price everyone will buy it.
then you wont need any other software vendors acting as middle men and artificially
inflating the price of the system

and even if it doesn't, you can simply install it yourself to practically anything
linux runs on so-many things it's unreal.

and contrary to popular belief, Linux is a very capable operating system and the LTS versions are offered official support, patches and upgrades the same way other major operating systems do the difference being it's crowdsourced
from it professionals and then certified rather than developed by an overpaid fat cat
the only downside is the availability of games, but with steam providing the platform for developers to create AND get paid without getting abused that will change rapidly.
it could also be the end of the sneaky and downright abusive tactics used by the games industry as a whole
when we simply abandon them to rot
i say down with gaming, long live the new gaming

we live in exciting times, let's not waste them!
erm.. well that got preachy didn't it.

 

[xPixelatedx]

Contrast this with the PS4/Xbox 720 which will have controllers

While I agree the wiiU won't do nearly as good as the wii, I should point out the wiiU does have a standard controller specifically aimed to make playing Xbox-like games easier. Also also agree that the Xbox720 will have controllers aimed more towards the hardcore crowd, but the PS4 seems flooded with gimmicks out the door, many of which are now necessary to play. Move and cross Vita compatibility seem optional, but the controller has now been deformed to accommodate a touch pad, and the motion control hasn't been removed; it's been enhanced. That is of course not mentioning the cameras that are always watching you... There is also a rumor (that is now basically confirmed) that Kinect is also shipping with the next Xbox and you cannot turn it off at all. You will need it to do several things most likely and the controller won't work at all without it. Microsoft and Sony are shoving their console's gimmicks down our throats just as hard as Nintendo is. Welcome to the new gen of gaming! lol

in addition to more launch titles.

...We already know the launch titles for the xbox and PS4? Considering that the PS4 is coming out this year, it doesn't really give developers time to finish the games they just started for this thing. Remember it wasn't that long ago that dev kits were passed out.

I'd imagine most third-party devs will develop for the standard PlayStation/Xbox/PC trifecta and ignore the Wii U due to it's different controller and console setup.

That seems unlikely, because people in the industry and game journalists are all telling a much different story. The future they see is more like this: Developing for the new consoles is now so expensive many developers actually don't have a choice but to still make games for the 360/PS3 and also see the wiiU as a cheap alternative for this gen. Remember, several developers have recently closed shop, this is a pretty serious matter to consider. It is also theorized many games will get both new and last gen versions to make even more money. That's not a first, but on the scale that's being suggested it is.

 

[dragongit]

In 1 minute of this video there is more talk about videogames then in the entire Sony conference.

Yes, in one minute they talk about videogames. Then they go on to talking about fassion games that take notes from animal crossing, home morage and remodeling in animal crossing itself, "Kersploosh" ,Luigi's mansion 2 which we've known about for ages, a new Mario RPG which feels like it's taking the same notes as Inside Bowser, a ton of eshop titles, a lame looking Pixar game, and other random crap. The only thing note wothy on the list is Monster Hunter 3... again.

Now come again, who is targeting casual audiences again? Sony had 10 titles discussed, and the only casual ones involved puzzle game by the guys who made Braid, and Media Molecule's clay scuplting toy. Even Knack involves a magic robot that beats up Goblins and tanks. More "hardcore" then Mario ever was to say the least. We had shooters, drivers, an infamous sequel, a fantasy like game with fricking fire breathing dragons, and the support of Watchdogs and Destiny. Granted the later too "might" come out for the Wii U, but it hasn't been set in stone.

Yea, Nintendo is able to talk more about games on platforms that are already out, where sony had to... Oh I dunno... announce the whole console and it's capabilities? Yes, it had to show off it's social media capabilities, but isn't the Nintendo consoles chock full of them as well? The Wii U Pad has a camera built into it for crying out loud.

Sony had to talk about media sharing and connectivity. Nintendo never shuts up about it.

 

[Yopaz]

Should we at least wait until the moment we see the consoles from the other candidates before we say one of them is doomed?

It looks bad for Nintendo considering the specs. It looked bad for the Wii considering the specs. It looked bad for the PS3 considering its slow launch and certain developers not liking it. It looked bad for the 3DS for a while.

The WiiU might be in trouble and this might be the nail in the coffin for Nintendo. It might not be. We base this entirely on the PS4 specs, so it might be too soon.

 

[xPixelatedx]

Yes, in one minute they talk about videogames. Then they go on to talking about fassion games that take notes from animal crossing, home morage and remodeling in animal crossing itself, "Kersploosh" ,Luigi's mansion 2 which we've known about for ages, a new Mario RPG which feels like it's taking the same notes as Inside Bowser, a ton of eshop titles, a lame looking Pixar game, and other random crap. The only thing note wothy on the list is Monster Hunter 3... again.

Yes, those are all video games. Not ideas on how to share games.

Sony had 10 titles discussed

But they didn't, they showed some videos of what some of those games could look like, but were those even the games? One didn't even have a final name, that's how ambiguous it was. Some were more clearer on that then others on whether or not this was a game or a tech demo that might become one (knack looked like an actual game they were playing). Most just look like demos reminiscent of the bait&switch Killzone is now infamous for. That's what I could sum the entire conference up as, tech demos layered with social drivel. A console having social features is fine, I can ignore those if I want, that's not my problem. My problem is it seemed silly to focus on it more then the games they were showing, and purposely using up their time to talk about that stuff when they could have been answering a lot of important questions. All I saw was 'Giant enemy crap' all over again. This wasn't the thing to do at their first PS4 reveal, just who did they think was watching the live feed!?

 

[BrotherRool]

Should we at least wait until the moment we see the consoles from the other candidates before we say one of them is doomed?

It looks bad for Nintendo considering the specs. It looked bad for the Wii considering the specs. It looked bad for the PS3 considering its slow launch and certain developers not liking it. It looked bad for the 3DS for a while.

The WiiU might be in trouble and this might be the nail in the coffin for Nintendo. It might not be. We base this entirely on the PS4 specs, so it might be too soon.

It would be an interesting move if the 720 had crud specs, but I can't see them doing it. It would be such a risk that maybe they'd be just handing over the console generation to Sony and the best case scenario is that MS has 2 competitors instead of one. I think we can be 90% certain that it will have better specs than the Wii U because it doesn't make sense to let Nintendo compete when presumably a fairly cheap console can be manufactured for PS4 style specs.

And they would take such a huge hit in publicity if it was unarguable that the PS4 was much superior in specs. Their fans want to be proud of this stuff.

The PS4 has PCish architecture right? And really high end PCs are already more powerful. So devs will make games that max out PS4 specs because they're serving two markets their. So if the 720 has lower specs, instead of a generation where all games are equal, games would look and run better on a PS4. MS couldn't make that work

 

[Yopaz]

Should we at least wait until the moment we see the consoles from the other candidates before we say one of them is doomed?

It looks bad for Nintendo considering the specs. It looked bad for the Wii considering the specs. It looked bad for the PS3 considering its slow launch and certain developers not liking it. It looked bad for the 3DS for a while.

The WiiU might be in trouble and this might be the nail in the coffin for Nintendo. It might not be. We base this entirely on the PS4 specs, so it might be too soon.

It would be an interesting move if the 720 had crud specs, but I can't see them doing it. It would be such a risk that maybe they'd be just handing over the console generation to Sony and the best case scenario is that MS has 2 competitors instead of one. I think we can be 90% certain that it will have better specs than the Wii U because it doesn't make sense to let Nintendo compete when presumably a fairly cheap console can be manufactured for PS4 style specs.

And they would take such a huge hit in publicity if it was unarguable that the PS4 was much superior in specs. Their fans want to be proud of this stuff.

The PS4 has PCish architecture right? And really high end PCs are already more powerful. So devs will make games that max out PS4 specs because they're serving two markets their. So if the 720 has lower specs, instead of a generation where all games are equal, games would look and run better on a PS4. MS couldn't make that work

I don't see how this is even remotely relevant to what I said, but thanks for your input anyway.

 

[dragongit]

Yes, in one minute they talk about videogames. Then they go on to talking about fassion games that take notes from animal crossing, home morage and remodeling in animal crossing itself, "Kersploosh" ,Luigi's mansion 2 which we've known about for ages, a new Mario RPG which feels like it's taking the same notes as Inside Bowser, a ton of eshop titles, a lame looking Pixar game, and other random crap. The only thing note wothy on the list is Monster Hunter 3... again.

Yes, those are all video games. Not ideas on how to share games.

Sony had 10 titles discussed

But they didn't, they showed some videos of what some of those games could look like, but were those even the games? Some were more clear on that then others (knack looked like an actual game they were playing), while most just look like demos reminiscent of the bait&switch Killzone is now infamous for. That's what I could sum the entire conference up as, tech demos layered with social drivel. A console having social features is fine, I can ignore those if I want. But it seemed silly to focus on it more then the games they were showing, and purposely using up their time to talk about that stuff when they could have been answering a lot of important questions. This wasn't the thing to do at their first PS4 reveal, just who did they think was watching the live feed!?

I'll say this again. Nintendo Wii U: Released November 18th 2012. Sony Playstation 4: Released Holliday 2013. Which ones of these has already been on the market for nearly 4 months? It's like a mother bragging about her child being in first grade while another's is in kindergarden, only because the first child happens to be a year older.

Sony had to talk about what the Playstation is capable of, the boring and the interesting. Nintendo doesn't have to anymore. Regardless of the fact that half of those game titles they boast are more towards the 3DS, then the actual Wii U, which has been on the market for... much longer. Sony hardly touched on the Vita because that wasn't the focus.

They showed off what they could, tech demos that demonstrated what it's processing power was capable of, previews that I grant, may not be represenative of the final product, and ways of connected social media. Despite popular belief, the ability to upload things and connect with others is a big issue with a lot of gamers outside of this "hardcore" crowd, and it needs to be adressed.

This was Sony's first announcement, a press conference outside of any major gaming expo. Come E3 and beyond we'll be getting hints on more titles and capabilities of the PS4. Let me think back to when the Wii U was first announced... what did they show off... oh yes, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e3qaPg_keg . they sure did make the greatest first impression didn't they? Truped Sony in every shape and form. Truely the console of Gods. Especially that Zelda game that is totally in development and wasn't meerly a tech demo.

 

[xPixelatedx]

The fact that you dismiss Luigi's Mansion and Mario&Luigi RPG as 'casual' makes me think you don't actually know what you're talking about. The fact you think Knack is more 'hardcore' than any Mario game confirms it. You do know what the term Nintendo Hard means, don't you? Nintendo isn't just hardcore, they defined hardcore back in the day. Mario is still as much a 'core' title as any COD, Battlefield or Halo.

I personally don't consider any specific game or genre casual or hardcore, because realistically any game can probably be played casually or seriously. What I do consider casual is the attitude of a publisher thinking we actually care more about bells and whistles more then games and game-play. Nintendo might have touted their gimmicky touch screen controller a lot, but they showed what it could do with gaming and how it could change gaming for people. Most local 4 player games are now 5 player. Sometimes the 5th player is a game changer/dungeon master like player, etc. Being able to share videos and make profiles and Playstation-like facebook pages is all very cool and I am happy the PS4 can do that, but it doesn't justify much space at a first reveal press conference watched mostly (I imagine) by core gamers just wanting to see what the console can do for actual gaming. Also with their poor history of trust, I don't understand how they could think all these tech demos would be very exciting. They should have had a few more obvious playable games there, if even in their alpha stages.

 

[dragongit]

SNIP

The fact that you dismiss Luigi's Mansion and Mario&Luigi RPG as 'casual' makes me think you don't actually know what you're talking about. The fact you think Knack is more 'hardcore' than any Mario game confirms it. You do know what the term Nintendo Hard means, don't you? Nintendo isn't just hardcore, they defined hardcore back in the day. Mario is still as much a 'core' title as any COD, Battlefield or Halo.

Compare the above Nintendo Direct video to this summation of the PS4 conference:

Sony's first conference announcing the PS4. Nintendo's first announcement of the Wii U. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e3qaPg_keg

riviting, wasn't it? I especially like the Zelda game that doesn't exist.

I concider Mario Casual because it's meant to be enjoyed by all ages young and old, so there is no entry level limitation of skill or ability to play any of them. They are child friendly, even when "scary" and handle violence as nothing more then a bonk on the head, maybe a pit of lava but only the bad guys ever fall in that, and half the time they are fine.

 

[Epona]

The Wii specs were pretty low compared to the 360 and PS3, yet the Wii destroyed them in sales. I could see the same happening again. Not to mention that the PS4 will probably be pretty expensive for the hardware.

I read that sales in January were only 55,000 units sold. That's sad and since Nintendo confirmed that they will not be dropping the price, things aren't looking so bright.

Most people I know have no idea what the WiiU even is (except for the ones who have seen mine/heard me talk about it). They did next to nothing to market it or even let the average person know it exists. Doesn't surprise me that they haven't sold much.

You know why the Wii sold so well? It was the motion controls that people just had to try. The WiiU has nothing unique to sell and that is why it isn't selling. Maybe Nintendo doesn't even know how to market the thing because there is nothing to market.

The screen on the controller is pretty unique, and is pretty awesome if the developers take advantage of it instead of just finding some way to say "hey, we used it!". The Microsoft/Sony consoles haven't done much more than beef up the hardware.

There is nothing unique about the bottom half of a DS/3DS or a tablet. If the developers do something unique with it then that's something but right now Nintendo can't really market it as something unique. In fact, I believe the whole point of the WiiU pad is to create a sort of console/handheld/tablet hybrid.

Well, there isn't anything else that anyone is doing that is at all unique, so I don't see why you seem to have so much hatred towards Nintendo (or it is at least coming off that way). The PS4 is just a PS3 with move built in and the specs of a three year old gaming computer.

Well, we were talking about why the Wii flew off the shelves and why the WiiU isn't. It's because the Wii had something unique that people can't get elsewhere and the WiiU does not.

It may sounds like hatred but it really isn't, it's text.

 

[Epona]

I hate this obsession with specs.

As long as a console is fun to play (and Wii U is bundles of fun) then it'll stand up in it's own right.

LOL, no.

The Dreamcast was fun to play, it failed. The Gamecube had some of the best first party games, it came in last. I'll bet the Vita is fun to play too, how do you think it will do?

There is no obsession with specs outside of what I have stated numerous times, if the gap is too big then WiiU won't get the ports just like the Wii.

 

[Epona]

3) During the first 6 weeks, WiiU software sales were "far behind" Wii and Gamecube levels.

"Totals for the November-December period were -43% lower than software sales for the Wii and -50% lower than those for the GameCube."

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/386207/wii-u-game-sales-far-behind-launch-levels-for-gamecube-and-wii/

You can pretend all you want that the WiiU is doing great and the slump in sales is excusable because of the economy/Santa not delivering/etc... but we will see how it performs in the future.

I have seen quite a few articles questioning whether the WiiU will be the next Gamecube. It's not about which console is the most powerful, it's about which console is too weak to get ports.

Ok firstly I was talking about hardware sales not software.The Wii had lower software sales per console than either the PS3 or 360 but that didn't stop it outselling both of those consoles.Nintendo reported that they'd shifted around 12 million games with those 3 million consoles so an average of 4 games per console isn't that bad considering how long it's been out and the relatively weak launch line up

Secondly I'm not pretending that the Wii U is doing great.I'm just not being as negative as a lot of people seem to be.3 million+ sales so far compares very favorably with other console launches.It took PS3 and 360 a lot longer than 6 weeks to reach those figures yet there was nowhere near the same level of negativity.I reckon given the early performances of their previous consoles that both Sony and MS would be pretty happy to have 3 million sales after the first 6 weeks.And I'd be willing to bet that if they both sell around that amount no on will be calling them failures

I guess after the Wii people expect more from Nintendo than they expected for Sony's overpriced PS3 at launch or Microsoft's Red Ring machine. I know I do.

So, in 6 weeks they sold 3 Million. That's about 2 Million in one month. Even with your highest number for January (100,000), that's pretty low. So how did they go from 2 Million sales in December to 100,000 on January? Is such a large dropoff normal in January?

 

[go-10]

With the reveal of the PS VITA and its specs. Is the 3DS in trouble?


see the thing is OP, games are what matter not specs, and don't bring the old dude or I'll bring Alfred Molina PS3 tech!
and yeah Watch Dogs looked cool, but Wii U is cheaper and also will have the game so I'll just buy it there... not to mention Zelda

now driving game, little rock dude, new FPS weren't really all that amazing looking

so it comes down to a matter of content and so far neither console has shown any games I would be interested in, so far I would say Nintendo is winning because Zelda, Metroid, Mario, etc. Nintendo first party games are amazing while Sony has... InFAMOUS and everything else is crap



so in the end I think the consoles are dead, PC gaming is where it's at and a Wii U is the console for playing Nintendo first party games

 

[Epona]

With the reveal of the PS VITA and its specs. Is the 3DS in trouble?


see the thing is OP, games are what matter not specs, and don't bring the old dude or I'll bring Alfred Molina PS3 tech!
and yeah Watch Dogs looked cool, but Wii U is cheaper and also will have the game so I'll just buy it there... not to mention Zelda

now driving game, little rock dude, new FPS weren't really all that amazing looking

so it comes down to a matter of content and so far neither console has shown any games I would be interested in, so far I would say Nintendo is winning because Zelda, Metroid, Mario, etc. Nintendo first party games are amazing while Sony has... InFAMOUS and everything else is crap



so in the end I think the consoles are dead, PC gaming is where it's at and a Wii U is the console for playing Nintendo first party games

Right now devs make most of their games for the PS3, PC and 360. Why do they do that when there are so many Wii's out there? The answer is because they can make one game and release it on 3 systems and that's better than making a cheaper game for the Wii.

Comparing the Vita to the 3DS isn't quite the same as consoles because those are the only two viable handhelds. Now if Microsoft also had a handheld and it's specs were closer to Sony's handheld (like it is with consoles) then the 3DS would be the oddball out with weak specs. Developers may develop games for two similar handhelds rather than just for Nintendo's weaker handheld.

You are right that Nintendo has the best first party games but that doesn't always sell consoles. Look at the N64 and the Gamecube. Are you saying that can't happen again?