Wolfenstein: The New Order Will Be "Geo-Locked" To Conform With German Law

[Mirrorknight]

Yeah, on your pamplet...well, I'm not seeing anything about German history between 1939 to 1945. There's just a big gap.

EVERYONE WAS ON VACATION.

Wait wait wait, what are you talking about? Germany invaded Poland in 1939, and...

WE WERE INVITED. PUNCH WAS SERVED. CHECK WITH POLAND.

 

[josh4president]

Wait so no Nazi symbols or anything allowed in German versions of games, but if you just hop across the border to Austria, the birth-place of a certain Mr. Adolf Hitler, all the Swastikas and Nazis and whatnot are just fine?

That seem weird to anyone else?

 

[hazydawn]

Well, that's just ass backwards. You hear several times about all the horrible shit they did but aren't allowed to blow them away as clearly evil villains?

I would be more understanding if the ban was used with more discretion, only banning things that paint the Nazis in a positive light. The 'Merican(that's the way it's spelled in this context) in me still wouldn't like it, but for a country that never wants anything like that to happen again, it's reasonable.

Yep, that's why I get so emotional about this. Because I can't even follow their stupid logic.
They give that treatment to movies (because of the art argument) but not video games.
Well almost. I just checked. Posters of movies are still evil.
http://www.schnittberichte.com/news/pics/inglourious_basterds_en.jpg
http://www.schnittberichte.com/news/pics/inglourious_basterds_de.jpg

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

We sort of have, the German Cultural Council has declared them as such, which you could see as an 'official' acknowledgement of games as art. Sadly, legislation does not reflect that yet and I am not holding my breath for it as long as Angie is in office.

Pfff, the next Bundeskanzler/-in (Federal Chancellor) will not touch that subject either.
Here's a not too old interview (in German) with somebody from the responsible authority:
http://www.pcgames.de/Panorama-Thema-233992/Specials/Spiele-sind-keine-Filme-Interview-mit-der-Obersten-Landesjugendbehoerde-1112254

Without stamping on toes, how is Germany with the whole world war 2 thing?

We're constantly reminded in history class, television and society about what bad people we are that we mustn't let anything like that ever happen again. Which I agree, we must never forget. But politics and some people take this mentality too far in my opinion. In their mind we still owe the Jews and Israel some kind of special treatment. Or maybe they just feel guilty for no reason.
And we obviously can't even be trusted to be reasonable adults according to the law. Our fragile minds must be protected. Because anyone who reads "Mein Kampf" or sees a swastika in a video game THAT IS ABOUT KILLING NAZIS will turn immediately into a nazi as if there's a nazi-virus hidden in it. It's history god dammit! Let people educate themselves! ...and kill virtual nazis.

Edit: Ok, maybe "constantly" is exaggerated, but every now and then it pops up
And becuase we still treat it in this fashion I wouldn't say we've moved past it.

I don't speak German, so I read that in a pretty nasty Google translation, but did they seriously say (paraphrased because the translation was rough) "Games are recognized as art, for audio-visual representation, dramatirgical elements, and character representation" and then turn around and say "but they can't have swastikas because those are only allowed in very specific instances where they serve art, and in videogames they aren't serving the art?" Does this guy even logic?

Edit: Wait a minute, they're worried about Nazis, but the representative of the USK they interviewed is /clearly/ Captain Picard of the ISS Enterprise, in the mirror universe. Just look at him:

He looks like Patrick Stewart with an evil goatee. If you're doing business with the Terran Empire, you don't have much room to complain about the Nazis.

 

[PunkRex]

According to Schnittberichte.com (popular site about censored games and movies), the UK version gets censored in the same manner.

Ain't the first time something like this is done, same was tried with Saints Row and Black Ops II. Probably because the publishers are very aware that nobody buys the censored garbage as soon as the word spread. There are several ways to circumvent the IP block, but most people will probably just pirate it.

Way to go, Bethesda...

Plenty of games in the UK have had Nazis in them, I don't see why they would censor this one in particular.

 

[hazydawn]

I don't speak German, so I read that in a pretty nasty Google translation, but did they seriously say (paraphrased because the translation was rough) "Games are recognized as art, for audio-visual representation, dramatirgical elements, and character representation" and then turn around and say "but they can't have swastikas because those are only allowed in very specific instances where they serve art, and in videogames they aren't serving the art?" Does this guy even logic?

Pretty much.
Since I posted that link... >.<
The interviewer ask if in the futrue particular cases with these symbols could pass because the had a press converence in which they said that they would honor the aspect of art in video games.

To which the intervied answers that they already aknowledged beforehand that video games could be art. That they inspect the artistic aspects in games, e.g. audio-visual design, dramatic elements or character portrayal. Then he goes on how the law is very clear about how it is illegal to dipict these symbols and that only in very strict boundaries this could be allowed - among other things if it is for an artistic purpose.
And in the end I think he tries to say that this practice will only change once the courts start to rule otherwise.

Not perfect but I reckon (a little) better than google.

There you have it. Wolfenstein's just not artsy enough.

 

[Darks63]

I always feel bad for german gamers when it comes to WW2 era games and censorship. For example in all of the HOI games they have the entire german cabinet and some of the general replaced by either black shadows or replacements with stupid names. Although at least there are workarounds for this example and the game in the story.

 

[Darxide]

This level of censorship almost seems like Germany wants to pretend that Nazis didn't exist and don't exist.

Fun fact: Holocaust denying is a crime in Germany. So you could say that it's a crime to pretend the Nazi's never existed.

It's just an over compensation. "We aren't Nazis! We promise! See! We're going to punish everyone who talks about them, or writes about them, or thinks about them! We aren't Nazis, seriously! Please, guys, we're better now!" No, Germany, we get it. Nobody actually thinks you have anything to do with Nazis anymore. Now stop with the draconian banning of a part of history. It's time to move on.

 

[Bindal]

Ain't the first time something like this is done, same was tried with Saints Row and Black Ops II.

Only Saints Row 2 but that is indeed a similar situation.
And Black Ops 2 was uncut, where as Black Ops 1 was available in two versions (a censored version without Nazi-Symbolism, no violence and so on and the international version, which still forced the replacement of the Nazi-textures but was otherwise uncut and compatible with the international version).

 

[Thaluikhain]

Eh...on the one hand, banning swastikas in games is rather foolish, especially when they aren't banned in other mediums.

OTOH, I very much have to respect the way Germany handles the Third Reich, head on, no denying it, and no letting a cult of memory spring up. In many ways Japan would do well to follow their example.

 

[Ichigo]

Germany has gotten over it. The far right is getting traction again thanks to the Euro crisis, but for the most part WWII is a thing of the past that's been analyzed, faced, and resolved in any way imaginable and feasible. It's every-bloody-one else who immediately pulls out the "Germans = Nazis" nonsense, which is why Germany has to keep that tucked away as much as possible, lest there actually be a reason for people to say such.

The problem is we actually DIDN´T get over it, otherwhise we would just say fuck the idiots who always pull the nazi jocker if they want to silence us. Especially because mostly everyone involved in WWII is dead by now. But anyway, the regionlock really sucks, i got the game gifted some days ago from my girlfriend who lives in finland, but you can´t activate it as long as you have a german ip.

 

[Ichigo]

I don't speak German, so I read that in a pretty nasty Google translation, but did they seriously say (paraphrased because the translation was rough) "Games are recognized as art, for audio-visual representation, dramatirgical elements, and character representation" and then turn around and say "but they can't have swastikas because those are only allowed in very specific instances where they serve art, and in videogames they aren't serving the art?" Does this guy even logic?

Not quite. He made clear that movies and games are completely different, because games are interactive. What that has to do with everything is not answered, probably because the reason is bullshit. The thing that get´s me is, he says that they look at the art aspect of games now, so Nazi symbolism in games is acceptable in really narrow borders, if they e.g. serve the aspenct of art [, science or education]. And in the next sentence it says, drawing Nazi symbolism in games is forbidden by law in the first place. That still doesn´t anwser the question way it´s ok in movies.

Till this whole nonsense get´s revisited by law, which it won´t for at least the next 100 years we will not get swastikas.

EDIT: There is some hope, i found a different article about a game called Generation Zero made by Reality Twist. It´s a german game that will deal with the collaps after the third reich and is supposed to be an interactive documentary. They want to get the saymbolism into the game, if that works it´s possible that other publishers will follow.

 

[Amaror]

Can't Germany move on from this nonsense already by being uptight on shit that happened 70 years ago? Yes, there are a minority of people who follow Nazism in secret but does this mean the entire gaming community has to suffer because of World War 2 atrocities involving their country?

They're being uptight with Nazism as China is being with a game offending them.

Germany is not the one being uptight here. The Publishers are the ones that are being stupid idiots without balls. Yes, the Swastika symbol is forbidden in Germany, because the display of it in public counts as propaganda for the nazi party. But that's about it. The "Nazis" -> "The Regime" Nonsense is the biggest bullshit i heard ever. You can say the word nazi here people.
Additionaly the last game that has actually been banned for nazi content was the original "Castle Wolfenstein" Game. That game is from 1981. That's right, 30 freaking years.

Even if the game would be "banned" in germany it doesn't actually mean its completely banned. It can still be sold under the counter. It's just not allowed to be advertised.

 

[Tarfeather]

Erm.. You seriously consider "game about killing nazis" to be "an expression of art"? To me that just seems tasteless and outdated, and I can absolutely agree to not making an exception for such a game. Now, if there were a game that dealt with the actual history in an interesting way, you know a sort of "Schindler's List" in game form, THEN this might be something to get worked up over if it were censored, but a brainless FPS? I don't see the issue, they might as well ban flappy bird, who the hell cares?

 

[Win32error]

I'm not from Germany, but over here in the Netherlands it's still a fairly important topic. Part of that has to do with the fact that the issue wasn't handled very well right after WW2. People have a tendency to bury things and get on with their life, which is sort of good...but some cases you need to handle it better than that. In the case of my country, a whole new pit of filth was opened when a large archive about Nazi collaborators opened. That was in 2000. Now imagine how the new Germany, both as two different states and since the fall of the soviets, as one state, had to try and handle a past like that.

And it's not just how the countries handle their own past. There's been some resistance to Germany being the de facto leaders of the EU because...well, "look what happened last time they were in charge". Of course, those sentiments aren't that strong anymore, but Germany has always been very hesitant about things like leadership and military power ever since. I'm pretty sure that no German citizen would ever put a 10 foot pole in his lawn and wave the german flag around every day, and i'm also fairly sure that it's actually illegal. Also, Germany is pretty much the only country where denying the Jewish holocaust won't just kill your carreer and reputation, but is also illegal.

So no, things haven't been sorted out entirely. I'm not saying that the German people haven't moved on, but is that all there is to it? Important to note is that WW2 is still the latest war on European soil (not counting the balkans, but that's a whole different thing), so that makes it somewhat of a reference point.


Now, does the fact that after almost 70 years peoples and countries haven't been able to forget about this mean that a game should be blocked? Well, it depends on what other things about the war are allowed.

In 2012, a movie partially produced by Germans was released. It was called "Iron Sky". What was it about? HEY LOOK, IT'S SPACENAZIS FROM THE MOOOOOOOON!

So yeah, this wolfenstein thing is pretty weird even in context.

 

[senkus]

Germany is not the one being uptight here. The Publishers are the ones that are being stupid idiots without balls. Yes, the Swastika symbol is forbidden in Germany, because the display of it in public counts as propaganda for the nazi party. But that's about it. The "Nazis" -> "The Regime" Nonsense is the biggest bullshit i heard ever. You can say the word nazi here people.

Yup. Bethesda seems to disagree, though. [https://twitter.com/thesenkus/status/332145180989865984] Well, their lawyers are something else. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/134168-John-Carmack-Accused-of-Stealing-ZeniMax-Technology-For-Oculus]

Additionaly the last game that has actually been banned for nazi content was the original "Castle Wolfenstein" Game. That game is from 1981. That's right, 30 freaking years.

That's not accurate. International versions of games with swastikas are banned all the time (list B), e.g. those of Wolfenstein 2009.

Even if the game would be "banned" in germany it doesn't actually mean its completely banned. It can still be sold under the counter. It's just not allowed to be advertised.

There are two lists of banned games. What you said only applies to list A-games. Any games containing swastikas end up on list B, which is a proper ban.

Erm.. You seriously consider "game about killing nazis" to be "an expression of art"? To me that just seems tasteless and outdated, and I can absolutely agree to not making an exception for such a game.

Last time I checked, the boundaries of art where still expanding and narrow definitions of art were the outdated thing.

I'm pretty sure that no German citizen would ever put a 10 foot pole in his lawn and wave the german flag around every day, and i'm also fairly sure that it's actually illegal.

8 years ago, that would have been pretty abnormal. During the Soccer World Cup '06 many Germans found some tame national pride, so now it's just somewhat abnormal. But the Black-Red-Gold flag was never illegal. Many 3rd Reich flags are, though.

 

[Magmarock]

Hmmmm think I'm going to have to advocate Germany's government here just a little bit.

I can understand why the German government doesn't want Nazi symbolizes in video games. The holocaust is a part of their history they are more then ashamed of and don't want to be reminded of it and at the very list don't want Nazi's associated with entertainment and fun so to speak. I'm not saying that I agree with their decision or that Wolfenstein doesn't have the right to exist or that German gamers don't have the right to play it, but I do understand their apprehension.

 

[Citizen Graves]

Hmmmm think I'm going to have to advocate Germany's government here just a little bit.

I can understand why the German government doesn't want Nazi symbolizes in video games. The holocaust is a part of their history they are more then ashamed of and don't want to be reminded of it and at the very list don't want Nazi's associated with entertainment and fun so to speak. I'm not saying that I agree with their decision or that Wolfenstein doesn't have the right to exist or that German gamers don't have the right to play it, but I do understand their apprehension.

It really has less to do with Germany's apprehension towards Nazism in entertainment (this particular issue doesn't even show up on most politicians radar) and more with game developers & publishers being incapable and / or unwilling to put in the resources to change an outdated law.

Again, this entire issue is about games not being recognized as works of ART in Germany's legislation.

2014 has been particularly frustrating because Germany has already suffered from a completely botched and butchered release of the South Park: SoT game-release.