Women aren't Babies

[Clearing the Eye]

No doubt you've all noticed the flood of sexism related threads lately (*irony*). I'm not going to say I'm sick of them or that we need to stop talking about it. But I would like to get something across to everyone:

Women are not babies.

Now, I know you all know this, but very few people seem to remember it lately. What happens when someone makes a thread and wants to talk about how many names they were called in the latest Call of Duty? "You need thick skin to be on the internet." "Toughen up." "Get over it." I agree. People on the net can suck and the best thing to do is ignore them and take their words with a grain of salt. Is it nice that they are raging assholes? No. Should they be forced to stop? Not legally, no. But the game's owners can ban them. Point being, "It's the internet. What do you expect?" It's a well known and sad fact that people treat each other like crap online. I've been called names I didn't even know existed. My nickname for an entire round of TF2 was ****** after I lightly flirted with my boyfriend whom I was playing with. I've heard people get laughed at for simply sounding different. ****** is a favourite among trolls. We all know the shitty reality of a small but very vocal aspect of the online world and we all deal with it.

But what happens when someone talks about a woman being treated poorly in an online game or just online in general? That's right -- people flip out and the feminist and sexist arguments go on and on and on. This confuses me. See, if a guy gets treated like crap, that's just whatever. Happens all the time. Internet sucks, yeah? But if a woman is called names, it needs to stop right now? We need twenty pages of people gasping at a woman being slammed online? Boy, that's funny, 'cause I don't remember anyone caring when Joe Blogs down the road gets called a ******. I don't remember the Escapist article on Jim Smith being called ******. I seem to have forgotten the news report when Andy Mack was told to shut his fucking mouth every time he proposed a strategy in his Call of Duty match.

Women aren't babies.

Women don't need people to protect them.

Women don't need white knights.

Women don't need to be treated differently.

Women do need to be treated like a human being, not a gender.

It's no more wrong to call a woman a sexist slur than it is to call a man a dickhead. So stop treating women like helpless children that need to be shielded and start treating everyone equally. Assholes suck, regardless of who they're being assholes to. Block them. Move on. It's not sexism, it's treating women like they actually have a backbone of their own -- and they do. You don't need a penis to take an insult from a jerk and any single woman is just as capable of shrugging it off as a man. Gender is irrelevant.

Thoughts? Feelings? Share!

 

[Thaluikhain]

Boy, that's funny, 'cause I don't remember anyone caring when Joe Blogs down the road gets called a ******. I don't remember the Escapist article on Jim Smith being called ******.

Er, I do. You get complaints about that all the time.

Now, feminist concerns might be over-represented because men are over-represented more than straight people or white people are, but that doesn't mean that over concerns aren't brought up.

It's no more wrong to call a woman a sexist slur than it is to call a man a dickhead.

"Dickhead" isn't a gender based slur. It does not carry a history of oppression behind it.

Gender is irrelevant.

It should be, that doesn't mean it is. Gender based slurs on the net are generally taken as reflective, not cause, of problems.

...

Now, there are plenty of individual feminists who ignore racism or homophobia on the net and elsewhere in order to concentrate on sexism, and that's a legitimate complaint. But that's not to say that sexism isn't a serious social issue.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Boy, that's funny, 'cause I don't remember anyone caring when Joe Blogs down the road gets called a ******. I don't remember the Escapist article on Jim Smith being called ******.

Er, I do. You get complaints about that all the time.

Now, feminist concerns might be over-represented because men are over-represented more than straight people or white people are, but that doesn't mean that over concerns aren't brought up.

But that's the issue; when a man complains about being called a name, they might get one or two people sympathizing, but the majority of responses they get vary between, "Yup, net sucks," and "Get over it." Which is fine. Some people suck and the rest of us need to take their words with a grain of salt. When a woman is called a name? Woah boy, it's the worst thing ever. The absolute torrent of crap that comes out is amazing. We've got a 20 page thread going now because some people hurt a woman's feelings. It's like people are trained to want to appear hyper vigilant when the word sexism comes up. "A man got called a name? Pfft. And? What a pussy." "A woman got called a name? Sexist assholes!"

Why do we feel the need to jump to the rescue of a woman when some random trolls give them a hard time? Block them, ignore them, report them, move on. I don't care what a no one on the internet calls me anymore than I do about a woman receiving the same. Women are fine. They don't need people jumping up and down when someone calls them a bad name online and they don't need people trying to protect them. You don't need a penis to toughen up and women can get over it just as well as any man can.

Incidentally, before starting this thread, out of curiosity I asked every woman on my friends list if she was treated poorly online. Not a single person said yes. A few said they were treated better because they were female. My single case is not even close to a sound enough finding to be used as evidence to any great degree, but it does reaffirm my belief that the way women are treated online is blown massively out of proportion. We all get treated like crap some times. I don't want a thread about poor little me when a few idiots gang up on me in a TF2 match.

Please do note, this isn't about actual sexism on a whole and the treatment of women in the outside world. I'm not here saying sexism doesn't exist, or that women need to stop complaining. I'm only talking about the issue of online behaviour towards both men and women and how we as a community respond to it.

 

[Screamarie]

Okay I'm really tired after being awake for nearly twenty-four hours so I'm probably going to regret this, but...

Just because people getting treated badly on the internet or in a multiplayer setting or some such is considered usual, doesn't mean we should just accept it.

Whether the target is a man, a woman, someone who is straight, gay, bi, black, green or any color in between, means that EVERYONE should turn to the asshole and go "That's not right. Get your shit together or get out."

So the feminists are particularly sensitive to the issue of harrasment against women, doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't also talking about ALL harrasment. (Yes, some are only exclusively talking about women, but those are usually the nuts that take things to far and talk about the "Patriarchy" like it's a super villian in a movie.)

If someone wishes to rally against harrassment online and in game settings against women, GREAT!

If someone wishes to rally against harrasment online and in game settings against men, GREAT!

If someone wishes to rally against harrassment online and in game settings against people of color, GREAT!

If someone wishes to rally against harrassment online and in game settings against people of the LGBT community, GREAT!

And the more people who rally, means the bigger and bigger forces assholes have to go against whenever they're pissed they lost against someone.

You say that the owners of the game can ban the person, but that doesn't mean that the community should just "let the moderators handle it." It's the job of the community to work with the moderators and with each other to make sure everyone has an enjoyable gaming experience.

Now I'm off to bed.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Why do we feel the need to jump to the rescue of a woman when some random trolls give them a hard time? Block them, ignore them, report them, move on. I don't care what a no one on the internet calls me anymore than I do about a woman receiving the same. Women are fine. They don't need people jumping up and down when someone calls them a bad name online and they don't need people trying to protect them. You don't need a penis to toughen up and women can get over it just as well as any man can.

Because the harassment of women is much more common, more vicious, and part of a society with deeply rooted gender problems.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Its not that guys don't get insulted.

Its just girls get insulted more frequently, and harsher, at least from the outside observer. Our subculture is downright horrible to the fairer sex, it makes me embarrassed to identify as one tbh.

Moreso on xbl than the other platforms.

That whole idea, that women are insulted more frequently, is all conjecture as far as I'm concerned. I've never seen any proof that this is the case. There seems to be this unwritten and accepted rule that women cop it online all the time, but no one ever actually shows evidence. I can give you countless examples of men treating each other like shit, but I can only think of one example of a female friend of mine being called a name--she was called a tranny. Someone posts a thread about one woman being trolled bt assholes and suddenly there's an uproar and "It happens all the time!"

I can't state it as a fact, but I remember hearing in the news that the most common sex to physically attack a woman is another female. I can't remember the specifics and I think it was talking about the 18-30 bracket or something. I'll Google some stuff now.

 

[5ilver]

Just don't tell people you're a woman? I mean, this is the internet, it's not like your sex matters in a video-game or a forum.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Why do we feel the need to jump to the rescue of a woman when some random trolls give them a hard time? Block them, ignore them, report them, move on. I don't care what a no one on the internet calls me anymore than I do about a woman receiving the same. Women are fine. They don't need people jumping up and down when someone calls them a bad name online and they don't need people trying to protect them. You don't need a penis to toughen up and women can get over it just as well as any man can.

Because the harassment of women is much more common, more vicious, and part of a society with deeply rooted gender problems.

Can you prove that women are harassed by men more than men to other men? Or is it just your opinion based on conjecture?

 

[Thaluikhain]

Because the harassment of women is much more common, more vicious, and part of a society with deeply rooted gender problems.

Can you prove that women are harassed by men more than men to other men? Or is it just your opinion based on conjecture?[/quote]

I can't show any hard evidence comparing the two, no, but it seems to be that way to me.

...

On a related note:
http://fatuglyorslutty.com/

 

[Zhukov]

Good to know.

Because... ew.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

I can't show any hard evidence comparing the two, no, but it seems to be that way to me.

...

On a related note:
http://fatuglyorslutty.com/

You can't actually prove that women are picked on by men more often than men insult one another, but you feel comfortable stating: "Because the harassment of women is much more common, more vicious, and part of a society with deeply rooted gender problems."

So you're spreading information you can't back up and are riding a stereotype along the sexism tracks?

See what I mean. Again and again, a select handful of people tell us how hard women have it in online gaming, all without actually proving it. Throw out an example of a woman being trolled by some assholes and suddenly it's a common thing? Cool. So all I need to do is show one example of a woman treating a man poorly and BAM, it's a fact that women are catty bitches to men online.

 

[Thaluikhain]

You can't actually prove that women are picked on by men more often than men insult one another, but you feel comfortable stating: "Because the harassment of women is much more common, more vicious, and part of a society with deeply rooted gender problems."

So you're spreading information you can't back up and are riding a stereotype along the sexism tracks?

No, I am speaking based on my own experiences.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

I'm not saying it's good or acceptable that assholes act like hooting idiots online. It's a minority, but it's a negative minority and we'd all be better of without them. I'm saying we need to start treating it less as a sexism issue, and more as a people issue. It's not okay when someone tells a woman to suck him off. But it's no worse than someone telling a guy he's a ****** and needs to shut the hell up.

I'm just so sick of women being treated differently than men in the online world. Both sides can be as bad as each other. Yeah, being a sexist wanker to a guy or girl is shitty and you need to stop. But being a sexist wanker to a woman isn't some tremendous crime that requires outrage--no more than it is to a man.

None of us need special attention in games and none of us needs to be stood up for any more than anyone else. If we keep treating women like women and men like men, we create the divide that the actual assholes want there to be. Don't stand up and get pissed off when a woman is called a ****. Don't rage when a man is called a dickhead. Mute the idiot, report them and ignore them. Don't feed trolls and don't react to their behaviour. They're only a problem if we let them be a problem.

I've never met a woman who needed my help and I've never met a woman incapable of defending herself from the big, bad internet troll. Anyone that can push a watermelon out of their genitals is tough enough not to be reduced to tears by douchebag number for thousand and seventy two in Call of Duty.

Fight for people, not for women.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

You can't actually prove that women are picked on by men more often than men insult one another, but you feel comfortable stating: "Because the harassment of women is much more common, more vicious, and part of a society with deeply rooted gender problems."

So you're spreading information you can't back up and are riding a stereotype along the sexism tracks?

No, I am speaking based on my own experiences.

Being called names sucks. I was bullied a lot, so I get it. The first few times you're called a name, it's no big deal. By the tenth it starts to wear on you and by the hundredth you've had enough. But this happens to everyone. I'm not saying women don't face sexism in the world (in some parts of the world, sexism is the standard). But sometimes it feels less about stopping assholes, and more about women being special.

I've got no doubt in my mind that you're in this debate because in your experience, you or a friend or someone you know has been treated poorly and in a sexist fashion. I very much doubt your part of some gyno conspiracy to take over the world and crush men. But the way some people talk about it, you'd think gender mattered more to them than the assholes they fight.

I want to be on the side fighting for everyone. I want everyone to be treated like a person, not a sex, gender, race, creed or social economic figure. I want a community and a world where no one even notices these things, where sex is as relevant to eye colour. You do too, I bet. But to me it often seems like more effort goes into talking about how bad women have it and how much help they need, than how to make everyone equal.

Am I making any sense?

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

Actually I have found in relationships a girl tends to relax and moan in a happy "awwwww" sort of way when I play the protector/white night/coddler.

You really should group the whole female sex into one distinct personality. It makes you come off as arrogant as the people who irritated you enough to make this thread in the first place. We all differ in what we want, what we need, how we feel. Some guys will cry if you call them a "Pussy dick licker." while some will just retort something back like "Thats not what your mom told me last night." We are all different and should be treated as such.

Yes socially women tend to be pampered. It comes back from the days of chivalry, but I have noticed that is slowly going away as women start to bring a more dominating presence in the world. Still, that is socially, not individually.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Actually I have found in relationships a girl tends to relax and moan in a happy "awwwww" sort of way when I play the protector/white night/coddler.

You really should group the whole female sex into one distinct personality. It makes you come off as arrogant as the people who irritated you enough to make this thread in the first place. We all differ in what we want, what we need, how we feel. Some guys will cry if you call them a "Pussy dick licker." while some will just retort something back like "Thats not what your mom told me last night." We are all different and should be treated as such.

Yes socially women tend to be pampered. It comes back from the days of chivalry, but I have noticed that is slowly going away as women start to bring a more dominating presence in the world. Still, that is socially, not individually.

I mean no woman needs a man to protect her from an internet troll, where she's not so weak and fragile that it takes a penis to save her. I dislike the warped good intentions some people have, where wanting women to be equal has become "Women need my help." They pass right on by when some idiot is giving a hard time to another guy, but take special issue when it's a woman.

Being nice to people is great. Swooping in to be nice to a girl, just because she's a woman, is bad. It's basically saying "Hey, that guy is fine, but that woman can't take it! She's too weak!" Help her because she's a person, just like you'd help a guy. She doesn't need a man any more than a guy does.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Spoiler: snip

Being called names sucks. I was bullied a lot, so I get it. The first few times you're called a name, it's no big deal. By the tenth it starts to wear on you and by the hundredth you've had enough. But this happens to everyone. I'm not saying women don't face sexism in the world (in some parts of the world, sexism is the standard). But sometimes it feels less about stopping assholes, and more about women being special.

I've got no doubt in my mind that you're in this debate because in your experience, you or a friend or someone you know has been treated poorly and in a sexist fashion. I very much doubt your part of some gyno conspiracy to take over the world and crush men. But the way some people talk about it, you'd think gender mattered more to them than the assholes they fight.

I want to be on the side fighting for everyone. I want everyone to be treated like a person, not a sex, gender, race, creed or social economic figure. I want a community and a world where no one even notices these things, where sex is as relevant to eye colour. You do too, I bet. But to me it often seems like more effort goes into talking about how bad women have it and how much help they need, than how to make everyone equal.

Am I making any sense?

If I'm reading you correctly, you seem to have fallen into one of the pitfalls common to people trying to work towards equality (I won't bore you with a list of ones I've fallen into, and I'd have to update it every so often anyway). It doesn't help that this sort of argument is used all the time by people merely going through the motions, or who want to derail the issue.

I understand you want eqaulity, but that can't apply to the move towards equality itself. Making things equal means disproportionate things have to be done for different groups who are in disproportional circumstances to begin with.

You say you are unhappy with people talking about how much worse women have rather than trying to make everyone equal. But acknowledging inequality is the first step towards reaching equality. You don't solve the problem by refusing to address it.

...

Or, to put it another way, if you are saying we shouldn't try to stop harassment of women, then I am never going to support you. That's a viewpoint that only benefits bullies.

But if you are to say that as well as stopping harassment of women, we should also work towards stopping harassment of everyone else, that's something I can definitely support.

 

[Rastien]

http://fatuglyorslutty.com/

Just read through this...

It really is depressing stuff, and i feel ashamed to be in the same bracket of "gamers" as those cunts.

Whilst i feel women should be suck it up and defend themselves that shit is harsh... i'm aware its probably the worst of the worst but still.

Sigh :/ i know its the internet and people can say and do what they want... which is why im going to make a device required for all online games.

Before playing an online game you must wire your balls into an electrical shock device, should your level of dickheadedness reach a high enough level you get a sharp painful shock to your nuts... or tits for our female gamers.