Women in Games Conference Canceled Due to Lack of Delegates

[Cryo84R]

Lots of white male hate from a couple posters. But luckily for them it's not racist or sexist to judge white males based on color or gender.

Also: Women on the Internet?! Lol no wai.

 

[UnSub]

It only took until page 3 for someone to check that the Women in Games Conference isn't for women only. A number of speakers are men and it is open to any delegates who wanted to attend. Given the cancellation, obviously they didn't get close to that break-even number of delegates.

Also, given all the talk of segregation, it is worth noting that the topic of the 2010 WiG Conference was going to be "Diversity".

Contrary to lead article, I don't think the Conference line-up looks strong at all (http://www.womeningames.com/). Lots of 'TBC' line the program and stuff like that should have been nailed down by now. You aren't going to attract delegates with speakers to talk about topics that haven't been confirmed only a month from the start of a conference.

 

[Furrama]

Lots of white male hate from a couple posters. But luckily for them it's not racist or sexist to judge white males based on color or gender.

Also: Women on the Internet?! Lol no wai.

Wai!

And we have delicious chocolate pudding. Mmmmmm, pudding

You boys and ...your Blu-Ray Discs and your pierced scrotums and your bull frogs and your telekinesis and your Marvel Comics and your YouTube.com and your nuclear physics and your ingrowing toenails and your Gears of War and your Quentin Tarantino and your power steering and your elevators and your illegitimate offspring and your - hey, why did it fade to black? Am I dead?

YUGI: No, Gramps, it's just the end of the movie.
GRANDPA: Oh, fiddlesticks!

 

[Chipperz]

Seriously, women need to stop pulling shit like this. What are they trying to accomplish by holding conferences like these?
You never see guys starting male video game conferences.

You mean pretty much every other vg conference there is?

Nope, no dice. All other VG Conferences are open to both genders. This is excluding male designers and making a statement that female designers are somehow different to male ones and should therefore be treated differently.

Not exactly the best way of encouraging equality. I'm glad it tanked and hope it stays dead so we can focus on having the successful mixed gender conferences instead.

For what it's worth, I'm also disgusted that my country has a "Resource Center for Women in Science, Engineering and Technology", because like it or not, that is not equality in action.

Conferences like this or other meetings involving women on the development end or the game playing end NEED to exist at this point because:

1. The obvious. Women don't stand toe to toe with men in the gaming community at the moment and it's nice to find support and motivation among others of your own kind so that you can continue what you're doing and feel good about it. That's why conferences exist in the first place, to be around other people like you.

And 2. Thar is money to be made! Women are the fastest growing consumers in the video game market today and if women in the business aren't encouraged or included a lot of money stands to be lost by companies. Conferences like this make sense because when you gather a group of people together it's easier to discover what makes them tick, how they work, and it makes it easier to keep someone employed when they don't feel alone. Woman have a huge turnover rate in the business, and it helps to keep your women if they are to provide insight on the growing market.

Women and men AREN'T equal. I'm a woman, and in many regards I'm different from a guy in what I like or want to buy. If game companies are going to take advantage of the growing market they need to understand and employ women. Conferences like this help facilitate good will and confidence among women in the industry. It's hard to work in a boy's club when you feel alone.

And it's still disgusting that women feel they should be given special treatment. There is always the simple fact that many women just don't want to be games designers. Hell, maybe some of the ones that do just aren't very good at it?

Just having a conference about women in gaming is setting women apart from men, which is sad because when it comes down to it, most gamers (in the UK at least) care more about whether someone is a gamer then whether they are a woman. It's not about it being a "boys club", it's just that it's an industry where there are more men, and taking the men aside to tell them to treat the girls like they're super extra special because they're delicate and might have their feelings hurt is the quickest and easiest route to making guys not give a shit, because you have just differentiated between two people who just want to beat the shit out of each other on Street Fighter II and hurl verbal abuse at the third one that likes [whatever game is being hated at the moment. In our group, it's Final Fantasy XIII and I'm the guy taking the abuse].

 

[Furrama]

Seriously, women need to stop pulling shit like this. What are they trying to accomplish by holding conferences like these?
You never see guys starting male video game conferences.

You mean pretty much every other vg conference there is?

Nope, no dice. All other VG Conferences are open to both genders. This is excluding male designers and making a statement that female designers are somehow different to male ones and should therefore be treated differently.

Not exactly the best way of encouraging equality. I'm glad it tanked and hope it stays dead so we can focus on having the successful mixed gender conferences instead.

For what it's worth, I'm also disgusted that my country has a "Resource Center for Women in Science, Engineering and Technology", because like it or not, that is not equality in action.

Conferences like this or other meetings involving women on the development end or the game playing end NEED to exist at this point because:

1. The obvious. Women don't stand toe to toe with men in the gaming community at the moment and it's nice to find support and motivation among others of your own kind so that you can continue what you're doing and feel good about it. That's why conferences exist in the first place, to be around other people like you.

And 2. Thar is money to be made! Women are the fastest growing consumers in the video game market today and if women in the business aren't encouraged or included a lot of money stands to be lost by companies. Conferences like this make sense because when you gather a group of people together it's easier to discover what makes them tick, how they work, and it makes it easier to keep someone employed when they don't feel alone. Woman have a huge turnover rate in the business, and it helps to keep your women if they are to provide insight on the growing market.

Women and men AREN'T equal. I'm a woman, and in many regards I'm different from a guy in what I like or want to buy. If game companies are going to take advantage of the growing market they need to understand and employ women. Conferences like this help facilitate good will and confidence among women in the industry. It's hard to work in a boy's club when you feel alone.

And it's still disgusting that women feel they should be given special treatment. There is always the simple fact that many women just don't want to be games designers. Hell, maybe some of the ones that do just aren't very good at it?

Just having a conference about women in gaming is setting women apart from men, which is sad because when it comes down to it, most gamers (in the UK at least) care more about whether someone is a gamer then whether they are a woman. It's not about it being a "boys club", it's just that it's an industry where there are more men, and taking the men aside to tell them to treat the girls like they're super extra special because they're delicate and might have their feelings hurt is the quickest and easiest route to making guys not give a shit, because you have just differentiated between two people who just want to beat the shit out of each other on Street Fighter II and hurl verbal abuse at the third one that likes [whatever game is being hated at the moment. In our group, it's Final Fantasy XIII and I'm the guy taking the abuse].

I don't think you read what I wrote. Being different does not mean being special, and men and women are different. Some woman want to be treated special true, but the more level headed of us don't. I personally want to be treated like a person, as does everyone, but I also understand that I and the bulk of woman think and buy differently than guys, and it would be nice if we were catered to more specifically. Most games today are made with young men (age 13-35) in mind, and the selection reflects that. I can play most of them sure, but I feel as though half of what I play wasn't made for someone like me.

 

[Furrama]

I KNEW IT!

I've been saying it all along, and I was right! This proves it! Girls who are in anyway involved in gaming are A MYTH! They do not exist! If they did, they would show up for the convention made specifically for them, wouldn't they?

Lol, you're the reason women need conferences. They sit in rooms and talk about you, with the Mr. Burns fingers twiddling darkly.

"Eeeeexcellent", they say,their angry scowls turning slightly into glee. " Soon, yes, soon, we will destroy the men and make Goddess of Love III for the Playstation 3!"

 

[Sonofadiddly]

Special conferences for women wouldn't be necessary if sexism didn't exist. But it still does. As made obvious by the comments on this article, it's still rampant. And anyone who thinks differently is probably a white male with little education on the subject. And those particular people can take their opinions and perform some miscellaneous sex act with them.

So the opinions of white males don't matter? A sexist AND racist statement. That's amazingly bigoted, I hope you're proud.

I stand by my sexist/racist remark. I'm sorry, but I really do believe that as a white person, my opinions on racial issues hold very little weight, as I have not experienced much discrimination based on my race. And since white males experience the least discrimination, and you really, really, do, I don't take their opinions on discrimination seriously. And I get mad when they say that women are pulling shit by trying to have a conference.

Wow, you have clearly never worked in an office. It's a known fact that in an office, only men can be sexist and when a woman tells you to your face that you're useless because you're a man, they're just being playful and/or standing up for equality in the workplace. These will be the same people who can't do heavy lifting "because they're girls".

I'd just like to contrast that with the course I'm currently on. It's a Games Design course and in England, so it may not have much to do with games design in the UK, but roll with it. We just under a quater of the course are women, but that doesn't matter, because all we give a shit about is playing and making games. If we got split due to gender differences, that highlights a problem that simply isn't there and takes away from the very real (and far more pressing) issue that the members of the course who play [insert game here] are twats.

If all games designers see are games designers, then highlighting that some games designers are women just does that - makes problems where there are none and takes away from making games. More importantly, do you want games designers that don't give a shit about designing games, just so there are more female games designers, or would you rather a load of male designers who give a shit get fired?

Man, you really do have a low opinion of women, don't you? I don't think there's anything wrong with having a wee little conference to address an issue like the gender gap in the games industry. These issues exist and ignoring them is not going to make them go away. So they have a conference. Let them have it! Why are so many people up in arms about this? Having it is not going to make the world more sexist.

Anyway, my outrage has fizzled out. But sorry if you've experienced a tiny little bit of discrimination that doesn't really affect you or keep you from getting a job or anything. Doesn't mean all women are bad.

 

[Chipperz]

*snip*

I don't think you read what I wrote. Being different does not mean being special, and men and women are different. Some woman want to be treated special true, but the more level headed of us don't. I personally want to be treated like a person, as does everyone, but I also understand that I and the bulk of woman think and buy differently than guys, and it would be nice if we were catered to more specifically. Most games today are made with young men (age 13-35) in mind, and the selection reflects that. I can play most of them sure, but I feel as though half of what I play wasn't made for someone like me.

OK, design a game for this exciting new growing market. It will come out as one of two things;

1 - Bright pink and covered in unicorns and rainbows. With the notable exception of Robot Unicorn Attack (which a far higher percentage of straight guys I know played and loved than any other demographic), these games are about as stupid and sexist as you can get. Do you really want these marketed to you? Also, this category includes most of the crap put on the Wii.

2 - Better storylines and character design that includes reasons for fighting the population of a small country. If you believe this is something that only female gamers want, you are solely mistaken. Games require conflict and/or challenge, which means you're never going to see a romantic comedy game (yay for stereotyping!), but as the media develops, games will grow up, and this is something that most gamers past the age of 12 want, regardless of gender.

Unless there's a secret third option that only women want, but I can't think of anything I haven't mentioned in 2.

Man, you really do have a low opinion of women, don't you? I don't think there's anything wrong with having a wee little conference to address an issue like the gender gap in the games industry. These issues exist and ignoring them is not going to make them go away. So they have a conference. Let them have it! Why are so many people up in arms about this? Having it is not going to make the world more sexist.

Anyway, my outrage has fizzled out. But sorry if you've experienced a tiny little bit of discrimination that doesn't really affect you or keep you from getting a job or anything. Doesn't mean all women are bad.

Wait wait wait... I have a low opinion of women because I think everyone should be treated the same? These "issues" aren't a problem, in fact, I think the games industry is the only place I haven't heard of a gender discrimination suit, which is very odd considering I've seen the reactions of some guy gamers to the revalation someone is a "gurrl gamer".

If less women want to design games, then let them do whatever they want!

 

[Lexodus]

'Women in Games' is Facebook group at best. Why not just be a fucking GAMER, rather than attempting to divide the two halves of the species even further?

Lack of delegates has brought this year's Women in Games conference to its knees.

oh, you.... i certainly lol'd on that one

I did too. We're doomed, aren't we?

Wanna play Left 4 Dead with me when we get to hell? I laughed too, and I'm a girl x3

Fuck yes. I call dibs on Mr Sweepy

 

[Furrama]

*snip*

I don't think you read what I wrote. Being different does not mean being special, and men and women are different. Some woman want to be treated special true, but the more level headed of us don't. I personally want to be treated like a person, as does everyone, but I also understand that I and the bulk of woman think and buy differently than guys, and it would be nice if we were catered to more specifically. Most games today are made with young men (age 13-35) in mind, and the selection reflects that. I can play most of them sure, but I feel as though half of what I play wasn't made for someone like me.

OK, design a game for this exciting new growing market. It will come out as one of two things;

1 - Bright pink and covered in unicorns and rainbows. With the notable exception of Robot Unicorn Attack (which a far higher percentage of straight guys I know played and loved than any other demographic), these games are about as stupid and sexist as you can get. Do you really want these marketed to you? Also, this category includes most of the crap put on the Wii.

2 - Better storylines and character design that includes reasons for fighting the population of a small country. If you believe this is something that only female gamers want, you are solely mistaken. Games require conflict and/or challenge, which means you're never going to see a romantic comedy game (yay for stereotyping!), but as the media develops, games will grow up, and this is something that most gamers past the age of 12 want, regardless of gender.

Unless there's a secret third option that only women want, but I can't think of anything I haven't mentioned in 2.

Yes, most games right now pointed at women are sexist: unicorns and bunnies, soap opera games, etc. Again, that's what the conference is for. Women writing for woman, companies keeping them, and all that jazz.

Demographics do exist. Ask anyone in advertising, and if you ignore this fact you are going to loose money. Money can't discriminate- Give woman what they want, not what you think they want. If you want to do that you're going to actually have to employ and talk to women, and recognize that they ARE in fact women and different from men in many, (but not all), regards.

My favorite games (as a girl):
Okami- I got to play a goddess in the form of a wolf (I like to pretend that I'm something else when I play games- I don't need to play a woman to identify with what I'm playing as, so this was very cool) and the story and art were well thought out and immersive.

FFX- The story and characters were brilliant, the gameplay and sphere grid system are some of the best game mechanics I've seen to date. As a woman I can still kill things and quest, and I was given a reason to drive me for everything, other than YOU HAVE A SWORD KILL EEET ALL!

Rayman 2- Dude, those robot pirates had to die.

DDR- I like to play with other people, and I like repetition and music. It's like I'm almost learning a skill, (almost). I don't like GH or Rock Band at all though, and I don't need to pretend I'm a good dancer/rock god to enjoy the experience.

Pokemon Silver- Well, I caught em all without cheating, (well, I never cheated, some people I traded with did for like Celebi and Mew and such). I'm still rather proud of this for some reason. I don't need to be female to like this game though

I don't go for blood, I don't go for shooters, (does Portal count? naw...) and MMO's are way too time consuming. I like strategy and RPG's and Action Adventure. I like good writing and good art. And I love Robot Unicorn for the sheer awesome gayness of it all. While there are good games out there I haven't really seen anything new in any of the genre's I like in a wicked long time. Just remakes. And that's what I'm stuck with.

We don't need ponies or Popcap, just something worth our time and imagination. And the Wii Fit stuff is for soccer moms, and I don't want to be one of those T.T I'm waiting for a game where I can play a character in Redwall or Discworld, RPG/Action Adventure style.

 

[Furrama]

I KNEW IT!

I've been saying it all along, and I was right! This proves it! Girls who are in anyway involved in gaming are A MYTH! They do not exist! If they did, they would show up for the convention made specifically for them, wouldn't they?

Lol, you're the reason women need conferences. They sit in rooms and talk about you, with the Mr. Burns fingers twiddling darkly.

"Eeeeexcellent", they say,their angry scowls turning slightly into glee. " Soon, yes, soon, we will destroy the men and make Goddess of Love III for the Playstation 3!"

...

Does it feature half-naked Greek goddesses? Where can I get a copy of 1 and 2? I SHALL MOD IT TO FEATURE SEX SCENES!!!

It might, but what do you care? You'll be dead in a... DON'T LOOK BEHIND YOU!!!

 

[Lexodus]

snip

Congratulations!
So basically you want exactly what just as many men want... GOOD GAMES (in our opinion). Dun dun dun! We can be stereotyped too, you know. As it has been said, sexism, racism etc., is a two way street. According to stereotypes, I'm supposed to be a fat, ill-educated, alcoholic, chain-smoking, football-loving, chain-masturbating, racist, women-hating serial rapist (anyone else here offended by those adverts?), with a preference for first-person shooters.

Guess what?


I'M NOT.

 

[SinEstelle]

Special conferences for women wouldn't be necessary if sexism didn't exist. But it still does. As made obvious by the comments on this article, it's still rampant. And anyone who thinks differently is probably a white male with little education on the subject. And those particular people can take their opinions and perform some miscellaneous sex act with them.

So the opinions of white males don't matter? A sexist AND racist statement. That's amazingly bigoted, I hope you're proud.

I stand by my sexist/racist remark. I'm sorry, but I really do believe that as a white person, my opinions on racial issues hold very little weight, as I have not experienced much discrimination based on my race. And since white males experience the least discrimination, and you really, really, do, I don't take their opinions on discrimination seriously. And I get mad when they say that women are pulling shit by trying to have a conference.

Did you even think about what you wrote? It's almost like you believe that singling women out and making special events for them is the best way to solve the issue of sexism.

Were there such a huge issue of women being downtrodden in the industry, would it not be better to hold a conference which is open to both genders. That way it would be possible to promote women and the fact that we're just as able TO the men who are being sexist?

But personally, I haven't come across any issues to date that merit anything like that. The only issue with women in the industry is that not many want to be involved in it, there's nothing stopping them at all.

I disagree with the idea that women don't have anything stopping them from getting into the industry. I have seen adds for jobs in the video gaming industry that specifically say that the offer is for males only. That is partly where my rage is coming from. I'm sure it doesn't always happen, but sometimes it does. Maybe it's unnecessary for women to have a conference to address such an issue that excludes males, but if they want to, I don't want to hear anyone saying that they need to stop pulling that kind of shit. Because it's not shit. It's legitimate.

I'm sorry if I offended some male members of this community with my miscellaneous sex act joke. Maybe I should have mentioned that I say things like that to everyone. I just think that some of the comments about this piece of news were seriously sexist, and some people need to keep their fingers off the damn keyboard.

Well, I haven't seen any ads for jobs that say it's for guys only... and I've looked at a lot of ads recently. In fact, the only think sexist I've come across is a placement scheme specifically for gettings girls into the industry http://www.station.sony.com/girl/

Despite your opinion on the issue, I still think if things are going to ever be even, we need to start by acting in the way we want to end up. As equals. This means no guys only ads (though I still find the existance of these to be dubious), no women only placement schemes, and no women only conferences. We can hardly expect to earn respect by having special events and schemes to make things easier for us, it just doesn't work that way.

 

[Furrama]

snip

Congratulations!
So basically you want exactly what just as many men want... GOOD GAMES (in our opinion). Dun dun dun! We can be stereotyped too, you know. As it has been said, sexism, racism etc., is a two way street. According to stereotypes, I'm supposed to be a fat, ill-educated, alcoholic, chain-smoking, football-loving, chain-masturbating, racist, women-hating serial rapist (anyone else here offended by those adverts?), with a preference for first-person shooters.

Guess what?


I'M NOT.

I never said you were.

Look, I don't know what you guys are arguing with me about. It's as though you've ignored what I've said and think I have another agenda, or I'm a raging feminist or something, but it's clear that you're not talking to ME. I have said nothing about white guys or general stereotypes anything like that. I'm talking about games, women in the game field and the benefits, and what I as a girl gamer am looking for personally- I don't speak for anyone by myself there, but I assume that other girls and I overlap on some areas, as well on other points I've seen in research.

I think guys and girls both want the same thing- good games. But:

1. Girls and guys are similar
2. Girls and guys are different
3. Girls and guys shop for similar things
4. Girls and guys shop for different things

All of these points are true, but it's point 2 and 4 I'm talking about, and their implications. If you want to debate about something address what I've said, not 'stereotype' me and think my thoughts for me. I'm sorry you feel jaded or attacked, but you shouldn't. Your personal backgrounds are meaningless when I'm talking about general topics. White, black, woman, man, gay, straight, young, old, you're all the same to me in this venue.

 

[Criquefreak]

Note for morons: a "women in gaming" conference would not only be open to women. Women in gaming would be the theme of the conference. If you can't figure that out, please do not expect me to take your opinion seriously.

And one other thing...

Just as segregating as black history month.

You should look up the word "segregation" immediately. It does not mean what you think it means. If you're allowed in the room, it isn't segregation. Not knowing really basic stuff about discrimination does not help your argument that your opinion on discrimination is as valuable as anyone else's. (And I'm middle-class and white.)

The theme lends itself to the discouragement of a male audience. For those of you who've never seen a woman become rude (or even hostile) to men at the mention of discrimination or seen men roll their eyes when a woman mentions the discrimination they face in society, I envy the idealistic world you live in. Most men do not tend to take the topic of women's issues seriously (something well indicated by many posts here). As such, this conference is not the most inviting to an open audience and would likely be better received as an included topic in a general games conference than standing on its own. Nonetheless, it seems like a noble effort to encourage female participation as consumers and developers in the games industry.

segregation - a social system that provides separate facilities for minority groups
Okay, one definition that supports the one you used.

segregated - separated or isolated from others or a main group
segregate - To separate, used especially of social policies that directly or indirectly keep races or ethnic groups apart; Separate; select; Separated from others of the same kind

These and many other definitions allow a much more open interpretation than the specific one you're using. Plus, being English, a language with a trend of common usage overwriting original meaning...

There's a number of notable instances in the segregation of persons of African ethnicity in the USA where behavioral and even legal discrimination was occuring even though they were allowed in the same rooms, facilities, mass transportation, etc.

 

[DoctorDisaster]

The theme lends itself to the discouragement of a male audience. For those of you who've never seen a woman become rude (or even hostile) to men at the mention of discrimination or seen men roll their eyes when a woman mentions the discrimination they face in society, I envy the idealistic world you live in. Most men do not tend to take the topic of women's issues seriously (something well indicated by many posts here). As such, this conference is not the most inviting to an open audience and would likely be better received as an included topic in a general games conference than standing on its own. Nonetheless, it seems like a noble effort to encourage female participation as consumers and developers in the games industry.

The theme doesn't discourage a male audience, it discourages a sexist audience. If someone "roll their eyes when a woman mentions ... discrimination" without even bothering to hear them out, that person is a sexist, and frankly doesn't have anything valuable to add to the discussion.

Which is why a conference with this theme would be different from a topic section at a general conference. The participants would be mostly (if not entirely) interested in inclusion, which is more than you can say for the general population of the games industry.

And that's not to say there won't be differences of opinion. Anyone who gets rude or hostile with me because of real or imagined discrimination they've seen from others is going to be in for a spirited debate.

segregation - a social system that provides separate facilities for minority groups
Okay, one definition that supports the one you used.

segregated - separated or isolated from others or a main group
segregate - To separate, used especially of social policies that directly or indirectly keep races or ethnic groups apart; Separate; select; Separated from others of the same kind

...

There's a number of notable instances in the segregation of persons of African ethnicity in the USA where behavioral and even legal discrimination was occuring even though they were allowed in the same rooms, facilities, mass transportation, etc.

Every single one of these definitions is predicated on groups being separated or kept apart. That's what 'segregation' refers to. Discrimination and segregation are not the same thing. You segregate children by age in school, and that's not discrimination; you might think your black neighbor is a blight on the community, but that's not segregation. Accuracy in terms is important when you're dealing with a touchy subject like this.

 

[RelexCryo]

I imagine 100 guys, at least, will sticky this and post a link to it in all future internet debates with women over whether or nor girl gamers are a minority.

 

[Criquefreak]

The theme doesn't discourage a male audience, it discourages a sexist audience. If someone "roll their eyes when a woman mentions ... discrimination" without even bothering to hear them out, that person is a sexist, and frankly doesn't have anything valuable to add to the discussion.

Which is why a conference with this theme would be different from a topic section at a general conference. The participants would be mostly (if not entirely) interested in inclusion, which is more than you can say for the general population of the games industry.

And that's not to say there won't be differences of opinion. Anyone who gets rude or hostile with me because of real or imagined discrimination they've seen from others is going to be in for a spirited debate.

Alright, I'll concede to a few of the points you've made. The trouble is that the audience that's in most need of being affected by the matters brought up in this conference are the general population of the games industry. Playing off alone with all like-minded friends will do almost nothing to help the situation. The already open-minded audience can pat themselves on the back all they please, but as the cancelation of the conference is showing, they're not enough people to make a difference on the industry.