Women of the Escapist: Keeping up appearances in order to reach "perfection"

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manic_depressive13

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Phasmal said:
Basically if I had an ex who felt better about himself by talking shit about me if I tried to look nice and I go outside and judge people for trying to look nice- How am I different? Why is it okay?
Trying to bring others down does not put you above.
I completely agree. I just think it might be more productive to say that you shouldn't resent anyone for trying to look and feel attractive. Whether or not someone is dressing for themselves is completely beside the point in my opinion. Maybe I want to wear short-shorts to look like the hulk. Maybe I want to wear short-shorts because I want random men to think I'm sexy. Both are valid reasons.

I know that you're not trying to put anyone down. I have just seen that line of argument be misused way too often.
 

Phasmal

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manic_depressive13 said:
Phasmal said:
Basically if I had an ex who felt better about himself by talking shit about me if I tried to look nice and I go outside and judge people for trying to look nice- How am I different? Why is it okay?
Trying to bring others down does not put you above.
I completely agree. I just think it might be more productive to say that you shouldn't resent anyone for trying to look and feel attractive. Whether or not someone is dressing for themselves is completely beside the point in my opinion. Maybe I want to wear short-shorts to look like the hulk. Maybe I want to wear short-shorts because I want random men to think I'm sexy. Both are valid reasons.

I know that you're not trying to put anyone down. I have just seen that line of argument be misused way too often.
Yeah, I've never been too great at wording, but that's basically what I meant.
Just let everyone be happy.

EDIT: Also you should try dressing like the Hulk at least once. I find it does wonders for the confidence.
 

wulf3n

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Phasmal said:
The last one is an easy trap to fall into, but really girls, do YOU get up in the morning and ask yourself what a random man would think of your outfit?
I don't.
If I dress in short-shorts it's for me.*
If I dress in a nun outfit it would still be for me.
The question I've always had with that position, is what are you really getting out of it?

It's hard to explain the question, so I'll propose another question, Would you still care about your appearance if you were the last living thing in existence?

I sure wouldn't. I accept that my appearance is for me, at least how in the sense that it's how I want to be perceived by other people, in a world with only me however I wouldn't care about appearance.
 

Relish in Chaos

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Firstly, what race is this woman?

Secondly, if there?s anything I know about how guys feel about girls, it?s that they don?t care too much if you fit a ?standard? of beauty. It?s a myth that porn gives men ?unrealistic expectations of women?, because I don?t know any guy that rigidly expects a woman to be a spotless, super-curvy, ?alpha female? with gigantic breasts and a perfectly round ass. What guys like in girls is just as varied as what girls like in guys. For example, I?m partial to tall androgynous girls with short hair, but it?s certainly not a dating criteria. You don?t have to have a certain colour of hair, skin smoothness, cup size (I don?t actually know what breast size a C-cup is) or even be stunning. I couldn?t tell you the amount of girls (and guys) with partners at my school (and outside) who ? and I feel ashamed to even say this ? I?ve looked at and thought, ?How the fuck do they get laid? They?re absolute munters!? It?s a cliché, but if there?s one thing both guys and girls like almost universally, it?s confidence.

But yeah, there?s this girl I?m acquainted with through my friend who I talk to occasionally on Facebook, and she said the other day that no matter how many compliments people (both male and female) give her about her appearance, she?ll always think she?s ugly. I mean, she?s a smart girl; she knows that all that stuff in girls? magazines is damaging to girls? self-esteem, but she?s always looking at other girls and putting them up on a pedestal and saying things like, ?You don?t know how much I wish I was her?. I don?t think it?s just a teenage girl thing, although it?s probably worse when you?re a teenager because hormones, peer pressure, blah.

Of course, it?s easier said than done, and it doesn?t help that it?s very hard for a woman of average or less-than-average attractiveness to get into showbiz or the film industry. Even I, as a black male, sometimes presume that girls won?t be interested in me because of my colour, even when my friends tell me it?s silly to think that (and sometimes jokily invoke the ?big black dick? trope). But the best advice you can give is that, whenever anxiety strikes and you hear a voice in your head or something going, ?You?re never going to be good enough?, try to challenge those thoughts rationally and ask yourself if anyone even cares about these things as much as you do. They probably don?t, and if they do, they?re not the people you should be hanging around with. If someone calls you a ?slut?, it?s because they can?t think of a more creative insult. As for media, the only reason they like to get into women?s heads and encourage them to gossip about their colleagues? dress sense is so they can make money out of their insecurities by getting them to buy more make-up, perfume and shoes likely identical to the ones they have at home anyway.
 

Phasmal

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Jun 10, 2011
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wulf3n said:
Phasmal said:
The last one is an easy trap to fall into, but really girls, do YOU get up in the morning and ask yourself what a random man would think of your outfit?
I don't.
If I dress in short-shorts it's for me.*
If I dress in a nun outfit it would still be for me.
The question I've always had with that position, is what are you really getting out of it?

It's hard to explain the question, so I'll propose another question, Would you still care about your appearance if you were the last living thing in existence?

I sure wouldn't. I accept that my appearance is for me, at least how in the sense that it's how I want to be perceived by other people, in a world with only me however I wouldn't care about appearance.
Yes I would still care about my appearance if I were the last living thing, after I got over the massive trauma of that, I guess.
I sometimes wanna look nice even if I'm not going anywhere and am not even gonna leave my house.
Certain clothes can make you feel a certain way.
Looking nice when you're feeling shitty can lighten your mood.

And if I did care what people thought, they would be the people I love, not some random stranger on the bus.
But that's just me personally.
 

Uhura

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Aug 30, 2012
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Phasmal said:
But I'm seeing too much girlhate in this thread.
Girls, don't hate on other girls. They are dealing with the exact same shit you are. How they choose to deal with it is up to them.

And make up is not evil.
And women do not make all their fashion choices just for men.
Yeah, this is something that bothers me a lot when I read discussions like this one. There is no need to resent women who choose to express themselves differently than you and I think it's sad how common "girl hate" is especially among younger women. It's the whole "other girls" thing.




It's such a toxic attitude.
 

Ihateregistering1

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Sgt. Sykes said:
I'd just like to point out that pretty much every study or research has shown that guys aren't actually that interested in the 'beauty standards' made up by the fashion industry. It's just that it's so ubiquitous that people got to the idea that those actually are human standards. In reality, guys generally don't appreciate those fakes.

It's the same with guys really. From the ads, one would say that a man should have a gigantic dick and huge Rambo muscles, and many guys really obsess about both. But ask real women and most don't actually like those traits.

Not saying that looks are completely unimportant, that would be lying. One is supposed to generally take care about oneself (to prevent getting unhealthy/overweight and such) but obsessing about some artificial standards can get a person to a bad place and frame of mind.

('m a guy.)
Thanks for pointing this out, I think there's a massive disparity between what Joe Schmo, average guy on the street actually finds attractive, and what the "fashion industry" says is attractive. For example, for years, Kate Moss was considered the poster-child of both runway models and also the dangerous obsession with thinness in that particular industry. But I have yet to meet a single heterosexual male who thinks Kate Moss is attractive.

On the other hand, I've met tons of guys who think Gina Carano or Ronda Rousey are super hot, and I think we can all agree that those ladies are most definitely healthy and fit (they are top athletes in a very physically demanding sport).
 

Parasondox

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Ihateregistering1 said:
Thanks for pointing this out, I think there's a massive disparity between what Joe Schmo, average guy on the street actually finds attractive, and what the "fashion industry" says is attractive. For example, for years, Kate Moss was considered the poster-child of both runway models and also the dangerous obsession with thinness in that particular industry. But I have yet to meet a single heterosexual male who thinks Kate Moss is attractive.

On the other hand, I've met tons of guys who think Gina Carano or Ronda Rousey are super hot, and I think we can all agree that those ladies are most definitely healthy and fit (they are top athletes in a very physically demanding sport).
I see that a lot. I have never actually heard Joe Schmoe, average guy on the streets or on TV that would say Kate Moss was attractive. However whenever there is a story about Christina Hendricks, most of the comment section online would have loads of men saying "wow what a woman", "now that's a real woman" and other things similar to that. Christina Hendricks is a woman that is, as the fashion industry would describe as, "plus size", which the majority of the industry do not advertise. Just to say, I have no idea what the minimum for "plus size" is because each country is different. I don't think Christina Hendricks is plus size but the fashion industry may think of her as that.
 

BarkBarker

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If anyone who thinks they are worth their salt ever sits there using the word fit or banging to describe beauty, I will personally come and wrench their teeth out. Just had to make that point, you speak the English language, the language which is a fucking mastermind at describing things, USE IT PROPERLY.

As a guy, I get pissed off with the notion of perfect or standard, because perfection is subjective, perfection for one is a monstrosity for another, to appeal to this general idea makes nothing of you but exactly what I can imagine, and if I can imagine it to the fucking tee, I likely won't be all that impressed. Beauty isn't a set of attributes, it is a state of being, yes there are a few things like ample breast size and in general a child bearing body that are promoted as beautiful because they are what we desire as a rule of reproduction, but this bombardment of what you MUST be creates a phenomenal amount of conformity, an element despised in a species that thrives on being so vast and different.

Also, the guy sounds like an inconsiderate fuck who deserves to be run over and consequentially kicked the fuck out of the gene pool, I want to have some wonderful kids some day and I get real upset when I see shitheads like you and realise you and your goddamn family line are gonna be the bane of mine for a real long time. Making me suffer is one thing, but the future of my family deserves a little less of that crap.
 

Phasmal

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Jun 10, 2011
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Uhura said:
Yeah, this is something that bothers me a lot when I read discussions like this one. There is no need to resent women who choose to express themselves differently than you and I think it's sad how common "girl hate" is especially among younger women. It's the whole "other girls" thing.




It's such a toxic attitude.
I agree.
Though I'll fully admit I went through an `I'm not like other girls!` stage. (internal facepalm)
It's such bullshit, I'm embarrassed for my past self- and seeing it now just makes me feel sad.

I think especially ladies who are interested in hobbies society deems as not traditionally feminine can fall into this trap.
 

Parasondox

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ProfMcStevie said:
If anyone who thinks they are worth their salt ever sits there using the word fit or banging to describe beauty, I will personally come and wrench their teeth out. Just had to make that point, you speak the English language, the language which is a fucking mastermind at describing things, USE IT PROPERLY.
You have not been to east London have you? Let me demonstrate;

"Bruv that girl is bare piff"
"What the heck is piff and why are you calling her that?"
"Like piff inti, chong ting, bar nice, proper fit, cloud 9 banging blood"
*confessed face* "What?"
"Bruv you don't know, init"
"Of course I don't know because none of what you said, made any sense. I need to go to WHSmith, buy a dictionary and smack you across the head with it because if I just threw my phone at you, it will wouldn't give you the tools you need to actually describe a WOMAN!!"

Ladies and Gentleman that was just a bit of satire. No one was harmed in the making of that... I don't think. It was clearly for humour. It's slang so that's how some speak and not ever situation, especially with friends, they would use the correct English term.
 

BarkBarker

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Paradox SuXcess said:
You have not been to east London have you? Let me demonstrate;

"Bruv that girl is bare piff"
"What the heck is piff and why are you calling her that?"
"Like piff inti, chong ting, bar nice, proper fit, cloud 9 banging blood"
*confessed face* "What?"
"Bruv you don't know, init"
"Of course I don't know because none of what you said, made any sense. I need to go to WHSmith, buy a dictionary and smack you across the head with it because if I just threw my phone at you, it will wouldn't give you the tools you need to actually describe a WOMAN!!"

Ladies and Gentleman that was just a bit of satire. No one was harmed in the making of that... I don't think. It was clearly for humour. It's slang so that's how some speak and not ever situation, especially with friends, they would use the correct English term.
I make it a point that if you wish to ever call yourself a real man, you should be able to describe and appropriately dress the opposite sex, what is a man if he cannot put his mind to paper or garb the very sex he supposedly adores in a manner that accentuates her truest beauty, I ask you!
 

Riot3000

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Oct 7, 2013
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So I am male about to say my piece about this and I am African American so my view might be different.

For me the the whole super thin big bust thing is not really the standard nor it is the desirable thing. Girls who are more on the big side of things usually have no problem getting guys and what not. I mean even the skinnys usually have a pretty big butt on them to get some attention so I going to assume most of this comes from the european standard.