Women's experiences of video games.

[saluraropicrusa]

I'm 22, and technically female.

I've been into video games since I was pretty young. I remember watching my dad play Half-Life, before we got our first console, which was an N64 (that I still have). Me and my dad and brother would play Goldeneye 64, Perfect Dark and Road Rash 64 all the time, but the first game I remember really getting into on my own was LoZ: Ocarina of Time. That, as well as Banjo-Tooie, were staples of my childhood as far as games went, along with a few old PC games. The first console I got that was my own was the original XBox, which I got for Christmas along with the first Halo.

I enjoy shooters, action adventure, puzzle (to a certain degree) and some Western RPGs. Currently I've mostly been into Skyrim and Champions Online, though the latter mostly for the role playing community. Creating characters is one of my absolute favorite things to do in a game, especially with a good character creator. While Skyrim's isn't the best, the freedom you have in terms of gameplay (and mods, for the PC players) really allows me to go wild with the characters I create. The three I currently have are a vampiric Khajiit assassin, a womanizing Argonian mage, and a wild, bloodthirsty, Redguard werewolf.

I don't interact too much with online communities (save for Champions Online), and when I do gender doesn't really come up since I almost never use voice communication. I don't think it's important for people to know, anyway, and I'm not too fussed if they think I'm a guy. I've had good and bad experiences with the people I've interacted with, but none of it ever had to do with my gender or theirs. It was all down to personality.

If I never read anything about sexism in gaming, I would never really notice it. That's not to say I think it's okay for it to be there, or that I think women aren't sometimes portrayed badly, I just don't care. I don't pay attention to that sort of thing when it comes to games unless it's really, really bad (although, unlike a lot of people, I'm not too fussed by chain mail bikinis). I've never felt alienated by a female character that's designed to be sexy... though that could in part be because I'm attracted to women. I don't believe that just because a character is sexy it means their portrayal is sexist, though. I do love seeing awesome female characters, of course. I just really don't pay that much attention to how any demographic is portrayed unless a: it's pointed out to me or b: it's blatant and incredibly dumb.

 

[maninahat]

This is great so far. What I'm getting from this is that there seems to be very little difference in what females play compared to males.

You're making a mistake in assuming that female gamers on the escapist are representative of female gamers in general. The fact of the matter is, there are many female gamers who are not interested in videogame forums. Their tastes are likely to be different. The same applies to guys too, but there is no way of accurately telling the difference between the gaming habits of each sex if you restrict yourself to a gaming website. You need to produce surveys and get them out to the general public.

 

[Phasmal]

Female, 22.

What games I play: Pretty much anything. I would say the games I regularly play are Dota 2, Planetside, Team Fortress 2, Guild Wars 2, Skyrim. I'm a huge fan of the Bioshock series. I was mostly a console gamer until about four years ago when I was introduced to World Of Warcraft, which I played pretty heavily until fairly recently. I got into games when I was about six or seven, starting on the Megadrive and going from there. I never ever saw gaming as a `boy thing` and didn't even know it was heavily male oriented for a good while.

Opinion of video games in general: I love games, and I think it funny that anybody could doubt a female gamer's passion for games when we put up with the shit that we do. It annoys me that many game creators consider me and people like me invisible, but I hope that's going away. I have always loved games and I always will.

Experiences in the community: This is the not-fun one. I have been in pretty much every spectrum of the gaming community and experienced it a ton of different ways. I've pretended to be a man online, and that has been without a doubt the easiest way to experience the community. I've been that `one-of-the-guys` girl, the one who I look back and cringe on as I was told I was so different to other girls because they love DRAMA (hint: that's a load of bull). Then I experienced the community as Friendly Female Gamer, here to be a learning opportunity for when people started talking shit about my fellow lady-gamers or just ladies in general, (yeah, that doesn't work. People just insist you are `the exception`). I haven't really had that alleged `Guys giving you stuff cause you are a lady`.
To be honest, I honestly don't know if the community is getting better or worse. I don't join in on public voice chat even though the guys I play with can freely use in-game voice without people flipping their shit.

How women are represented in games: Poorly. Some of that is bad writing in general, some of it is developers choosing to ignore a portion of their audience, but this topic has been done a million times.

Have I ever been put off by how women were represented in a certain game: Yes. Needless pandering puts me off.

There you go, my massive rambling answer. =)

 

[Voulan]

I've recently turned 20. Unlike many other people in this thread, I didn't play games at such an early age. The first game console I had was a Gameboy Pocket that I played Pokemon Silver and Red on, but otherwise I enjoyed watching other people play more than actually getting into it myself. I have many a memory of watching my cousins playing Tekken and Crash Bandicoot. My mum bought a Sega Genesis from a friend of mine, with some random games and also Sonics 1 and 2, but I could never finish them, and instead preferred watching my sister play them. When I got a PS1 (another hand-me-down from a friend) the games I played were fairly generic children games - lots of Disney, and also Mary-Kate and Ashley, though me and my sister hated those games and mocked them (waaay too girly). It wasn't until we got a (brand new this time!) PS2 that I began properly playing them, making my first gaming purchase on my own rather than games my parents got me. I originally got a LOTR game, but hated it, and I managed to trade it in for Tomb Raider Angel of Darkness, being a big fan of the movies. I absolutely adored it (especially playing as the wonderful Lara Croft), and have continued playing since then. Another big milestone was a friend introducing me to the Kingdom Hearts series, which remains one of my favourites of all time. Probably my most played games of that generation would be my Tomb Raiders, Kingdom Hearts', and Grand Theft Auto. I adored Grand Theft Auto. I've never really had a powerful computer, and it was always in my parent's bedroom, which may be why I prefer console gaming, but I was a big fan of the Sims, and my sister especially so.

Since then, my gaming interests are mostly centered around RPGS (or basically anything where I can tailor the experience somewhat, and I prefer open worlds), but I actually have almost any genre for my PS3. I have some shooters (COD: World at War, Far Cry 2 and 3) adventure games (Tomb Raider Underworld, Uncharted 2, Assassin's Creed II), two racing-type games (SSX and Driver: San Francisco), platformers (Alice and Alice: Madness Returns, and I guess Mirror's Edge), RPGs (Oblivion, Skyrim, Borderlands 2, Deus Ex: Human Revolution, Fallout 3, Borderlands 2). On my computer I still have the Sims 2, Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines, Thief Deadly Shadows, Katawa Shoujo and the Penumbra series. The only games I'm planning to buy for the time being is the new Tomb Raider, Elder Scrolls Online (my first serious MMO) and the Kingdom Hearts 1.5 Collection. I'm beginning to play online more so now because I really enjoy playing with other people - not competitively though. If I do any DM, I play with parties.

In terms of reception, I only ever reveal my gender when asked directly, but I've never had any bad reaction from that - most people are actually impressed or indifferent. I've had two people wanting me to be their girlfriend, and they were both 14 (haha). My PSN is gender neutral and I almost never use a mic unless with people I know well, so the only insults I get is generic "you suck, dude!" comments when I beat them. I get some smug satisfaction from imagining myself speaking over the mic and revealing my gender when this happens, but I'm too shy to do something like that. It's a very rare occurrence, though. Other people praise my playing. In real life my friends love this part of my identity, mostly because everyone we know are nerds, and I only get people impressed with my gaming knowledge, rather than anything patronizing. This might be because I'm in New Zealand though.

As for my views on the gaming community, I often get into fights with people on the Escapist about female representation, especially to those that tell women to 'get over it' and that they're sick of the topic, so we should 'drop it' or 'it happens to men too so quit complaining'. If the option is available, I'll always play as female, and I wish there were more choices out there. In terms of the latest gaming industry controversies, I hated the Hitman trailer (for the pointless sexy nun outfits, otherwise it's fine), hated the Dead Island bust (for stripping a girl down to the only 'sell-able' parts worth marketing), and I do not hate the Tomb Raider controversy, mostly because as a huge fan I'd been following the development process closely so it was not news to me at all, and I've actually talked to the devs and had my questions answered and followed their podcasts, so I know where they're going with it.

As for being put off by a game because of the women in it? Never in the games I've wanted from the beginning. The only games I turn from would be MMOs and fighter games, and some JRPGs. The women in those are outrageous, mostly because their outfits are completely impractical and are obvious pandering. I don't play them anyway, though.

Is....is that all you need? Your points are a little broad.

As for ever being put off from playing, sure. Two days ago I decided to play Final Fantasy X, which happened to be my very first game in that franchise. At first it was ok, but then I saw a girl with naked lower front and a thin strip of leather over her sexual organs, then she turned around and I saw that her arse was naked. The main character did not react, as it was normal, while I was gaping in sheer shock. To make the matters worse, she was supposed to be your sidekick and to keep wearing that outfit. I turned the game off and of course I'm never going back to the Final Fantasy franchise.

I know the part you're referring to - it's on a boat near the beginning, right? And her name was Rikku? I was horrified by that scene as well, however I realized later she's not naked, it's actually a yellow suit. She's actually completely covered up, and it's just the lighting that makes her look completely naked. This is revealed later when she takes it off to show her normal clothes during the daylight, where it's actually a different colour to her skin. However, that scene is weirdly sexualised as well, which is creepy considering she's only 14 in that game.

But yeah, she's not naked. I had to do a few double-takes as well. Maybe it was an intentional thing, or an unfortunate lighting issue.

 

[TaboriHK]

I'm not so sure outside of very wide brushstrokes, you could get a definitive statement about what an entire gender wants from gaming.

 

[Elel]

hated the Dead Island bust (for stripping a girl down to the only 'sell-able' parts worth marketing)

Please, clarify what you mean by that. I was planning to get Dead Island, but it sounds like it might not be worth it.

I know the part you're referring to - it's on a boat near the beginning, right? And her name was Rikku? I was horrified by that scene as well, however I realized later she's not naked, it's actually a yellow suit. She's actually completely covered up, and it's just the lighting that makes her look completely naked. This is revealed later when she takes it off to show her normal clothes during the daylight, where it's actually a different colour to her skin. However, that scene is weirdly sexualised as well, which is creepy considering she's only 14 in that game.

Yes, Rikku. I had a hope that she was wearing an outfit as well, but no matter how I squinted it looked like bare skin to me.

I'm sure it was intentional fanservice, though. Developers must've realized how horrible it was and "revealed" that it was an outfit of the same color as skin, but that doesn't take away the fact that such fanservice was present in the game. Somebody else will play Final Fantasy I'm sure, but I want to see no more of this.

 

[Karoshi]

hated the Dead Island bust (for stripping a girl down to the only 'sell-able' parts worth marketing)

Please, clarify what you mean by that. I was planning to get Dead Island, but it sounds like it might not be worth it.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/121533-Deep-Silver-Apologizes-for-Mutilated-Dead-Island-Torso

Deep Silver added a mutilated female torse in a bikini with miraculously intact boobies to its Collectors edition. While some people were disgusted by the gore of the thing, others found it sexist - "stripping a girl down to the only 'sell-able' parts worth marketing" . Personally I agree with that sentiment. If it were a male torso, I doubt he'd be wearing a tong with bulging man-parts.

The game itself might be ok, but its marketing department appears as brain-dead as the zombies themselves.

 

[Eddie the head]

hated the Dead Island bust (for stripping a girl down to the only 'sell-able' parts worth marketing)

Please, clarify what you mean by that. I was planning to get Dead Island, but it sounds like it might not be worth it.

A Bust you know a sculpture? It was just of some woman's chest. I didn't care but I'm a guy and had no interest in the game.

 

[Voulan]

hated the Dead Island bust (for stripping a girl down to the only 'sell-able' parts worth marketing)

Please, clarify what you mean by that. I was planning to get Dead Island, but it sounds like it might not be worth it.

Karoshi here basically summed it up for me:

hated the Dead Island bust (for stripping a girl down to the only 'sell-able' parts worth marketing)

Please, clarify what you mean by that. I was planning to get Dead Island, but it sounds like it might not be worth it.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/121533-Deep-Silver-Apologizes-for-Mutilated-Dead-Island-Torso

Deep Silver added a mutilated female torse in a bikini with miraculously intact boobies to its Collectors edition. While some people were disgusted by the gore of the thing, others found it sexist - "stripping a girl down to the only 'sell-able' parts worth marketing" . Personally I agree with that sentiment. If it were a male torso, I doubt he'd be wearing a tong with bulging man-parts.

The game itself might be ok, but its marketing department appears as brain-dead as the zombies themselves.

The good thing is that many people found it tasteless. There are the unfortunate people out there that seem to stomp over anything anyone calls sexist because they're "sick of the topic", as though that means we should drop it for entertainment sake. I've seen a few people even tell some female gamers here to "get the F*** over it", because "it happens to men too!" I suppose from a community perspective, it's comments like these that make me wish I wasn't a gamer. Some people don't even see anything wrong with it, or have any inkling as to why that might be offensive to some people. Luckily, though outspoken, these people are a minority, and most people, male or female, found the thing repulsive.

They've dropped it now, so feel free to still buy it! Welcome, by the way.

 

[Elel]

Thanx for welcoming me! It looks like a nice forum.

Yeah I'm also sick of people who say "there's no problem, get over it". Of course, there is no problem. FOR THEM. In pretty much all games you play as powerful males and ogle scantily clad female bodies, why would it be a problem for a male? Of course it isn't. They're being honest. But misguided, because it's obviously silly to use that as an argument.

Also if men had a problem with their own representation in games, they'd be screaming like hell about it, so it's very hypocritical to pretend that they don't like how they're portrayed in games to shut us up. Of course they have no problem with it, I can't see them complaining, unlike us. It's an excuse, just like saying "it's historically accurate to mistreat women" about fantasy games, c'mon those are FANTASY games, with fireball-throwing mages and dragons!

Unfortunately, I believe we have to be very vocal about it all the time, until game developers are forced to notice us and and change their policies. It's never going to happen on its own, in silence everybody is going to think that you've got no problem. I was personally heavily disappointed with the last Deus Ex, it's a brilliant game, but unlike the previous Deux Ex which featured gender choice you can only play as a male. Game developers consider even such a basic thing redundant and unneccesary to the point of removal, the situation with women in games is paleolithic for now.

 

[rbstewart7263]

Thanx for welcoming me! It looks like a nice forum.

Yeah I'm also sick of people who say "there's no problem, get over it". Of course, there is no problem. FOR THEM. In pretty much all games you play as powerful males and ogle scantily clad female bodies, why would it be a problem for a male? Of course it isn't. They're being honest. But misguided, because it's obviously silly to use that as an argument.

Also if men had a problem with their own representation in games, they'd be screaming like hell about it, so it's very hypocritical to pretend that they don't like how they're portrayed in games to shut us up. Of course they have no problem with it, I can't see them complaining, unlike us. It's an excuse, just like saying "it's historically accurate to mistreat women" about fantasy games, c'mon those are FANTASY games, with fireball-throwing mages and dragons!

Unfortunately, I believe we have to be very vocal about it all the time, until game developers are forced to notice us and and change their policies. It's never going to happen on its own, in silence everybody is going to think that you've got no problem. I was personally heavily disappointed with the last Deus Ex, it's a brilliant game, but unlike the previous Deux Ex which featured gender choice you can only play as a male. Game developers consider even such a basic thing redundant and unneccesary to the point of removal, the situation with women in games is paleolithic for now.

I think more goods come from this thread than any silly debate could have. While I dont agree when people try to make out all male gamers as this misogynist horde(not saying everyone does that) I agree that there needs to be more variety of female characters. I still think the scantily's have a place for me an all but some variety for teh ladies would be nice. And also when there are buff shirtless guys walking around like twilight in our games I can finally say "HA! Who's being pandered too now!!! " jk

also I agree screw this recent deus ex game it was a shell of the previous two in my opinion. I actually liked invisible war.

 

[Voulan]

Thanx for welcoming me! It looks like a nice forum.

Yeah I'm also sick of people who say "there's no problem, get over it". Of course, there is no problem. FOR THEM. In pretty much all games you play as powerful males and ogle scantily clad female bodies, why would it be a problem for a male? Of course it isn't. They're being honest. But misguided, because it's obviously silly to use that as an argument.

Also if men had a problem with their own representation in games, they'd be screaming like hell about it, so it's very hypocritical to pretend that they don't like how they're portrayed in games to shut us up. Of course they have no problem with it, I can't see them complaining, unlike us. It's an excuse, just like saying "it's historically accurate to mistreat women" about fantasy games, c'mon those are FANTASY games, with fireball-throwing mages and dragons!

Unfortunately, I believe we have to be very vocal about it all the time, until game developers are forced to notice us and and change their policies. It's never going to happen on its own, in silence everybody is going to think that you've got no problem. I was personally heavily disappointed with the last Deus Ex, it's a brilliant game, but unlike the previous Deux Ex which featured gender choice you can only play as a male. Game developers consider even such a basic thing redundant and unneccesary to the point of removal, the situation with women in games is paleolithic for now.

Exactly. Although, I really enjoyed Deus Ex: Human Revolution. I think, for the sake of a story, there couldn't really be gender choice, since that would have drastically altered the whole origin and lore of human augmentation which centers entirely around Adam (and is also a prequel, so changing Adam to Eve or vice versa would hamper canon a little). I actually wrote an essay on female representation in the game for my university course (my favourite assignment ever!) and explored the common role women have in sci fi. I covered the Hengsha prostitutes and Eliza (if you would call her female) and how, since technology and bodily improvement can be heavily associated with men and patriarchal values, these are the main roles women are forced to take. Their augmentations are limited to making them more beautiful and appealing, rather than for military use. In fact, Cyberpunk 2077 seems to have a very similar concept.

I actually liked how this went in the game, since it seemed realistic. Not only is there a dichotomy between male and female, but also human and Augs, so it seems natural that these familiar and safe gender roles are enforced again when a rapid change is occurring in social structure. But since by the time mechanical augmentation had vastly improved to nano-technology in the later games, these changes are probably well-ingrained in society, and having a female military-augmented character is probably no longer seen as controversial, since it has become as normal as cell phones, nearly. I would love a female-centric character in a future game.

Anyway, I'm getting ahead of myself, sorry.

 

[Angie7F]

SNIP

very similar situation for me too.
female, late twenties. Was born and raised with the NES.
My family was well off back then, and I was an only child so my parents tended to just get me expensive game consoles and I would play with them without thinking twice.
My mother was also into gaming (maybe more so than me) and loved RE1.

the experience for me as a whole was that my family would be brought together through gaming with my mom using the controls, me reading the walk through and dad reading his book in the background.

I personally stopped buying consoles around when the 64 came out.
I won a wii in a bingo game after that, but moved on to handheld consoles.

I guess I prefer them because I can play it whenever I like, which is crucial to me because I spend less time at home.
Also, I can play old games from back in NES etc.

 

[Rawne1980]

I hope people don't think videogame characters represent women.

Are you trying to say you don't want to go into combat wearing a chain bikini?

 

[VanQ]

Experiences in the community: This is the not-fun one. I have been in pretty much every spectrum of the gaming community and experienced it a ton of different ways. I've pretended to be a man online, and that has been without a doubt the easiest way to experience the community. I've been that `one-of-the-guys` girl, the one who I look back and cringe on as I was told I was so different to other girls because they love DRAMA (hint: that's a load of bull). Then I experienced the community as Friendly Female Gamer, here to be a learning opportunity for when people started talking shit about my fellow lady-gamers or just ladies in general, (yeah, that doesn't work. People just insist you are `the exception`). I haven't really had that alleged `Guys giving you stuff cause you are a lady`.
To be honest, I honestly don't know if the community is getting better or worse. I don't join in on public voice chat even though the guys I play with can freely use in-game voice without people flipping their shit.

I've seen a lot of drama in MMOs over the presence of a female. HOLD UP! Let me clarify, I'm not saying it was their fault. The opposite in fact. Usually it's the guys that cause drama between themselves over the female. Then they all tend to blame it on her, just for being there. I've seen it happen way too many times. I've had entire guilds tear themselves apart from the inside because of it and it's a really sad thing to see.

And I used to see the girls getting free stuff in MMOs thing all the time wayyyy back at the end of the 90's and early 00's. The whole concept was made more prominent by web comics at the time that would make fun of it. It's not something I see anymore today as the online community has shifted away from old styled MMOs to more theme park styled MMOs.

My opinion may be invalid considering the nature of the thread but I think the community is getting worse. As more and more people flood into the hobby naturally there are going to be a lot more bad eggs and it becomes much more difficult for us to moderate ourselves. It used to be much easier to estrange a bad egg from the community because it was smaller and that made it easier to recognize repeat offenders.

 

[zei]

My observation is that we generally like games heavy on story and customization, where the experience is something more than strategy and shooting targets.

 

[Uhura]

I'm in my mid 20s and started playing video games when I was a kid. I grew up playing my cousin's Sega Mega Drive (mostly Sonic and other platformers) and games like Duke Nukem 1&2 and Commander Keen on PC until my parents bought me my first console, the PlayStation. I've always been a huge fan of Indiana Jones so naturally I gravitated towards the Tomb Rider games. I loved the fact that the lead was a girl, especially since I hadn't played any characters of my own gender before that. In regards to Lara's portrayal in the games I remember thinking that her breasts looked kinda weird and that her clothing choices were a bit odd but in general the in-game Lara didn't really bother me and I was always completely immersed in the game. I was a bit put off by some of the Tomb Raider advertisements though, since Lara was my action-girl hero and I found it really difficult to identify with the 'sultry, semi-nude Lara' posters I found in gaming magazines.

I also absolutely loved the Broken Sword franchise and the first Rayman game.
(Other games I played: ESPN Extreme Games (loved kicking the street lugers), Gran Turismo, Destruction Derby, Myst, Grand Theft Auto, Simon the Sorcerer, Oddworld, Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, Tekken etc.)

After my PlayStation died my gaming got a bit more irregular since our PCs weren't always fit for gaming (I remember wishing we had a computer that could run Baldur's Gate 2). So for many years I didn't play video games actively. During that time though I discovered my favorite game ever, Grim Fandango and one of my favorite horror games Silent Hill 3 .
(Other games I played: Heroes of Might and Magic V, Sims 2 (I pretty much only designed houses in the game) etc.)

I started getting back into gaming around 2008 when I got an iPod touch for Christmas present and downloaded games like Beneath a Steel Sky, Monkey Island 1&2 and Peggle on it. Then a few years later I purchased my first Xbox 360 and now I'm firmly back in the 'gaming world'. I currently love to play games like Mass Effect 1-3, Alan Wake, DAO, L.A. Noire, Minecraft, Borderlands, Deadly Premonition, Fallout 3, Indigo Prophecy (= Fahrenheit) etc. The common theme seems to be that I love story heavy games. I also always play as a female if I'm given the choice.

I've definitely been put off by female representation in certain games and it has affected my game buying habits. For example, I haven't purchased Arkham City even though I enjoyed Arkham Asylum, because I find Catwoman's character design so OTT and blergh. I'm also a bit worried about the upcoming Tomb Raider and I'm not going to buy it if it seems like they have completely botched Lara's character. I'm trying to stay optimistic though.

I've never been into online gaming and since Xbox is currently my main gaming platform, I probably wont get into online gaming any time soon either. I'm not going to pay for XBL just to get verbally abused and threatened. In real life I've been lucky in that I've have never gotten any grief for playing video games. Growing up almost all of my friends (mostly girls) were gamers and all the guys I've known have been cool with it too (no one has ever checked my gamer cred in a rude manner etc.).

 

[Mikejames]

My input doesn't mean much, but my sisters never liked shooters.
One used to really like side-scrollers like Mario and Donkey Kong, but she outgrew them. My older sister still enjoys games with an emphasis on narrative, such as Shattered Memories and Dreamfall, or RPGs like Mass Effect.

 

[WILLCO25]

This is all very useful. Ill be making a questionnaire to get some quantitative data on this, which Ill post on here for anyone who's interested. Thank you all very much for your help.