Working in the games industry...

[Arnoxthe1]

OK then.

1. I should have been more clear. Although taking care of a channel or being a competent games journalist may be hard, let me ask you something. What would you rather do? Spend 8 hours making videos of your choosing and administer a channel how you want plus other duties? Or work in a factory for 8 hours a day peeling peppers? And please don't tell me that "work can be subjective" when some jobs are CLEARLY worse than others for EVERYONE that does them.

2. I am well aware of how many hours a usual worker in QA will put in. Especially during crunch time. And that does suck. But I can think of 3 jobs right off the top of my head that are three times worse than that. Again, not to say that those really low-level jobs in the industry don't get to be a real grind sometimes but if I'm gonna grind, I'd rather do it in the comfort of an office instead of at a retail store or restaurant. 50-60 hours? Depending on how strapped for cash you are, many other minimum wage jobs will match or even top that. And BTW, if anyone's working overtime without getting paid for it, you do realize that that's flat out illegal, right? I believe Walmart got themselves fried for that a long while ago.

3. As to making sweeping generalizations, yeah it does sound like that. I was actually singling out some unnamed people. Again, I should have been more clear. There are, indeed, good people and bad people in all these lines of work. I wasn't trying to criticise everyone I could. A lot of people already know what I'm talking about. And then some don't.

4. All you guys see is the hours that the designers put in and then judge that making games must be COMPLETELY HORRID. Notice that I'm not talking about QA anymore. I'm talking about the people that are responsible for all of the games content. While some indeed find out that making games isn't for them, some do indeed stay. Why? BECAUSE THEY LIKE DOING IT. As to the former designers who leave, that can happen with any industry. What happened there is people not actually looking into what they're going into.

5. What's the discussion value? Whether you agree or not. Simple as that. I wanna hear it. As to me, there's a really good reason why I can't get into the industry in any capacity at the moment. I have some obligations that I need to take care of first.

 

[michael87cn]

I agree with you OP. I am 27 years old and I have always earned minimum wage. I have never had a car and that has always limited my ability to get a job severely. Taking a bus in america just does not work in some places and where I live the buses are can be late or early and that can cost you your job, so they aren't dependable, and to make a career you have to have dependable transportation.

Rent takes all of my money. All of it. Some times I cannot afford electricity. Some times I can't afford food.

Fantasies about 'getting an education' for me, are just that. I don't have the time or energy for it, and I know I would just end up like you, with a massive debt. So I'm stuck doing this...

I had dreams and hopes of doing Youtube, but I think that's been squashed lately. I'm one of the people that would have really, really appreciated it.

 

[Scootinfroodie]

Protip: You cant work any more than QA in crunch time, and unlike working in a restaurant or in retail, there's no tips or commission. My friend worked at Denny's at the same time I was working in QA, fraction of the hours with the same pay (when you get into QA, expect *drumroll* minimum wage!). Also 50-60 hours is a breeze, it's not the "long hours" we've been talking about. The guys I worked with were at work every day, working OT each day, for MONTHS at various points during their careers. 90 hour work weeks were not unheard of

People will often spend the night at the office to fix something before the next build ships. They'll work until they fix he problem, sleep, wake up the next day and continue. Many of the guys in the industry don't have wives/girlfriends or kids because so much of their time is taken up by their work. Many people also leave due to massive burnout, and it's not like they're absolved from any medical issues as a result of their work. Repetitive tasks screw up your hands, sitting at a desk for too long compacts your spine, and staring at a monitor for ungodly amounts of time is hell on your eyes.
Also there's more employment options than just hourly wage you know. Some people get paid on a different basis, and OT doesn't always factor in

As for liking your job, that really IS a subjective thing. Assuming you live in North America, you're not being forced into servitude, and there actually are a good number of job opportunities, many of which require degrees and training that almost nobody seems to be getting whatsoever. That's not to say that getting a job currently isn't a godawful process, but rather, that this whole implication that there's some weird barrier that magically prevents you from gaining a well paying job, or just going out and creating a successful site or youtube channel not only ignores the amount of work going into any of these things, but also seems to come from a rather bitter outlook that ignores many of the opportunities available simply because people who "have the privilege" of doing minimum wage work for their entire week get to do that for the benefit of the games industry

Also, whats even better is when you finish expending all waking hours for the better part of a week running over the same sections of a game and communicating issues back to the devs/making sure everything is documented in detail while realizing the next week is going to be more of the same until the next build gets shipped, and then some douche talks to you like you've just been dicking around all week
And it happens all the damned time
"What do you mean there are workplace memos concerning arthritis, carpal tunnel and spinal cord issues? I thought you were just playing video games"

 

[Arnoxthe1]

Protip: You cant work any more than QA in crunch time, and unlike working in a restaurant or in retail, there's no tips or commission. My friend worked at Denny's at the same time I was working in QA, fraction of the hours with the same pay (when you get into QA, expect *drumroll* minimum wage!). Also 50-60 hours is a breeze, it's not the "long hours" we've been talking about. The guys I worked with were at work every day, working OT each day, for MONTHS at various points during their careers. 90 hour work weeks were not unheard of

People will often spend the night at the office to fix something before the next build ships. They'll work until they fix he problem, sleep, wake up the next day and continue. Many of the guys in the industry don't have wives/girlfriends or kids because so much of their time is taken up by their work. Many people also leave due to massive burnout, and it's not like they're absolved from any medical issues as a result of their work. Repetitive tasks screw up your hands, sitting at a desk for too long compacts your spine, and staring at a monitor for ungodly amounts of time is hell on your eyes.
Also there's more employment options than just hourly wage you know. Some people get paid on a different basis, and OT doesn't always factor in

As for liking your job, that really IS a subjective thing. Assuming you live in North America, you're not being forced into servitude, and there actually are a good number of job opportunities, many of which require degrees and training that almost nobody seems to be getting whatsoever. That's not to say that getting a job currently isn't a godawful process, but rather, that this whole implication that there's some weird barrier that magically prevents you from gaining a well paying job, or just going out and creating a successful site or youtube channel not only ignores the amount of work going into any of these things, but also seems to come from a rather bitter outlook that ignores many of the opportunities available simply because people who "have the privilege" of doing minimum wage work for their entire week get to do that for the benefit of the games industry

Also, whats even better is when you finish expending all waking hours for the better part of a week running over the same sections of a game and communicating issues back to the devs/making sure everything is documented in detail while realizing the next week is going to be more of the same until the next build gets shipped, and then some douche talks to you like you've just been dicking around all week
And it happens all the damned time
"What do you mean there are workplace memos concerning arthritis, carpal tunnel and spinal cord issues? I thought you were just playing video games"

Dude, you're really preaching to the choir here. For one, in all my jobs I've held, I've never once earned commission or tips. And yes, it was all minimum wage. I mean, have you ever worked as a dishwasher? You don't just wash dishes, you TAKE CARE OF THE ENTIRE RESTAURANT. Bathrooms need to be cleaned? Your job. Buses need to be emptied? Your job. Putting away the dishes? Your job. Refilling the ice? Your job. Someone made a mess? Your job. In fact, the only thing you don't do is wait tables, cook, and deal with paperwork. And the best part? There's only one person at any one time in the restaurant to take care of these things. That's it. And that's not the only fun job I've had. Oh no.

But I don't talk about that. The point is, when I tell you that I'd MUCH rather be working QA than do the jobs that I've had, you can be sure that I've been through my share of really crap jobs. And not only that, fewer hours is a double-edged sword. Sure, you work less, but you also get less pay which, you know, you need. ESPECIALLY in this economy.

And another thing you're not thinking about is that QA is supposed to be an entry level job. Meaning, you don't need to stay with your position after the game is finished. In fact, it's even expected. Yeah, everyone in the industry works incredibly hard but at least they're doing what they want to do, making awesome worlds if you don't mind me getting a little cheesy here. And even then, there's always the indie space, which admittedly isn't a whole lot better in terms of workload if at all, but there you go.

 

[Scootinfroodie]

And another thing you're not thinking about is that QA is supposed to be an entry level job. Meaning, you don't need to stay with your position after the game is finished. In fact, it's even expected. Yeah, everyone in the industry works incredibly hard but at least they're doing what they want to do, making awesome worlds if you don't mind me getting a little cheesy here. And even then, there's always the indie space, which admittedly isn't a whole lot better in terms of workload if at all, but there you go.

Actually, that's not really how it works
Not only is it a pain in the ass to get INTO QA (a position heavily influenced by networking) but once the project is done you probably have no job. It's not "oh you get to leave", it's "we no longer need you glhf". In fact, a good number of jobs in the industry work this way that aren't even remotely entry-level. The companies fire and hire people as part of the cycle of game development, and so it's very important to build up a network of people to keep as many doors open as possible. Additionally, QA is the kind of position where, quite often, companies will want you to have far more knowledge than an entry level employee, or where they will want you to have fairly intimate knowledge of the subject matter at hand. If you're working for a smaller company, having actual experience in programming can really make or break your job application
You're really talking about a job with a tangled web of expectations and job requirements. Some positions are definitely entry level, and companies try to keep it that way
Others are still definitely easier to get into than full-time programming positions, but ultimately you're not just going to walk in (no matter who you know) and get the position

Additionally you've got to consider relevant experience. What's that? You worked in QA? Sorry, that doesn't pertain to the experience requirements of any non-IT job. Have fun having no relevant references and waiting around in the hopes that you can get some somewhere, or that one company nearby will have a job opening sometime within the next 6 months


And this is less about "which job you'd prefer" and more about the marginalization of the amount of work that goes into a game. It also really feels like you're making light of the requirements for most jobs in the industry and media (though I'll definitely concede that standards in many ares of the gaming media are hilariously low)

 

[Aetherlblade]

Do you guys consider those working on youtube and similair working in the games industry? I don't, to me, they are working in the entertainment industry. Its a slight, but important difference imo.

Also about QA: Yes it IS hard to get into. But its also a shit job, get paid shit and it doesn't get you anywhere anymore other than lead QA in a company. Being QA doesn't get you a "real" job, developing games like some people think. Also, its often really long days you need to make and testing a game like that isnt going to be much fun, because usually we will have you test the same part of the game over and over and over again.

Also, personally, if I get a CV from someone who wishes to work for us, having QA experience will only maybe help you if you get tied with someone else.

 

[Britpoint]

Look, you're right that some people who complain about their jobs have much less to complain about than you. A popular Lets Play Youtuber probably has a more enjoyable job than you. I don't see why that means they don't have the right to complain.

Let me put it another way: You have a job that you hate working minimum wage for ridiculous hours? You lucky guy! Do you have any idea how many people can't find work at all? They live off whatever Welfare they can get, barely bringing in enough to pay the bills on their shitty single rooms. And those are the lucky ones without a family to feed. Having employment of any kind is a privilege that you have no right to complain about!

Bollocks. Of course you do. We all have problems to one degree or another. Just because somebody else is standing in deeper shit than you doesn't mean you aren't standing in shit yourself.

And as for people less qualified than you doing jobs they love... that's not their fault. They worked hard to do what they wanted to do. A lot of them made a lot of big sacrifices to do what they want to do. I moved away from all my family and friends to work a temporary QA contract, which was tedious, low paid, long hours until finally two and a half years later I got a shot at design. A lot of journalists, especially those posting online articles, make an absolute pittance and struggle to scrape by every month in a very volatile work environment. It's not easy making money off that stuff you know - bear in mind the vast majority of Youtube content you watch and journalism you read is provided to you free of charge, so all the money has to come from things like ad revenue shares. This is not a stable environment.

This leads to people having to do stuff they hate in order to earn a crust. Most journalists I know hate writing articles full of sensationalist crap, but if that is what their editor wants and their options are write it or don't get paid and fail to pay your utilities bills this month, what would you do? And hey, if you truly want to do their job and think you can do it better, what's stopping you?

 

[Arkhangelsk]

So, what you're saying is that because their job is "easier" and more "privileged" than yours, they're not allowed to complain? Well, then, you have no right to complain either about anything, because there are starving children in Africa who walk ten miles a day just to get water. And some of them probably don't even have legs.

See how silly that sentiment seems now?

As for content creators and such, since when have they said that they don't enjoy their job? Many of the big ones like Pewdiepie, Cryaotic, Nerdcubed, TotalBiscuit and all those DO love their jobs, they state it vicariously. But they're still allowed to complain when it sometimes becomes a toil. Look at Yahtzee, he probably loves his job, but having to leap through a game every week, including lengthy RPGs, he's often been forced to sacrifice entire weeks to sitting in all day, not talking to anybody because he has to finish the bloody game.

Regardless of your situation, you're still allowed to complain when it gets relatively shitty, otherwise only one person in the universe will be allowed to complain about anything because he has it objectively worst.

As for people with less skill getting jobs more luxurious for less toil? Welcome to capitalism, where demand is more important than righteousness. To be honest, I'd like it more this way than to revert back to communism.

 

[Raikas]

4. All you guys see is the hours that the designers put in and then judge that making games must be COMPLETELY HORRID. Notice that I'm not talking about QA anymore. I'm talking about the people that are responsible for all of the games content. While some indeed find out that making games isn't for them, some do indeed stay. Why? BECAUSE THEY LIKE DOING IT. As to the former designers who leave, that can happen with any industry. What happened there is people not actually looking into what they're going into.

Eh, a lot of those content-related jobs are essentially identical to any other IT desk job. I work in eLearning Development, and my job is virtually identical to those of friends who work in game development - we're all just corporate drones. If you're going to hate on office workers in general, fair enough, but there's nothing that really making the games industry unique in that regard.

And another thing you're not thinking about is that QA is supposed to be an entry level job. Meaning, you don't need to stay with your position after the game is finished. In fact, it's even expected.

That's not been my experience with QA testing - our testers tend to be either signed on for a single project (so they're gone once that product goes live) or they move into other low-level jobs like front-line call centres.

Which isn't to say that people aren't out there doing what they love, because many of them are, I'm just saying that games development isn't unique when compared to other software product development role.

 

[omega 616]

It's not "just playing games" it's having to play a game, analyze it (aka take all enjoyment out of it), remember key points, write up an interesting review for it (possibly do a video), then deal with fanboys calling you all kinds of names 'cos of it.

Personally, I think working in games journalism is a fucking shitty job. I might be casting broad strokes but I think short sighted people do it, "hey, I like games, I will work in a gaming field", you don't really consider that games wont be enjoyable anymore.

You will be playing games, not 'cos you want to but 'cos it's your job to! You can't say "I've had enough of this game, what else can I do?" you have to power through. Getting to a point where you spend your free time not playing games 'cos you do that for a job ... like a chef coming home to cook for fun.