Would any of the female escapists be kind enough to offer me some advice?

[JayRPG]

So.. it looks like we were all wrong.

J texted me earlier, maybe an hour after I made my last post, and my boss also dished out a whole lot of stuff.

When my boss said that "J likes boys" she was being more literal than I realised, J likes boys not men - my outburst, which I constantly thought was the point I went wrong, may have actually been the only thing I did right; and the biggest obstacle at the moment is actually that we work together (even though we kind of don't work together, but I'll get into that in a second).

J texted me first, obviously a lot sooner than I was expecting, she asked me if I was going to my bosses get together this weekend, I said that I probably was and asked her the same question, she said she hadn't decided so I asked if my attendance was a factor in her decision, she thought I meant in a bad way (as in me going would mean her not going) and she backpedaled a little.

I apologised for the way I'd been acting and basically what followed was she liked it. Her words paraphrased she loves talking to me, and the flirting, she likes how I make her feel, she likes feeling wanted again.

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It was at this point my boss started messaging me with a lot of helpful info (some of which she wasn't supposed to share of course):
1. J is not only physically attracted to me, she does in fact like me.
2. Suffice it to say that she had a really bad experience with a co-worker a little over a year ago, in the same company we both work for now.
3. She only ever gets hit on for sex (unfortunate side-effect of looking like she does, and working where she does).
4. According to J I'm the only one to ever use the specific compliment 'beautiful' rather than 'sexy' or 'hot' etc and apparently I scored many points for that one, which I only ever said during the outburst.

The last thing my boss said was actually a question, she asked me if I thought J was worth it. When I asked her what she meant she said I had a long road ahead.
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I kind of realised at this point I'd have to break through the co-worker stuff, and I at least made a meaningful stride.

At one point J asked me if I was frustrated, I said not at all and that I knew it wasn't going to be easy when I started chasing her, and she replied that she was never going to make it easy.

So, anyway, long story short (well, not really short): We are meeting Thursday (basically for coffee but it's more a chocolate place than coffee), and she decided to come to the get together on Saturday.


Not sure what to say really, all in all, I figure I am at the point of no return now and there isn't any reason I should think long about whether or not J is worth whatever it's about to take. I'm already so much more at ease now the confusion and total uncertainty is gone, I don't feel as if I'd be in a bad way if it didn't work out - I'd probably feel worse if I gave up at this point without giving it a good go, regret and all that.

I'll drop an update after Thursday night I guess.

And thank you again to everyone in the thread, whether or not the advice given helped with J, it certainly helped me, having some meaningful back and fourth, venting, and people rightly dragging me back in to reality was just what I needed to stay somewhat sane.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

First of, congratulations on things turning out better than you expected

Secondly...

This is kind of in the vein of "Coming on too strong", but I think you are being a little too obsessive over the idea of her. I'm not saying this for the sake of "You're putting her off", I'm saying it in the interest of maybe you rushed a little too much ahead of yourself here and I hope you're not going to drive yourself insane over it (Not literally insane, just stressed to all hell).

You said you were infatuated with her straight from when you met her, which makes me wonder if your feelings for her might be a little superficial. Not even just being based on appearance though, just from the way you're telling it:

- You thought that she was out of your league
- You lost weight, and started looking better
- She flirts with you, giving some hope that this person who you thought was beyond you might actually have some interest

So far you haven't said all that much about why you like her, beyond finding her attractive. As well, your interactions with her so far seem to be very much based around flirting or trying to get her to like you. I suppose what I'm wondering here is are you're feelings for her really reflective of her as a person? Or are they more tied to this idea you got at the outset of a great girl who's probably out of your league? Most of what you said about how you like her came from the outset, if she's really worth pursuing for a relationship you should be finding you like her more as you started talking to her. How much has your opinion of her changed as you got to know her?

I'm not trying to judge you, or even say that you shouldn't be interested in her, just from what you've said so far it doesn't seem like you're really trying to decide whether or not you like her and are more obsessed with an idea than anything else. I've seen this plenty of times, and even if you do start dating it gives her a lot more power in the relationship than you do, which can cause lots of problems down the road. I've both been on the obsessive side and witnessed others in it, it's not an enviable position to be in.

All I'm suggesting, is try to cool down and relax about her. You'll come on less strong (as people have already suggested), you'll be able to decide a lot more clearly whether you actually like her, and you'll rack up far less stress along the way.

(Big disclaimer, I'm just judging off of what you said in your OP. You said that you tried to make it brief so some of the things that I noted as absent might very well have been absent for a reason. Feel free to disregard me if none of this sounds right)

 

[JayRPG]

When my boss said that "J likes boys" she was being more literal than I realised, J likes boys not men

I may have missed something - what do you mean?

Edit: Ah, I think I get it, like 'bois' (plural of 'boi') like Avril Lavigne's Sk8er Boi. Or am I still not getting it?

Like way, way back when I first asked my boss about J she said that she likes boys, I took that to mean that she likes sleeping around (as in she likes boys plural) but apparently what she meant was she likes boys (as in appearance, personality etc) - It helps that I am a bit of a babyface, and still get carded even though the drinking age is 18 here and I am 23 turning 24.

What wasn't helping at the very start was me trying to act like an 'Alpha', or a 'smooth talker'. She preferred the embarrassing immature crush thing I accidentally fell in to.

snip

Absolutely can see where you're coming from, and I guess I have neglected to actually say why it is that I like her, there is a part of me that doesn't know why I like her this much though.

It was, at first, looks - it usually is. When I first met her it wasn't so much that I thought she was out of my league, it was that I didn't think I was in anyone's league, I was way overweight even though my friends and family would never just tell it to me straight, at that time I was 6 kgs (13 lbs) over the weight I had decided if I ever reached I'd have to seriously do something about it. So regardless of how this turns out with J, it has been a positive experience because it got my ass motivated.

It didn't take long for it to change from just looks (and essentially sex, it was just that at the very beginning) to everything. I find her hilarious, I like her voice and the way she says certain things, I don't want to go on rambling but suffice it to say that I like pretty much everything about her but even so, I shouldn't have been that involved so early and like I've said before I've never felt like that before so early on, it kind of was like being all the way back in high school or something. It was fucked up, even I know that.

Your suggestion has already been taken on board and applied, everything that happened last night with J was about 98% less manic and full-on than anything that's happened in the past few weeks. I've calmed down and pulled myself back down to my usual level-headed self, there aren't going to be any more outbursts and things like that, I'm not going to proclaim love after 2 dates, I'm really not as crazy as I came off in the thread lol. I'm just going to be honest with her and see where it all goes.

There was obviously a lot missing from my update post last night, but with everything J said, and everything my boss told me, I have a good idea about how I need to act, and what I need to do. The biggest thing is going to be changing her mind from what is currently 'NEVER again with a co-worker'.

 

[Abbyka]

It sounds to me like this girl is very full of herself and thrives on attention. She seems to mention how many guys she's had sex with a lot from what I can understand from your post. But its her behavior that tells me that she's very self involved the most. I've seen girls like this a lot in my lifetime(and guys, it happens both ways). You're basically just an ego boost for her and nothing more. This is why she only contacts you every so often and almost always when drunk. You might not even be the only guy she's doing it to, for that matter. Having known people who act like this I think it's safe to say she probably doesn't even want to be in a relationship at this point. She likes to have fun and have her options open.

Hun, you deserve better. She would probably do this regardless of your personality, charm, looks, or anything you said. Hell, I dated a guy very much like this and it was pure hell. She is playing games and you really should quit to stop feeding into it now. You may think you're saying things that make her uncomfortable but from the sound of it she's enjoying it a little too much, and not in the way you're hoping for. Like I said, you're just boosting her ego and nothing more. I would stop paying attention to her. Not worth it and you can find someone else who legitimately wants a relationship and enjoys the attention not because it's feeding their ego but because it's coming from you.

 

[JayRPG]

snip

I've been thinking pretty much everything you've been saying for a lot of the time all this has been going on.

But, there is a pretty big update to the whole situation, and it seems even more confusing than that to be honest haha.

Ok so, like I said in my last big update post we were going for coffee on Thursday then had a party on Saturday we were both going to.

Coffee Thursday went well.. quite well, in fact, we did actually kiss - Which I didn't see coming to be completely honest. Still kept it pretty cool/mild afterwards though, then Saturday rolls around and a few hours before the party I just casually asked her if she needed anything for the party, she said no and also that she'd be a little bit late to the party because she had a terrible day - I didn't go overboard, just a nice/kind message back and then a see you later.

When I got to the party I asked my boss if she knew what happened and pretty much the worse possible thing (for me) happened... The guy from the other store she had a really bad experience with just happened to be back in town (he moved quite a long way away for other work, doesn't work for the company anymore, I actually know him but he is an acquaintance at best, he was down visiting family) and he went into her store. I didn't press for details on what actually happened but I can only assume it was bad.

I assumed straight away that this was bad for me, I've been trying to convince her the co-worker thing isn't an issue and then the entire reason she thinks it is an issue just trounced in out of no where. I decided to switch approaches for the night, and not press too hard for anything, actually just acted more sweet than anything, made her laugh a few times and she left smiling more than when she turned up. Neither of us drunk any alcohol which makes this next bit confusing in the context of it all:

She messaged me after the party and said "You were pretty tame tonight haha", I basically just said that I did promise nobody at work would find out about anything (other than my boss of course) and that she said she had a terrible day so I thought she needed more sweet than anything else, and she said she did need sweet and she ended with "I could kiss you right now" before falling asleep.

The next few days were very casual, and after reading lots and lots about commitment-phobes and other types I thought she was, plus what people with crushes do completely wrong, I kind of figured that I definitely was not saying anything to her (really, maybe how was your day or whatever) because I was so scared of saying something that would completely push her away and 'end the dream', as long as she hadn't outright rejected me there was still a chance in my brain, so yeah.. that was kind of an epiphany moment for me and after waking up to myself I just said it to her. There were some long exchanges, I reassured her the best I could about the co-worker situation, about not needing a solid commitment from her, not wanting to change who she is and I was sincere... I don't want her to move in with me and get married after the second date, I'd be perfectly happy with a casual thing just as long as I'd get to spend some time with her.

After several big pushes she eventually said she just can't get passed the co-worker situation, I went all out and took the risk knowing there was an 80% chance of failure and a 19% chance of total failure and offered to quit if that was all that was holding her back - After she said she doesn't do this kind of thing and that that offer made her uncomfortable I backtracked quit successfully and chalked it up to having no regrets and not taking every chance. I then sent a brief but nice message telling her to stay beautiful and never change and that I get it and won't chase her anymore.

She sent back an even longer message, lots of reassurances she did actually love talking to me and that it was fun but since the incident she kept the co-worker rule up and it's worked for her, she also said don't think that she never thought about it and that I was 'very close' to changing her mind a few times, even if it was just to try it.

I ended quite cool, didn't freak out about her telling me I was very close, I said that the rule has worked for her because it filters out the baddies, but I was never a baddie to begin with so breaking a rule or 2 would have worked just as well, then a little line about the kiss, and then a see you around.

So that's it, right? I certainly thought so, I can't say I didn't feel a little sad that night, but not overwhelming so, I didn't cry or anything like that, I was pretty content with it all. I just figured, oh well, I took the chance, it didn't pan out, I'll live. I've lost a crap ton of weight because of this whole experience and my confidence has only grown, and that was it, it was over to my knowledge.

Of course I couldn't just completely forget about her over night and the next day I just clicked in to the message box.. and she'd re-read the messages 2:30am, then she re-read them again at 6pm when I checked later, then she re-read them again at midnight, then she re-read them again at 8am, then she re-read them again 6pm, and as of right now (1am) she re-read them again just after midnight. I haven't sent her a thing since the see you around 3 nights ago. She instantly likes every photo I put up on instagram, seconds after I post anything, and previous to this she never liked or commented on a thing I put up, she instantly likes every facebook status and photo, again, seconds after I post it.

I'm going to ask my boss if she can find out what is going on... I can't figure out if J is trying to get me to crack, or if she actually wants me to message her, or if she is just teasing me, and what her motivations are behind it. Like I was 110% sure EVERYTHING was over, the flirting, the sexting, any prospect of more physical interaction, and that that was what she wanted and now I just don't know.

It's certainly weird behaviour for someone who just wanted attention, fairly sure she could have an orderly line formed if she just wanted that, why the sudden shift in behaviour from her? from not really paying attention to what I did on social media as to not arouse suspicion to jumping on everything I put up like a drunken prom date.. and the re-reading of the messages, I could understand once or twice but 6 times in less than 3 days?. The midnight ones are particularly interesting too, because I have come online both times and then a few minutes later she reads them, or at least opens the message box. I can't figure out if A. She is actually re-reading the messages and having second thoughts, B. She is expecting me to message her and opening the message box to make sure it hasn't bugged out, or C. She knows I can see the seen updates and she is trying to make me message her/crack, or D. A jar of almonds.

Anyway, I'm actually not going insane about it like I was about the first situation I made the thread about, I'm more curious than anything, so hopefully my boss can get a better idea about what's going on in her head right now.

J certainly is... an enigma. I'll update the thread when I know more, just know that at this stage I am not actively pursuing her in any way, and that I'm still treating this as over/case closed in my head, it's going to take more than sheer morbid curiousity to make me obsess like I did earlier in this whole scenario.

 

[Abbyka]

Admittedly I didn't read the entire thread when posting because it was really late and I wanted to get my thoughts down on the original post before going to bed. Reading your update just now? I'm still kind of leaning that she just likes the attention. Perhaps she sensed you were about to bail out and that's why she's checking her messages and liking a lot of your posts on social media. But I do have another scenario that is just as realistic, but try not to get your hopes up TOO much about this one.

This second scenario is a little personal for me, so bare with me. Why is it so personal? Because I'm this type of girl I'm going to mention. You mentioned something happened to her with this guy in the past from work. It seems like a huge hang up for her and since it ruined her day so badly she MAY not even be over this guy. Not sure how long ago it happened, but it seems it's not old enough news for her to be over it completely. But she's almost there. Let me explain by using my situation as an example. I dated an abusive guy years ago and I was SO hung up on him that no matter how many times he cheated on me or dumped me I'd wait for him to come back. So when he dumped me, yet again, and someone came along with genuine love for me I rejected him/pushed him away. This guy was persistent though, and I did really like talking to him because he gave me the kind of positive attention I needed and wasn't getting from my relationship. But I wasn't ready. My ex came crawling back and we got back together. This guy gave up at that point but he was ALWAYS in the back of my mind and we remained friends. When my abusive boyfriend finally dumped me off at my mom's house(with our infant son no less) and took off for a little too long it was long enough for me to recover my sanity and I was still thinking about the other guy. So I contacted him. Long story short, we've been married for almost 9 years, he takes care of my son like his own, and we have two kids together that are biologically his.

I'm not saying she's being abused or anything, that's just my situation, but she might just be still hung up on this guy. She either needs to see that it's over for good or be away from him long enough that she can see that she deserves to move on. I don't know her personally, so this could just be reaching for straws. But if this is the case with her you should remain friends with her. The reason she's looking at your inbox could mean that she might be ready to move on soon. I know I looked at emails and messages from my husband before we were together all the time and always looked forward to talking to him. If this relationship with the other guy was even nearly as bad as my own it could mean she's just protecting herself from more heartache as well. Either way, you should wait for her to come to you. She may never be ready to move on. I think it took me a year, maybe two, to start to crack and it was a good three or four months after my ex took off that I even started thinking seriously about contacting my husband.

I don't want to get your hopes up about that, though, so just remain cautiously optimistic. Don't flirt with her anymore, but remain friendly. If she really does just want attention it'll get old fast and she'll stop talking to you. Then you'll know. But if she really is interested but not ready to move on she'll keep talking to you. And if she eventually is ready perhaps she'll come to you. She could just as easily lose interest and just want to be friends, so keep that in mind. Just to be safe, I wouldn't put your life on hold hoping for anything to happen. Date, have fun. My husband tried dating another girl when he'd given up on me and it never stopped me from contacting him when that relationship fell flat. So if she really is interested and you're in between relationships she will jump at the opportunity.

Hope this didn't sound more about me than you, just thought it'd help to mention an example of what could be going on. But without knowing details of the relationship she had with the other guy I really feel it's probably just flailing for another explanation besides her just wanting attention. Which is another reason why you shouldn't get your hopes up. Even you don't know all the details, so it's just a wild theory. So definitely do what you're doing now and move on for now. It wouldn't hurt to play it as if this scenario really is what's going on if you just remain friends and go on dates with other girls. Keep your options open.

 

[JayRPG]

snip

Thank you sincerely for that, it is great to hear about other people's experiences that aren't so 'vanilla', just because life isn't like a 70's movie doesn't mean that a 70's movie couldn't be made about some of the things that happen in our lives!

I don't really know many of the details about what happened with her and this guy, but I always got the impression (with the few details that have dropped here and there from J and my boss) that it wasn't an abusive relationship, it just ended badly, as in when it was over he became a little vindictive and made it very hard for her at work. It was over a year ago now, and my boss has always asserted it wasn't that serious of a relationship. My best guess used to be that they were seeing each other casually, he wanted more and she didn't, he is the type of guy to take rejection really badly (or at least that's the impression I got from him on the occasions I've met him).

Still, they are only my guesses and assumptions, I don't have concrete evidence to back up any of it and it could just as easily be closer to your scenario. I will try and get some more info on what actually happened in addition to whatever else my boss can get out of her about what's going on now.

About the first bit you said though, about sensing me bailing out and that's why she's checking her messages and acting weird (well, a different kind of weird than before) - I'd be surprised if she didn't think I was bailing out, I thought we both had that understanding when I said I wouldn't be chasing her any more, I pushed, I failed, I moved on.. at least that is how I saw it. Which is why it, at the very least, seems like odd behaviour for someone who just wants attention.. could my specific attention have been that good?

She isn't a 10/10 for most guys out there, you could say she is just my type and my type is often seen as at odds with the majority, but with her job essentially being video game saleswoman she isn't exactly struggling to find attention.

 

[Abbyka]

If it's an attention thing then checking your messages could just be a way to tempt you back in. There are women out there that do like stringing guys along, it happens(heck the girl my husband dated before we got together strung him along from what I understand, but that's his story to tell not mine). And some women can NEVER get enough attention. I've heard some friends of my own laughing about how many guys they have fawning over them that they never intend on dating. It's like how some people like to tally up how many sex partners they've had. There are men and women out there that tally up how many hearts they can break/string along. My ex was both of these, actually. For some people it's a game to see if they can push you away and pull you back in. Not trying to get you to expect the worst from her, just explain that it's a possibility even if she seems to have all the attention you think she needs.

Even if this isn't the case it seems like you could easily get hurt in the end. Yes, there could still be a chance, but the chances your heart will be crushed is greater than the chance she could finally give a relationship a chance. If that risk is worth it just brace yourself. Love is a hell of a thing and can be so much more damaging than any physical wound if you give it to the wrong person blindly or in haste. It already seems pretty complicated, so proceed slowly(by just being friends for now, giving her space, everything I mentioned in previous post, etc) and don't put your heart all in yet.

 

[JayRPG]

snip

Sound advice, and already the stance I was/am taking.

Like I said, it's just curiousity at the moment, it is over to me, whatever it was. I don't intend on folding and messaging her first, just in case that is what she is trying to get me to do.

I'm just going to sit back, see if I can get some more info from my boss, do my own thing, and if she messages me first I'll have a better idea of what could be going on, if she doesn't message me then nothing really changes from where I'm at now.

Only posted the update to not leave the thread hanging (if anyone is still following it), and possibly to see if I could get any ideas about what to expect next but I've learned several times already that just about nothing me or anyone has expected has been the case, we've eliminated a lot of things but there are still so many cards on the table haha.

Thanks for the posts

 

[JayRPG]

snip

Good lord she messaged me first.

"You should get snapchat" - J
"I feel we'd be good snapchat buddies" - J

 

[Abbyka]

snip

I wouldn't read too much into that for now. Answer how you would anyone else asking you to snap chat. If you hate the idea then say so, just remain friendly.

 

[JayRPG]

Tell her you're in a committed relationship with WhatsApp.

Hahahahahaha, oh my god, I can't believe I missed this opportunity.

snip

I wouldn't read too much into that for now. Answer how you would anyone else asking you to snap chat. If you hate the idea then say so, just remain friendly.

Ok, so, now I'm almost 99% sure I'm just there when she's bored and/or drunk. It wouldn't be hard to imagine what her first snap to me was (at only 3 seconds to deter screencapping), and I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to imagine what ensued. Then days without talking, and then a night of 'fun texting' again tonight.

My boss seems to think that if we were ever drunk together (or if she were drunk around me in person) we would most probably fuck, and honestly, even if I were stone cold sober I don't think I'd be able to turn it down (even though the responsible person in me would say no due to her state of mind) but I'm unlikely to get any further than that - maybe a repeat performance/s if the experience were to be enjoyable for her.