Would it be better to switch back to cartridges?

[shadowedge]

I just thought of something:

Would it make sense to switch back to cartridges instead of Blu-Ray/DVD/Wii-U discs for gaming? Cartridges, with flash memory can already surpass that of Blu-Ray in terms of storage data and the load times will be almost non existent. Gone are the days of the N64 vs PSX, when discs could hold so much more than cartridges. Also it would partially eliminate the need to download part of the game to the hard drive since the read time is so much better.

Granted I can't see physical media lasting longer than a console generation or two, considering the benefits and prevalence of digital downloads, but it is still a thought.

Perhaps a new theoretical console could have an cartridge slot for the main games, and an internal hard drive for general storage as well as game updates. Alternatively, make the cartridge both readable and writable so one could just update the game on the cartridge. If not flash memory, then regular ROM cartridges could work too if it was somehow rewritable.

What do you think? The only con that I can think of is higher costs since flash memory is more expensive than discs. Then again 3DS cartridges are cheaper than DVD based games and it can hold more data. The 3DS carts can hold up to 8GB of data vs the 360's DVD's that hold 4.7GB-8.5GB depending on if it is dual layer or not..

 

[hazabaza1]

Nah.
Discs save a lot of space and there's so much digital stuff going on it just seems silly.

 

[Tuesday Night Fever]

I actually prefer having physical copies of games, so if a cartridge could prove itself as being superior to a disk, I would have no real problem with that as long as the price is reasonable.

 

[shadowedge]

I actually prefer having physical copies of games, so if a cartridge could prove itself as being superior to a disk, I would have no real problem with that as long as the price is reasonable.

Cartridges are more durable than discs. Plus they do not have to be huge, as most of the size is the plastic case. The carts could be half the size of a Genesis cartridge and still be fine.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

I would be in favor of returning to carts for a while but I think the OP and I are in the minority there. I actually consider the 3/DS format to be a variation on the cartridge so there's that. As for durability I have carts for the NES that still work perfectly whereas I've given up trying to buy used disc-based games if the store doesn't have their own means of resurfacing/repairing those discs.

 

[Jason Rayes]

No, not really. Part of the reason I bought my PS3 was because it doubles as a Blu-Ray player. I also use it to listen to music and watch DVD's. I like that modern devices work as a media center. I think switching to an outdated storage medium would be a step backwards.

 

[Mr.Mattress]

Dude, I would love for someone to go back to Cartridges! As long as they can still play DVD's, I'd be completely happy with a video game system that uses Carts as it's main format.

 

[The Abhorrent]

Just a crazy thought here, but somewhat interesting if you think about it.

Cartridges are far less susceptible to piracy than discs.

Not a perfect solution to that particular problem, but it could avert many issues rather handily. If the console developer was willing to go as far as creating their own interface/slot/whatever for the flash drives or mini-SSD (which I imagine an "cartridge" would actually be), pirating the game would be rather inconvenient.

Unfortunately, the presence of hard-drives does throw a wrench into that idea; particularly since DLC is a very prominent part of the current gaming market, and that's wholly dependent on the fact consoles have hard-drives (and being connected to the internet, but that's just the method of delivery). The only work-around for this is to allow for the "cartridge" or mini-SSD to be updated with the DLC, directly installing the data onto the "cartridge"; by extension, save files could be on the "cartridge" once again (and the number of slots could be quite generous, unlike before).

However, this could lead to more issues:
- The game resale market gets an indirect boost (no online passes, more robust game data, etc.), which publishers aren't fond of.
- DLC, while still possible, isn't as valuable; DLC is more freely transferred between players as it's now attached to the cartridge itself.
- Will probably be more expensive to produce (and therefore, more expensive to buy), at least if you go with the mini-SSD route (which is essentially just being it's own hard-drive); games may have to resort to "go big or go home" design (small and/or short games would be harshly scrutinized, games would have to be longer and better to be worth the extra cost), and games which bomb would do so much more dramatically.


Some food for thought, however.

---

To answer the general question, I see no real issue moving back to cartridges.

The shift to discs was mostly motivated by the volume of data they could hold, and the issue of save data moved to hard-drives (or little save cards on the PS1, PS2, and GC; but those were essentially early flash-drives). Cheaper production costs may have also been a factor, as a disc is obviously cheaper than any cartridge (or flash drive for that matter). The technology for "cartridges" has caught up in the data department, and still does hold a few advantages (shorter load times, less convenient for pirates, and so on).

But there will be no way around the extra cost of the "cartridge" (regardless of what it actually is), ever. I'm not concerned financially, so I wouldn't have issues paying a bit extra for games... but that doesn't apply to everyone, which means investors won't be so quick to throw their money into any potential projects. This could lead to tighter quality control on games (not too bad), but the definite loss in volume of games being made would almost certainly make the industry less lucrative; as such, games would have to both bigger projects but would have a much harder time getting the funding/investors they need to do that.

 

[PinkiePyro]

cartridges are harder to damage
for that reason alone I would not mind switching back

 

[Nieroshai]

Well, Sony's trying that experiment with the Vita. We shall see in hindsight how that pans out. Little chips are so hard to lose though.

 

[TheSteeleStrap]

Other than that problem with the 360 of breaking the disc when the console moves (really guys? Is this that hard to fix?) I don't mind discs; I don't have to blow on them.

 

[sammysoso]

Unless you want a price increase, I wouldn't advise it.

Cartridges are more expensive to produce, remember, there were older titles costing more than $60.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Unless you want a price increase, I wouldn't advise it.

Cartridges are more expensive to produce, remember, there were older titles costing more than $60.

Yup. And even the $60 ones only cost that much because ROM chips were (and are) expensive. It's pretty much the only reason games cost what they do today -- people got used to high prices back when they were actually justified, and the publishers never had any real reason to move away from that.

As for SD cards and the like that can hold more data than a Bluray disc, while these exist, they're a lot more expensive per gigabyte than a Blu-Ray disc. It's more economically feasible to just press two discs on a game that goes over the 50 gig limit than it is to make a big flash chip.

 

[Occams_Razor]

Ya, I think right now the cost per gigabyte is still fairly high, especially when you're looking at cards with a high transfer rate, which is what you'll need for gaming. There are certainly some advantages, but I'm not positive they'd outweigh the costs.

Especially since to do so, a console producer would have to commit the cardinal sin that always seems to get them thrown under the bus. Thou Shall Not Create a Non Backwards Compatible System.

 

[Risingblade]

Stop coming up with ideas that hurt my wallet!

 

[Johann610]

Four reasons why not. First, cartridges encourage data compression, and data UN-compression is a lengthy process. SNES titles like Batman [loading] Forever and Mickey [looks at his watch] Mania show how awful this can get. Second, cartridges take manufacturers' time, and in an era when games are getting MORE expensive, tacking on the added expense of cartridges doesn't feel right. Third, I can stack disks in about ten different storage cases around my house, but cartridges need a bookshelf where you can see the end labels. Oh, NO end labels? You want me to be able to NOT flip through and see what I have? Pass. Fourth, Cartridge readers are typically MADE to be blown out and swabbed with alcohol, and the need to do so just got tedious for me--I bought TWO N64s because I thought the machines were busted, only to learn they'd made the contacts out of pop-metal tin.
Anything else? Oh yeah. Cartridges are NOT backwards compatible. Every generation of Game Boy has a different game slot, and they'll never make adapters for it. I don't KNOW where my PS1 even is, but I can still play some Chrono Cross whenever I choose.

 

[l0ckd0wn]

I skipped all the replies because they all seem to focus on the physical medium.

I want to point out that games are software. Software can be changed, and on the fly for that matter. It's the reason why you put a game in your XBox or PS3 and get updates from the internet.

Using a cartridge will increase the costs while providing no tangible benefit for either gamers or the developers, let alone may give publishers more reason to jack prices up further.

I don't understand how a bunch of gaming nerds could ignore the fact that our games can very easily be updated and patched, even after we've removed the disc... or cartridge for that matter.

snip

I just want to point out that data compression isn't a necessity with the advent of super-cheap flash technology.

Agreed with most everything else, even if it's DVD vs cartridge.

 

[Saulkar]

Well, if they manage to bring the production prices down enough so that a reasonably sized and durable flashdrive/cartridge can be manufactured without having an impact on the price of the games themselves then I am all for it given their loading times and security.

 

[SlaveNumber23]

I would be all in favor of switching back to cartridges, they're much easier to keep in good condition. It baffles me why CD and DVD technology became so popular when a couple of well placed scratches can easily ruin them. I don't know too much about the advantages of either but as far as I can tell, going back to cartridges would be awesome.

 

[Zenn3k]

I just thought of something:

Would it make sense to switch back to cartridges instead of Blu-Ray/DVD/Wii-U discs for gaming? Cartridges, with flash memory can already surpass that of Blu-Ray in terms of storage data and the load times will be almost non existent. Gone are the days of the N64 vs PSX, when discs could hold so much more than cartridges. Also it would partially eliminate the need to download part of the game to the hard drive since the read time is so much better.

Granted I can't see physical media lasting longer than a console generation or two, considering the benefits and prevalence of digital downloads, but it is still a thought.

Perhaps a new theoretical console could have an cartridge slot for the main games, and an internal hard drive for general storage as well as game updates. Alternatively, make the cartridge both readable and writable so one could just update the game on the cartridge. If not flash memory, then regular ROM cartridges could work too if it was somehow rewritable.

What do you think? The only con that I can think of is higher costs since flash memory is more expensive than discs. Then again 3DS cartridges are cheaper than DVD based games and it can hold more data. The 3DS carts can hold up to 8GB of data vs the 360's DVD's that hold 4.7GB-8.5GB depending on if it is dual layer or not..

No, simply because of cost.

Its MUCH cheaper to print on discs than to print carts. Flash memory is slightly more expensive than carts as well.

A single DVD costs roughly 4 cents to make and print, when its all said and done. Compare that to even a modest $40 per 8 GB of flash memory.

Games would cost $100 each, at least, just to break even on the cost use the cart in the first place. I don't think people are much interested in paying $100+ for a copy of a game.

I'm sure development costs on 3DS games are much lower than your typical XBOX 360 title, which is why they can get away with selling those cheaper.