Would someone like Skyrim/Oblivion if they loved Bioshock? (EDITED TITLE)

[geK0]

How can you like Pizza when you also like chocolate!?! they're completely different!

 

[SwimmingRock]

Would I like diapers if I loved bananas?

I'm not sure what it says about me that my first thought was:"Diapers and bananas? He must be into some really kinky sex thing." Probably nothing good.

OT: I can't guarantee anything, but it's certainly possible. I like both and my one gamer friend who loved Morrowind and Oblivion also thought Bioshock was awesome whereas my friend who won't even try TES, because he's sure he'd hate it, also hated Bioshock. But, really, this is anecdotal at best.

 

[Treblaine]

But Bioshock has, like 3 enimies, how can you say Skyrim and Oblivion lack variety?

Hmm,
(1) the thuggish with their melee focus
(2) leadheads with firearms focus
(3) nitro splicer throwing bombs and setting traps
(4) Houdini splicers would could turn invisible
(5) spider splicers who were extremely agile and stealthy
(6) Rosie Big Daddy with super-powerful rivet gun and bombs
(7) Bouncer Big Daddy with that massive god damn drill
(8) Security bots and I guess the many sentries as well
(9) (following categories added to bioshock 2) Rumbler Big Daddy
(10) Brute splicer, a charging tank of a splicer
(11) Big Sister
(12) Alpha series

Within each of these there is huge variation in skill, aggressiveness and health as well as some special attacks, but each is a distinct category requiring a completely different approach to attack and defence.

As far as I know most of the enemies in Oblivion are more or less the same size and speed and attack by running up to you and hitting you. Unless I am mistaken, are there enemies you must set traps for, retreat and hide from, hunt down, try to flank and use cover, engage and dodge like a bull-fighter/matadore, snipe carefully from a distance or some variation like that. Because that is what Bioshock offers.

Sometimes I wonder if all Bioshock's depth is completely ignored by the wider gaming community: the research element in particular as an alternative to just XP levelling up.

 

[Treblaine]

This reminds me of one of my favorite jokes:

Q: What's the difference between an orange?
A: Cows don't have radar.

The two games are each good, though I wouldn't really compare them. Oblivion/Skyrim are a lot more sandbox (fuck it, they're the freaking desert), so there is a lot more room for customization.

I'm not asking if one is better. Skyrim is obviously good from the review scores and fan following.

I'm just wondering if it will suit my TASTES! I appreciate there is really good whiskey out there, but I still hate whiskey!

 

[M4t3us]

And then there is the design... they don't seem all that compelling to me. Nothing like the art-deco steam-punk/diesel-punk stylings, the retro-mutant gangster foes, the cultist maniacs, those Big Daddies and the cockney brutes.

You mean the parts they ripped off of Fallout?

 

[Altorin]

Are the bugs a feature of Bethesda games?)

Oh yes! I'm surprised they don't mention it on the box. "Now with more amusing bugs!"

yesterday in the distance a mammoth launched itself 20 storys into the air randomly. It was quite the funny moment.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Skyrim's combat system is a bit like BioShock 2's.

...that's where the similarities end. I hated BioShock and love TES, if that's any help.

roughly this.

the combat is the only thing that is even REMTOELY similar, so i really don't see how they are comparable...

but nonetheless, i hated bioshock also, but am loving every second of skyrim i play..so i guess it depends.

 

[Treblaine]

You do find messages in the form of books, notes, memoirs, etc., and they're all over the place in both games.

Yeah, but of what? Bioshock had stories of experimentation and politics of Rapture.

Is there anything interesting to read or hear about from the people of Tamriel?

The enemy variety in Oblivion isn't great at first because of scaled leveling, but higher levels introduce larger and more ferocious enemies. Skyrim has a much better variety of enemies that have different tactics, though "backpedaling while taking healing potions" is a tactic that's often been used. Overall, the combat is much, much better in Skyrim but it still isn't the reason you're there. It's fun, but still a bit clumsy at times. The enemies are not a reskin and health buff, unless you count bandits, imperials, and other human-ish creatures. Some examples of things to fight: Trolls, dragons, mudcrabs, wolves, guards, bandits, gollum-ish creatures, Necromancers, ghosts, shades, draugrs (zombies with sword and magic knowledge), skeletons, and more. They do share some characteristics but, for the most part, they're different.

But my question is, In Oblivion do they all fight by running up to you and hitting you? What variety is there in combat?

Like for example:
-Arrow shooting high-velocity low-damage projectiles, weak up close
-Ghouls launching low-velocity, high-damage fireballs, deadly but slow up close
-massed weak enemies swarming melee
-very slow but tough enemy needs focus and trap to defeat without being smooshed.

That's variety. That's why I love the early sprite based games as they had such limited visual repertoire they were forced to differentiate enemies by their mode of attack and movement. Like Doom's Imps with their slow but long range fireballs vs shotgunners short range high power.

Question about scaled levelling: is the levelling based on your game progress like how deeper dungeons have tougher enemies, or is it a case of "+10 sword damage = +10 health to every enemy" wherever or whenever you are in the game!

 

[Treblaine]

And then there is the design... they don't seem all that compelling to me. Nothing like the art-deco steam-punk/diesel-punk stylings, the retro-mutant gangster foes, the cultist maniacs, those Big Daddies and the cockney brutes.

You mean the parts they ripped off of Fallout?

Hmm, are you saying Fallout invented Art Deco style [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_deco]?

Are you saying Fallout invented Dieselpunk [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieselpunk] and somehow own it solely?

Are you saying Fallout invented the diving suit? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diving_suit]

That Fallout had slick-talkin' tommy-gun toting gangsters who were mutated willingly through out of control self genetic-modification? Rather than through radiation?

That Fallout is the exact opposite story from Bioshock, Fallout is a person leaving an artificial enclosed and stable environment into the outside world that has gone to hell, while Bioshock is a person leaving the normal stable world to an artificial enclosed environment that has gone to hell.

So so very different and distinct.

 

[Brutal Peanut]

The two are hardly comparable, but I enjoyed both Bioshock and Bioshock 2 and I adore Skyrim. Then again, I've always been a fan of the The Elder Scrolls series. So,...serendipity? I don't know, this question is haaaaard because I am so tired. My advice, is to probably pay the 6 to 8 dollars (they had a sale going the last time I checked) for Oblivion on Steam and just play through that once or twice. If you liked Oblivion, you'll probably enjoy Skyrim to the same extent, if not more.

Edit: Or,..did you enjoy Fallout 3 and New Vegas? Hm? Sandboxy-is-ness....time for bed.

 

[shrekfan246]

Yeah, but of what? Bioshock had stories of experimentation and politics of Rapture.

Is there anything interesting to read or hear about from the people of Tamriel?

Books found around Skyrim cover topics ranging from ancient history to the downfall and rise of nations, how to conquer enemies or improve skills, journals detailing plans to kill or trick people, and even "The Lusty Argonian Maid".

But my question is, In Oblivion do they all fight by running up to you and hitting you? What variety is there in combat?

Like for example:
-Arrow shooting high-velocity low-damage projectiles, weak up close
-Ghouls launching low-velocity, high-damage fireballs, deadly but slow up close
-massed weak enemies swarming melee
-very slow but tough enemy needs focus and trap to defeat without being smooshed.

That's variety. That's why I love the early sprite based games as they had such limited visual repertoire they were forced to differentiate enemies by their mode of attack and movement. Like Doom's Imps with their slow but long range fireballs vs shotgunners short range high power.

Question about scaled levelling: is the levelling based on your game progress like how deeper dungeons have tougher enemies, or is it a case of "+10 sword damage = +10 health to every enemy" wherever or whenever you are in the game!

I can't speak for Oblivion, but in Skyrim there are:
Bears and sabre cats - Very powerful, very fast melee opponents likely to kill you one-on-one at the start of the game but get easier as you level up and improve armor and weapons.

Bandits/Mercenaries/Forswarn/Undead - Come in mostly three flavors: Melee, archers, and mages of varying power. Melee will use two one-handers or a two-hander most often, two-handed wielders you typically want to dodge because they do a lot of damage. Mages also come in many varieties, from straight up casters who damage health, to ones who damage health+stamina or health+magicka, ones who shield themselves from magick attacks, ones who summon skeletons or elementals to help them, and ones who will try to run away to heal before re-engaging you.

Giants (and Mammoth by proxy) - Very large, very dangerous, and moderately fast melee enemies likely to kill you with one hit if you're in melee range until you've gotten very good gear. You can conquer them with strategy at low levels, typically by hitting them with ranged attacks while running to and from places they can't reach you at.

Trolls - Also large and fast, not quite as dangerous as giants but do have specific weaknesses you can exploit.

Dragons - They scale to your level most of the time, most are pretty easy depending on how you've leveled. There are some that will stay out of your melee range a lot, though, making you rethink your attack strategy on the spot so you can slay it.

Dragon Priests - Pretty much boss forms of undead mages, very hard to kill especially as a melee-focused character. I've only fought one, but I only beat him because of a friendly bug that got him stuck below a small cliff so I could shoot him with arrows while avoiding his fireballs.

I'm probably missing a few as well, but those are the basics.

 

[Treblaine]

The two are hardly comparable, but I enjoyed both Bioshock and Bioshock 2 and I adore Skyrim. Then again, I've always been a fan of the The Elder Scrolls series. So,...serendipity? I don't know, this question is haaaaard because I am so tired. My advice, is to probably pay the 6 to 8 dollars (they had a sale going the last time I checked) for Oblivion on Steam and just play through that once or twice. If you liked Oblivion, you'll probably enjoy Skyrim to the same extent, if not more.

Edit: Or,..did you enjoy Fallout 3 and New Vegas? Hm? Sandboxy-is-ness....time for bed.

Why aren't they comparable? Especially with Bioshock's plasmids that are pretty much magic! OK, do the guns really change that much?

Again, I haven't played any TES games, nor Fallout 3+ games. Hmm, I guess I always got scared off Bethesda from all the bugginess and just how stiff the games seem.

PS: I've actually bought Oblivion in a sale already, I just had to clear my hard drive so now I have space to install it but there are other games as candidates. It's not a competition, but I realise I've bought more games than I could possibly play, so I need to prioritise.

 

[M4t3us]

And then there is the design... they don't seem all that compelling to me. Nothing like the art-deco steam-punk/diesel-punk stylings, the retro-mutant gangster foes, the cultist maniacs, those Big Daddies and the cockney brutes.

You mean the parts they ripped off of Fallout?

Hmm, are you saying Fallout invented Art Deco style [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_deco]?

Are you saying Fallout invented Dieselpunk [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieselpunk] and somehow own it solely?

Are you saying Fallout invented the diving suit? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diving_suit]

That Fallout had slick-talkin' tommy-gun toting gangsters who were mutated willingly through out of control self genetic-modification? Rather than through radiation?

That Fallout is the exact opposite story from Bioshock, Fallout is a person leaving an artificial enclosed and stable environment into the outside world that has gone to hell, while Bioshock is a person leaving the normal stable world to an artificial enclosed environment that has gone to hell.

So so very different and distinct.

I'm not saying Fallout invented it... mostly I find it hard for a video game to invent anything due to the lack of thumbs and a sentient mind.

But, yes, it was one of (if not) the first successful game (series) to rely heavily on it... yes!

And I believe this one deserves special attention:

That Fallout had slick-talkin' tommy-gun toting gangsters who were mutated willingly through out of control self genetic-modification? Rather than through radiation?

Frank Horrigan [http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Frank_Horrigan]... And how exaclty does a "willing out of control self genetic mutation" make any sense? And how is a spliced mutant any different than any other mutant in the eyes of the protagonist, assuming both are trying to kill you? "Oh I'm sorry, you did it to yourself! You deserve to die because you're trying to kill me!" "Oh you were exposed to a ungodly amount of radiation I'm sorry, but I must kill you because you're trying to kill me!!" "Oh you were dumped in FEV... that bites but I still have to kill you because you're trying to kill me!"

That's like racism in an entirely hostile way! See what I did there? ^.^

 

[Treblaine]

mostly I find it hard for a video game to invent anything due to the lack of thumbs and a sentient mind.

This sort of pedantic crap gives me migraines.

You know what I mean by "fallout invented" I mean "the people who made Fallout were responsible for".

As in the idiom "Simpsons already did it" even if semantically one should say "The team of writers and other creative talent who made The Simpsons did that first in an Episode of the Simpsons".

 

[M4t3us]

This sort of pedantic crap gives me migraines.

You know what I mean by "fallout invented" I mean "the people who made Fallout were responsible for".

As in the idiom "Simpsons already did it" even if semantically one should say "The team of writers and other creative talent who made The Simpsons did that first in an Episode of the Simpsons".

For the record: I did not diminish your opinion in any way!

Also, if you can't read the sarcasm in my posts I apologize, but I do it often!

 

[Treblaine]

This sort of pedantic crap gives me migraines.

You know what I mean by "fallout invented" I mean "the people who made Fallout were responsible for".

As in the idiom "Simpsons already did it" even if semantically one should say "The team of writers and other creative talent who made The Simpsons did that first in an Episode of the Simpsons".

For the record: I did not diminish your opinion in any way!

Also, if you can't read the sarcasm in my posts I apologize, but I do it often!

Note for internet, never ever try sarcasm without a mark like this:

"[/sarc]" or "[/sarcasm]" without the quotation marks. Sarcasm does not work in prose.

That Fallout had slick-talkin' tommy-gun toting gangsters who were mutated willingly through out of control self genetic-modification? Rather than through radiation?

Frank Horrigan [http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Frank_Horrigan]

... And how exaclty does a "willing out of control self genetic mutation" make any sense?

And how is a spliced mutant any different than any other mutant in the eyes of the protagonist, assuming both are trying to kill you? "Oh I'm sorry, you did it to yourself! You deserve to die because you're trying to kill me!" "Oh you were exposed to a ungodly amount of radiation I'm sorry, but I must kill you because you're trying to kill me!!" "Oh you were dumped in FEV... that bites but I still have to kill you because you're trying to kill me!"

That's like racism in an entirely hostile way! See what I did there? ^.^

OK, so one character has deliberate genetic modification through poorly explained means along with extraordinary expensive and specialist mechanical augmentation he is more machine than man. Is that really a progenitor for splicers? Really? I don't think this is the first time in fiction the single big bad guy has dabbled in bio-mechanics* and genetic modification to be tougher, but it doesn't change their character (they were always the psychos they were and they're a special case). It's not like a drug-addiction, an addiction to power, beauty and "perfection" like the near ubiquitous Plasmid Craze in Rapture.

"Willing out of control"
I of course mean individual willing, yet out of control of any government regulation. Like a drug addict follows their will yet they are "out of control". You've played Bioshock, right? You know what I mean, STOP BEING SO PEDANTIC!

Splicers are different from just some mutant in the same way volunteers are different from conscripted troops. They chose this path not forced by circumstances beyond their control like a radiation cloud rolling through. It becomes a character study of humanity, what people might deliberately transform themselves into given the chance... rather than just silly speculation on what mutations might happen totally at random.

Splicers are crazed and beyond reason but they have not totally lost humanity, they communicate and yell at you in terms of some rationality, not just simplistic zombified "braaaains" but an insight into their paranoia and extremist objectivist views. But there is far more depth to it than I can summarise just here off the top of my head, there are so many little aspects revealed of the people of rapture and also of your own ideals by how you interact with them.

But if all you see is people to kill because they are killing you... well if that's all you want to think about.

(* lol, originally wrote "dabbled in Bi-Mechanics")

 

[Treblaine]

But Bioshock has, like 3 enimies, how can you say Skyrim and Oblivion lack variety?

Hmm,
(1) the thuggish with their melee focus
(2) leadheads with firearms focus
(3) nitro splicer throwing bombs and setting traps
(4) Houdini splicers would could turn invisible
(5) spider splicers who were extremely agile and stealthy
(6) Rosie Big Daddy with super-powerful rivet gun and bombs
(7) Bouncer Big Daddy with that massive god damn drill
(8) Security bots and I guess the many sentries as well
(9) (following categories added to bioshock 2) Rumbler Big Daddy
(10) Brute splicer, a charging tank of a splicer
(11) Big Sister
(12) Alpha series

Splicers - zap, then wrench.
ElectroSplicers - bees, then wrench.
Big Daddies - hurl explosives and hack stuff.

That's all there is to it.

Yeah, but of what? Bioshock had stories of experimentation and politics of Rapture.

Is there anything interesting to read or hear about from the people of Tamriel?

Yeah, hundreds of things. But if you're looking more for Audio Logs... I suggest you play Skyrim. Hell, I suggest you play Skyrim anyway, it's a much better game than the special-needs middle child of Oblivion.

But my question is, In Oblivion do they all fight by running up to you and hitting you? What variety is there in combat?

Like for example:
-Arrow shooting high-velocity low-damage projectiles, weak up close
-Ghouls launching low-velocity, high-damage fireballs, deadly but slow up close
-massed weak enemies swarming melee
-very slow but tough enemy needs focus and trap to defeat without being smooshed.

You just described about half of the enemies. But again, Skyrim is far better and more tactical than Oblivion, where all the combat systems are pretty poor.

That's variety. That's why I love the early sprite based games as they had such limited visual repertoire they were forced to differentiate enemies by their mode of attack and movement. Like Doom's Imps with their slow but long range fireballs vs shotgunners short range high power.

Weird... again, I just thought Shotgun > all in that game.

Question about scaled levelling: is the levelling based on your game progress like how deeper dungeons have tougher enemies, or is it a case of "+10 sword damage = +10 health to every enemy" wherever or whenever you are in the game!

Oblivion is like that, the others aren't. Seriously, DO NOT use Oblivion as your intro to TES. It sucks.

Ah yes, the zap and wrench. But you know there are other ways and there is reason to switch up your ways as you don't have an infinite amount of Eve while in a way there is an infinite number of enemies. There is a time for zap and wrench and there is a time for other methods. Bees are best used when you've lost sight of the enemy and want to home in on them and distract them at the same time.

Considering how often they are in groups where zapping one and running over isn't always an option. Sometimes it's best not to stun but sneak over and boff them as an electro-bolt alerts everyone in earshot.

It's not that easy to just "hurl explosives and hack stuff" to take down a big daddy. Not on the difficulty I played.

You can't trade resources, you have to use what you've got and balance what you'll likely need later. So if out of proxy mines try out the trip-wire, or electro-gel. In close quarters sudden engagements the rapid fire tommy-gun or wide-spread of the shotgun can be preferable as the electo-bolt is so slow firing and narrow which it needs to be frequently "reloaded".

Seriously, DO NOT use Oblivion as your intro to TES. It sucks.

So many mixed messages. You are clear, but others say go for it. Maybe morrowind? I don't give a crap about boxy graphics.