Would you enjoy an RPG more if...

[Azure-Supernova]

I was sitting playing Skyrim today and I started on my fourth character. My other three fall into the three basic classes: Warrior, Mage and Rogue. I'd decided my fourth would be an ambitious but arrogant Dunmer Spellsword. Though despite my imagination being particularly active I just couldn't get into it, having to do the whole starting sequence and be led through the, by now, mind numbing tutorial again.

It's when I thought of two mods. First was the Alternate Start [http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3973] for Oblivion. Upon starting a new game you were offered entry to a number of doors. One would start you off in Chorrol as a well off citizen, another would have you waking homeless on a bedroll in a cave. Instead of being given the Amulet of Kings it could be found on a dead Blade near Weynon Priory and the dialogue was manipulated to remove any mention of your criminal past and the sewer escape. Sure it wouldn't revolutionise your experience in the game, but for roleplay it opened new doors.

Then Fallout 3 Wanderer's Edition [http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2761] took it a step further. I could continue into the game's Vault 101 sequence or 'wake up' and start the game inside a shack where I could fit my character into the lore. I could be a Talon Mercenary which would immediately start me off with negative karma and the attraction of Regulators. Conversely I could start as a Regulator and have the opposite effects. My roleplay choices were expanded with a little nudge. People would still refer to me as the Vault Dweller though.

But what if that capability was built into the game? Dragon Age: Origins took a step in that direction. Sure it was limited, but it gave a little structure to my roleplay, especially in second playthroughs. What if the RPG gave you the option? You can continue with the tutorial as normal or if you've already played through you can have an alternate start. You can start as a Dunmer refugee in Windhelm, seeking to join the Empire to stop the oppression of your people in the city. Or a member of the Whiterun City guard, accidentally discovering their dragon blood outside the Western Watchtower. Afterall, you always thought you might be the Dragonborn, maybe you just didn't know it yet?

And this isn't specific to Skyrim, I just picked it because of what I was currently playing and the story is ambiguous for your origin to not really matter. Or are mods enough? Opinions?

 

[ms_sunlight]

I don't think all that fol-de-rol is necessary (although it could be fun if done well).

I think just having the option to skip the intro / tutorial on second and subsequent playthroughs would be good enough, unless that intro / tutorial section has a good reason for making you play it again (e.g. you make choices that will significantly affect later plot or gameplay). As I recall, KotOR2 let you do this. If the intro / tutorial is just "get through this bit so you can move on to the real gameplay", let us skip it!

 

[Vault101]

hmm yeah interestng

OR much like dragon age orrigins you choose a "pre-set" charachter and can actually encountr other potential player charachters who can be your enemy/freind depending on your choices

 

[Seishisha]

Its an interesting concept and if a new game was in development it'd be nice to see some implementation of such a thing, the main problem being budget and schedule, now lets just say that this idea was given the go ahead then great, but realisticly its cheaper and easier to produce one introduction for a game rather than a whole host of them, as a side note this would fail pretty badly in skyrim, since upon entering the world your instantly given the quest chain for your dragon powers and to be perfectly honest thats kind of a big deal, in terms of gameplay and plot.

 

[WaReloaded]

I'm not opposed to the concept, I think it's quite interesting. In fact, this is the direction I see RPGs heading in the coming years, more decisions and moral choices, and a better environment to develop your own character in.

 

[Treblaine]

I'd enjoy RPGs more if they were more Tactical than Strategic.

That being, preference for the Execution side of gameplay then Ordering what to happen. Example being, do you aim and fire with VATS, just stating where you want to hit, with what and with a given probability. OR, you take direct control with a mouse or thumb-stick and try to aim every shot yourself, trying to know yourself what is the best course for given probability and speed for hitting a given body part.

And same with more JRPG, where it tends to be more just chaining commands together for a group to attack an enemy pretty much entirely in the open with no attempts at dodging, using cover or flanking/closing.

I like the RPG aspect of balancing Stats of speed of manoeuvring, power of attacks over range, stealthiness and so on in a game with controls that let you push the limits of engagements. Things like Bioshock, so many plasmids and weapons to use in combination with a full range of movement to run and jump and use cover and flanking. I also consider CoD multiplayer a kind of RPG with all the weapons and perk combinations, not like Halo or UT were everyone is essentially identical.

I guess I'm like:
"Ok now go do this. NO! You're doing it wrong! Let me do it, I know how to get this done properly."

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

I don't think its that needed but its definitely a nice feature. I am a big fan of different opening parts of a game based on what type of character you are. Even though I only played a human in DAO, I appreciated the multiple starts.
I also hate redoing tutorials a lot.

 

[Gennadios]

Brings me back to the RPG yesteryear. As I recall Darklands actually let you create an entire character biography and just choose a litany of careers and educaional choices before you get dumped into a nondescript tavern to start the game. There was always the trade off between how well educated your character was, and their starting age, which literally ran the risk of having your character degrade in stats and die of old age before the campaign was completed.

Yes, I do enjoy these RPGs more, but keep in mind there's a tradeoff between customizability and open-endedness. The vast majority of game funding goes into cinematic, superficially open-ended games, and there are only so many variations one could implement before the scripting and cinematics start falling appart. Nothing wrong with that, but I'm personally getting bored with the formula, I can't see myself bying another AAA "RPG" after ME3. Most of the real creativity seems to be going on in the Indie scene.

 

[LordRoyal]

Just save a game after the tutorial part and respec your character with "Showracemenu" if it's so annoying to you.

Takes 5 seconds and starts you off at the start of the game proper.

Fallout New Vegas also started off at a really short tutorial part which took about 5 minutes and basically just followed character generation.

I feel tutorials and introductions to games are very important, otherwise upon a first playthrough they are very confusing and we don't respond well to them.

 

[Trippy Turtle]

First of all yes I like your idea.
Second this made me think of a possible mod for Skyrim. If you sell enough stuff maybe a trader or two will approach you after hearing about you and offer to sell things and make offers for what you have. Eventually after you have traded enough someone could offer to supply a shop you run. You could hire someone to work there or work there yourself. Not for everyone but it would add to the immersion.

 

[zerobudgetgamer]

I know this may sound a bit odd, but how about you put Skyrim down and play another RPG, maybe one you haven't played in a while? Honestly, half the reason starting sequences don't faze me is because, after I beat a game, I don't IMMEDIATELY return to it. I put it back in its case, set it back on the shelf, and then I pick something else. If I have a new game, I play that, if not, I look to whatever I haven't played in the last year or longer.

 

[JesterRaiin]

Opinions?

- Mods that provide "skip le Chateau de Langweilige Intro" are enough for me.
- Alternate start would break plenty of games. KOTOR2, ME2, Arcanum come to the mind. The beginning is sometimes very important, nay, crucial to the game.

 

[Azure-Supernova]

I know this may sound a bit odd, but how about you put Skyrim down and play another RPG, maybe one you haven't played in a while?

It's not so much burning out after one big Skyrim session, I usually burn out on a character and then leave the game until I want to play it again. I'm just noticing that once you've done one of the three classes they all play the same. The race bonuses are barely noticable and without the Attributes from previous Elder Scrolls titles there's really no difference in race other than purely cosmetic.

Inbetween Skyrim I've been playing Saints Row the Third, Dead Island and Alpha Protocol (again). It was Alpha Protocol that also contributed to the idea, as when you start the game you're asked for your character's military background which unlock certain dialogue options. Also once you've completed the game on Rookie, the blank slate option, you unlock the Veteran playthrough.

I feel tutorials and introductions to games are very important, otherwise upon a first playthrough they are very confusing and we don't respond well to them.

Which is why I said for second playthroughs. Like an option that becomes unlockable after you complete the main questline the first time around. Sure in more story driven RPGs your origin certainly matters alot more, but in games like Skyri and Fallout the story is often ambiguous enough for more creativity.

I'm not talking about simply skipping the tutorial, I'm talking about starting the game as a character in the lore of the game itself, using the knowledge the player already gained of the ingame content. Just little things like having people remark that they know you from your hometown. It's a matter of freedom for the roleplayer.

As I said above, Skyrim breaks gameplay down into three classes and I've played them all. No matter what I've tried my characters all feel the same to play with, a problem I don't rember having in Morrowind or Oblivion.