Would you play an art game?

[infohippie]

I think The Path fits your description of an arthouse game. It's hardly even a game, more like interactive art. I have played it, and rather enjoyed it, although I've not yet found every sister's own personal Wolf.

 

[Summerstorm]

I would and i did. Several times.

 

[Vrach]

Is the game well made and enjoyable? If the answer is yes, then I would play it

I can't help but to feel that you didn't read my post, and just replied based on the title. One of the points I tried to emphasis is that playing an art game itself probably won't be enjoyable at all. The enjoyment will come from interpretation and understanding of the game... not from the game itself. It's not like our current perception of games where you can have fun playing it. The only enjoyment you will probably get from a real, true art game is sitting down and analyzing it.

If the game is good, then yes, I would've. Depends, depends on the subject, how it's handled, how much it appeals to me. I don't go and look at art just because it's art, I go to look at art like I go to look at anything else, because I expect to enjoy it, the fact it's art is merely a property of the experience.

I'm not into art as arthouse frankly and consider such a limitation on the term to be elitism and arrogance (no offense) - I take it I'm free to assume Schindler's List is a good example of movie as art however? I watched it and I enjoyed it. No, I didn't end the movie with a smile on my face, but that doesn't mean I didn't enjoy it, I found the experience to be amazingly moving. Same for say, Slumdog Millionaire. I'm betting some of you are reading this and thinking "MAINSTREAM CAN'T BE ART!!!", but honestly don't give a shit, it was an amazing experience watching the story and it had a profound impact on me all the way through, from the way it was executed, to the story itself - that's what art is to me.

I'd disagree we haven't seen art in gaming however. No, it hasn't reached it's full potential yet, that much is true (I'd say that is because we have so much more potential to unlock with games than any other media in terms of mechanics, games constantly advance technologically), but if you take a look at, say, Syberia and tell me it's not art, then we simply must disagree on what the term means. Games don't just contain art, they are art in themselves. Some more so, some less so, but the artistic value is almost always there (it's absent usually mostly just in games that I'd classify more as a sport, ie. multiplayer-oriented games, though not even all of those), same as with every other media.

 

[Gigano]

Would I sit down and watch something that made no sense, and whose only relevance would come from an entirely subjective analysis on it - i.e. from my own head?

No. That's not art, that's a worthless train wreck made to be enjoyed and praised by art film critics and no one else. Art - good art anyway - speaks largely and instinctively to emotions, not rationality, so if the thing invoke nothing but having to think long and hard about what the hell you just watched, to try and the determine the kind of drugs the director was on when he made it, then it's simply a Rubik's cube for symbolists and literature nerds.

A game need not a single happy thought or shred of "fun" to be of serious artistic and literary merit, but it does need to affect you on a level deeper than what your rationality and methodological knowledge on symbolism and literature tells you about it.

 

[gigastar]

Im not sure if a wall of text trying to explain everything makes for a good OP...

Anyway if its enjoyable and in some way great, i would look into it. Rayman Origins looks to be next up on the list of artsy games that i would like to play.

 

[Android2137]

...So... can you give me an example of what you consider an art game? Because otherwise, I can't fully understand your definition...

I don't think an art game exists yet, so an example is quite impossible to ask for. Like I said, I think all the games that have come out up to this point have just been artistic, or contain art... and none of them have been the gaming equivalent to arthouse films. Perhaps there is some super obscure game that is can wholy be considered an art house game. It's all rather abstract right now. Like I said, if you watch an arthouse film, then I think you'll get a much better idea of what I am talking about.

So... Not even Braid? Then again, I guess I'm not really a fan of arthouse films. I have seen experimental animation, but that's the closest I've ever come to enjoying abstract art. When it comes to that kind of thing, I care less about the underlying message and more about the experiment. Can the viewer's emotions be influenced with just solid color and one sound? What crazy things can I do to this strip of film that won't break it or the projector? That kind of thing.

 

[DarthFennec]

I play a lot of `arthouse' style games, and I love the fuck out of a lot of them. Most of them are short little flash games, but I can play them over and over again and still have a great experience. There are some I don't like. But, again, there are others I like, so, sure, I'd play an art game.

Also, `would you play X game' seems like sort of an odd question to me, I mean of course I'd play it. I've never downright refused to play a video game, there's no reason to not play something. Maybe after you've played it once you could decide whether you liked it and whether you'd play it again, but you really have no frame of reference beforehand, so you have absolutely no idea whether you'd actually enjoy it or not.

 

[Raziel_Likes_Souls]

To be fair,

This was an entire game about visually manifesting parts of a gamer's life, so I kinda have played an art game.

But, for real ones, sure, why not? It broadens the horizons, so why not?

 

[Fenix7]

I think maybe "art" is not the best way to describe what you're looking for. I personally call games like that progressive, as they are trying to push boundaries, expand the scope of what games can do and achieve, and generally resamble someone clearing a path (no pun intended)with a machete and everyone else followed afterwards.

Now whether that is "art"... I don't know. I think the gaming community are kind of obsessed with that word.

Oh and I meant Okami is art, not that it contains art, duh. I think if you've played it, you'd know why.

 

[Lazy Kitty]

Well, would you? I'm not talking about a game with artistic elements, a game containing art, or even an artistic game, but a real, in the flesh arthouse game. I don't consider a game that contains art to be art itself, or even an artistic game to be art. There's a fine, but notable difference between being art, and simply containing it. Now I think that games have proven they have the ability to be art, but no one has capitalized on it. I don't believe a true arthouse game exists yet, primarily because the legal definition of art is just now including games, so hopefully a game created for the sole purpose of art will come up someday or another. However, please don't dwell on this... it's not the purpose of this thread.

Now, before you say yes, I want you to think about it. I know the whole 'GAMES ARE TOTALLY ART MAN' movement is popular on this site, but I honestly want you to think about it. To get a better perspective on it all, I advise you to watch an arthouse film if you never have before (watch The Seventh Seal or something). If you have never watched an art film before, then you are in for a huge culture shock. Art films aren't fun. They are a huge chore to watch: You usually have to sanction time out in your day to sit down and watch one, and they are incredibly challenging to sit through (not only because of the typically slow and methodical pacing, but because of the simple content you are being fed). The biggest thing is you will garner no enjoyment from finishing it. Odds say the movie won't end on a happy note, and since the film itself is so challenging, you'll probably walk away confused and hate the film. Most art films are like this.

So, what's the point of an art film then? It's understanding it. Unless you cheat and read an synopsis of the film, it will take you a while to understand what you just watched. You'll have to digest the imagery, symbolism, themes, and all those big words you learned in freshmen English. THEN you'll enjoy the film. The enjoyment of art films comes not from watching it, but from understanding it. This, I feel, is the major factor that separates Hollywood films from art films. A Hollywood film is meant to be fun. It might make you think a little, and be kind of artistic, but it's ultimate goal, beyond all else is to entertain. Arthouse is there JUST to make you think. It doesn't care about entertaining you, or making you laugh, it just wants you to think, and understand it.

Honestly, I speculate an art game will be very similar to arthouse films. Yeah, yeah, don't talk about that interactivity crap. It's not going to make it any more entertaining... if anything, the developer might actually use the interactivity of games to make your experience more miserable to drive home a theme or something. Even further, it will probably be a huge chore to play, and offer little in the way of entertainment value. It will have a slow pace, and move along at a pace it thinks appropriate-- not what you think is appropriate. Beating it will probably not leave you with that "gamer's euphoria" or give you any sense of accomplishment. It will be there to make you think, and unless you want to sit down and really analyze the game (I'm talking about analysis like literature, as in deconstructing the game's analogies, and looking for thematic meaning... like the stuff you did in school), then you will probably end up totally hating it. Arthouse games are going to be just like arthouse films: you will end up enjoying it because you understand it, and interpret it, not because its fun in itself.

So, would you play an art game?

Can you give an example of an art game?

 

[zombiestrangler]

Does LIMBO count? If so, then yes, would and have.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Look mate if all paintings, movies and music are considered art then clearly so must games.
Does not mean every person will consider them the same, so you make up your own damn mind on what is and isn't art.

It would highly depend on the game if I play it or not, I don't like most paintings, I don't like most movies and I don't like most music, they haveto give me something of interest play it.

 

[Torrasque]

A Hollywood film is meant to be fun. It might make you think a little, and be kind of artistic, but it's ultimate wronggoal, beyond all else is to entertain. Arthouse is there JUST to make you think.

Bullshit. Truly great art is both thought provoking AND entertaining. What you are talking about is pretentious crap. Bad art. So to answer your question No, I would not like to play a bad art game when there's so many good ones out there.

Also, the Seventh Seal kicks ass.

I agree.
The first Matrix, most Ghost in the Shell, Starship Troopers, V for Vendetta, and American History X are all meant to be thought provoking then entertaining. Most people watch these movies and just see entertainment, but all of these have a great deal more hidden meaning that you won't get until you've watched the movie 4 or 5 times.
Like Varulfic said, you're just describing bad art and generalizing bad movies. I wouldn't play a bad game just like I wouldn't watch a bad movie. So would I play a good art game? A game that JUST made me think? Well if it wasn't entertaining at all, then probably no. But if it was still entertaining, then yeah why not? I still get some "deep meaning" from certain games, they're not all "mindless enjoyment".

Also, I haven't seen Seventh Seal, but I'll add it to my summer movies list.

Edit:

I play a lot of `arthouse' style games, and I love the fuck out of a lot of them. Most of them are short little flash games, but I can play them over and over again and still have a great experience. There are some I don't like. But, again, there are others I like, so, sure, I'd play an art game.

Also, `would you play X game' seems like sort of an odd question to me, I mean of course I'd play it. I've never downright refused to play a video game, there's no reason to not play something. Maybe after you've played it once you could decide whether you liked it and whether you'd play it again, but you really have no frame of reference beforehand, so you have absolutely no idea whether you'd actually enjoy it or not.

^ Everything here, a thousand times over.

 

[Mogget128723]

Definately.

But the interesting things about art games is that they don't yet exist in terms of mainstream gaming, but one doesn't have to look far to find flash artists that produce this kind of thing every day. And personally, I've always loved things that I have to sit back and think about, maybe spend hours considering.

Has anyone played 'Coil'? It's on Newgrounds, and I think a fullscreen version is also free on Steam. Even though it appears to have a clear meaning, I still haven't pieced together exactly what it's saying... if you get what I'm saying here.

And then if you're going to look at individual parts of the definition of art, a game called 'The Polynomial' exists primarily to be beautiful. You plug in a piece of music, and the game generates a massive, three-dimensional particle simulation you fly through, experiencing your music turned into a visual landscape. Unfortunately, the game is damaged by tacked-on combat, but it's easy to turn that off.

Then the time-manipulating platformer 'Braid' is a deep and extensive metaphor, the true ending of which only a distinct few of its players have seen.

Then there's 'Inside A Star-Filled Sky'... though the question in that case is does it have any meaning to begin with?

Oh yeah. And Call of Duty: Black Ops is totally art. Its depth is astounding, and its symbolism profound... nope, couldn't keep a straight face.

EDIT: Bars of Black and White. Google it; you'll find it somewhere on the internet... Just had to add that, as it's probably my favorite art game.

 

[Halo Fanboy]

I'd say yes, and I'd argue that something like this would qualify: http://www.ludomancy.com/games/today.php?lang=en

What's the salient difference between that game and Adventure or something similar?

 

[Halo Fanboy]

Rapelay is probably one of the biggest art games around right now. It's depraved, bizarre, surreal, highly sexual and extremely devoid of entertainment value. You could frame it as a pseudo-ironic commentary on rape culture or something. The next step is an adaption of that Marqui de Sade movie.

 

[viranimus]

Other thought.

I think if you want to see what an Art game is, you really should play The Endless Forest.

It certainly expands what we consider to be a game, It even explores human interaction through lack of communication. Its one of the best examples of what an art game is or can be. It is made by the same company that made The path, and it has the advantage of being essentially free.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Endless_Forest

http://www.tale-of-tales.com/TheEndlessForest/

I wanted to play that but it kept crashing for some reason. It's pretty much an interactive screensaver though, right?

Yes, Part interactive screen saver, Part MMO, part sandbox, part living experience.

As for getting it to work. I know every time I have ever tried to play it, its been fairly problematic. Just seems coded poorly and not optimized very well. So thats really the games issue. Regretable too, because it is an interesting experience.

Perhaps a video will let you get the gist of it. (though its not really near enough)

 

[Moeez]

*snip*

I have, and they're pretty good. This is going to be a long post, sorry, I like so many! None of them have happy endings, and they all are introspective. They end up on IGF or other independent festivals. You should check them out.

http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/5894/lovedartgame.jpg
Loved [http://www.alexanderocias.com/loved.php] [about 5 min] (Alexander Ocias)
It's a simple side-scrolling platformer, with the goal of the director asking you questions and allowing you to defy or obey. You get different results in the gameplay. If you obey, the colored spaces turn into defined pixels and this helps with obstacles. If you defy, you'll just see colored blocks and the ending gets pretty freaky with pixeled colors bleeding from all over. One of my favourites.

http://screenshots.en.softonic.com/en/scrn/93000/93676/hazard-the-journey-of-life-14.png
Hazard: The Journey of Life [http://www.udk.com/showcase-hazard] [about 4 hours] (Alexander Bruce)
"Hazard is a philosophical first-person single-player exploration puzzle art game. The game presents no goals directly to the player, but they create goals for themselves based on what they know of the world. This game requires patience. Life isn't easy!"

http://ready-up.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Limbo-Spider.jpg
Limbo [http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Product/LIMBO/66acd000-77fe-1000-9115-d802584109d1] [about 6 hours] (Playdead Studios)
You knew this was coming. It perfectly displays all the childhood fears of dark forests, creepy children, impaling spiders, brain parasites, and industrial deathtraps.

http://firsthour.net/screenshots/braid/braid-castle-flag-mario.jpg
Braid [http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Product/Braid/66acd000-77fe-1000-9115-d802584108ce] [about 6 hours] (Jonathan Blow)
Probably the most mainstream art game (oxymoron?). It has one of the most mind-blowing endings in a game ever. The ending makes you question everything, forcing you to read all the books, decipher Tim and the Princess' relationship, and atomic bombs for some reason.

http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/8930/redridinghoodstayonthep.jpg
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9423/gothgirlsmokingwolf.jpg
The Path [http://store.steampowered.com/app/27000/] [about 5 hours] (Michael Samyn & Auriea Harvey)
This is actually one of the most taxing art games, but also the one you can talk about the most. It's a 3D Red Riding Hood horror adventure game set in a large forest where you play 6 female protagonists (with synonyms of red as names) of different personality types, and discover the wolves that cause them to stray from the path.
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/8577/imakidredridinghoodshop.jpg
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/1250/thepathr.jpg
http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/1804/thepathtv.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8879/playinggamesinagraveyar.jpg


You can stick to the path to Grandma's house, which makes the game laughably short, or collect flowers and discover certain objects that define a certain girl's personality (took me 5 hours). It has PS1 Tomb Raider style controls, and it's a lot of aimless wandering until you stumble on clues (that's why it's taxing), but damn it's still worth checking out what type of wolf suits which female character. If you discover the wolf, going to the House becomes pure nightmare fuel.
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/2936/thepathwolfscratchmarks.jpg
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/9321/housewheelchair.jpg

After recently finishing it, this has me hyped for thatgamecompany's Journey.