Would you say that using a guide ruins the purpose of gaming?

[NPC009]

If checking a guide of asking friends for help keeps the game fun, why not do so? Games are entertainment, not a pissing contest. I mean, sure, you allowed to treat 'em like one, but don't expect everyone to join in.

Also, developers don't seem to mind. Many big releases have an official guide. And when I was talking to the people who made Tengami, they recommended I use a guide when I got stuck. They want their game to be a relaxing experience, so they're totally fine with gamers checking a guide to prevent frustration.

You might ask, "Why play the game if you're going to circumvent as much of the challenge as you can?" To which I'd say that everyone enjoys different things when they play games.

Absolutely true, and I wouldn't even checking a guide for requirements and such circumventing challenges. You're just using some tools to build your own strategies, which is the real fun part of tackling a challenge.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

This is going to sound extremely silly but as a kid I always loved utilizing guides when playing Zelda as it felt as if I was consulting a map that guided me on my travels. It really enhanced the adventurous mood of the game and my old, worn out Ocarina of Time guide is one of the most nostalgic things I own as a result.

Also the water temple, I won't do that without a guide, forget playing for challenge.

 

[barbzilla]

You know what ruins gaming? Spending alot of time talking about games on the internet rather than playing them. Learning all the nasty things about the industry and other gamers has killed the magic of gaming for me. Guides never caused a problem for me.

You know, you make a damn good point. I haven't thought about it much, but there are a number of developers that I just flat out won't buy from due to some of the shenanigans they have pulled, and if I wasn't such an avid reader of gaming journalism I would probably still play these games.

 

[Savryc]

I'd say the primary purpose of gaming is entertainment, everything else is a happy side-bonus. So if someone can still find entertainment while using a guide it's all good.

I'll tell you one of the things that does ruin the purpose of games though. Self-important twats that sneer down at other gamers for daring to play a game different than they do.

 

[Thorn14]

Depends on the game / challenge really.

If its a game that rewards exploration and is not frustrating about it, sure.

But if you're looking for THAT DAMN HIDDEN THING, or stuck and something is really hard to discover, why not?

A boss fight unless I'm getting my ass trounced I'm gonna just keep grinding it out and figure it out myself (Shame these games are becoming harder and harder to find.)

A collectable or secret weapon is in some stupid crazy to find spot? Yeah I'll look it up.

 

[visiblenoise]

I prefer to stick with the notion that gaming has no real purpose. Purpose is overrated.

 

[b.w.irenicus]

Simple: The only purpose of games is to have fun. If you have fun using a guide, more power to you.

That being said, I have actually experienced myself that I read things in a guide I wish I would have found out myself. So using a guide might actually influence the fun you can have in a negative way. I guess it depends on the game and on the person playing. Generally speaking, do what you have fun with (unless you cheat in a multiplayer-game, then you are a dino-count'ish dick monkey (don't think about it)).

 

[WeepingAngels]

You know what ruins gaming? Spending alot of time talking about games on the internet rather than playing them. Learning all the nasty things about the industry and other gamers has killed the magic of gaming for me. Guides never caused a problem for me.

You know, you make a damn good point. I haven't thought about it much, but there are a number of developers that I just flat out won't buy from due to some of the shenanigans they have pulled, and if I wasn't such an avid reader of gaming journalism I would probably still play these games.

...and all this PC bullshit lately, can't even play Mario without worrying about gender roles.

Also, specific to this site, why do I need to constantly prove I am human? Do I not have an account and isn't that account proven and if at some point I become a bot, they can ban the account. I just don't get why captcha's are a constant thing here. Well, maybe advertising dollars.

 

[Olas]

I consider guides and the like as cheating but only when used on the first playthrough...after that i'm fine with it. Once you've proven yourself good enough to beat a game then do as you like, you've earned the right.

Begging your pardon, but when I want to find the 108 Stars of Destiny in Suikoden I don't need to "Earn the right". I'll do what I god damn please.

Mind if I ask what's the point of playing a difficult game if you're planning on looking up for help? For example, Dark Souls sells and markets based off its high difficulty, and the satisfaction that comes with overcoming it. If you just went on YouTube and followed a step by step guide to beat it, not only does it strip the game of its selling point, there's no real sense of accomplishment is there?

I'm sorry but no. A guide may give you a few pointers that prevent you from wasting hours on a strategy that doesn't work, but there is no magic secret to beating Dark Souls and no guide in the world is going to make that game easy.

And if you're going to complain about people doing things that strip the game of it's difficulty how about co-op and [a href="http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.847113-I-have-a-problem-with-Dark-Souls"]Soul Farming[/a].

Dark Souls is one of the few games where I would not only accept people using guides, but I would ENCOURAGE it, because many, many features and areas of the game are essentially impossible to find without help and people who don't use guides will never discover them. For example, I completely skipped over the AotA DLC on my first playthrough because I never went through the incredibly obscure and convoluted steps to reach it. If I hadn't decided to play NG+ I would have never encountered some of my favorite bosses.

 

[happyninja42]

I admit that while I don't do it often myself, sometimes I will just be frustrated with some part of a game (boss, puzzles) and be loose on time, then resort to finding help.

Nothing wrong with that. It's no different from having a friend help you, or asking them on a strategy on how to beat a boss. The fact that the source material you used is published is irrelevant.

It's only now I found out how much people out there resent the idea of looking for help with a game, since it supposedly destroys the entire idea of playing a game.

Well who bloody well cares what they think? It's your game, you paid for it, play how you damn well please.

To further clarify, people say that once you start looking at a guide to get through a game, it's no longer playing it as much as doing a chore.

And to clarify, who bloody well cares what they think? xD

You know, I don't like to namedrop and I apologize if it is against the rules, but to set an example: Infamous gamer darksydephil constantly looks to his stream chat or tweets to get through a game, and this is especially apparent when he played Dark Souls.

I don't know who this is, and I don't care. He can get help from whoever he wants. There is no law prohibiting collaborative gaming. We learn from others, that's sort of how we've developed this awesome world we live in, by recording and preserving knowledge for people to use later on in time.

But your thoughts on this might be interesting?

Rock those strategy guides with your socks off buddy. I've used them plenty of times myself, and I still go check out gamefaqs now and then if I need help on something. Some games make what you need to do insanely difficult to figure out. Sometimes it's not at all intuitive based on what's going on in the game, and I've asked myself later 'Well how in the hell was I supposed to assume that would work?!"

Don't pay those other people any mind and play the game how you want to.

 

[Redd the Sock]

It depends on the game and the purpose.

The argument of playing for fun justifying it is somewhat complexing to me. Am I having less fun because I'm hunting for secrets in zelda while you're just following a map right to them? Am I having less fun finding the robot master's weakness myself instead of just looking up the "proper" order to fight them? The argument is one I get, but feel comes with an unspoken statement to those using guides to play for fun: and I only have fun if I'm winning and having the easiest time of it possible. The more the game's mechanics is puzzle based, be more pathetic it seems to just bring up the solutions and follow them to completion.

That said, pure saturation aside, gaming has gone into very large games with very elaborate secrets and things that can be missed forever and / or lead to bad endings, so guides are very understandable for certain purposes. It seems more acceptable to keep a list of Dragon Age or Borderlands quests on hand to play them all, even if you don't look up how to beat the quests. I keep a list of "missables" dug up on gamefaqs for games I'd like to 100% without having to restart. Then of course there's the "true/bad ending" problem that hits any player of JRPGs where you'd kind of like to know if what you see was how it really should end, or if you accidentally cut the game short through one decision or another. Given some weapon / item requirements to get are downright insane even if you know about them, I also get learning how ahead of time if you want the unlockable gun, or best weapon hidden behind some obscure challenge (friggin Zodiac Spear).

Once I was more anal, and while I'd still look at someone just following a playthrough for Phoenix Wright or Portal like they really shouldn't be in the hobby, now that games are 80 hours for a single playthrough, and coming out so fast, I do find myself willing to cheat a bit to see it all the first time because I don't have time for a second.

 

[Something Amyss]

Some games are terribly designed and almost mandate a guide. Others don't explain things and you need some resource to know them. But games have multiple purposes, and while some would certainly be defeated, others wouldn't.

So, like most things, I guess it depends.

I wouldn't use a guide on, say, a puzzle game.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

No. If you want to use then use it. If not then dont. Though i would hope people try before they use a guide. I know a person that used a guide when starting to play it. But then they are only ruining it for themselves so it doesnt matter.

 

[Pyrian]

I don't think it's fun to endless peruse a map hunting for some obscure object which may or may not be there, so when games basically mandate that behavior, I'm likely to just go to the walkthrough after a quick look around. It's like, I could spend the next hour tediously examining every nook and cranny in a frankly boring level, or I could just find out where it is and get on with my gaming.

 

[RedDeadFred]

The purpose of gaming is to have fun. If you using a guide helps you have fun, all the power to you. Who are we to define how a person is supposed to have fun while playing a game? Seems incredibly dickish to me.

 

[aozgolo]

I find guides more beneficial for games that LOCK you out of content based off decisions you make in the gameplay, especially if that decision is not obvious.

I mean who seriously ever got the best weapon in Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Spear without a guide? It requires not opening 4 chests earlier in the game that gives no indication ANYWHERE that opening them is going to lock you out of content, so what's to keep you from opening them? That and the fact that some extremely rare one of a kind items only have like a 10% chance of ever spawning in a single chest? Without guides and save scumming you will NEVER get a perfect playthrough from Final Fantasy XII.

On the other hand there's games like Dragon Quest IX which is so ingeniously designed as to never lock you out of experiencing any content regardless of how far into the game you are, you can always go back, even after you beat the game, and acquire any items, quests, or secrets you missed. Though I admit I still use a guide for it just due to the complexity of the alchemy krak pot system.

 

[SmallHatLogan]

Well, since each individual has their own purpose when gaming it's up to them whether or not using a guide has an effect on that purpose.

For me personally, I avoid guides on a first playthrough then in subsequent playthroughs (or during the endgame/post game section) I'll usually check one to see what optional stuff I've missed.

If a game is so obtuse that a guide is almost a requirement *cough*simon'squest*cough* I usually just won't bother playing.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Given some weapon / item requirements to get are downright insane even if you know about them, I also get learning how ahead of time if you want the unlockable gun, or best weapon hidden behind some obscure challenge (friggin Zodiac Spear).

"Wait... you mean I had to use the hidden door to travel back to the first area of the game, use a high level skill to rescue the old bum, take the dirty hanky his gives you as reward, wash it in holy water and give the clean hanky to the ragged angel hanging out in the HIDDEN LEVEL (that requires you to do 12 unflagged things in a very specific order to unlock) as the hanky was the missing part of his robe and in thanks he gives you the flaming sword of retribution? FUCK YOU, GAME"

 

[Roxas1359]

I mean who seriously ever got the best weapon in Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Spear without a guide? It requires not opening 4 chests earlier in the game that gives no indication ANYWHERE that opening them is going to lock you out of content, so what's to keep you from opening them? That and the fact that some extremely rare one of a kind items only have like a 10% chance of ever spawning in a single chest? Without guides and save scumming you will NEVER get a perfect playthrough from Final Fantasy XII.

This, so much this. My first playthrough I didn't know about it and without a guide I would've made the same mistake as my first playthrough. Thank goodness the International version removed that arbitrary requirement and you can get the Zodiac Spear while still opening those chests.
That said, the developers then added 3 super weapons in the game to compensate (the chests do respawn for those too so you can farm them). One of the weapons has a 0.01% chance of spawning in a chest, on an airship...did I mention the chest is invisible.
The weapon you get does 225 Damage compared to the Zodiac Spear's 150, can be equipped by anyone, and doesn't require a license for it. I also just discovered only 2 days ago that there are other super weapons like it, with a spawn rate of 0.02% and 0.04% respectively. Worst part, one of them is in the Pharos Subterra. >~<

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Though I admit I still use a guide for it just due to the complexity of the alchemy krak pot system.

Crafting guides are very important for games with crafting systems that use Adventure Game Logic.