Would you say that using a guide ruins the purpose of gaming?

[DaWaffledude]

The purpose o-

The purpose of gaming is to have fun. If you using a guide helps you have fun, all the power to you. Who are we to define how a person is supposed to have fun while playing a game? Seems incredibly dickish to me.

... Umm, yeah. What he said.

Play games how you want to play them. There's no "wrong" way to do it. Even if that way is playing frisbee with the disc.

 

[Silvanus]

I usually consider it kind of 'cheating' to use a guide on your first playthrough-- though I have done it rarely (once or twice I looked stuff up in A Link to the Past). I feel the same way about reloading an old save to re-do something you want to have done differently in a game in which your choices make a difference (as I did once in ME1, and once in ME2).

But that's just a personal standard. Play games however you like.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

But that's just a personal standard. Play games however you like.

I can't now, I'll always have the feeling that you're judging me.

 

[TitanAtlas]

It depends. If the game is frustrating, with horrible level designs or construction, then yes.... there are times i have resorted to walkthroughs....

If the game is fairly simple, and intuitive, such has dark souls, i READ what the game tells me, be it directly or INDIRECTLY (dark souls items tell the story). After i finish it, i MIGHT use a guide for scavaging, or items hunting.

 

[small]

haha thats funny. one down side of the last 20 years of gaming is the rise of the net, and the perception that games must either be x to be a game or they can only be played one single way.

unless people prefer the old days when you would get stuck in a game after 30 minutes and thats as far as you ever got

 

[Proverbial Jon]

I'll use a guide only when I'm so stuck that frustration sets to the degree where I'm no longer having fun or being entertained by the game.

What I don't like is when you get adverts alongside the game saying Buy the official Prima guide now! as if they're advocating that you'll have a far better time should you play with your trusty guide by your sides at all times.

The only guide I ever bought was the Skyrim Legendary edition, simply because it was a beast of a book and is good to flick through every now and then. I've never actually used it for its true purpose... we have UESP for that!

 

[Snotnarok]

Of course it ruins the game, if you abuse the guide and ruin things like gameplay and story which can easily be done. If you're stuck, but did truly give it your all and you just can't figure out what to do? I guess.
I personally try going into most games blind as it generates more wow and interest.

 

[Mister K]

Why in the name of a flying gypsy f*ck would I even care about how a person plays their games? If they enjoy it, then whatever, I don't care.

Unless it's a game from team-based competitive multiplayer genres (you know, DOTA, Counter--strike, etc.). Please DO read something prior to playing in order to help your team win.

 

[Teoes]

It depends on the game and the purpose.

The argument of playing for fun justifying it is somewhat complexing to me. Am I having less fun because I'm hunting for secrets in zelda while you're just following a map right to them? Am I having less fun finding the robot master's weakness myself instead of just looking up the "proper" order to fight them? The argument is one I get, but feel comes with an unspoken statement to those using guides to play for fun: and I only have fun if I'm winning and having the easiest time of it possible. The more the game's mechanics is puzzle based, be more pathetic it seems to just bring up the solutions and follow them to completion.

That said, pure saturation aside, gaming has gone into very large games with very elaborate secrets and things that can be missed forever and / or lead to bad endings, so guides are very understandable for certain purposes. It seems more acceptable to keep a list of Dragon Age or Borderlands quests on hand to play them all, even if you don't look up how to beat the quests. I keep a list of "missables" dug up on gamefaqs for games I'd like to 100% without having to restart. Then of course there's the "true/bad ending" problem that hits any player of JRPGs where you'd kind of like to know if what you see was how it really should end, or if you accidentally cut the game short through one decision or another. Given some weapon / item requirements to get are downright insane even if you know about them, I also get learning how ahead of time if you want the unlockable gun, or best weapon hidden behind some obscure challenge (friggin Zodiac Spear).

Once I was more anal, and while I'd still look at someone just following a playthrough for Phoenix Wright or Portal like they really shouldn't be in the hobby, now that games are 80 hours for a single playthrough, and coming out so fast, I do find myself willing to cheat a bit to see it all the first time because I don't have time for a second.

It's not complex, it shouldn't be confusing: different people find fun in different things. It's subjective. When one person finds fun in using a guide or not using a guide, that has no impact on another's experience for doing the opposite.

Why should you care how someone derives fun from their purchased entertainment? Why should someone else care what you find acceptable or pathetic when it comes to how they play? Why should anyone get to judge whether or not another deserves the right to play games in the first place on the basis of their skill, lack thereof, available time to invest or preferred method of completion? I bought the game, I'll play it how I damn well please and would not give the steam off my piss to anyone who thinks they can sit in judgment of my methods.

To echo the suave shark above, people with pompous opinions about these things can fuck right off.

 

[CannibalCorpses]

I consider guides and the like as cheating but only when used on the first playthrough...after that i'm fine with it. Once you've proven yourself good enough to beat a game then do as you like, you've earned the right.

Begging your pardon, but when I want to find the 108 Stars of Destiny in Suikoden I don't need to "Earn the right". I'll do what I god damn please.

That's cool, just remember to put the guide writers name against anything you write about the game because you didn't finish the game, they did.

I'll apply the same logic to, say, school tests. Why bother with the years of learning when you could just copy the answers from someone else? It's all about the end result right? It doesn't matter that you don't know anything about the subject, you passed the test, yippee, all is right in the world! Funny thing is, when you don't cheat to get things you realize that you never needed to cheat to get things and that the cheating itself makes you less able to get things without cheating.

I'm not cool with doing that to myself but you are free to if thats what you desire. Each to their own i guess *shrugs*

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

The only way of "beating the purpose of gaming" is if you stop having fun at it.

 

[CannibalCorpses]

Or colletables I want, like the Riddler trophies in the Arkham series...

The game puts them on the map for you...it's one of the few games where the system is built so you don't need a guide to do them. There are only 1 or 2 that require a little more thought than the rest

 

[Teoes]

I consider guides and the like as cheating but only when used on the first playthrough...after that i'm fine with it. Once you've proven yourself good enough to beat a game then do as you like, you've earned the right.

Begging your pardon, but when I want to find the 108 Stars of Destiny in Suikoden I don't need to "Earn the right". I'll do what I god damn please.

That's cool, just remember to put the guide writers name against anything you write about the game because you didn't finish the game, they did.

I'll apply the same logic to, say, school tests. Why bother with the years of learning when you could just copy the answers from someone else? It's all about the end result right? It doesn't matter that you don't know anything about the subject, you passed the test, yippee, all is right in the world! Funny thing is, when you don't cheat to get things you realize that you never needed to cheat to get things and that the cheating itself makes you less able to get things without cheating.

I'm not cool with doing that to myself but you are free to if thats what you desire. Each to their own i guess *shrugs*

I can't tell if you're being serious or joking with that ludicrous apples and oranges comparison.

 

[SerithVC]

Guides are good for two things. Maps and in the case of some games charts.

When ever i play through a game for the first time, i just play through it, fuck the guides and all that. After i beat it i may go find a guide to see if there was anything i missed that i want to get.

 

[Caiphus]

That depends on what you would consider to be the purpose of gaming.

I find that using a guide means I have to tab away from my games, and that makes it more difficult to lure teenage boys - okay I don't think I can continue this post.

 

[Loonyyy]

The purpose of gaming is whatever you ascribe to it. If someone wants to use a guide, good for them. Damned silly question if you ask me. The only occasion where I'd even be able to give an ounce of a fuck is when there's some reward for it. That reward can be satisfaction or mastery, but there has to be a reason to actually do it. And when that's the case, the advice is always kind, advising people that they'd enjoy it more, or get more out of it. Of course some people will say various things about how it's cheating, or unearned. These people have no better achievement in their lives than their completion of a videogame, which they wish to defend with unearned pride and scorn, and that's pathetic.

Also, the Final Fantasy example is an example of bad game design. Atrocious design. It's idiotic shit like that which destroyed the old-school of puzzle games. I have a feeling that the inclusion there is to actually make people buy guides (Like the various game mags you see littered in games store), or to make people play through again after they've finished (Which just tells me that they couldn't make a game that was satisfying on one run, so they get to cheap out on assets letting you run through again).

 

[Diablo2000]

Or colletables I want, like the Riddler trophies in the Arkham series...

The game puts them on the map for you...it's one of the few games where the system is built so you don't need a guide to do them. There are only 1 or 2 that require a little more thought than the rest

Well, I didn't know that playing Arkham City. I already had collect 80% of them before I even find out about the informants.
In Arkham Origins, I did use them, but I still used a guide to locate the few ones that were tricky to get to.

 

[Erttheking]

I consider guides and the like as cheating but only when used on the first playthrough...after that i'm fine with it. Once you've proven yourself good enough to beat a game then do as you like, you've earned the right.

Begging your pardon, but when I want to find the 108 Stars of Destiny in Suikoden I don't need to "Earn the right". I'll do what I god damn please.

That's cool, just remember to put the guide writers name against anything you write about the game because you didn't finish the game, they did.

I'll apply the same logic to, say, school tests. Why bother with the years of learning when you could just copy the answers from someone else? It's all about the end result right? It doesn't matter that you don't know anything about the subject, you passed the test, yippee, all is right in the world! Funny thing is, when you don't cheat to get things you realize that you never needed to cheat to get things and that the cheating itself makes you less able to get things without cheating.

I'm not cool with doing that to myself but you are free to if thats what you desire. Each to their own i guess *shrugs*

No, I won't. And when I ask for help with a game from a friend, I won't put down their name when I talk about it. Video games are not scholarly papers. Also, you try and get the good ending in Suikoden II without a guide, you try and figure out how the flying Hell you're supposed to get Mukumuku without it.

Let me answer your question with another question. If you are struggling with a section, wouldn't you ask for help? If you want all the power ups in Metroid and you just can't find them, wouldn't you look them up? Wouldn't you look up the feathers in Assassin's Creed 2? Advice on how to kill the Dark Souls boss you're struggling with? Christ, Dark Souls is a game that is built on having players share information and advice. Really what you're doing is dictating how someone is "allowed" to be play video games.

 

[Savagezion]

It ruins the purpose for me. I play most games as 'challenges' to overcome. I put that in quotations because games are linear checkpoint and ammo spamming hand holders. I have used guides but only when I have tried everything I can think of and nothing has worked. Many times I look up a guide and I get pissed because I tried that and it didn't work. Now that the guide says it, it works... horseshit.

FOr me saying you beat a game means you picked up a controller with no knowledge of what lay before you and you made it to the end. Using Demon's Souls, (I haven't played Dark Souls) anyone that says they beat Demon's Souls, I give 1,000 awesome points to in my brain. If they admit to using a guide or that someone who had already beaten it played backseat driver, it drops to 200 awesome points. A lot of Demon's Soul's challenge is not knowing wtf is going on.

For what its worth, beating a hand holdy game like Uncharted, RDR, Fallout, etc. is only worth like 100 'awesome points' to me as far as accomplishments go. Then anywhere between 0-10 points if you used a guide.

The problem I personally have with using guides is that everyone I have ever known to use guides likes to inform me that I am not playing 'optimally' when I talk about the game.

Guide User: DId you get the Rocket Launcher of Fiery Explosion?
Me: I didn't even know their was one.
Guide User: Yep, *describes how to get it*. It dominates everything.
Me: I seem to be dominating enough with conventional weapons and checkpoints.
Guide User: Have you got all the hidden items?
Me: Nah, I don't think so. I don't really hunt those down.
Guide User: I got em all. I have the game 100% completed.

By this time I no longer want to even talk about the game with them. However, let's assume a week later I finish a challenging part of the game. I am excited about how intense things got and want to tell the story of how my playthrough went.

Me: Oh man, I just got past the cemetery section. That was insane I didn't even realize that I was supposed to get to the mausoleum so I ran around fighting those damned zombies for like 20 mins. It wasn't until I was out of ammo that I realized and they kept grabbing me. Each time I was having to mash triangle and then I would get them off of me only to be grabbed again. By the end my thumb was sore.
Guide user: You should have gotten the rocket launcher of fiery explosion, I just strolled to the mausoleum blasting them along the way.
Me: Shut up. (Obviously unaware of the entire REASON I wanted to tell the story)

My brother recently tried playing the Last of Us and in the first room full of clickers (Subway) where you are supposed to sneak by them, he ran in and spooked the first one, ran from it and spooked the rest of them. However, he made it to the center of the room and hopped the wall. He explained he was hopping the waist high walls trying to figure out where to go and distance himself from them. I thought this was a story about his first death by clickers as he went on. Then he explained that he came to a dead end and turned to see an army of clickers charging at him and he pulled out a molotov and threw it since they were all clustered before hopping a waist high wall and taking off running. He killed every clicker in the room with 1 molotov cocktail. Now, that is a damn good story. That's hard to pull off even if you know what you are trying to do. Just for doing that he scored like 500 awesome points in my book. That's the kind of cool crap that guides will rob you of.

I can understand someone using a guide to see content in a game but not having time to see what they want to see. I totally get time constraints. I get being OCD and having to get all the collectibles. But using a guide does discredit the "accomplishment" in my eyes. To each their own and if you like playing that way, have at it. My perspective isn't their to tell people what they can and can't or should and shouldn't do. However, I do prefer to talk to people about games that don't use guides, more specifically rely on them. (Guides rob you of the in-game struggles - having to go through the motions isn't a struggle) The people who buy a guide for a game at the same time they purchase it are a completely different kind of gamer than me and they can tend to kill my fun every bit as my perspective can tend to kill theirs.

 

[CaitSeith]

But your thoughts on this might be interesting?

They might be, but it's personal opinion. Joke aside, it depends on the reason of why you are playing that game. What kind of joy do you want to get from it? The joy of exploration and discovery? The joy of good gameplay? The joy of a good (or at least entertaining) story? The joy of overcoming obstacles and challenge? The joy of winning in multiplayer? Or simply you play to phase out from a lousy day? Guides can make some of these things easier, and others pointless.

I think the complains are because the guides are very easy to find, and reduce the challenge that made the achievers to feel superior in skill and knowledge in the past.