There are many transsexuals who have to deal with feeling endlessly unhappy about their body. That IS a problem. If there was some sort of magic pill to make people not feel body dissonance... would that be so bad, for them to have that option?BathorysGraveland2 said:
Would you support a cure for homosexuality and transexualism?
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Yeah, I've already realised my mistake. Zachary Amaranth opened my eyes there. Yeah, a cure for transsexualism is alright, I can agree with that. I was just coming from the viewpoint that there is nothing "morally" wrong with transsexuals themselves. Just worded it poorly, I suppose.Ruzinus said:
Changing a sexual orientation? Why would you do that? Both orientations have equal pros and cons. You can eventually be just as happy with a women as you'd be with a man.
Interesting follow up Question, though:
If there was a magic device that could make you homosexual, right now, without any side effects, and the goverment urged you to do it to counter overpopulation, would you?
Interesting follow up Question, though:
If there was a magic device that could make you homosexual, right now, without any side effects, and the goverment urged you to do it to counter overpopulation, would you?
honestly no i don't think i'd support a cure. it might be nice for those who feel lost but that is just as easily solved with social acceptance.
i've always been disapointed with "apologetic" stances. for me it boils down to a fetish, not in a creepy way but in a preferencial kind of way. i am atracted to black chicks, i had a huge fetish for older women and i find it hot my girlfriend is a few years older than me. now do i need to explain those urges and preferences through biology or can i just say i dig brown suger. when gay people make the argument "i was born this way" to me that means you have no choice. it's like people making fun of you for wearing an x-men t-shirt and saying "my parents make me wear it." that may be true but if you're also a huge x-men fan it's horribly disengenuise. to publicly state you have no control over your own sexuality is to in essence make an excuse. and there is no excuse for homosexuality it's just what narfles your garthax. it's no different than a foot fetish or being into spanking. if you dig it you dig it, end of discussion.
i've always been disapointed with "apologetic" stances. for me it boils down to a fetish, not in a creepy way but in a preferencial kind of way. i am atracted to black chicks, i had a huge fetish for older women and i find it hot my girlfriend is a few years older than me. now do i need to explain those urges and preferences through biology or can i just say i dig brown suger. when gay people make the argument "i was born this way" to me that means you have no choice. it's like people making fun of you for wearing an x-men t-shirt and saying "my parents make me wear it." that may be true but if you're also a huge x-men fan it's horribly disengenuise. to publicly state you have no control over your own sexuality is to in essence make an excuse. and there is no excuse for homosexuality it's just what narfles your garthax. it's no different than a foot fetish or being into spanking. if you dig it you dig it, end of discussion.
Sexual deviancy has been in and out of medical handbooks forever, that's just a testament to how much these things are cultural. And the gay movement didn't even exist before the 20th century, just people practicing sodomy. Most don't even realize that they hold radically different beliefs from people from 50 years ago, because the media brainwashed them into it: Americans find it normal to clash with their parents beliefs, and then believe everything the tv tells them.
So no, there are no sacred cows and you can stuff meds into someone until he feels pain at the mere thought of gay. But you would just be forcing him to discard his rational decision to like it.
So no, there are no sacred cows and you can stuff meds into someone until he feels pain at the mere thought of gay. But you would just be forcing him to discard his rational decision to like it.
The word 'cure' implies some kind of disease which transsexuality or homosexuality obviously isn't. There's nothing wrong with it. There's something deeply wrong with a society that is still quite transphobic and homophobic. So if there would be a 'cure'. Give it those ignorant, unaccepting people and not to them.
Shit parents who shame and abuse their child because it is not how they wanted ARE PROBLEMS which affect the CHILD negatively. and how.krazykidd said:
The problem is not the gayness, the problem is the society and parents which have problems them self but decide to put their weight on their children.
i would support a cure for parents. (oh, well, there is:family-counseling-therapy.)
Tis slows or ends the evolution into a tolerant society. people who demand that other fit their ideas need to be stopped, not supported. We cant just force other people to change so that wee feel better because we are uncomfortable around certain people.
Also dont you think that its really really sick that parents are to decide which person their child loves? This seems like a new idea of eugenics. (And who is to decide which gender is the right one, which colour is the right one (white, of course *würg*)which hair&eye-clolour, which size..
the terror of the privileged majority would have a very good weapon. because of privilege, they woudl have the position to force people.
a little dystopian idea:
example:if you want to be american, all of your future (american)children will have to be heterosexual, white, either male OR female (all needed characteristics listed under 2.1. optional customization see: list 3.1 and 3.2) Christian, will need a maximum age-cap of 85 and an IQ of 115-125)
If you fail to administer Cures if deemed necessary, you will get deported and your children will too. No People of your genetic lineage will be able to immigrate into the glorious of the C.U.S.A.A
Well, that sounds orwellian indeed, or not?
If you fail to administer Cures if deemed necessary, you will get deported and your children will too. No People of your genetic lineage will be able to immigrate into the glorious of the C.U.S.A.A
Well, that sounds orwellian indeed, or not?
are you religious? Are you okay with parents forcing an exorcism on their child because they "think" their child is possessed? (If the child dies, eh, so what, the demon was too strong..)because that would be the same..
forcing the victim of harassment, abuse and discrimination to change and to "integrate" is just wrong-because not the victim has problems with the *ism (racism, sexism etc) but the people who are *phobic and force their victims to bend them self until they are broken, just to fit the sick ideals of people who are shit(because THEY, the phobic ones have the problems, but instead of admitting it and changing, they demand change of other people and will force that change on others through violent or through this sick idea (which gets, by the way, already enforced. Example:"anti-homo-therapy" (which is correctly regarded as human-rights-violation) or operations which alter the phenotype of one intersex-persons* This stuff is just genital mutilation made pretty)
this prevents the sick society from changing and administers all the pain, violence and weight on the people which just need to be accepted the way they are. But instead, they get force to submit under the ideals of people, which are in NO way negatively affected(but the people who are homosexual, trans or inter are.)
that's neither fair nor right.
if you allow parents to decide which person their child will love or which gender their child is, then you could just allow one random group to decide for all society what is right or wrong. we could get back theocracy-the church says, women have to be so, en so, everybody who is unsure who zie is or whom zie will loves get told who they are and who they will need to love and every person who dont submit gets the cure.
(i dont see that big of a difference. Freedom means freedom of expression-and that includes the expression of who you are. And nobody has the right to decide that for you. (only if you force that upon others or if your freedom actively harms other people)
brave new world?
people who have a problem that their child might be gay or trans should not be able to decide to change the sexual orientation or sex/gender-society should take the children away and give them to people who are able to love them for what they are and not for what they think they should be.
*(e.h a person who has no breasts, a micropenis but also a womb, oviducts and eggs gets a sterilisatuon, the removal of the cells which produce the female hormones and also the womb. This gets made in childhood and the intersex-childis raised as male-but feels wrong, gets depressed and ill(intersex persons with forced gender reassignment have a very high suicide rate, meddling with hormones (if you remove important hormone producing cells, you may be forced to take pills forever. But this can lead to imbalances and pretty dire mood-problems and other psychological problems) because their parenst choose their gender without asking them.
It seems, that society collapses if there is more than just 2 genders&sexes.
Another thing is the making of a neo-vagina out of skin-which is rather stiff and has to be widened with dildos by the parents. A child gets regularly "raped" by parents because they couldn't let the child wait and decide for itself which gender it has. And another big problem of forced-genital-mutilation-to-enforce-a-gender-thing: These Intersex-people often get sterilized in the process in child age. (some might have been fertile if the people had decided to wait and let their child decide what to do with its OWN body&mind) So people get sick, suicidal, sterile, mutilated and deeply traumatized because their parents and doctors have a fucking problem-the enforced gender roles of our society. Isn't that sick? And then in this hypothetical idea, the society had jet another chance do do harm on helpless children because it has a fucking problem. That IS sick.
saying homosexuality is a disease, is not much better than suggesting it is caused by pregnancy complications. basically it amounts to the same thing. "theres somthing wrong with you" is what youre saying.Wraith said:
you might do better to ask people if they would change their sexuality if they could.
OT no. i wouldnt "cure" homosexuality. mainly because the only problems with gay people are caused by people who hate/judge them in a most childish and ignorant way.
If we lived in a society where there was no outward pressure to choose one sexuality or identify with one gender then I would support this idea because it would give people the freedom to control aspects of their lives which are highly personal.
The problem is we don't live in such a society and if a 'cure' was made for homosexuality and transsexualism there would be a huge pressure for people to take it. I know people who 'came out of the closet' and their parents disowned them. Given the choice, this girl would give up her sexuality just because she'd want to talk to her family again.
The problem is we don't live in such a society and if a 'cure' was made for homosexuality and transsexualism there would be a huge pressure for people to take it. I know people who 'came out of the closet' and their parents disowned them. Given the choice, this girl would give up her sexuality just because she'd want to talk to her family again.
So it's okay if it only temporarily makes you a different person? Even if we're still talking a lifetime treatment?Warachia said:
What about HRT? HRT changes the way you react to the world. It's noted and common for your sexuality to be altered after hormones. your relationships change quite often because you're "a different person."
Because she doesn't.
Of course, you keep insisting that after it's been explained you've got it wrong. But hey, why stop there.
Anyway, it's the last time I'll entertain that topic. I'm curious as to how your "it's different because ponies" argument will continue to evolve, but I've got no real interest in your inability to parse for meaning.
Apparently.Ruzinus said:
Obviously, since it flies in the face of the medical and psychiatric communities. I doubt anyone was going to go around mistaking it for fact or similar.kurupt87 said:
Well, sure. Of course, it'd be voluntary. Pedophiles are classified as having a mental disease. Zoophilia is, too. Necrophilia as well. These people obviously need help, so if they want to, why not help those who are struggling with homosexuality? I mean, I'm A-OK with it, and I'd never classify the gay with the previous three mentioned mental issues, but everyone should be given a choice, I suppose. And if the technology for it can be discovered, let people have at it if they so wish.
I hope this doesn't upset anyone or anything, that's not my intention. But, if it does, Sorry. Just stating my thoughts.
I hope this doesn't upset anyone or anything, that's not my intention. But, if it does, Sorry. Just stating my thoughts.
Of course, if we lived in that society, a "cure" wouldn't be necessary for homosexuality.AngloDoom said:
Gender identity is another thing entirely, since the whole underlying concept of a transsexual is someone not only with gender identity issues, but identity issues so strong they cause distress and the like.
That's why the diagnosis for transsexualism is "gender dysphoria" or "Gender Identity Disorder."Vanorae said:
There's nothing wrong with it. There's nothing wrong with it to such an extent that our bodies require "correction" to feel right.
I wouldn't, which may seem weird because I've already mentioned in this thread there's a very good chance I'd take a cure for transsexuality.Carrots_macduff said:
The reason being that one is outward and one is inward. If the only reason that bisexuality causes me distress is external forces, that's the problem of the people causing it. On the other hand, a perfect world would still mean gender dysphoria or Gender Identity Disorder, an overall sense that something was particularly wrong with me. Internally driven by definition.
And it is totally, utterly fair to label the whole according to the extremists. Are you white? Shall I label you as a Klanny, because there are extremist whites who preach a message of hate? Are you straight? Shall I label you a terrorist, since so many "concerned" heterosexuals have gone out of their way to threaten gay establishments? Are you male? Shall I lump you in with rapists? Are you female? Perhaps you are one of those radical feminazis who run around castrating people.Sleekit said:
No, because that's inane. Lumping the majority under the banner of the minority is ridiculous. Those feminists get mocked outside of their own little bubble, by the way. Michfest, the "womynz" festival gets berated to the point the "womyn" who attend have a massive persecution complex. Which is the natural cycle of the zealot.
Dan Savage is hated by a good chunk of the LGBT community, including homosexuals, for his ramblings about bisexuality. Sure, the attitude exists, but it doesn't mean it's prevalent. It was 30 years ago, yes, but think of all the things that have changed in 30 years.
Evidence has existed since the 90s saying that pedophilia is effectively a sexuality, not so much a disease. The psychiatric definition has changed as our understanding has expanded.dave1004 said:
I understand that, in pointing this out, I'm doing something fairly unpopular. But let me be clear: I am not saying it's okay to act on it, nor am I saying this delegitimises homosexuality. Claims that they're similar in any but the most technical sense are crap. One involves someone who can't legally consent to just about anything in our culture because they don't understand the repercussions, and the other asks for fair treatment of two consenting adults.
that being said, the evidence exists that pedophiles can't be "treated" or "cured," only told not to act on their impulses. And while it's unfortunate for them, the alternative would be unfair to their victims.
But if you would NEVER classify pedophilia with homosexuality, you're out of touch with the medical/psych community.
I always hate talking about this, because I always worry I'm going to get pegged as pro-pedophile. And I'm not.
Homosexuals, no. Because I can't really see it as a problem for a person, save preassure from society.
Transexualism on the other hand, I would support a cure. If you Wake up every day and feel like you are born into the wrong gender - and I'm not saying this to be cruel - you're delusional, and need help.
From my Point of view, thinking that you've been born into the wrong gender is like thinking you're Napoleon: it's not just true.
Transexualism on the other hand, I would support a cure. If you Wake up every day and feel like you are born into the wrong gender - and I'm not saying this to be cruel - you're delusional, and need help.
From my Point of view, thinking that you've been born into the wrong gender is like thinking you're Napoleon: it's not just true.
Cure what? I was unaware homosexuality and transsexualism were diseases.
Now, if a person is seeking a gender change. That's different. It's their right to do what they want regardless of how someone else may feel about it.
I don't like equating these matters to a disease to be cured. They're perfectly natural things.
Now, if a person is seeking a gender change. That's different. It's their right to do what they want regardless of how someone else may feel about it.
I don't like equating these matters to a disease to be cured. They're perfectly natural things.
1. Humans are rarely, if ever just a simple "likes one gender, doesn't like the other." Most people, if they are aware of it or not, are some shade of grey between the extremes ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_scale ).
2. What people believe has no barring on the reality of many situations (for example, saying the sun orbits the Earth will not make it so).
3. Homosexuality is not a debilitating condition, besides societal the problems SOCIETY creates for gay people.
4. Every "gay cure" we have come up with has never worked. Drugs nor psychology can really change what the mind loves and the crotch desires.
Now, in this scenario, I wouldn't support it. Many things about a person change in the womb. I wouldn't trust modern medicine to be able to detect "gayness" or "transsexuality" with 100% accuracy, nor do I think it would be good for any child to just start injecting chemicals into a womb and not have bad side effects
2. What people believe has no barring on the reality of many situations (for example, saying the sun orbits the Earth will not make it so).
3. Homosexuality is not a debilitating condition, besides societal the problems SOCIETY creates for gay people.
4. Every "gay cure" we have come up with has never worked. Drugs nor psychology can really change what the mind loves and the crotch desires.
Now, in this scenario, I wouldn't support it. Many things about a person change in the womb. I wouldn't trust modern medicine to be able to detect "gayness" or "transsexuality" with 100% accuracy, nor do I think it would be good for any child to just start injecting chemicals into a womb and not have bad side effects