X-Com 2 confusion (potential spoilers!)

[Ihateregistering1]

So I just started playing X-Com 2 today and I've sunk about 5 hours into it. So far, much of the game seems great. However, I'm very stuck on one aspect and it feels like I'm missing something obvious.

Advent Stun Lancers.

Look, I get that X-Com is supposed to be difficult, but this is just bonkers. These guys can run clear across the map and hit you with a melee attack (that is basically a guaranteed hit) that knocks you unconscious. As far as I can tell, unconscious Soldiers cannot be revived and are, for all intents and purposes, dead for that mission. Hell, they're even worse than dead, since you have to take another Soldier out of the conflict in order to carry them to the evac point.

So is there a way to revive unconscious Soldiers? Even for X-Com, the idea of a unit that is essentially one hit kill is just insane. Even the freakin' Berserkers in X-Com 1 generally didn't kill in one hit, and they didn't have nearly the rush range that Stun Lancers do. To make matters worse, you can't just do the 'turtle and overwatch' thing, since so many of the missions have time limits on them.

I just feel like I'm missing something. I'm not an X-Com expert, but this seems absurdly difficult even by their standards.

 

[Zenja]

Sounds like a difficulty level issue for the most part. I started playing on Veteran and Stun Lancers can't 1 hit kill on veteran. However, yes this is by far the hardest Xcom game. I dont like that basically every mission has turn timers, and that those turn timers arent flexible. (Like how you could add turns with the charge cores on bomb missions on 1.) It acts like it encourages stealth, but the turn timer discourages stealth. Based on the map, I may just run in guns blazing so I can beeline the target objective and not dance around it. The turn timers really need modded. Most maps should give you like 30 turns or something but the most I have seen so far is 12. Really if they just doubled it, it would work. Although most missions are 8 turns. So I have 8 (or 12) turns to kill 8-14 aliens with 4 troops and whatever the objective is and the game, for some reason, is encouraging stealth. (Turns where I don't kill anyone.)

As for stun lancers, they dont bother me playing on veteran. Snakemen (Vipers) are pretty tough for me. Plus, the new sectoids are not only tough but way more annoying. I try to focus on them first. I am a little disappointing at the difficulty spike in this game like it is trying to be Dark Souls of TBS when Xcom was never really known for difficulty. The original was pretty easy, and the remake was more that when you suffer a loss to the squad, it was almost devastating. Maybe the community around Xcom celebrates being able to defeat Impossible? I don't know.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

Unconscious can be removed by anyone with a medkit by using the stabilize option. Specialists with a certain perk (forgot its' name) can also have their Gremlin remove status effects like Unconscious.

 

[Comic Sans]

I just made a comment on them in the other Xcom thread. Good god the Advent Lancers are fucking ridiculous on Commander. I don't understand what the counter to them is supposed to be. They can move insanely far, depending on your damage rolls can take 2 or 3 hits to kill, and can take down a rookie in a single hit. And even if the target survives, there's a good chance they will be disoriented and useless. The odds are already insanely stacked against you in these missions, especially with how close enemy mobs tend to be to each other and their huge aggro range, the Lancer ability to instantly remove someone from your squad is absolutely bonkers on these early missions

 

[Zenja]

There is a decent mod on Steam workshop that adds 4 turns to the timer on standard missions and 2 turns on UFO missions. I am going to try it out, then the same guy made one where he disabled the turn timers. I can'y do this 8 and 12 turn stuff anymore. It already hurts bad enough when I lose soldiers tactically planning, now the game is pushing them into high risk situations. In the words of Ace Ventura, "Hey, what are ya? H.R. Shove and stuff?"

 

[laggyteabag]

You can revive them with a Specialist's Gremlin, if you take a certain perk, but yeah, I am playing on Commander difficulty, and for the most part, the game is fun but challenging, but these guys just take the piss. You can be on the top of a building, and a Lancer can be at the bottom, and this guy will just sprint straight up the side of it, and then poke your soldier with a stun baton. It would be a lot better if the Lancer's AI was more concerned about survival, but nope, these guys will run straight into your front lines, and poke you with with his electric stick. Be damned if he gets shot down next turn, his purpose has already been fulfilled. They kinda remind me of Chrysalids, just without the zombie part.

I guess that it is only fair, seeing as your Rangers have the same ability, but holy damn, I have had my soldiers OSK or knocked out, more times than I can count, already.

 

[Wuvlycuddles]

Plenty of ways to deal with melee aliens, Flashbangs, suppression, the Rangers Bladestorm ability and also positioning your guys so your overwatch triggers at closer ranges helps too.

 

[Veldel]

Playing Ironman Commander

Stun Lancers are a pain but if you can get some Bladestorm Rangers you can counter them.


That's the best bet I got for you or wait for a pod to trigger then Kill Zone it and pray to RNGESUS

 

[Zhukov]

Flashbang them. Flashbangs drastically lower their movement range and their chances to hit, giving you more time to kite them out.

Bladestorm rangers on overwatch will also ruin their day. They'll shoot them as they charge then slash them when they close in.

 

[The Eupho Guy_v1legacy]

Unconscious can be removed by anyone with a medkit by using the stabilize option. Specialists with a certain perk (forgot its' name) can also have their Gremlin remove status effects like Unconscious.

Its the Sergeant unlock in the battle medic tree, revival protocol.

OT: I had a couple lancers drop in on my first blacksite attempt. As with Laggyteabag, I had both of them basically run up the side of a building to say hi to my sharpshooter. She was disoriented with the first hit and the second hit somehow wiffed, otherwise I would've been down an (admittedly badass) corporal. Other than that run in, I haven't had too many issues with them, though. Admittedly, apart from that moment and the first time I saw one I've either set overwatch traps for them or they've been ripped apart in the opening salvo of a mission. Sectoids and Vipers on the other hand...

 

[Amaror]

Personally their range and damage isn't really the problem. What makes them Number 1 priority to kill in any situation is that they seem to be extra good at dodging overwatch shots. I don't even bother to do overwatch against them anymore because it just never hit. Like ever.
But I found flashbangs to be good against them. When they're dazed, or however it's called, they usually just shoot at you instead of running in, so it buys you another round to go and kill them.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

Unconscious can be removed by anyone with a medkit by using the stabilize option. Specialists with a certain perk (forgot its' name) can also have their Gremlin remove status effects like Unconscious.

Aha! Knew I missed something. Yeah, I tried reviving them with a medkit, but I think I used heal instead of stabilize.

Regardless, I think I'm going to try modding the # of turns for the games time-sensitive missions, 8-12 is just too few, especially considering the game is supposed to put a greater emphasis on stealth.

I think it would have been better for the turn timer to only start once you break concealment. This makes a lot more sense too (after all, why would the Aliens be calling in reinforcements if they don't even know anyone is there?).

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

So far, as far as Timers go I think they're juuust about almost fine. I haven't raided the first blacksite yet (Every time I think I'm ready to go for it, I get a super important mission and I lose or gravely injure a vital soldier ;_, but so far, I've only timed out once, and it was because I REALLY took my sweet time in the first few turns of the mission.

So far, maybe adding one or two turns to the timers would be perfect, or allow us to gain extra turns by hacking stuff would make it perfect.

I DO hear you on the stun lancers, though. ;_; I lost a guy because he got stunned by a Lancer that dashed out of nowhere, my one overwatch left missed him and I totally forgot about my downed grenadier and then I left him behind by accident.

...Still, though, that's not the thing that made me rage the most. Freakin

Spoiler: Very early game enemy spoilers

The sectoids START with goddamn mind control now. My shotgun weilding badass changed sides and then rushed my tier-3 medic and one shot him and there was NOTHING I could do. At least in Enemy Unknown I had Disabling Shot by the time mind control entered the equation. Not to mention, a Faceless ganking one of my guys out of freakin' nowhere. How was I supposed to be prepared for that?!

 

[Amaror]

Yeah I think the worst enemies are those that you have few or no counters against.
The Stun Lancers are bad, but at least you have the ability to kill them before they come rushing your guys.
The Faceless, at least at the start of the campaign, take half your soldiers health, appear basically out of nowhere and can act immediatly when they are revealed meaning you have no turn to react to the new enemy, like you do with other enemies.

 

[Don Incognito]

Bladestorm rangers on overwatch will also ruin their day. They'll shoot them as they charge then slash them when they close in.

Oh wow. Why didn't I think of that? That's brilliant! Thanks for the tip.

 

[DoPo]

Spoiler: Very early game enemy spoilers

The sectoids START with goddamn mind control now. My shotgun weilding badass changed sides and then rushed my tier-3 medic and one shot him and there was NOTHING I could do. At least in Enemy Unknown I had Disabling Shot by the time mind control entered the equation. Not to mention, a Faceless ganking one of my guys out of freakin' nowhere. How was I supposed to be prepared for that?!

Spoiler: in response

Yeah, the sectoids are nasty, but I found they aren't as much of a threat as I thought they'd be. Usually they show up with one other guy in a pod, so if you kill the guy, the sectoid is a bit useless. Sure, it can mind control or panic one of your guys directly taking them out for next turn (at least) or it can use "distract" which indirectly takes them out (due to the crap aim). The Psi zombie is also not nice. Still, the thing is that you get to keep the affected soldier - unlike if they get shot. Even if the soldier survives, taking damage means they are out for the next few missions - one of my rangers got dealt 2 damage and was listed as "Gravely Wounded". That was bad.

At any rate, even though the sectoid can take out one guy, you can then shoot it with three (hopefully) which has a high chance to take it down on turn 2 after seeing it. This would also break psi panic and mind control, as well as destroy psi zombie, so you'll recover your affected soldier for the following turn.

What also helps with dealing with sectoids is grenadiers. When I find a pod with a sectoid and somebody else (often a lancer), I try to grenade them both, if possible. Or at the very least, damage one (it's good if it's the sectoid) and blow the other one out of cover, then proceed to kill the sectoid's buddy. If you're lucky, you may use up two soldiers to kill its buddy and that would get you a hit with your fourth soldier on it. Otherwise, you'll have three hits (at least) on following turn, and the sectoid would be missing 3-4 heatlth, to boot, almost guaranteeing a kill.

With some level ups and some upgrades, it becomes even easier to deal with them.

On the other hand, if you manage to trigger two sectoids...well, better pray. It happened to me once, and I did pray. I managed to get out of that situation OK. Well, one dead soldier, but still - the other 3 didn't get a scratch. Overall, it was a success, especially since I had a rookie in a squad of tier 1 soldiers, since it was near the beginning.

 

[Silverbeard]

Stun lancers are tough chaps, no question, but the key is not to go towards them. Any time I trigger a stun lancer I immediately move in the other direction. Oftentimes I don't even bother shooting at them. They'll always chase you on your turn but they usually don't have the movement range to reach your people. So by the start of your turn, the Lancer has moved far out of the range of his other buddies and is almost always in low cover with your people well primed to get flanking shots on the lancer.
Two moves later, the lancer is dead good and proper!
Of course this goes out the window if you trigger the lancer on the last move of your last soldier but that's pretty much true of Enemy Unknown as well. Activating an enemy pod as your last action is a guaranteed way to die horribly. In those instances, I go to flashbangs. By that time the lancer's probably already sticking his shiv in one of my soldier's guts and I do usually end up flashbanging my own soldier but If he's already disoriented then it doesn't matter as much and it's worth it just to take the lancer out of the game for a turn while I mop up his other mates.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

The answer to both Sectoids and Lancers is flashbangs. Where lancers will really cripple you is if they hit a rookie-full group early in the campaign, more than one will be an almost unmanageable threat. You just don't have the DPS to put them down before they wreak havoc. They drop off as a threat after gauss/magnetic weaponry, and once you start regularly bringing 2+ flashbangs on every mission.

I am a little disappointing at the difficulty spike in this game like it is trying to be Dark Souls of TBS when Xcom was never really known for difficulty. The original was pretty easy, and the remake was more that when you suffer a loss to the squad, it was almost devastating. Maybe the community around Xcom celebrates being able to defeat Impossible? I don't know.

XCOM was always renowned for...if not overpowering difficulty...at least an overwhelming capricious viciousness. To quote Jake Solomon:

But for all of its unpredictability, X-Com was not cruel. It did not delight in your failures. It simply did not care. It did not care if you slowly clawed your way to victory or if you fell, and the entire Earth fell with you. X-Com did not take the time to congratulate you or admonish you with silly snips of music, or gaudy showers of UI, or bombastic cinematics. X-Com just kept the dark wheels of its simulation turning, inexorably turning.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

Spoiler: Very early game enemy spoilers

The sectoids START with goddamn mind control now. My shotgun weilding badass changed sides and then rushed my tier-3 medic and one shot him and there was NOTHING I could do. At least in Enemy Unknown I had Disabling Shot by the time mind control entered the equation. Not to mention, a Faceless ganking one of my guys out of freakin' nowhere. How was I supposed to be prepared for that?!

Spoiler: in response

Yeah, the sectoids are nasty, but I found they aren't as much of a threat as I thought they'd be. Usually they show up with one other guy in a pod, so if you kill the guy, the sectoid is a bit useless. Sure, it can mind control or panic one of your guys directly taking them out for next turn (at least) or it can use "distract" which indirectly takes them out (due to the crap aim). The Psi zombie is also not nice. Still, the thing is that you get to keep the affected soldier - unlike if they get shot. Even if the soldier survives, taking damage means they are out for the next few missions - one of my rangers got dealt 2 damage and was listed as "Gravely Wounded". That was bad.

At any rate, even though the sectoid can take out one guy, you can then shoot it with three (hopefully) which has a high chance to take it down on turn 2 after seeing it. This would also break psi panic and mind control, as well as destroy psi zombie, so you'll recover your affected soldier for the following turn.

What also helps with dealing with sectoids is grenadiers. When I find a pod with a sectoid and somebody else (often a lancer), I try to grenade them both, if possible. Or at the very least, damage one (it's good if it's the sectoid) and blow the other one out of cover, then proceed to kill the sectoid's buddy. If you're lucky, you may use up two soldiers to kill its buddy and that would get you a hit with your fourth soldier on it. Otherwise, you'll have three hits (at least) on following turn, and the sectoid would be missing 3-4 heatlth, to boot, almost guaranteeing a kill.

With some level ups and some upgrades, it becomes even easier to deal with them.

On the other hand, if you manage to trigger two sectoids...well, better pray. It happened to me once, and I did pray. I managed to get out of that situation OK. Well, one dead soldier, but still - the other 3 didn't get a scratch. Overall, it was a success, especially since I had a rookie in a squad of tier 1 soldiers, since it was near the beginning.

I'm inclined to agree. I had 2 issues with the Sectoids having mind control
1: When one of your guys get's mind-controlled for the first time in EU/EW, it's a really impactful, "HOLY SHIT!!" moment. In X-Com 2, literally the 2nd freaking enemy type you encounter does it, so it just loses a lot of the oomph it could potentially have.
2: It feels like Firaxis, in order to balance things, made the Sectoids really, really stupid in order to balance the game. I've had multiple occasions where a Sectoid had a perfectly lined up flanking shot on one of my guys that likely would have killed him, and instead he'll just do reanimate, and then I'll promptly kill him the next turn, so re-animate was useless.
It's like Firaxis realized after the fact that the Sectoids were way too powerful, so they said "oh well shit, let's just make them really dumb then".

 

[DoPo]

2: It feels like Firaxis, in order to balance things, made the Sectoids really, really stupid in order to balance the game. I've had multiple occasions where a Sectoid had a perfectly lined up flanking shot on one of my guys that likely would have killed him, and instead he'll just do reanimate, and then I'll promptly kill him the next turn, so re-animate was useless.

Yeah, you know what - I just played a mission in which the sectoid shot. I didn't even know they could shoot! I'm serious - I've soldiers around them that would have been really easy to flank, but they had never done that, so, I thought they only had psi abilities. They hadn't actually taken a shot ever in the 10 missions I've played. I think this one was actually the 10th but still.

I think this one sectoid may have shot now, since I had an exposed soldier there. Again, since I didn't know they could kill one just like that.