Xbox 720 is another iPhone 4S!!

[Hateren47]

another fun aspect no one has brought up yet:

already now you can easily assemble a PC that outperforms the specs of the xbox720 by far for arround 300-400 bucks. how is that going to be in almost 2 years when it actually comes out? the thing is probably not going to cost only 400 on release.

and console fanboys cry PCs would be expensive.

Utter fucking bullshit.

A case. A hard drive. A motherboard. RAM. Video Card. Cooling. Power supply. And since a 360 will come with at least 1 controller, that means for the purpose of this comparison, you'll need to buy at least a keyboard and a mouse. Oh, let's not forget the operating system either! Most PC gamers who toss this argument in usually don't count the OS cost because they just pirate that anyway.

For less than $400? Yeah, keep fucking dreaming. I find it funny that so many people who want to say "you can build your own for DIS MUCH" seem to forget that a computer isn't just a video card taped to a hard drive with wires coming out of it.

checking the website of my favorit hardware store in my town:

phenom II X4 955 BE - 1800 crowns
zalman CNPS7X LED - 500 crows
MSI 870-C45 - 1000 crowns
Kingston HyperX 8 GB kit - 750 crowns
XFX HD 6870 Dual Fan - 2750 crowns
Sound is onboard - 0 crowns
Seage Barracuda 7.2 (1 TB, going a bit overboard here, but what the hell, i got wiggle room) - 1000 crowns
LG GH22NS70 (bulk) - 300 crowns
Bitfenix Shinoby (rather nice case actually, you could save a lot here if need be) - 800 crowns
Antex HC Gamer 620 Watt (absolute overkill for that rig actually) - 1420 crowns

leaves us at 10320 crowns, a tiny bit over 400 euros. toss in some peripheral devices and you are set. if you need to save money for an OS, just take a less insane Power Unit or Case. not sure how much a windows license actually costs, here you get them thrown after you for free, for example if you are a student. hell, the graphic card is about 2,5 times as powerfull as what the xbox720 is going to have, and you don't really "need" a full Terrabyte either. you could easily make concessions worth 100 euros or more there if you need to make cuts, and STILL come out better than the new xbox.

and all that is before overclocking and similar fun stuff.

there. that was just some random rig i crapped out of the top of my brain, without comparing prices or doing any research, AND it got fancy bullshit components like LED lights and rather generous hard disk space and power supply.
and it utterly curbstomps the 720.
it can do everything it can do better, and a ton more. if one is hell bent on the console experience one could rig it up to a big TV and a gamepad and get the full console experience, with better graphics and more customization for less money.

and all that are the prices TODAY. in almost two years, when the new xbox comes out, you will be able to assemble this kind of system for the price of a dinner for two in a fancy restaurant.

"Toss in peripherals"? Yes, because PC gamers play with $5 keyboad/mouse combos. Your keyboard/mouse will definitely be more expensive than that. Probably in the $40 to $50 range.

And what if you're not a student? What will you do then? Just doing a bit of Googling, it seems that it costs 149 Euros for just the Home Premium version (and no, this is the full version, not the update. You need the full version).

When you add up the above, by the way, including a hypothetical $30 kb/mouse combo (which probably isn't that good anyway), we're now up to 570 euros.

By the way, I said 400 bucks, not 400 euros. That means dollars. 400 euros is not 400 dollars, it's about 530 USD.

If we add up the keyboard and the cost of the operating system (because you know, you can't do all that "fun stuff" without an operating system), it should interest you to know that's almost $750.

You're not going to win this argument, please give up.

Well to be fair the 360 did cost 400-ish eur at release in the eurozone. Linky-pooh [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_launch#Release_dates_and_pricing]

 

[Kathinka]

another fun aspect no one has brought up yet:

already now you can easily assemble a PC that outperforms the specs of the xbox720 by far for arround 300-400 bucks. how is that going to be in almost 2 years when it actually comes out? the thing is probably not going to cost only 400 on release.

and console fanboys cry PCs would be expensive.

Utter fucking bullshit.

A case. A hard drive. A motherboard. RAM. Video Card. Cooling. Power supply. And since a 360 will come with at least 1 controller, that means for the purpose of this comparison, you'll need to buy at least a keyboard and a mouse. Oh, let's not forget the operating system either! Most PC gamers who toss this argument in usually don't count the OS cost because they just pirate that anyway.

For less than $400? Yeah, keep fucking dreaming. I find it funny that so many people who want to say "you can build your own for DIS MUCH" seem to forget that a computer isn't just a video card taped to a hard drive with wires coming out of it.

checking the website of my favorit hardware store in my town:

phenom II X4 955 BE - 1800 crowns
zalman CNPS7X LED - 500 crows
MSI 870-C45 - 1000 crowns
Kingston HyperX 8 GB kit - 750 crowns
XFX HD 6870 Dual Fan - 2750 crowns
Sound is onboard - 0 crowns
Seage Barracuda 7.2 (1 TB, going a bit overboard here, but what the hell, i got wiggle room) - 1000 crowns
LG GH22NS70 (bulk) - 300 crowns
Bitfenix Shinoby (rather nice case actually, you could save a lot here if need be) - 800 crowns
Antex HC Gamer 620 Watt (absolute overkill for that rig actually) - 1420 crowns

leaves us at 10320 crowns, a tiny bit over 400 euros. toss in some peripheral devices and you are set. if you need to save money for an OS, just take a less insane Power Unit or Case. not sure how much a windows license actually costs, here you get them thrown after you for free, for example if you are a student. hell, the graphic card is about 2,5 times as powerfull as what the xbox720 is going to have, and you don't really "need" a full Terrabyte either. you could easily make concessions worth 100 euros or more there if you need to make cuts, and STILL come out better than the new xbox.

and all that is before overclocking and similar fun stuff.

there. that was just some random rig i crapped out of the top of my brain, without comparing prices or doing any research, AND it got fancy bullshit components like LED lights and rather generous hard disk space and power supply.
and it utterly curbstomps the 720.
it can do everything it can do better, and a ton more. if one is hell bent on the console experience one could rig it up to a big TV and a gamepad and get the full console experience, with better graphics and more customization for less money.

and all that are the prices TODAY. in almost two years, when the new xbox comes out, you will be able to assemble this kind of system for the price of a dinner for two in a fancy restaurant.

"Toss in peripherals"? Yes, because PC gamers play with $5 keyboad/mouse combos. Your keyboard/mouse will definitely be more expensive than that. Probably in the $40 to $50 range.

And what if you're not a student? What will you do then? Just doing a bit of Googling, it seems that it costs 149 Euros for just the Home Premium version (and no, this is the full version, not the update. You need the full version).

When you add up the above, by the way, including a hypothetical $30 kb/mouse combo (which probably isn't that good anyway), we're now up to 570 euros.

By the way, I said 400 bucks, not 400 euros. That means dollars. 400 euros is not 400 dollars, it's about 530 USD.

If we add up the keyboard and the cost of the operating system (because you know, you can't do all that "fun stuff" without an operating system), it should interest you to know that's almost $750.

You're not going to win this argument, please give up.

an euro isn't exactly a dollar, of course, but it still compares. a lot of stuff is more expensive in the EU (often the dollar price, only the dollar sign replaced with an euro sign), but then again, the average income of the EU citizen is also higher, so it compares quite well.

you can get a top tier mouse like a logitec G400 for 25 euros. there are mice that are very very usable in the 10-20 euro range. and any 10-euro-noname-keyboard will do. it has keys. you can play with it. if not, again, some very very usable stuff is to be had for a few bucks more, like the microsoft sidewinder x4 for only 29 euros.

if this rig would blow your budged because you can't get a windows license, as i said, you can make plenty of concessions. case, power supply, hard drive, even graphic card are all grossely overpowered. you can scale down all those things easily and still utterly destroy the next gen consoles.
and again, this is just something i threw together in 30 seconds without much thought to make my point. one could go much, much lower with some research and comparing prices at stores.

please don't rage btw, we can have a serious and civil discussion without personal insults and foam-mouthed fanboyism.

i'm by the way not saying consoles would be useless or something. they have their place in gaming. some people are just unable or unwilling to learn how to build and operate a PC, and those people have the option to get a simple easy-to-use platform, at the sacrifice for less power for a higher cost. it's a viable deal for those who want it, but no one should pretend that cosoles would be a lot of bang for the buck, that's just nonsense, as my above example illustrated.

 

[CarlMin]

I wish people would realise that a console does not need as good specs as a PC as they do a lot more with a lot less.

Be that as it may, but more on a Xbox 720 is still not going to get close to the less of the PC.

If you are planning to buy the next Xbox, just save some money and buy a cheap laptop and you'll get the same or better performance. Heck, you can probably get more power out of a tablet by the time the next Xbox gets released.

 

[Tommeh Brownleh]

If rumors that it will be download only are true, I can firmly say that I will become a Nintendo console and PC only gamer.

 

[boag]

another fun aspect no one has brought up yet:

already now you can easily assemble a PC that outperforms the specs of the xbox720 by far for arround 300-400 bucks. how is that going to be in almost 2 years when it actually comes out? the thing is probably not going to cost only 400 on release.

and console fanboys cry PCs would be expensive.

Utter fucking bullshit.

A case. A hard drive. A motherboard. RAM. Video Card. Cooling. Power supply. And since a 360 will come with at least 1 controller, that means for the purpose of this comparison, you'll need to buy at least a keyboard and a mouse. Oh, let's not forget the operating system either! Most PC gamers who toss this argument in usually don't count the OS cost because they just pirate that anyway.

For less than $400? Yeah, keep fucking dreaming. I find it funny that so many people who want to say "you can build your own for DIS MUCH" seem to forget that a computer isn't just a video card taped to a hard drive with wires coming out of it.

checking the website of my favorit hardware store in my town:

phenom II X4 955 BE - 1800 crowns
zalman CNPS7X LED - 500 crows
MSI 870-C45 - 1000 crowns
Kingston HyperX 8 GB kit - 750 crowns
XFX HD 6870 Dual Fan - 2750 crowns
Sound is onboard - 0 crowns
Seage Barracuda 7.2 (1 TB, going a bit overboard here, but what the hell, i got wiggle room) - 1000 crowns
LG GH22NS70 (bulk) - 300 crowns
Bitfenix Shinoby (rather nice case actually, you could save a lot here if need be) - 800 crowns
Antex HC Gamer 620 Watt (absolute overkill for that rig actually) - 1420 crowns

leaves us at 10320 crowns, a tiny bit over 400 euros. toss in some peripheral devices and you are set. if you need to save money for an OS, just take a less insane Power Unit or Case. not sure how much a windows license actually costs, here you get them thrown after you for free, for example if you are a student. hell, the graphic card is about 2,5 times as powerfull as what the xbox720 is going to have, and you don't really "need" a full Terrabyte either. you could easily make concessions worth 100 euros or more there if you need to make cuts, and STILL come out better than the new xbox.

and all that is before overclocking and similar fun stuff.

there. that was just some random rig i crapped out of the top of my brain, without comparing prices or doing any research, AND it got fancy bullshit components like LED lights and rather generous hard disk space and power supply.
and it utterly curbstomps the 720.
it can do everything it can do better, and a ton more. if one is hell bent on the console experience one could rig it up to a big TV and a gamepad and get the full console experience, with better graphics and more customization for less money.

and all that are the prices TODAY. in almost two years, when the new xbox comes out, you will be able to assemble this kind of system for the price of a dinner for two in a fancy restaurant.

"Toss in peripherals"? Yes, because PC gamers play with $5 keyboad/mouse combos. Your keyboard/mouse will definitely be more expensive than that. Probably in the $40 to $50 range.

And what if you're not a student? What will you do then? Just doing a bit of Googling, it seems that it costs 149 Euros for just the Home Premium version (and no, this is the full version, not the update. You need the full version).

When you add up the above, by the way, including a hypothetical $30 kb/mouse combo (which probably isn't that good anyway), we're now up to 570 euros.

By the way, I said 400 bucks, not 400 euros. That means dollars. 400 euros is not 400 dollars, it's about 530 USD.

If we add up the keyboard and the cost of the operating system (because you know, you can't do all that "fun stuff" without an operating system), it should interest you to know that's almost $750.

You're not going to win this argument, please give up.

an euro isn't exactly a dollar, of course, but it still compares. a lot of stuff is more expensive in the EU (often the dollar price, only the dollar sign replaced with an euro sign), but then again, the average income of the EU citizen is also higher, so it compares quite well.

you can get a top tier mouse like a logitec G400 for 25 euros. there are mice that are very very usable in the 10-20 euro range. and any 10-euro-noname-keyboard will do. it has keys. you can play with it. if not, again, some very very usable stuff is to be had for a few bucks more, like the microsoft sidewinder x4 for only 29 euros.

if this rig would blow your budged because you can't get a windows license, as i said, you can make plenty of concessions. case, power supply, hard drive, even graphic card are all grossely overpowered. you can scale down all those things easily and still utterly destroy the next gen consoles.
and again, this is just something i threw together in 30 seconds without much thought to make my point. one could go much, much lower with some research and comparing prices at stores.

please don't rage btw, we can have a serious and civil discussion without personal insults and foam-mouthed fanboyism.

i'm by the way not saying consoles would be useless or something. they have their place in gaming. some people are just unable or unwilling to learn how to build and operate a PC, and those people have the option to get a simple easy-to-use platform, at the sacrifice for less power for a higher cost. it's a viable deal for those who want it, but no one should pretend that cosoles would be a lot of bang for the buck, that's just nonsense, as my above example illustrated.

Could you please build me a pc including everything that is needed to play, like you would a console for 400 please.

I want to know exactly what I need to get, I dont care what concessions are made, I just want to spen 400 on it, and have enough disk space left to just put in whatever game I want to play.

Can you also find someone that can do it for me for free?

I havent built a maching in ages and quite frankly I dont want the hassle.

Links from stores or products will very much appreciated.

 

[LiquidSolstice]

Nice arbitrary exclusion of steam and flexibility... Flexibility is a huge part of PC gaming. The ability to tweak, mod and create new content is absolutely massive and can add lots of replay value to a game. Not to mention flexibility includes being able to pick whatever input method you wan't and not having to use some fucking retarded piece of shit controller to play an FPS or RTS or anything where you have to aim, definitely increases the fun factor for me. Seriously, who thought that trying to aim with your thumbs would be a good idea? So yes, flexibility does add to how much fun I have playing something and is very much about "gaming itself".

I'm not really going to bother with this, because I'm arguing cost. Everyone in this thread is bitching their asses off about the supposed GPU and how "weak" it is. For the purpose of the argument we're having right now, the only thing PC gamers in this thread seem to be fixated on are graphics. Not ecosystem, not DLC, not "flexibility", not Steam.

But whatever, keep drinking the console kool aid and thinking your crappy little econo-box is better than a PC. Like I said, it's more than just graphics.

Whatever, keep drinking your MASTER RACE PC GAMER kool-aid. I'm not arguing which one is "better", I'm arguing which one is cheaper. Obviously, that has struck a highly insecure nerve inside you that you have to try and brush over that. You've more or less admitted that PC gaming is more expensive, and you're trying to cover it up with a giant helping of
BUT THIS IS WHY ITS BETTERR OMG LOWLY CONSOLE GAMER".

I'll say it again since you decided to change the topic of the discussion; a PC that matches the next 360 cannot be built for the same $400 that the next 360 will supposedly cost.

 

[LiquidSolstice]

another fun aspect no one has brought up yet:

already now you can easily assemble a PC that outperforms the specs of the xbox720 by far for arround 300-400 bucks. how is that going to be in almost 2 years when it actually comes out? the thing is probably not going to cost only 400 on release.

and console fanboys cry PCs would be expensive.

Utter fucking bullshit.

A case. A hard drive. A motherboard. RAM. Video Card. Cooling. Power supply. And since a 360 will come with at least 1 controller, that means for the purpose of this comparison, you'll need to buy at least a keyboard and a mouse. Oh, let's not forget the operating system either! Most PC gamers who toss this argument in usually don't count the OS cost because they just pirate that anyway.

For less than $400? Yeah, keep fucking dreaming. I find it funny that so many people who want to say "you can build your own for DIS MUCH" seem to forget that a computer isn't just a video card taped to a hard drive with wires coming out of it.

checking the website of my favorit hardware store in my town:

phenom II X4 955 BE - 1800 crowns
zalman CNPS7X LED - 500 crows
MSI 870-C45 - 1000 crowns
Kingston HyperX 8 GB kit - 750 crowns
XFX HD 6870 Dual Fan - 2750 crowns
Sound is onboard - 0 crowns
Seage Barracuda 7.2 (1 TB, going a bit overboard here, but what the hell, i got wiggle room) - 1000 crowns
LG GH22NS70 (bulk) - 300 crowns
Bitfenix Shinoby (rather nice case actually, you could save a lot here if need be) - 800 crowns
Antex HC Gamer 620 Watt (absolute overkill for that rig actually) - 1420 crowns

leaves us at 10320 crowns, a tiny bit over 400 euros. toss in some peripheral devices and you are set. if you need to save money for an OS, just take a less insane Power Unit or Case. not sure how much a windows license actually costs, here you get them thrown after you for free, for example if you are a student. hell, the graphic card is about 2,5 times as powerfull as what the xbox720 is going to have, and you don't really "need" a full Terrabyte either. you could easily make concessions worth 100 euros or more there if you need to make cuts, and STILL come out better than the new xbox.

and all that is before overclocking and similar fun stuff.

there. that was just some random rig i crapped out of the top of my brain, without comparing prices or doing any research, AND it got fancy bullshit components like LED lights and rather generous hard disk space and power supply.
and it utterly curbstomps the 720.
it can do everything it can do better, and a ton more. if one is hell bent on the console experience one could rig it up to a big TV and a gamepad and get the full console experience, with better graphics and more customization for less money.

and all that are the prices TODAY. in almost two years, when the new xbox comes out, you will be able to assemble this kind of system for the price of a dinner for two in a fancy restaurant.

"Toss in peripherals"? Yes, because PC gamers play with $5 keyboad/mouse combos. Your keyboard/mouse will definitely be more expensive than that. Probably in the $40 to $50 range.

And what if you're not a student? What will you do then? Just doing a bit of Googling, it seems that it costs 149 Euros for just the Home Premium version (and no, this is the full version, not the update. You need the full version).

When you add up the above, by the way, including a hypothetical $30 kb/mouse combo (which probably isn't that good anyway), we're now up to 570 euros.

By the way, I said 400 bucks, not 400 euros. That means dollars. 400 euros is not 400 dollars, it's about 530 USD.

If we add up the keyboard and the cost of the operating system (because you know, you can't do all that "fun stuff" without an operating system), it should interest you to know that's almost $750.

You're not going to win this argument, please give up.

an euro isn't exactly a dollar, of course, but it still compares. a lot of stuff is more expensive in the EU (often the dollar price, only the dollar sign replaced with an euro sign), but then again, the average income of the EU citizen is also higher, so it compares quite well.

you can get a top tier mouse like a logitec G400 for 25 euros. there are mice that are very very usable in the 10-20 euro range. and any 10-euro-noname-keyboard will do. it has keys. you can play with it. if not, again, some very very usable stuff is to be had for a few bucks more, like the microsoft sidewinder x4 for only 29 euros.

if this rig would blow your budged because you can't get a windows license, as i said, you can make plenty of concessions. case, power supply, hard drive, even graphic card are all grossely overpowered. you can scale down all those things easily and still utterly destroy the next gen consoles.
and again, this is just something i threw together in 30 seconds without much thought to make my point. one could go much, much lower with some research and comparing prices at stores.

please don't rage btw, we can have a serious and civil discussion without personal insults and foam-mouthed fanboyism.

i'm by the way not saying consoles would be useless or something. they have their place in gaming. some people are just unable or unwilling to learn how to build and operate a PC, and those people have the option to get a simple easy-to-use platform, at the sacrifice for less power for a higher cost. it's a viable deal for those who want it, but no one should pretend that cosoles would be a lot of bang for the buck, that's just nonsense, as my above example illustrated.

Could you please build me a pc including everything that is needed to play, like you would a console for 400 please.

I want to know exactly what I need to get, I dont care what concessions are made, I just want to spen 400 on it, and have enough disk space left to just put in whatever game I want to play.

Can you also find someone that can do it for me for free?

I havent built a maching in ages and quite frankly I dont want the hassle.

Links from stores or products will very much appreciated.

But don't you know? In this argument, PC gamers always have a "but" to counter all your wishes.

You: "It costs a lot."
"But it's better if you build it yourself."
You: "It still costs a lot."
"But it's better because you can mod!"
You: "It still costs a lot."
"But you get Steam!"
You: ".....It costs a lot."

PC gamers unfortunately tend to be very hostile to the idea of admitting flaws with their choice of gaming platform (whereas most console gamers are happy to admit the flaws).

 

[Mute52]

But don't you know? In this argument, PC gamers always have a "but" to counter all your wishes.

You: "It costs a lot."
"But it's better if you build it yourself."
You: "It still costs a lot."
"But it's better because you can mod!"
You: "It still costs a lot."
"But you get Steam!"
You: ".....It costs a lot."

PC gamers unfortunately tend to be very hostile to the idea of admitting flaws with their choice of gaming platform (whereas most console gamers are happy to admit the flaws).

If you want the best possible gaming experience, you play games on PC.
This new Xbox won't even be able to do things PC's have been able to do for a while.
You pay $50 a year to play games online, with little to no extra benefits.
If you add that up over the years of playing Xbox (not even every possible year), that's about $200 of just Xbox live service charges.

Also a computer can do more than an Xbox, it's not limited to an ad-spewing, new-game only machine. It is a much better choice in terms of utility, along with beating the Xbox at the only thing it can do. Your Xbox couldn't even upload that post you made. The amount of purchase justification for buying an Xbox is quite entertaining.

 

[LiquidSolstice]

But don't you know? In this argument, PC gamers always have a "but" to counter all your wishes.

You: "It costs a lot."
"But it's better if you build it yourself."
You: "It still costs a lot."
"But it's better because you can mod!"
You: "It still costs a lot."
"But you get Steam!"
You: ".....It costs a lot."

PC gamers unfortunately tend to be very hostile to the idea of admitting flaws with their choice of gaming platform (whereas most console gamers are happy to admit the flaws).

If you want the best possible gaming experience, you play games on PC.
This new Xbox won't even be able to do things PC's have been able to do for a while.
You pay $50 a year to play games online, with little to no extra benefits.
If you add that up over the years of playing Xbox (not even every possible year), that's about $200 of just Xbox live service charges.

Also a computer can do more than an Xbox, it's not limited to an ad-spewing, new-game only machine. It is a much better choice in terms of utility, along with beating the Xbox at the only thing it can do. Your Xbox couldn't even upload that post you made. The amount of purchase justification for buying an Xbox is quite entertaining.

The insecurity you have is just ridiculous. What are you not understanding about "I don't give a shit how high your PC-Gaming-Is-Awesome pedestal stands above all us lowly console gamers, I'm saying that you cannot build an equivalent pc for the cost of a 360"?

For the record, no, I don't pay $50 a year. I paid $90 last year for 3 years worth of Live. At any rate, $50 is the cost of a game anyway, what does it matter?

As far as your other bullshit claims, the 360 is not "an ad-spewing machine". It has one ad in the corner of every page, and unless you pay attention to it, you wouldn't even know it's an ad. It's not like you don't have ads in web browsing, right? Oh wait, how dare I question the mighty PC...(this is the part where you tell me you use an adblocker so that you don't see them, right?)

It's also not a "new-game only" machine. Have you ever seen a 360? Or have you just read about them on pro-PC news sites? I bought Deus Ex HR yesterday for $20 used. Guess what? I put it in my console, and it.....played! IMAGINE THAT! :O

Oh wait, this is the part where you tell me "online-pass this" and "online-pass that", right? Because all of gaming has to be multiplayer, right? No such thing as good single-player games for the PC, right? I don't agree with the online-pass thing, but please don't delude yourself into thinking it prevents the system from playing used games.

Why would I want my Xbox to upload this post? Wait, I forgot, in a PC gamer's mind, it's a mortal offense to want to split recreation and work. When I get home from work, and I want to play games, I do just that...I play games. I don't give a shit that my Xbox can't post to a forum board. Do you know what I have to do that? I have a smartphone. I have two laptops. I have a desktop. I have a tablet. I even have a small nettop hooked to my TV. So do tell me, why would I want to use my gaming system to post to a forum board? Bragging rights? Multitasking?

The purchase justification for a console is simple;
We don't give a shit about anything except the game.
We don't care about AA this and 1080p that.
We don't care about FOV or locked framerates.
We don't give a damn about the politics of charging for DLC.
We don't care that we can't upgrade the parts in our console.
We don't care that our consoles can't be used as desktop computers.

We care that at the end of the day, we get a disk, we put it in, and it plays. We don't have to jump through hoops, we don't have to wait.
We care that the same console we bought 7 years back will still play the final game that comes out for our system.

We're pretty much a dying breed here; the ones who seem to actually give a shit about video games. I don't think I've ever met a console gamer who's told me "yeah, it was alright, but the graphics suck" or "yeah, it was cool, but I really wish it had mods". But I can't say I've ever met a PC gamer who hasn't complained about Activision, consoles, or just red-tape video game hot buttons in general.

You can stand there on your pedestal for as much as you want, but the justification for a console is real, and although it might not meet up with your high-and-mighty demands of a PC, it's very much there, and it's very much popular for a good reason.

 

[Kathinka]

a PC that matches the next 360 cannot be built for the same $400 that the next 360 will supposedly cost.

yes it can. easily, as demonstrated above. already now, and how much cheaper still is it going to be on the release of the new xbox..

 

[Bors Mistral]

...The purchase justification for a console is simple;
We don't give a shit about anything except the game.
We don't care about AA this and 1080p that.
We don't care about FOV or locked framerates.
We don't give a damn about the politics of charging for DLC.
We don't care that we can't upgrade the parts in our console.
We don't care that our consoles can't be used as desktop computers.

We care that at the end of the day, we get a disk, we put it in, and it plays. We don't have to jump through hoops, we don't have to wait.
We care that the same console we bought 7 years back will still play the final game that comes out for our system...

What's that "we" you keep mentioning? Every "console" gamer I know, given the choice, would not refuse a superior gaming experience.

Neither do I know where that phobia you seem to have about "jumping through hoops" comes from. Moderate intelligence coupled with the ability to read English will more or less ensure a problem free experience on any platform.

A PC from 7 years ago will play games released today just fine. Nobody forces you to try and run the highest setting in those available. A console would play those same games at the PC equivalent of medium or lower anyway, and likely at 720p. That will run on your old "gaming" computer just as well. And speaking of old, a computer can run a game from 20 years ago just fine. Can you do that on your console? You'll be lucky if your console runs games from it's previous generation. btw, a PC will easily play those too.

I'm not saying that consoles aren't awesome. They are gggggreat! I have a 360, even if my game library for it is limited to 10-15 or so games that I've accumulated for it over the years since they were not available on PC. However, to say that a PC can't do everything a console can, and in most cases do it equivalent or better, is ignorant. Saying that PC gaming is much more expensive is wrong as well. The higher initial cost you'll easily recuperate from the cost of games, that much should be common knowledge by now.

Yes, you have the option to pay more for hardware and get an even better experience. That's what it is, an option.

In the end, it's all about getting the experience you want. A console rocks your boat? Good for you! And if for me gaming is an important hobby and because of rl I only have limited time to enjoy it, why wouldn't I pay as much as I deem fit and get the best of it?

 

[Mute52]

But don't you know? In this argument, PC gamers always have a "but" to counter all your wishes.

You: "It costs a lot."
"But it's better if you build it yourself."
You: "It still costs a lot."
"But it's better because you can mod!"
You: "It still costs a lot."
"But you get Steam!"
You: ".....It costs a lot."

PC gamers unfortunately tend to be very hostile to the idea of admitting flaws with their choice of gaming platform (whereas most console gamers are happy to admit the flaws).

If you want the best possible gaming experience, you play games on PC.
This new Xbox won't even be able to do things PC's have been able to do for a while.
You pay $50 a year to play games online, with little to no extra benefits.
If you add that up over the years of playing Xbox (not even every possible year), that's about $200 of just Xbox live service charges.

Also a computer can do more than an Xbox, it's not limited to an ad-spewing, new-game only machine. It is a much better choice in terms of utility, along with beating the Xbox at the only thing it can do. Your Xbox couldn't even upload that post you made. The amount of purchase justification for buying an Xbox is quite entertaining.

The insecurity you have is just ridiculous. What are you not understanding about "I don't give a shit how high your PC-Gaming-Is-Awesome pedestal stands above all us lowly console gamers, I'm saying that you cannot build an equivalent pc for the cost of a 360"?

For the record, no, I don't pay $50 a year. I paid $90 last year for 3 years worth of Live. At any rate, $50 is the cost of a game anyway, what does it matter?

As far as your other bullshit claims, the 360 is not "an ad-spewing machine". It has one ad in the corner of every page, and unless you pay attention to it, you wouldn't even know it's an ad. It's not like you don't have ads in web browsing, right? Oh wait, how dare I question the mighty PC...(this is the part where you tell me you use an adblocker so that you don't see them, right?)

It's also not a "new-game only" machine. Have you ever seen a 360? Or have you just read about them on pro-PC news sites? I bought Deus Ex HR yesterday for $20 used. Guess what? I put it in my console, and it.....played! IMAGINE THAT! :O

Oh wait, this is the part where you tell me "online-pass this" and "online-pass that", right? Because all of gaming has to be multiplayer, right? No such thing as good single-player games for the PC, right? I don't agree with the online-pass thing, but please don't delude yourself into thinking it prevents the system from playing used games.

Why would I want my Xbox to upload this post? Wait, I forgot, in a PC gamer's mind, it's a mortal offense to want to split recreation and work. When I get home from work, and I want to play games, I do just that...I play games. I don't give a shit that my Xbox can't post to a forum board. Do you know what I have to do that? I have a smartphone. I have two laptops. I have a desktop. I have a tablet. I even have a small nettop hooked to my TV. So do tell me, why would I want to use my gaming system to post to a forum board? Bragging rights? Multitasking?

The purchase justification for a console is simple;
We don't give a shit about anything except the game.
We don't care about AA this and 1080p that.
We don't care about FOV or locked framerates.
We don't give a damn about the politics of charging for DLC.
We don't care that we can't upgrade the parts in our console.
We don't care that our consoles can't be used as desktop computers.

We care that at the end of the day, we get a disk, we put it in, and it plays. We don't have to jump through hoops, we don't have to wait.
We care that the same console we bought 7 years back will still play the final game that comes out for our system.

We're pretty much a dying breed here; the ones who seem to actually give a shit about video games. I don't think I've ever met a console gamer who's told me "yeah, it was alright, but the graphics suck" or "yeah, it was cool, but I really wish it had mods". But I can't say I've ever met a PC gamer who hasn't complained about Activision, consoles, or just red-tape video game hot buttons in general.

You can stand there on your pedestal for as much as you want, but the justification for a console is real, and although it might not meet up with your high-and-mighty demands of a PC, it's very much there, and it's very much popular for a good reason.

Paying $90 for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING doesn't matter, ok.

No, i don't have ads on my PC while web browsing.

I was referring to the XBox 720 in regards to used games, not the 360, because this thread is about the 720.

You have a smart phone, a desktop, a tablet, and two laptops. And you say uploading a post from a device other than a computer is for bragging rights? I must ask if you bought all those devices yourself, because if you didn't, then it's obvious why you have this mindset.

All you want to do is play games and care about the games. But the fact that your are paying more for the games, the console, the DLC doesn't matter?

People like convenience, they pay more for it. Most console gamers just put down hundreds of dollars for a console and don't care, they don't care about any polish to a game, or whether or not the developers put any real work into it. For that same reason, they don't care whether or not Activision, Ea, or anyone else is ripping them off bigtime. You say they are the ones who "truly care about games", yet they throw away their money because they are too ignorant to do anything otherwise.

A console gamer won't complain about graphics or mod accessibility because they know they will never have it on a console, they are limited to only what the developer allows. If you want to just play a game like that, go ahead, but don't say that your preferred method of gaming is cheaper, like you previously stated, because it isn't.

 

[asacatman]

Not worried about graphics that much. I've found some great indie games for the pc with really shitty graphics, and one of my favourite games at the moment is half life 2 (and that's not nostalgia, I wan't into pc gaming when it was released, what with me being about ten years old.)

So yeah, not sure why everyone is arguing so vehemently! It all smacks of insecurity, to me, but whatever.

 

[LiquidSolstice]

Paying $90 for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING doesn't matter, ok.

Last I checked, that $90 has guarenteed that my online gaming will pretty much always be flawless and safe (as it has been since I bought my 360). Can't say much for other platforms in that regard.

No, i don't have ads on my PC while web browsing.

Bullshit. You're using an adblocker to do that. I can do the same to my 360 through my router if I wanted to.

You have a smart phone, a desktop, a tablet, and two laptops. And you say uploading a post from a device other than a computer is for bragging rights? I must ask if you bought all those devices yourself, because if you didn't, then it's obvious why you have this mindset.

I do not own a smartphone, a tablet, and two laptops for bragging rights. They serve their purpose individually, which is why I bought them. You know, much like why I bought a 360 because it serves a specific purpose. That should be obvious?

All you want to do is play games and care about the games. But the fact that your are paying more for the games, the console, the DLC doesn't matter?

Games at most cost $10 more on the console. The console is NOT more expensive. I have yet to see a $300 PC (since we're comparing the current generation) match the 360. The cost of the operating system ALONE takes up half that budget, so why not stop ignoring that?

People like convenience, they pay more for it. Most console gamers just put down hundreds of dollars for a console and don't care, they don't care about any polish to a game, or whether or not the developers put any real work into it. For that same reason, they don't care whether or not Activision, Ea, or anyone else is ripping them off bigtime. You say they are the ones who "truly care about games", yet they throw away their money because they are too ignorant to do anything otherwise.

Guess what? We DO care about polish. OUR polish is not 16x MSAA or 1080p, it's how bug-free and seamless a game is. And maybe you want to get off your high horse? PC gamers buy the same Activision and EA games. Although I'm sure PC gamers would love to think they're all just Minecraft/Valve/Indie kids, that's not the case and you know it. It's just the PC gamers that ***** about Activision and EA, whereas the console gamers.....actually play the goddamn game. We're not ignorant, we just don't give two fucks whether or not you think we're getting ripped off, what the agenda of Bobby Kotick is, or any other bullshit that has ZERO to do with the game.

A console gamer won't complain about graphics or mod accessibility because they know they will never have it on a console, they are limited to only what the developer allows.

Because we're not worried about graphics or mods. We're satisfied with that because it works. And we enjoy it. We're not Luddite Amish peasants tumbling around the Dark Ages of video games, for fuck's sake.

If you want to just play a game like that, go ahead, but don't say that your preferred method of gaming is cheaper, like you previously stated, because it isn't.

I will say it's cheaper. Because there is no such thing as a $300 gaming PC. Or a $400 one. No one has linked to anything, just one random guy who listed prices with no sources whatsoever.

Find me a $300 PC that can play Battlefield 3 at the same quality as the 360, and I will eat my words. Promise. (And please do remember WHAT ALL goes into a PC)

 

[Bors Mistral]

Find me a $300 PC that can play Battlefield 3 at the same quality as the 360, and I will eat my words. Promise. (And please do remember WHAT ALL goes into a PC)

OK, just for the exercise, I guess...

Battlefield 3 on consoles runs at 720p, is locked at 30 frames and uses the lowest settings available on PC. How to make a PC that can run it like that and cost less than $300? Here's your recipe:
-> go to a medium sized mall or Bestbay or whatever equivalent you have nearby.
-> buy a cheap-ass dual-core office PC with 2GB ram and an empty PCI-Express slot. With some minimal effort that can be found for $200 or less and comes with Windows already installed.
-> use an online price comparison engine and order a Radeon 6670 for $60 or so. That card already rolls BF3 with quality higher than your console.
-> with the rest of the budget, buy yourself a nice meal or 2-3 nice games from a STEAM sale.

But, oh noes, that cheap office PC there does not come with a screen! Well, your console does not come with a TV bundled for free either.

In the end, no, I'm not going to hold your hand and give you links. All I wrote is easy enough to do on your own, if you are actually interested. And if you just want to argue, no problem, you're welcome, go ahead.

 

[LiquidSolstice]

Ah, in order to satisfy the price requirement, I have to go on eBay and buy some random dude's crappy computer after he's finished using it for his lifelong collection of porn and decides to flip it on eBay.

I'm taking about building a PC new, not using an age-old machine from the past. I can buy a 360 with a 250 GB hard drive and an included controller (sometimes even with a game included) new for $300, so why do I have to buy a PC used? You've only proved my point. You can't build an equivalent machine new for $300 or less. You have to go used.

Thanks for trying. Really. It was a good effort.

I think I've made my point. Everyone was oh-so-enthusiastic to state that you can build a PC for less than the cost of a 360 but no one seems to want to back it up. We have one person who posted a list of parts with no links to said parts, and we have another person who more or less says "Get an old used dual-core machine off eBay and put a video card in it". Doesn't inspire much confidence, now does it?

I really don't mind admitting that PC gaming has its strengths. The games are somewhat cheaper, the graphics can be pushed pretty hard, and Steam is a decent online platform for sure. But it's not the holy grail of gaming, and with the exception of a few people in this thread, not many PC gamers are willing to back down from any of their outlandish claims.

 

[Bors Mistral]

Man, I see you're not up to date and I don't ask you to be, but at least properly read what I wrote. If you think that "buy online" automatically means used stuff on eBay, I can see where some of your assumptions come from.

None of the parts have to be second hand. A decent video cards can be had that cheap new, and there's plenty of never used before mildly outdated PCs that stores will clear out if your budget is so limited.

And yes, that's all it takes to match up and surpass a 360 in performance. Nothing "outlandish" about it. You promised to eat your words but, as I said, you don't have to and I don't mind if you just go in denial mode like you did in your post above.

 

[LiquidSolstice]

Man, I see you're not up to date and I don't ask you to be, but at least properly read what I wrote. If you think that "buy online" automatically means used stuff on eBay, I can see where some of your assumptions come from.

None of the parts have to be second hand. A decent video cards can be had that cheap new, and there's plenty of never used before mildly outdated PCs that stores will clear out if your budget is so limited.

And yes, that's all it takes to match up and surpass a 360 in performance. Nothing "outlandish" about it. You promised to eat your words but, as I said, you don't have to and I don't mind if you just go in denial mode like you did in your post above.

I'm happy to admit my mistake. I read "BestBuy" as "eBay". Regardless, I did a bit of research on BestBuy's site, and I seem to be unable to find this supposed "cheap dual-core tower with 2 GB of RAM" for less than or even close to $200.

It's really so damn easy to spew bullshit and refuse to back it up, isn't it? I'm sure it must be fun, but when you're ready to come back down to earth, please do take a look at the below links.

BestBuy [http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olstemplatemapper.jsp?_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1&_dynSessConf=8659270585294681088&id=pcmcat212600050008&type=category&usc=abcat0500000&cp=1&sp=%2Bcurrentprice+skuid&nrp=15&qp=crootcategoryid%23%23-1%23%23-1~~q70726f63657373696e6774696d653a3e313930302d30312d3031~~cabcat0500000%23%230%23%232g0~~cabcat0501000%23%230%23%232e~~ncpcmcat212600050008%23%230%23%231&add_to_pkg=false&pagetype=listing]

I even did more research than you bothered to do, by the way.

Fry's Electronics [http://www.frys.com/search?query_string=&cat=-68380&pType=pDisplay&sort=price%20asc&start=0&cat=-68380&from=0&to=24]
Staples [http://www.staples.com/All-Desktops/cat_CL161746#sortName=%27price%27&sortOrder=%27ascending%27&sortDatatype=%27number%27&pagenum=1&viewDetails=%27listView%27] Too bad. The sub-$300 desktops are all refurbished.
Amazon [http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=amb_link_4737592_1?ie=UTF8&node=565098&emi=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-5&pf_rd_r=1CHWEH72XWC8112NKCAW&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1343548442&pf_rd_i=565098#/ref=sr_st?bbn=565098&qid=1328151156&rh=n%3A172282%2Cn%3A!493964%2Cn%3A541966%2Cn%3A565098%2Cp_6%3AATVPDKIKX0DER%2Cp_36%3A2421880011&sort=price] Oh look! I could get myself a dual-core Atom! Too bad about no PCI slot though.
Newegg [http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=10&Order=PRICE]
Overstock.com [http://www.overstock.com/Electronics/Desktops/132/subcat.html?sort=Lowest+Price] Seems everything is either refurbished and/or doesn't have a PCI slot

Surely you agree that I've done quite a bit more than "minimal effort". I didn't seem to find anything. I'm looking for a shred of proof, and as far as I can see, the only one that has made an effort to see if your counter-claim is right is me. Still outlandish.

It's ok though. You can just tell me I'm in denial instead of bothering to research your own claims, because that seems to be easier for you.