XCOM 2 Gameplay Video Shows Off More Strategy Depth

[Nurb]

Are there going to be bigger damn maps? I got sick of revealing one enemey group that activates every other enemy group on the map.

 

[Makabriel]

- Only 4-6 soldiers max still? Bloody friggin hell, at least it makes kinda sense given the guerilla theme but is still annoying. Will want mod to change this ASAP. I understand people's heads will explode if they command more then a dozen troops but c'mon, at least 8 so I can make 4 pairs sweeping the map separately or 2 combat squads please.

I don't get this. You lose all sense of a tactical game when you command a platoon of that size against a smaller batch of opponents. You're spamming the battlefield. That's not tactical. Unless you drastically raise hte amount of opponents you're going up against, there's no challenge.

And they've said you won't be able to recruit masses of units like you did before. So no more cannon fodder.

I'm perfectly happy with smaller group sizes. Nothing at all wrong with it.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

I wish I could play this game, because from what I understand they're going to put a bit more effort into the story. I enjoyed the first X-COM game, but I got bored with it after my second playthrough or so because my main motivation just wasn't that good.

Alas, I only play on consoles. Hope this does well though and I can watch some videos.

 

[Frankster]

You lose all sense of a tactical game when you command a platoon of that size against a smaller batch of opponents.

And I don't get this. Are you saying original xcom, xenonauts and the various xcom like games that have you commanding up to 24 men in some cases are less tactical because there's more units to command?

Wait there's a 2nd part to that sentence, let's finish reading..Against a smaller batch of opponents? Hang on, I never said that.

It's my assumption that you'd be still be outnumbered, that was the case in the previous game.
And from the way they talk of dynamic enemy reinforcements that will be applying constant pressure to your xcom squad, nothing I've seen leads me to believe you still won't be outnumbered even with extra troops.

Anyways point is moot, there will be mods to give me what I want so yey for mods.

 

[BeerTent]

You lose all sense of a tactical game when you command a platoon of that size against a smaller batch of opponents.

And I don't get this. Are you saying original xcom, xenonauts and the various xcom like games that have you commanding up to 24 men in some cases are less tactical because there's more units to command?

On the topic on less vs more solders... It's not that the games are "Less" or "More" tactical, the issue is that we're playing by completely different rules. Having 24 solders with these kinds of maps and cover based mechanics would be insane. The losses would be psychopathic. However, on the flip-side, playing with 6 solders with the TU based rules would also be positively foolish. It'd be impossible to get anything done. Doing LW with a change of rules to allow for 10 solders on most missions, I'm already just deciding to leave 2-3 solders behind and letting the rest of the group clean the place out. Early game, it's just not necessary to have a 9v9. It's quick, easy, and dull with these mechanics and rules.

That being said, 6 is small, but there is a reason we're going with the small squads, and a reason we went with them in EU/EW. We need bigger maps (Which is what we'll get in XCOM2, we don't have this AT ALL in EU/EW) and more aliens (Which, to a degree, we get with LW. However, they've toned it down in the last few betas. I want another 60 Zombie mission!!)

That's it's #1 selling point for me. The fucking maps. I actually just want modders to recreate EW/LW for XCOM2. I want some of that map-meat!! FEED ME THE MAP MEAT!

 

[Ricardo Lima]

Im very much looking forward to this game.

 

[freaper]

So no more RNG for your troops' class? Cool stuff.

well it looks like a way to opt out by benching them a few days to manually select what they'll be.

Yea, from the (very) few things I've seen the game looks much slower, which I don't mind since it puts more emphasis on growing a few troops, instead of having a college's worth of soldiers.

 

[rembrandtqeinstein]

To anyone complaining about ANYTHING in the XCOM remake I highly recommend you check out the Long War mod. It literally fixes everything including an initial 6 man squad, more classes, WAY more weapons and equipment and a much deeper strategic game.

Also as for the sequel:

 

[Dalisclock]

Loved the original, loved the remake, loved the expansion for the remake and very much looking forward to the sequel to the remake.

Although Terror from the Deep was the most infuriating game ever made. I DIDN'T BRING ANY GUNS THAT WORK UNDERWATER!!!

I'd love to see TftD done in the style of EW, and half expected the game to be a remake of that. And not nearly as annoying and difficult.

 

[Dragonlayer]

This incredibly awesome trailer seems handmade to my preferences:

- Extensive customization for soldiers, from uniform and weapon design all the way to tattoos and body language, for that extra attachment to your doomed cannon fodder.
- Emphasis on asymmetrical warfare against a superior enemy and the need to prioritize working with different terror resistance cells across the globe.
- Giant, highly modifiable mobile HQ that reminds me of rebuilding the Brotherhood of Nod in Tiberium Sun.*

No sexy Vipers unfortunately, but still: I want this game!

*Ironically, since it was GDI's HQ that was airborne.

 

[The Jovian]

This incredibly awesome trailer seems handmade to my preferences:

- Extensive customization for soldiers, from uniform and weapon design all the way to tattoos and body language, for that extra attachment to your doomed cannon fodder.
- Emphasis on asymmetrical warfare against a superior enemy and the need to prioritize working with different terror resistance cells across the globe.
- Giant, highly modifiable mobile HQ that reminds me of rebuilding the Brotherhood of Nod in Tiberium Sun.*

No sexy Vipers unfortunately, but still: I want this game!

*Ironically, since it was GDI's HQ that was airborne.

GDI's HQ wasn't airborne. It was a space station. Getting back on topic, this game looks awesome. I can't wait to get my forces crubstomped by the starting Sectoid because I severely underestimated his psi abilities.

 

[Dragonlayer]

This incredibly awesome trailer seems handmade to my preferences:

- Extensive customization for soldiers, from uniform and weapon design all the way to tattoos and body language, for that extra attachment to your doomed cannon fodder.
- Emphasis on asymmetrical warfare against a superior enemy and the need to prioritize working with different terror resistance cells across the globe.
- Giant, highly modifiable mobile HQ that reminds me of rebuilding the Brotherhood of Nod in Tiberium Sun.*

No sexy Vipers unfortunately, but still: I want this game!

*Ironically, since it was GDI's HQ that was airborne.

GDI's HQ wasn't airborne. It was a space station. Getting back on topic, this game looks awesome. I can't wait to get my forces crubstomped by the starting Sectoid because I severely underestimated his psi abilities.

GDI's supreme HQ, the Philadelphia, was indeed a space station but I was referring to the Kodiak.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/cnc/images/7/7d/16525-2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130806200445

Nod has the Montauk, the over-sized subterranean APC that traveled along an incredibly convenient world-spanning subway network.

 

[chimeracreator]

And I don't get this. Are you saying original xcom, xenonauts and the various xcom like games that have you commanding up to 24 men in some cases are less tactical because there's more units to command?

Yep, any potential resource allocation issues go out the window when you can bring more than two of everything you would ever possibly need. I haven't played xenonauts but in XCOM I always started off with one or two guys with rocket launchers; everyone else with rifles in hand, stun prod in their packets and a high explosive on their belt. For night missions everyone also got a flare which was either on belt or in hand at the start of combat. By the end of the game replace rifle with heavy plasma and add a psi-enchancer to their other hand for an easy win on most any mission while the rocket carriers get replaced by blaster launcher or plasma tanks (who also serve the purpose of cannon fodder for initial ramp shots).

Since the new XCOM forced soldier lineup changes due to levels and wounds along with giving a number of distinct classes I had to change up my tactics every fight which kept things a lot fresher. Ultimately the slow crawl was still nearly always the right tactical action, but how that played out depending on if you had a squad with two supports, two snipers and two heavies compared to one support, three assaults, a heavy and a shiv.

 

[Fdzzaigl]

Really digging the voicework in the game so far. Avenger looks really cool too, some neat story bits in there that we didn't know about before.

 

[Amaror]

And I don't get this. Are you saying original xcom, xenonauts and the various xcom like games that have you commanding up to 24 men in some cases are less tactical because there's more units to command?

Yep, any potential resource allocation issues go out the window when you can bring more than two of everything you would ever possibly need. I haven't played xenonauts but in XCOM I always started off with one or two guys with rocket launchers; everyone else with rifles in hand, stun prod in their packets and a high explosive on their belt. For night missions everyone also got a flare which was either on belt or in hand at the start of combat. By the end of the game replace rifle with heavy plasma and add a psi-enchancer to their other hand for an easy win on most any mission while the rocket carriers get replaced by blaster launcher or plasma tanks (who also serve the purpose of cannon fodder for initial ramp shots).

Since the new XCOM forced soldier lineup changes due to levels and wounds along with giving a number of distinct classes I had to change up my tactics every fight which kept things a lot fresher. Ultimately the slow crawl was still nearly always the right tactical action, but how that played out depending on if you had a squad with two supports, two snipers and two heavies compared to one support, three assaults, a heavy and a shiv.

I kindof aggree for the original Xcom. Most of the time i would only use half of the soldiers i brought and keep the rest as backup in the ship. But xenonauts, for example, does it very well. The amount of troops you can take with you increases pretty slowly and not by a huge amount. Additionally the enemies tend to be more aggressive than in EU, so to speak. From the beginning on your soldiers start a lot weaker than the aliens and need the larger numbers to overwhelm the enemy. In the later stages they are somewhat on par with the aliens, but the aliens also grow a lot more numerous and aggressive. What personally makes the battles a lot more exciting than the EU battles is that they don't have the stupid aliens triggering system. The aliens are active the whole time and come at you in full force, exspecially in terror missions.
I don't think that many units are required but i personally just think that a maximum of 6 is simply too low. They should go to 8 at least for example. Like Long War did.

 

[Fdzzaigl]

For the model they had in EU, six soldiers was the sweet spot. Eight would have been irrelevant because you only had so many classes to bring anyhow.

If they did want to give you more squad members, they'd first need to diversify the classes like they did in LW. So that every addition remains useful and also relevant in the face of a massively increased threat.

I'm fine with them going for 6 again with the classes they have today. As the game is opening up completely to modders, we'll see some amazing projects soon. No doubt more classes and an increased cap will be part of that.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

As someone who played both the base game and the Long War quite extensively, there is nothing inherently wrong with smaller squad sizes. It's a deliberate choice meant to prod the player into tough decisions in terms of squad composition, and to keep the pacing of the game snappy. Mods will always be there to tinker with this. The most important thing for them to do is to work on balancing the classes, and abilities within the classes, so that the decisions the player has to make are engaging. If one class or one ability is veritably a default choice (as was often the case in the first game and its expansion) then you're losing a critical layer of strategic depth. That's the point at which small squad sizes become limiting, and Long War's sprawl of poorly differentiated "classes" and larger rosters becomes compelling...you simply overwhelm the problem with inelegant, small scale solutions.

Sequel is looking pretty brilliant so far. The procedurally generated maps and significantly more enhanced soldier customization shows that the team was pretty intelligently keyed in to what made the first game tick and how to improve it. Ultimately, though, it's going to be a question of how well they balance their strategic and tactical layers (this was not done well at ALL in the first game...they need to be connected, but not to the point where a single failure on one causes a collapse on the other) and how well they fix their difficulty pacing (first game had a huge spike early that rapidly tapered off into the mid-game and then fell off a cliff at the end...that's not how you do effective or intuitive difficulty) and power creep (slowly and persistently ramping difficulty is dull, mix it up a bit, throw more curveballs).

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

As someone who played both the base game and the Long War quite extensively, there is nothing inherently wrong with smaller squad sizes. It's a deliberate choice meant to prod the player into tough decisions in terms of squad composition, and to keep the pacing of the game snappy. Mods will always be there to tinker with this. The most important thing for them to do is to work on balancing the classes, and abilities within the classes, so that the decisions the player has to make are engaging. If one class or one ability is veritably a default choice (as was often the case in the first game and its expansion) then you're losing a critical layer of strategic depth. That's the point at which small squad sizes become limiting, and Long War's sprawl of poorly differentiated "classes" and larger rosters becomes compelling...you simply overwhelm the problem with inelegant, small scale solutions.

Everything you said is spot on, but there's one point that I think people need to really grasp.

We lost.

We have a trophy government as it is. All our military seems to be disbanded. The literal few soldiers the resistance would get, they would never send more than absolute barebones to any mission. Because Losing 7 field assets when you have around 40 and your replacement rate is one new soldier per successful mission severely limits your future operations.

I do hope there's a mechanic that if you really bungle a mission and lose everyone (like someone would do that with the invention of save scumming), you'd have to do 3 times as many missions in a locale to renew the trust of the people to have them volunteer again.

Thematically, it just makes sense that we would have such small forces because there are not that many forces to go around. Also, we're doing super guerrilla tactics in a planet that's now completely enemy territory. You're going in to sabotage, not take on force to force.