"Xenogears" Gameplay Question/Discussion. (Wall of text-ish)

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Austin Howe

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Keep in mind, I'm here for the supposedly balls-deep awesome story, so I won't really be bothered by either answer to this question but: I'm 5 hours into the game, and holy jesus is this gameplay bad. Does that ever get better?

I mean, I can admire that they wanted small elements of platforming, but this wonky fucking camera and the lag between pressing the button and jumping is atrocious (this is a problem in a LOT of platformers, and I really don't know why.) Sure it's milliseconds, but this game is less forgiving than old Megaman when it comes to landing jumps perfectly.

The battle system so far is a pale imitation of the astonishing things that Chrono Cross would achieve in JRPG gameplay a few years later, and it's accompanied by easily the worst battle theme I've ever suffered through in any game in this genre.

Speaking of which: soundtrack. Everything that's not a battle theme? Underwheliming. Certainly not anything close to what Mitsuda would achieve with Chrono Cross, but I'll more than admit I'mm not far enough into this game to be judging the non-battle music as a whole, which has been disappointing.
Battle music? Kill me now I'm so fucking bored. When I'd rather hear the main battle music from Chrono Trigger something has gone wrong. Utterly, horribly wrong.
Silence in dungeons . . . Yasunori Mitsuda can clean the dirtiest part of my ass with his nostrils. It's bullshit here, and it's especially bullshit in Xenosaga Episode I. Seriously Mitsuda, people like music, that's why they hired your over-rated ass because they (for some reason) still like the soundtrack to Chrono Trigger (which has almost all of the same problems except for the fact that dungeons have god damn music.) So put music in the damn dungeons. It's not atmospheric or ambient if there's not a wealth of good sound effects to go with it, and this game cannot possibly deliver on that front, especially when you have to hear the battle theme every once in a while that never changes. At least in XEI the battle music is pretty decent, but hearing one piece of music (especially when it's bad) contrasted with silence is god damned infuriating Mitsuda.

To be fair, what I've gotten of the story so far is pretty cool. The doomed hometown was destroyed by the hero, creating pretense for internal conflict later on. We're getting good hints as to who other characters are, and in general there's not a beat so far that feels out of place. I look forward to when the big philosophical discussions are supposed to happen, especially since this game seems to be taking a big note from Existentialism with "Stand Tall, and Shake The Heavens!", but I just haven't gotten there yet.

I just want to know now, does this gameplay improve at all? The battles get more exciting, the depths of the battle system get mined? Because with these battles I really feel like I'm just trying random things with no idea of how to go about it, and it's working, which makes me feel like I'm going to get fucked by a difficulty spike later on that requires me to know what the fuck I'm doing.

So I guess this is sort of a general Xenogears discussion as well, though I ask that any story elements past the party's capture by Bartholomew the Pirate be kept in a spoiler tag.
 

OrpheusTelos

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Mar 24, 2012
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Austin Howe said:
Keep in mind, I'm here for the supposedly balls-deep awesome story, so I won't really be bothered by either answer to this question but: I'm 5 hours into the game, and holy jesus is this gameplay bad. Does that ever get better?

I mean, I can admire that they wanted small elements of platforming, but this wonky fucking camera and the lag between pressing the button and jumping is atrocious (this is a problem in a LOT of platformers, and I really don't know why.) Sure it's milliseconds, but this game is less forgiving than old Megaman when it comes to landing jumps perfectly.

The battle system so far is a pale imitation of the astonishing things that Chrono Cross would achieve in JRPG gameplay a few years later, and it's accompanied by easily the worst battle theme I've ever suffered through in any game in this genre.

Speaking of which: soundtrack. Everything that's not a battle theme? Underwheliming. Certainly not anything close to what Mitsuda would achieve with Chrono Cross, but I'll more than admit I'mm not far enough into this game to be judging the non-battle music as a whole, which has been disappointing.
Battle music? Kill me now I'm so fucking bored. When I'd rather hear the main battle music from Chrono Trigger something has gone wrong. Utterly, horribly wrong.
Silence in dungeons . . . Yasunori Mitsuda can clean the dirtiest part of my ass with his nostrils. It's bullshit here, and it's especially bullshit in Xenosaga Episode I. Seriously Mitsuda, people like music, that's why they hired your over-rated ass because they (for some reason) still like the soundtrack to Chrono Trigger (which has almost all of the same problems except for the fact that dungeons have god damn music.) So put music in the damn dungeons. It's not atmospheric or ambient if there's not a wealth of good sound effects to go with it, and this game cannot possibly deliver on that front, especially when you have to hear the battle theme every once in a while that never changes. At least in XEI the battle music is pretty decent, but hearing one piece of music (especially when it's bad) contrasted with silence is god damned infuriating Mitsuda.

To be fair, what I've gotten of the story so far is pretty cool. The doomed hometown was destroyed by the hero, creating pretense for internal conflict later on. We're getting good hints as to who other characters are, and in general there's not a beat so far that feels out of place. I look forward to when the big philosophical discussions are supposed to happen, especially since this game seems to be taking a big note from Existentialism with "Stand Tall, and Shake The Heavens!", but I just haven't gotten there yet.

I just want to know now, does this gameplay improve at all? The battles get more exciting, the depths of the battle system get mined? Because with these battles I really feel like I'm just trying random things with no idea of how to go about it, and it's working, which makes me feel like I'm going to get fucked by a difficulty spike later on that requires me to know what the fuck I'm doing.

So I guess this is sort of a general Xenogears discussion as well, though I ask that any story elements past the party's capture by Bartholomew the Pirate be kept in a spoiler tag.
The story is amazing. Takes a while to really get interesting, but it is great.

No, not really... the game usually doesn't require platforming, but there are a couple dungeons that require it that are really tedious (UGH Tower of Babel). The combat improves once you get a few more party members and abilities, and as the bosses start to require more strategy.
Really, Xenogears' gameplay is functional at best.

Music. Yes, the music is fantastic (Mitsuda rocks), and there is good dungeon music later (surprisingly, Tower of Babel).

EDIT: Internal conflict? Oh, you have NO idea. >:D
 

twistedheat15

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Game play stays kinda boring till you get into more robot fights. The biggest thing is the story that pulls you in and makes your forget about the crappy game play. One annoying thing is the save points, later you end up playing hr+ sessions w/o seeing a save point, makes when something comes up that much harder on ya.
 

Austin Howe

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twistedheat15 said:
Game play stays kinda boring till you get into more robot fights. The biggest thing is the story that pulls you in and makes your forget about the crappy game play. One annoying thing is the save points, later you end up playing hr+ sessions w/o seeing a save point, makes when something comes up that much harder on ya.
Straight up, I'm emulating, so problems with saves and platforming won't end up being a problem. No save points around? Save state. Fail a jump? Well I stated on the platform. I realize this sort of cheapens some of the original experience, but if the original experience is more painful, than fuck that, I want to like games.
 

Austin Howe

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SmarterThanYou said:
Music. Yes, the music is fantastic (Mitsuda rocks), and there is good dungeon music later (surprisingly, Tower of Babel).
Well when there's good music accompanying the action, I can get behind bad gameplay pretty hard. I mean, I wouldn't really be noticing that the battle system feels vague and alienating if the battle music wasn't so god damned awful. That said, I have faith in Mitsuda's background music when he actually decides to write it.

Seriously, it's fucking annoying that not a damned thing in Xenosaga Episode I has had music besides the battles. And the battle theme (there's not even a regular boss theme! ARRRGGGH! This is bad game design people!) is pretty good, but not fantastic, and it's certainly not good enough to be, generally speaking, the only piece of music I hear in a game for hours on end. Only a battle theme as good as say, "Let the Battles Begin" would be worthy of that honor. Or the battle theme from Xenosaga Episode III for that matter (I haven't played the game, but I heard it in a youtube playlist countdown once), though the bombast of that might get tiring (but it can't be more tiring than the dissonance at the start of the XEI battle theme). EDIT: Especially since XEI features some of the slowest, thought-heavy and strategy-oriented battles I've played in any game outside the Tactics sub-genre.
 

Marik2

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Nov 10, 2009
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Austin Howe said:
You should ask this person, cuz shes gotta be the biggest fan of Xenogears here

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/profiles/view/Bara_no_Hime
 

malestrithe

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Then it has the best storyboard you'll ever see. Too bad you don't get to play it.

Combat is kind of meh. Once you get some more characters, it becomes better.

Soundtrack is good, but the arranged CD by CREID is better. If you have a chance listen to it on youtube.
 

Austin Howe

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I mean, I'll be perfectly honest. I love Metal Gear. Cutscene heavy games really don't bother me at all, and I astound myself everyday that passes that I don't end up playing a visual novel.