XHTML Thread

[Phantom2595]

So I decided to start a thread to discuss XHTML. But really what I would like ot see are some tips from those that are more experienced.

Recently I have decided to learn XHTML, followed by various other computer languages.And begin a journey down the hacker/programmer carrer(I haven't given up my hopes of being a writer of literature either... yet)
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html#skills3

So the first thing I have decided to do is learn XHTML. So as a newbie, I would like to ask those of you that are more experienced in this sort thing.

Are there any tips that you would be willing to share?

Also, I think it would be great it this thread was used to XHTML discussion.(And other computer languages)

 

[Esdras]

from what I can remember XHTML wasn't too difficult to pick up. I can't really give you any tips, However I did hear that python was another easy language to learn (although a little outdated.) C++ is also really simple.

 

[Phantom2595]

from what I can remember XHTML wasn't too difficult to pick up. I can't really give you any tips, However I did hear that python was another easy language to learn (although a little outdated.) C++ is also really simple.

Yea, what I was thinking of doing was learning XHTML, make a nice hompage. Then moving on to learning Python.

Also, do you have too have 2 HDDs to have Linux AND Windows?I hear if you want to program Linux is much better.

 

[Eternal_Rapture]

Macromedia Dreamweaver is your best friend ever when it comes to designing web pages, especially in XHTML.

 

[ChocoCake]

Yea, what I was thinking of doing was learning XHTML, make a nice hompage. Then moving on to learning Python.

Also, do you have too have 2 HDDs to have Linux AND Windows?I hear if you want to program Linux is much better.

You can partition your current HD for Linux as well as Windows, or you could download any virtual machine software that can do this while booted into any other OS. Also I am not sure if there is any vast difference in between Linux and Windows, I would only suggest that if you are going to use XHTML first, either OS works fine.

 

[Phantom2595]

Macromedia Dreamweaver is your best friend ever when it comes to designing web pages, especially in XHTML.

And how much does that?

I think I'll stick with notepad. I know it's like going with MS paint instead of Photoshop, but it's free.

Yea, what I was thinking of doing was learning XHTML, make a nice hompage. Then moving on to learning Python.

Also, do you have too have 2 HDDs to have Linux AND Windows?I hear if you want to program Linux is much better.

You can partition your current HD for Linux as well as Windows, or you could download any virtual machine software that can do this while booted into any other OS. Also I am not sure if there is any vast difference in between Linux and Windows, I would only suggest that if you are going to use XHTML first, either OS works fine.

Yea, I'll stick with Windows for now.

 

[Lance Icarus]

I really don't want to give any advice that describes their goal as being a hacker. If you mean hacker as in someone who tests a website to make sure it's hacker safe, then I'm a little more accepting.

When it comes to webpages, you gotta learn the basic HTML. After that, I'd strongly urge you to learn some PHP since so many sites use some form of it now it's ridiculous. Oh, and having a basic knowledge of Java wouldn't hurt things either.

 

[ChocoCake]

I think I'll stick with notepad. I know it's like going with MS paint instead of Photoshop, but it's free.

Yea, I'll stick with Windows for now.

I would personally suggest Notepad++ and Visual C++, I got a fairly recent version of C++ with one of the university textbooks that cost me around $350. Its too bad I never really got into it all that much.

 

[mokes310]

I never got into C/C++ that much, but I did get into SQL. I learned it for my old job, and it was pretty useful, although, just a little tricky.

 

[ChocoCake]

I'd actually suggest that you go the open-source route when it comes to compilers - a copy of Cygwin with GCC installed, or else straight GCC from Linux. It'll be difficult at first to get used to compiling on a command line, but it's an indispensable trick to have. Seeing as GCC is used in some of the world's most powerful computer installations, it has proven itself able to take the strain of professional applications just as well as something like Visual C++. It's free as well, which seals the deal for me.

He's just starting out remember, but this is where he should head as he gains experience, and more knowledge.

 

[Lance Icarus]

I really don't want to give any advice that describes their goal as being a hacker. If you mean hacker as in someone who tests a website to make sure it's hacker safe, then I'm a little more accepting.

When it comes to webpages, you gotta learn the basic HTML. After that, I'd strongly urge you to learn some PHP since so many sites use some form of it now it's ridiculous. Oh, and having a basic knowledge of Java wouldn't hurt things either.

The original poster actually has the correct definition of the word "hacker" for once - that's commendable on its own. Somebody who experiments on computer systems, who enjoys computer programming. The definition that exists with the people who learned how to program back when computers had blinkenlights, front-panel switches and rumbling mechanical teletypes.

HTML is only a means to an end, really, and is more coding than actual programming. When it comes to actual programming languages, C, C++, Python and Perl are rather useful. LISP is recommended by ESR, but it's more for the elegance factor and the fact that people use it for Emacs and artificial intelligence programming than anything else.

I'm always iffy these days when someone uses the term "hacker" to describe themselves. It's true that it's used correctly here, but you just never know when someone really means they want to be that Hollywood movie guy who is surrounded by at least five monitors using his 1337 skills to decode government files in under five minutes.

I know that it's more of a coding language than it is programming, but he expressed interest in creating a webpage with XHTML and I strongly feel that he should at least know the HTML basics since that's what the vast majority of webpages are based on. I'll admit I haven't looked into XHTML much since I haven't really needed to, but I know it's got a few quirks that are far from regular HTML. Honestly, just knowing some of the HTML code used commonly in forums along with some very light reading on a tutorial site would be what I consider "the basics".

 

[Gitsnik]

Macromedia Dreamweaver is your best friend ever when it comes to designing web pages, especially in XHTML.

/me runs screaming into the night

Do NOT do this. Do not get yourself a pretty IDE, do not get notepad++ or anything like that. If you are learning you damn well don't need someone's software helping you along the path to enlightenment.

Does anyone have an offline copy of the tuxedo.org file? http://www.carnatic.com/karmasaya/index.php?How%20To%20Become%20A%20Hacker that one? PM the OP a link to it please as it is a perfect guide to begin with.

My only other suggestion would be to get yourself some sort of HTML validator (I use the Tidy plugin for firefox) and set yourself up with a small webserver you can play on (or just work with files on the desktop). The validator can show you where you are going wrong if you're trying to make valid HTML files and if you get stuck it has a "clean up this page" option (as opposed to just "there's an error on line 8, figure it out".

Read a lot, write a little. Don't expect to be able to build a working copy of the escapist over night.

And be prepared to fail a few times! You won't get it first time and if you do well done.

For the record my first eight languages came in this order (through hacking programs to suit a need):

C, QBASIC (school will do that to you), Python, HTML --> XHTML, Javascript, Java, C++, Perl

The other languages you can pick up as you go along, but a working grasp of these will do you fine. If you're going to stick to windows programming you can probably ignore C++ and C and just start on C#. And let's face it nobody wants to learn QBASIC any more - I constantly try to purge it from my mind.

 

[OneHP]

I'd recommend that you get Notepad2 from http://www.flos-freeware.ch/notepad2.html.

Also I <3 Java so I'll recommend this http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/ either first or second on the page.

 

[Eternal_Rapture]

Macromedia Dreamweaver is your best friend ever when it comes to designing web pages, especially in XHTML.

And how much does that?

I think I'll stick with notepad. I know it's like going with MS paint instead of Photoshop, but it's free.

Yea, what I was thinking of doing was learning XHTML, make a nice hompage. Then moving on to learning Python.

Also, do you have too have 2 HDDs to have Linux AND Windows?I hear if you want to program Linux is much better.

You can partition your current HD for Linux as well as Windows, or you could download any virtual machine software that can do this while booted into any other OS. Also I am not sure if there is any vast difference in between Linux and Windows, I would only suggest that if you are going to use XHTML first, either OS works fine.

Yea, I'll stick with Windows for now.

There are ways to get things that aren't free for free, just saying, not implying anything.

 

[Phantom2595]

Thanks for the feedback. Also, RAKtheUndead, would you happen to be a hacker programmer?

So what I've been thinking of doing is learning (X?)HTML, then moving on to python, since I read it's a basic language.(And I'm just starting out.) Or should I go with a different computer language as my first real programing language?

Also, what is the difference between XHTML and HTML? I thought XHTML was just the new version of HTML.

 

[Gitsnik]

Also, what is the difference between XHTML and HTML? I thought XHTML was just the new version of HTML.

There are a lot more subtleties to it, but you can think of XHTML as properly formatted HTML. Where HTML lets you get away with &lt;br> XHTML forces you to close an opened tag: &lt;br/>

http://www.w3schools.com/XHTML/xhtml_html.asp

 

[perfectimo]

All I could add to this is steer clear of Visual Basic .Net

 

[m_jim]

Real programmers use a text editor to code. Well, actually, real programmers use FORTRAN and a keypunch, but nobody wants to be like that any more.

No, real programmers use butterflies.

But to actually add to the conversation, always look for free compilers online. One other poster mentioned GCC, which is a bit obtuse but free. There's tons of stuff out there, though. The only things that you are really paying for with Visual Studio are the pretty windows and the debugger, so don't get ripped off.