Yesterday I saw Batman V Superman.......it was ok...[MAJOR SPOILERS THREAD]

[hermes]

- Aquaman's cameo was Stupid btw. Sorry. Even if he looked cool in the papers back then, in the film make him look like a pretty beared Ariel. Also I expected to have a important role in the movie because...you know, there was so much talking about him....

- The makers of this movie expect from us to understand who are the other MetaHumans by looking the symbols from the files....OH MY F*CKING GOD!!!! Couldn't they just name them with some specific names which hints to us which hero is each one? Like, we see Flash, right. Couldn't the file just had a name like "Runman", "Lightning" or something else. Or heck, even the names "Subject 109" or "Metahuman 2" would be enough, because I would just see the Flash doing his sh*t and immediately know who he is.

It gets even worst once you realice the logos and secret identities were created by Lex Luthor and his marketing team. After all, the footage belonged to Lex Corp and it only shows footage of them without disguises using their powers, so there is no indication one of them uses a lightning or two W as symbols, or the "A" stands for Aquaman.

So, forget about Superman and Batman, the real creator of the Justice League is Lex Luthor... or Bill from the concept art department.

 

[mduncan50]

Batman in this movie kills people. Which at first it was weird, but then I saw the reason why he was doing this: We see the suit of Robin, who is believed of course he was killed by Joker. This change the attitude of Batman for the criminals. He want to just outright murder them so they don't harm a human being ever again.

Thanks for pointing this out, I never made that connection, but it absolutely makes a lot of sense. I think that's the biggest problem with the movie in that I think there's a lot of things they expected moviegoers to notice without necessarily directly calling it out which serve to explain some of the motivations of the characters.

The problem is that these things are incredibly easy to miss or not understand if you are not an avid fan of the characters, or you just happened to miss the reference, which then ends up with you being confused as to why person X is doing something or acting in some way.

A more direct reference (perhaps in conversation with Alfred for example, maybe something along the lines of "What was done to Master Todd is unforgivable, but it doesn't justify this" or something like that).

I'd like to point out that while this is the most common excuse given for Batman becoming a murderer, this is taken from the comics where the exact same thing happened, and he did not turn his back on his ideals. It just makes Batman seem more weak in my opinion.

Yes, I think you mean the Red Hood Animated movie. Good movie.
However the filmmakers needed Batman to become "darker" because the fight between him and Superman could be meaningless...
This was a solid reason for a 2 hours and a half movie.

Well, it happened in the "A Death in the Family" storyline from 1988. And it did make Batman darker for a while, like when brutally beat the crap out of the Joker, and he refused to have any sidekicks. The Red Hood crap just retcons a huge event in Batman's life (matched only by his parent's death), giving us the dumbass excuse that Superboy...sigh... punched reality.

Ironically that was retconned too. Now its the Lazarus pit that brought Jason back.

Yeah, which makes even less sense. The pit has always been used to rejuvenate, to heal wounds, and even to bring someone back from the brink of death, and then all of a sudden in it's used to bring back to life a twenty years dead and buried corpse with no explanation beyond "because". Like, did it rip his soul back from the afterlife too? I actually prefer the reality punch origin, because at least that one knew how stupid it was.

Wait, wait, sorry. My mistake. It was the combination of the two that brought Jason back to life. Superboy's punching brought him back to life, and the Lazarus pit restored his mind. It was just in the Under the Red Hood animation where it was Lazarus Pit that brought him back to life.

Yeah, I think it's the New 52 that combined the two, but let's not get me started on that abomination. I just literally cannot think of a good reason or method that they could have for bringing Jason back. This isn't a metahuman, or a character whose "death" was ambiguous. He was a human that we saw (and voted for him to) get killed first brutally beaten and then blown up. We saw Batman carry his corpse. He was buried and Batman considered this to be his greatest failure. Maybe they could have said it was a clone, which in real life would be just as stupid, but in comics... well still stupid, but less so. But Superboy punches reality, and this one and only person wakes up in their coffin underground (which lets face it, would have been toxic if it has any air at all), and then escapes to now be a normal living person. WTF.

 

[Cheesy Goodness]

I'll go on record stating this movie is not the mitigated disaster it has been made out to be. However, it still has many problems and is not resonating with general audiences because of that. This is not the movie we should have been given. Do I hate it? Absolutely not! Although, serious changes need to be made at this point in the game.

This movie should should have focused more on the two main heroes, period. It was too busy setting up other things - more so than even Iron Man 2. The scene to scene transitions barely gave you time to breathe, and character motivations were muddled. I'm not sure if the "joyless" tone is really the issue or not. I enjoy the more serious nature of DC films, but I would not be against lighting things up a bit either. Warner Bros needs to tread carefully and take the criticisms received to heart. If I had to guess, I'd bet money the WB execs are going to be more hands on with future movies.

I still look forward to Suicide Squad and the upcoming solo Batman movie. I am less optimistic about Justice League.

 

[SweetShark]

- Aquaman's cameo was Stupid btw. Sorry. Even if he looked cool in the papers back then, in the film make him look like a pretty beared Ariel. Also I expected to have a important role in the movie because...you know, there was so much talking about him....

- The makers of this movie expect from us to understand who are the other MetaHumans by looking the symbols from the files....OH MY F*CKING GOD!!!! Couldn't they just name them with some specific names which hints to us which hero is each one? Like, we see Flash, right. Couldn't the file just had a name like "Runman", "Lightning" or something else. Or heck, even the names "Subject 109" or "Metahuman 2" would be enough, because I would just see the Flash doing his sh*t and immediately know who he is.

It gets even worst once you realice the logos and secret identities were created by Lex Luthor and his marketing team. After all, the footage belonged to Lex Corp and it only shows footage of them without disguises using their powers, so there is no indication one of them uses a lightning or two W as symbols, or the "A" stands for Aquaman.

So, forget about Superman and Batman, the real creator of the Justice League is Lex Luthor... or Bill from the concept art department.

Then Bill will create a symbol for the upcoming villain DarkSide, then for the MetaHumans of Suicide Squad. After that Bill will illustrate a future battle of Justice League with Darkside and his Grasshoppers from the dreams of Batman.
But then Flash come from the future, see the illustration, hit Bill softly to his head and he said:

Flash: BAKA BILL! This isn't exactly as I told you! CLearly Batman used a Desert Eagle which he named it Desert Bat to headshot Darkside, NOT a Kamehameha Dart Gun!!!

Flash leave, Bill correct his mistake, then he mastrubate while he doing drugs. By mistake he sniff his own c**.

 

[Guffe]

For me BvS was good in the action scenes.
The thing everyone was worried about, I am talking about 'Batfleck', actually turned out to be the best part of the movie!
The scenes were all over the place it felt like and I was really confused at a few points.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

- Aquaman's cameo was Stupid btw. Sorry. Even if he looked cool in the papers back then, in the film make him look like a pretty beared Ariel.

I am now imagining Khal Drogo singing Under the Sea. If that doesn't make it into the Justice league sequel then there's no hope.

Spoiler: And its not like there isn't a precedence set with Aquaman and this sort of thing...

youtube=yE8C1WWixgc

- Lex Lutho's plan to make Batman and Superman fight each other could EASILY, F*CKING EASILY ended quicker!!!!!! Like in a second!!!!!!!
Superman: BATMAN LEX HAVE MARTHA, MY MOM, HELP!!!!!
*Batman for a moment gasp like a f*cking owl*
Batman: WHY WHERE WHO HOW YOU KNOW ABOUT MY MOM?!?!?!?
Superman: No you silly. YOUR MOTHER IS DEAD AND BECAUSE MY MOTHER HAVE THE SAME NAME LIKE YOUR MOTHER IT IS FATE AND YOU MUST HELP ME.
Batman: I AM BATMAN!!!!!!!
And Superman and Batman FIRST beat the sh*t of Lex and Supeman use his eye lasers to take his scalp because they are closer to him, THEN go save Superman's Mom.

This was the weakest part of the movie for me. I wouldn't so much have minded if we even just got Batman instantly throwing everything he had at Superman before he had a chance to explain the situation, causing Superman to get angry out of necessity, but there's a good 30 seconds where Superman could be talking and asking for help, but decides instead that floating menacingly towards Batman in complete silence is somehow totally going to resolve the situation - Which everyone I went to see it with noticed and got annoyed about.

What do you think about this movie? Am I right? Am I wrong? I am very sure I miss some other point which are really ugly, but because I wrote a lot, please let me know.

I actually have gotten a greater appreciation for the movie the longer I have to think about it. Funnily the opposite has happened with The Force Awakens, where the longer I thought about it the more I recognised all the bits that it is rehashing of A New Hope, and so my appreciation waned.

Back to BvS:
Let's face it, The fight was the main draw of the movie, and could have been complete bollocks, idolising Batman and having Superman fail by being pure stupid, but it was actually pretty balanced, sticking extremely close to the Dark Knight Returns fight scene obviously helped this greatly, and the emphasis on the Kryptonite being the only real leveller that Batman had (if just for a few seconds) was very well done, with the face beating scene where he is smashing Superman's recently kryptonite gassed face with his pneumatic punching arm, and each punch does visibly less damage until Superman is taking on the chin without flinching. That bit was pretty darn good. It didn't seem like an unfulfilled or token fight either, shakey start notwithstanding, as I felt I got my money's worth.

Personally I didn't like the Dream sequence/Vision in the cinema, but the more I think about it now, that bit with the Flash, where it is heavily implied he's just ran back in time to warn Batman of 'some' evil holds a lot of promise in future films, where it will no doubt be made clear exactly the circumstances behind it as a major plot point to stopping some disaster (most likely Dardseid)

 

[mduncan50]

Let's face it, The fight was the main draw of the movie, and could have been complete bollocks, idolising Batman and having Superman fail by being pure stupid, but it was actually pretty balanced, sticking extremely close to the Dark Knight Returns fight scene obviously helped this greatly, and the emphasis on the Kryptonite being the only real leveller that Batman had (if just for a few seconds) was very well done, with the face beating scene where he is smashing Superman's recently kryptonite gassed face with his pneumatic punching arm, and each punch does visibly less damage until Superman is taking on the chin without flinching. That bit was pretty darn good. It didn't seem like an unfulfilled or token fight either, shakey start notwithstanding, as I felt I got my money's worth.

Personally I didn't like the Dream sequence/Vision in the cinema, but the more I think about it now, that bit with the Flash, where it is heavily implied he's just ran back in time to warn Batman of 'some' evil holds a lot of promise in future films, where it will no doubt be made clear exactly the circumstances behind it as a major plot point to stopping some disaster (most likely Dardseid)

Yes the fight between Batman and Superman was the main draw of the movie however it lacked any weight because a) we knew that Doomsday was going to show up and they'd have to stop fighting each other and fight him instead and b) we knew there would be no lasting impact, because both actors are in Justice League, and there's no way that WB would be dumb enough to kill off one of their leading heroes only to have him resurrected in time for the next movie. Also, it's surrounded by the other two hours plus of plodding and confused movie.

The trouble with the Flash sequence was two-fold and depended on how geeky and up on the behind the scenes movie and/or comic stuff you are aware of. For someone like myself (very geeky), I had no trouble with it. I had a decent understanding of what was happening, and what it all meant. There was a large amount of people however that had no clue what was going on, or thought it was just another dream sequence like all the rest. There were those who are unfamiliar with the Flash, or the Cosmic Treadmill, and so none of that all made sense, and then you also had a large segment of people that, upon being told it was the Flash, confusedly said "that wasn't Grant Gustin."

 

[DefunctTheory]

Back to BvS:
Let's face it, The fight was the main draw of the movie, and could have been complete bollocks, idolising Batman and having Superman fail by being pure stupid, but it was actually pretty balanced, sticking extremely close to the Dark Knight Returns fight scene obviously helped this greatly, and the emphasis on the Kryptonite being the only real leveller that Batman had (if just for a few seconds) was very well done, with the face beating scene where he is smashing Superman's recently kryptonite gassed face with his pneumatic punching arm, and each punch does visibly less damage until Superman is taking on the chin without flinching. That bit was pretty darn good. It didn't seem like an unfulfilled or token fight either, shakey start notwithstanding, as I felt I got my money's worth.

Honestly, I hated the Bats vs Sup fight. In a lot of ways, it was the movie condensed into one sequence - A bunch of individually neat things that, when jammed together, make absolutely no sense and actively undermine each other. And the fact that it followed TDKR made it even worse, because in the context of this movie, that fight doesn't make sense.

In TDKR, Batman never intends on killing Superman. He just wants to bring him to his knees - To make him realize what it means to be helpless (Among with some other things). In this context, Batman's string of nifty but ultimately useless gadgets makes sense - It's all there to distract and hurt Superman, not kill him. It also makes sense because Batman knows fully well that Superman doesn't want to kill him - He knows he can take his time.

In the movie, it doesn't make any sense. Batman is going up against a being he knows can kill him in a heart beat, and who he believes will kill him. His whole plan is made specifically to get rid of a man he thinks is a cold blooded murderer, but it's success hinges entirely on Superman not being just that.

And then Superman's side is just as dumb. While misunderstanding due to incompetence is a frequently used device in most forms of media, it's taken to eleven in this fight. Unlike the TDKR fight, where Superman at least has the excuse of being nuked to hell just a few days ago, Superman is in peak shape. He could kill Batman easily. He could disable Batman easily. He could take Batman for a carpet ride around the world to explain what's going on and still have enough time left over to find his Mom. But instead, he pretends like he's a floating Terminator and just mumbles to himself about his Mother.

The trouble with the Flash sequence was two-fold and depended on how geeky and up on the behind the scenes movie and/or comic stuff you are aware of. For someone like myself (very geeky), I had no trouble with it. I had a decent understanding of what was happening, and what it all meant. There was a large amount of people however that had no clue what was going on, or thought it was just another dream sequence like all the rest. There were those who are unfamiliar with the Flash, or the Cosmic Treadmill, and so none of that all made sense, and then you also had a large segment of people that, upon being told it was the Flash, confusedly said "that wasn't Grant Gustin."

The trouble with the Flash sequence is two fold, like you say, but I look at it differently I think.

1. That version of the Flash is almost unrecognizable. It simply doesn't look like the Flash to most people, Grant Gustin or otherwise.
2. The vision is just poorly framed for an absolutely positive time travel thing. I feel like maybe Bruce was supposed to get the vision without then seeing the Flash, which would have made more sense - It would have set Batman up perfectly for the whole 'Getting heroes or the bad future' thing, since you could deal with his doubt - Was it real, and there is a danger, or was it just the delusional dream of an over worked, over stressed, sleep deprived, paranoid and alcoholic Bruce Wayne? Instead, the Flash shows up, so it must be true. Even if Batman has doubts still, we don't anymore. And unless I'm mistaken, 'Vision Questing' isn't one of the Flash's, or the Treadmill's, powers, so that's even weirder.

 

[mduncan50]

1. That version of the Flash is almost unrecognizable. It simply doesn't look like the Flash to most people, Grant Gustin or otherwise.
2. The vision is just poorly framed for an absolutely positive time travel thing. I feel like maybe Bruce was supposed to get the vision without then seeing the Flash, which would have made more sense - It would have set Batman up perfectly for the whole 'Getting heroes or the bad future' thing, since you could deal with his doubt - Was it real, and there is a danger, or was it just the delusional dream of an over worked, over stressed, sleep deprived, paranoid and alcoholic Bruce Wayne? Instead, the Flash shows up, so it must be true. Even if Batman has doubts still, we don't anymore. And unless I'm mistaken, 'Vision Questing' isn't one of the Flash's, or the Treadmill's, powers, so that's even weirder.

Agreed, and with the desaturated look of things, are we going to be stuck with a Scarlet Speedster that is brown?

I'm guessing that what they were going for was the often seen side-effect whereby when Flash goes back in time those near him receive a sort of feedback where they receive visions of where he came from. But yeah, he should have still had to show up in the present. I guess if someone really wants to stretch things you could say that maybe he was there while Bruce was sleeping, but that just adds a whole new layer of creepy.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Agreed, and with the desaturated look of things, are we going to be stuck with a Scarlet Speedster that is brown?

I want to say no... but that's more because I love the Flash, and while seeing Bat and Sup getting mauled is bad, seeing the Flash get the brown and serious treatment would break my heart forever.

I'm guessing that what they were going for was the often seen side-effect whereby when Flash goes back in time those near him receive a sort of feedback where they receive visions of where he came from.

Isn't it usually people that are at least secondary to the time travel event? It seems weird that The Flash would travel back in time to warn Batman verbally, and then, at the same time, Batman also has visions of what he needs to prevent. Even if it makes some sense logically inuniverse, it's still a narrative mess.

But yeah, he should have still had to show up in the present. I guess if someone really wants to stretch things you could say that maybe he was there while Bruce was sleeping, but that just adds a whole new layer of creepy.

Maybe The Flash was using super vibration to do a bit of mind melding.

I suppose when you have Superman trashing a city and Batman gunning down anything with a pulse and the potential to one day hurt a fly, it makes sense that the Flash wouldn't be opposed to a bit of neuron scrambling.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

Which movies plot? Batman V Superman? It have plenty of Plot Holes:
- How Lex knew about Superman and Batman identities.
- How Lex Knew Batman had plans to fight Superman the same night Lex kidnap Superman's Mom.
- How Superman saved her girlfriend and not the other secret CIA Agent.
- Why the f*ck Superman stopped Batman's Car.

I am sure I forgot some other plot holes, but I don't remember sadly...

none of these are really plot holes

1. Lex knows their secret identities because he's reasonably intelligent, very wealthy, and doesn't have the mental block that Comics!Luthor has, where he assumes that Superman doesn't have a secret identity. Also, Henry Cavill's portrayal of Clark Kent is really not that different from his Superman, to the point where it's difficult to believe that his co-workers don't know, considering that the named ones got a decent look at him at the end of Man of Steel. And all that aside, you've got the fact that right after Zod gravity-hammered Metropolis, Lois was seen making out with Superman...and is now living with Clark Kent.

As for Batman - he's been operating for twenty years, Lex knows Bruce personally, his parent's death is public knowledge, and it wouldn't be hard for him to put two and two together the same way that accountant did in The Dark Knight. Again, it takes a lot of suspension of disbelief for these guys to maintain their secret identities in the comics; having the film's evil genius figure it out is really more acceptable than the alternative. It also establishes him as much more dangerous than the audience expects him to be, which is a good thing.

2. If you watch the sequence of events, it goes something like this:

Batman steals the Kryptonite => Batman turns on the Bat-Signal => Lex Luthor sees it from his helipad => Lex Luthor calls his henchpersons to tell them => Lois gets kidnapped and brought to Lex, yada yada yada.

Essentially, Luthor made an educated guess that Batman would make his move the next night, went out to his helipad, and only started the plan when he saw the Bat-Signal and knew for sure. He probably had guys tailing Lois 24/7 waiting to snatch her up, which isn't outside his capabilities.

3. Superman didn't arrive until after the CIA agent had been shot. He can move very, very fast - in Man of Steel, he goes from the Indian Ocean to the East Coast in about a minute - but it only takes a second to shoot someone, so even if he knew it was happening immediately, he'd be too late to do anything. A more pressing question is how he knows when Lois is in danger - his senses are super sharp, but he'd have to be focussing on her more-or-less constantly in order to keep track of her. (It could be subconscious - he manages to hear her pounding on some rubble immediately after getting eye-lasered by Doomsday, when he would presumably be paying attention to Doomsday).

4. At this point, Superman doesn't know what Kryptonite is or even that the truck is carrying it. What he's seen is the Batmobile, roaring around the Gotham docks, using a car like a flail. His reasoning is "I need to stop Batman, because I fundamentally disagree with his methods, i.e. torture, manslaughter, and as of know also car-flailing." So he stops Batman. He doesn't know anything about the truck or what it's doing - at the point he arrives, Batman's already killed the guys with SMGs and miniguns through a mixture of car-flailing and regular old vehicular manslaughter, so all he's really dealing with is the Batmobile chasing a truck.

Anyway, in general I found BvS to have way fewer plot holes than Man of Steel did. I'd consider it an improvement in that regard. I feel like the Lois plot with the massacre in Africa and the bullet wasn't explained very well, so in retrospect it comes off as irrelevant - we aren't told why Lex used those distinctive bullets at the scene, and her attempt to get the government investigating him is interrupted by his abrupt kidnapping. Additionally, Lex's chain of reasoning in creating Doomsday isn't explained very well. I think both problems were addressed in deleted scenes, so normally I'd say "those scenes should be in the movie," but the movie was incredibly over-full to start with.

Some other, more genuine plot holes:

- why does the Flash warn Batman to save Lois, when Batman is never in a position where he needs to save Lois - this one aggravates me, because it could be really easily fixed in two ways: first, you could have Batman save Lois from the rubble when she's trying to get the Kryptonite spear during the Doomsday fight. Secondly, you could have had the Flash tell Batman to save Martha, which I think would've been great, because it's both incomprehensible to Bruce (his Martha is already dead) and also makes his sudden about-face when finding out Superman has his own Martha much more understandable. Also, he actually does save Martha in the course of the movie.

- a corollary to the first one; how does Lois know to go retrieve the Kryptonite spear, considering that she hasn't been present for the revelation that Doomsday is Kryptonian. Also, she's got balls of fucking steel even hanging around considering that barely a hundred feet away, Superman and Wonder Woman are punching an indestructible alien abomination that just survived a nuclear weapon.

- how does Luthor know about Darkseid, and why would he try to help him - again, this is sort-of addressed in another deleted scene. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-MUzvASr8s]

Edit: It occurred to me that this is a monster of a post, so;

tl;dr : Zack Snyder is great at creating something that looks like a plot hole but isn't when you examine it more closely, which is the opposite of what a film-maker wants to accomplish.

 

[DefunctTheory]

- why does the Flash warn Batman to save Lois, when Batman is never in a position where he needs to save Lois - this one aggravates me, because it could be really easily fixed in two ways: first, you could have Batman save Lois from the rubble when she's trying to get the Kryptonite spear during the Doomsday fight. Secondly, you could have had the Flash tell Batman to save Martha, which I think would've been great, because it's both incomprehensible to Bruce (his Martha is already dead) and also makes his sudden about-face when finding out Superman has his own Martha much more understandable. Also, he actually does save Martha in the course of the movie.

Well, this isn't so much a plot hole, as it is clumsily handled sequel bait scene. The Flash supposedly shows Batman a bad future (How or why are debatable), then tells him to save Lois... and then hastily adds 'I'm early, aren't I.' It's probably a hint to a future Injustice like event where Lois gets killed and Superman fucking loses it, leading to the apocalypse Bruce sees in his vision. Batman isn't supposed to save Lois now, but later, presumably from Darkseid.

One of the things I'm confused by is where is the Flash in the apocalyptic future? He must be alive somewhere, one would think he'd be helping Batman out.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

Well, this isn't so much a plot hole, as it is clumsily handled sequel bait scene. The Flash supposedly shows Batman a bad future (How or why are debatable), then tells him to save Lois... and then hastily adds 'I'm early, aren't I.' It's probably a hint to a future Injustice like event where Lois gets killed and Superman fucking loses it, leading to the apocalypse Bruce sees in his vision. Batman isn't supposed to save Lois now, but later, presumably from Darkseid.

Yeah, that's just poor planning and a bad idea in general. Films, especially films as large and dense as BvS, should be mostly self-contained, in that plot threads brought up in Act 1 are resolved by Act 3. If you're going to bait a sequel, it needs to be mostly divorced from the rest of the movie, rather than awkwardly shoved into its second act like some big piece of foreshadowing that never pays off.

tl;dr If you put a gun on a mantlepiece in act one, it should be fired in act five, not in act four of some other movie.

One of the things I'm confused by is where is the Flash in the apocalyptic future? He must be alive somewhere, one would think he'd be helping Batman out.

Who knows? Maybe he runs backwards in time as soon as Future!Superman goes off the deep end, and right afterwards Future!Superman kills him, and then all the inexplicable stuff with Trenchcoat!Batman happens.

That scene should have been cut, honestly. It's actually decent enough by itself in an Elseworlds/What If? kind of way, but it comes out of nowhere and has no real relevance to the rest of the movie, as well as jarringly showing Batman gunning down Super!Nazis before being beaten up by bug-people. Either put it in as a DVD extra or just release it on Youtube for the publicity; I feel like they kept it because "we spent money on it, we should keep it in the film", disregarding that it weakens the film and thus causes it to make less money.

 

[mduncan50]

Which movies plot? Batman V Superman? It have plenty of Plot Holes:
- How Lex knew about Superman and Batman identities.
- How Lex Knew Batman had plans to fight Superman the same night Lex kidnap Superman's Mom.
- How Superman saved her girlfriend and not the other secret CIA Agent.
- Why the f*ck Superman stopped Batman's Car.

I am sure I forgot some other plot holes, but I don't remember sadly...

none of these are really plot holes

1. Lex knows their secret identities because he's reasonably intelligent, very wealthy, and doesn't have the mental block that Comics!Luthor has, where he assumes that Superman doesn't have a secret identity. Also, Henry Cavill's portrayal of Clark Kent is really not that different from his Superman, to the point where it's difficult to believe that his co-workers don't know, considering that the named ones got a decent look at him at the end of Man of Steel. And all that aside, you've got the fact that right after Zod gravity-hammered Metropolis, Lois was seen making out with Superman...and is now living with Clark Kent.

As for Batman - he's been operating for twenty years, Lex knows Bruce personally, his parent's death is public knowledge, and it wouldn't be hard for him to put two and two together the same way that accountant did in The Dark Knight. Again, it takes a lot of suspension of disbelief for these guys to maintain their secret identities in the comics; having the film's evil genius figure it out is really more acceptable than the alternative. It also establishes him as much more dangerous than the audience expects him to be, which is a good thing.

2. If you watch the sequence of events, it goes something like this:

Batman steals the Kryptonite => Batman turns on the Bat-Signal => Lex Luthor sees it from his helipad => Lex Luthor calls his henchpersons to tell them => Lois gets kidnapped and brought to Lex, yada yada yada.

Essentially, Luthor made an educated guess that Batman would make his move the next night, went out to his helipad, and only started the plan when he saw the Bat-Signal and knew for sure. He probably had guys tailing Lois 24/7 waiting to snatch her up, which isn't outside his capabilities.

3. Superman didn't arrive until after the CIA agent had been shot. He can move very, very fast - in Man of Steel, he goes from the Indian Ocean to the East Coast in about a minute - but it only takes a second to shoot someone, so even if he knew it was happening immediately, he'd be too late to do anything. A more pressing question is how he knows when Lois is in danger - his senses are super sharp, but he'd have to be focussing on her more-or-less constantly in order to keep track of her. (It could be subconscious - he manages to hear her pounding on some rubble immediately after getting eye-lasered by Doomsday, when he would presumably be paying attention to Doomsday).

4. At this point, Superman doesn't know what Kryptonite is or even that the truck is carrying it. What he's seen is the Batmobile, roaring around the Gotham docks, using a car like a flail. His reasoning is "I need to stop Batman, because I fundamentally disagree with his methods, i.e. torture, manslaughter, and as of know also car-flailing." So he stops Batman. He doesn't know anything about the truck or what it's doing - at the point he arrives, Batman's already killed the guys with SMGs and miniguns through a mixture of car-flailing and regular old vehicular manslaughter, so all he's really dealing with is the Batmobile chasing a truck.

Anyway, in general I found BvS to have way fewer plot holes than Man of Steel did. I'd consider it an improvement in that regard. I feel like the Lois plot with the massacre in Africa and the bullet wasn't explained very well, so in retrospect it comes off as irrelevant - we aren't told why Lex used those distinctive bullets at the scene, and her attempt to get the government investigating him is interrupted by his abrupt kidnapping. Additionally, Lex's chain of reasoning in creating Doomsday isn't explained very well. I think both problems were addressed in deleted scenes, so normally I'd say "those scenes should be in the movie," but the movie was incredibly over-full to start with.

Some other, more genuine plot holes:

- why does the Flash warn Batman to save Lois, when Batman is never in a position where he needs to save Lois - this one aggravates me, because it could be really easily fixed in two ways: first, you could have Batman save Lois from the rubble when she's trying to get the Kryptonite spear during the Doomsday fight. Secondly, you could have had the Flash tell Batman to save Martha, which I think would've been great, because it's both incomprehensible to Bruce (his Martha is already dead) and also makes his sudden about-face when finding out Superman has his own Martha much more understandable. Also, he actually does save Martha in the course of the movie.

- a corollary to the first one; how does Lois know to go retrieve the Kryptonite spear, considering that she hasn't been present for the revelation that Doomsday is Kryptonian. Also, she's got balls of fucking steel even hanging around considering that barely a hundred feet away, Superman and Wonder Woman are punching an indestructible alien abomination that just survived a nuclear weapon.

- how does Luthor know about Darkseid, and why would he try to help him - again, this is sort-of addressed in another deleted scene. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-MUzvASr8s]

OG Questions/Answers first:
1. By saying that Luthor put it together because it is obvious and he is reasonably smart only creates the much larger plot hole that only Lex figured it out.
2. Can't argue with your explanation, however this is mostly (reasonable) conjecture on your part, rather than something explained in the movie.
3. Hard to really explain this one due to the fact that it's never made clear how he knew Lois was in danger, so we really have no way of knowing whether it is actually a plot hole or not. What pisses me off more is that that CIA agent was Jimmy Olsen, which was a big ole middle finger to the fans.
4. So since Superman doesn't approve of Batman killing people with his car, he's going to try to kill Batman with his car. (And let's face it, that is the expected result when a speeding car crashes into an immovable wall.) Once again, it comes back to the fact that Batman and Superman both want to stop each other for being vigilantes that cost people's lives. Like are they jealous of each other's methods or something?

Your questions:
1. Like many other parts of this movie, that is all about setting up future movies, and has nothing to do with the one we're currently watching. Also, how about some &$^(ing details Barry! The message goes on for quite a while, but there's no information given as to where, when, or from whom Lois needs to be saved, or any clues as to how to save her. Also, wouldn't Superman have been a much better recipient of the vision and message? Showing the slippery path he's on, and since he's always around Lois he has a much better chance of saving her.
2. I don't know if it's balls of steel so much as brains of brick. It's possible that she merely put together "If this could hurt Supes maybe it can hurt the other invulnerable alien thing", but even then, how about telling someone else that idea who isn't going to almost die trying to get it back.
3. I wouldn't necessarily call that one a plot hole. It's just something that wasn't explained to the audience, and again, I'm sure they decided they could leave it a mystery until a future movie.

 

[twistedmic]

- why does the Flash warn Batman to save Lois, when Batman is never in a position where he needs to save Lois - this one aggravates me, because it could be really easily fixed in two ways: first, you could have Batman save Lois from the rubble when she's trying to get the Kryptonite spear during the Doomsday fight. Secondly, you could have had the Flash tell Batman to save Martha, which I think would've been great, because it's both incomprehensible to Bruce (his Martha is already dead) and also makes his sudden about-face when finding out Superman has his own Martha much more understandable. Also, he actually does save Martha in the course of the movie.

- a corollary to the first one; how does Lois know to go retrieve the Kryptonite spear, considering that she hasn't been present for the revelation that Doomsday is Kryptonian. Also, she's got balls of fucking steel even hanging around considering that barely a hundred feet away, Superman and Wonder Woman are punching an indestructible alien abomination that just survived a nuclear weapon.

- how does Luthor know about Darkseid, and why would he try to help him - again, this is sort-of addressed in another deleted scene. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-MUzvASr8s]

Here's a quote from the movie of what the Flash says (taken from imdb) "Bruce! Listen to me now! It's Lois! Lois Lane! She's the key! Am I too soon? I'm too soon! You were right about him! You've always been right about him! Fear him! Find us, Bruce! You have to find us! "
He doesn't specifically say Batman has to save Lois, just that she's the key. He doesn't say what she's the key to, though it's safe to say she's the key to keeping Superman from becoming a rib -crushing evil overlord.

For the second, Lois could have made an educated guess on the spear. Glowy green spear hurts Superman => Superman is from Krypton => Weird, freaky shit is happening at Kryptonian ship => Batman says they need Superman at the ship (where weird freaky shit is happening) => What's happening at the ship most likely requires an nigh-invulnerable, super strong being that can fly.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

Here's a quote from the movie of what the Flash says (taken from imdb) "Bruce! Listen to me now! It's Lois! Lois Lane! She's the key! Am I too soon? I'm too soon! You were right about him! You've always been right about him! Fear him! Find us, Bruce! You have to find us! "
He doesn't specifically say Batman has to save Lois, just that she's the key. He doesn't say what she's the key to, though it's safe to say she's the key to keeping Superman from becoming a rib -crushing evil overlord.

Holy shit, that's what he said? That dialogue sounds awful.

For the second, Lois could have made an educated guess on the spear. Glowy green spear hurts Superman => Superman is from Krypton => Weird, freaky shit is happening at Kryptonian ship => Batman says they need Superman at the ship (where weird freaky shit is happening) => What's happening at the ship most likely requires an nigh-invulnerable, super strong being that can fly.

She must be the smartest or luckiest person in the DCEU, because that educated guess is a huge ass long shot.

 

[SweetShark]

Which movies plot? Batman V Superman? It have plenty of Plot Holes:
- How Lex knew about Superman and Batman identities.
- How Lex Knew Batman had plans to fight Superman the same night Lex kidnap Superman's Mom.
- How Superman saved her girlfriend and not the other secret CIA Agent.
- Why the f*ck Superman stopped Batman's Car.

I am sure I forgot some other plot holes, but I don't remember sadly...

none of these are really plot holes

1. Lex knows their secret identities because he's reasonably intelligent, very wealthy, and doesn't have the mental block that Comics!Luthor has, where he assumes that Superman doesn't have a secret identity. Also, Henry Cavill's portrayal of Clark Kent is really not that different from his Superman, to the point where it's difficult to believe that his co-workers don't know, considering that the named ones got a decent look at him at the end of Man of Steel. And all that aside, you've got the fact that right after Zod gravity-hammered Metropolis, Lois was seen making out with Superman...and is now living with Clark Kent.

As for Batman - he's been operating for twenty years, Lex knows Bruce personally, his parent's death is public knowledge, and it wouldn't be hard for him to put two and two together the same way that accountant did in The Dark Knight. Again, it takes a lot of suspension of disbelief for these guys to maintain their secret identities in the comics; having the film's evil genius figure it out is really more acceptable than the alternative. It also establishes him as much more dangerous than the audience expects him to be, which is a good thing.

2. If you watch the sequence of events, it goes something like this:

Batman steals the Kryptonite => Batman turns on the Bat-Signal => Lex Luthor sees it from his helipad => Lex Luthor calls his henchpersons to tell them => Lois gets kidnapped and brought to Lex, yada yada yada.

Essentially, Luthor made an educated guess that Batman would make his move the next night, went out to his helipad, and only started the plan when he saw the Bat-Signal and knew for sure. He probably had guys tailing Lois 24/7 waiting to snatch her up, which isn't outside his capabilities.

3. Superman didn't arrive until after the CIA agent had been shot. He can move very, very fast - in Man of Steel, he goes from the Indian Ocean to the East Coast in about a minute - but it only takes a second to shoot someone, so even if he knew it was happening immediately, he'd be too late to do anything. A more pressing question is how he knows when Lois is in danger - his senses are super sharp, but he'd have to be focussing on her more-or-less constantly in order to keep track of her. (It could be subconscious - he manages to hear her pounding on some rubble immediately after getting eye-lasered by Doomsday, when he would presumably be paying attention to Doomsday).

4. At this point, Superman doesn't know what Kryptonite is or even that the truck is carrying it. What he's seen is the Batmobile, roaring around the Gotham docks, using a car like a flail. His reasoning is "I need to stop Batman, because I fundamentally disagree with his methods, i.e. torture, manslaughter, and as of know also car-flailing." So he stops Batman. He doesn't know anything about the truck or what it's doing - at the point he arrives, Batman's already killed the guys with SMGs and miniguns through a mixture of car-flailing and regular old vehicular manslaughter, so all he's really dealing with is the Batmobile chasing a truck.

Anyway, in general I found BvS to have way fewer plot holes than Man of Steel did. I'd consider it an improvement in that regard. I feel like the Lois plot with the massacre in Africa and the bullet wasn't explained very well, so in retrospect it comes off as irrelevant - we aren't told why Lex used those distinctive bullets at the scene, and her attempt to get the government investigating him is interrupted by his abrupt kidnapping. Additionally, Lex's chain of reasoning in creating Doomsday isn't explained very well. I think both problems were addressed in deleted scenes, so normally I'd say "those scenes should be in the movie," but the movie was incredibly over-full to start with.

Some other, more genuine plot holes:

- why does the Flash warn Batman to save Lois, when Batman is never in a position where he needs to save Lois - this one aggravates me, because it could be really easily fixed in two ways: first, you could have Batman save Lois from the rubble when she's trying to get the Kryptonite spear during the Doomsday fight. Secondly, you could have had the Flash tell Batman to save Martha, which I think would've been great, because it's both incomprehensible to Bruce (his Martha is already dead) and also makes his sudden about-face when finding out Superman has his own Martha much more understandable. Also, he actually does save Martha in the course of the movie.

- a corollary to the first one; how does Lois know to go retrieve the Kryptonite spear, considering that she hasn't been present for the revelation that Doomsday is Kryptonian. Also, she's got balls of fucking steel even hanging around considering that barely a hundred feet away, Superman and Wonder Woman are punching an indestructible alien abomination that just survived a nuclear weapon.

- how does Luthor know about Darkseid, and why would he try to help him - again, this is sort-of addressed in another deleted scene. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-MUzvASr8s]

Edit: It occurred to me that this is a monster of a post, so;

tl;dr : Zack Snyder is great at creating something that looks like a plot hole but isn't when you examine it more closely, which is the opposite of what a film-maker wants to accomplish.

1. No, with this logic every single intelligent rich villain should had know the secret identities of every single Super Hero if they didn't used their money to buy only weapons of Mass Destruction.
IF the movie show to us HOW Lex archive that, then I would approved it. But no, Lex just know EVERY SINGLE MEMBER OF JUSTICE LEAGUE's secret identity [except Aquaman's I guess, because...he is Aquaman], be together next to each other into files!!! Not other kind of Metahumna, just only the Metahuman who will come together to become a team to fight Darkside!!!!
Holy Cheese with Sh*t for Salsa!!! We were making fun of Lex being the real funder or Justice League, but know it is not even a joke. Because Batman will search for the Metahumans WHO SHOW IN LEX'S FILES!!!!!!!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGGGGGGGGGGRGGGRGDMFNDFD,DM,MDF***

2. Again, here is why I don't like Lex's persona: He act like Joker. He guessed. Real Lex shouldn't just guess. He is supposed to be 100% sure his plan is perfect. Joker should be the Chaotic Evil to make these kind of decisions. Real Lex is Lawful Evil.
Hell, even the plan he had for the Fight between Batman and Superman was STUPID: So, Lex expected Batman to win because he have the green rock, right? Then why the Hell did he created Doomsday? why the flying f*ck was necessery put Batman fight him in the first place if he could create a God like being?

3. No comment because truth to be told, I don't care about this part as the otehr plot holes.

4. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA. NOPE! NAHA! Because Superman DIDN'T EVEN ATTEPTED TO HUNT AND STOP THE CRIMILAR AFTER HE STOPPED BATMAN!!! He just said "Ok Batman, be a good Boy now and become like me", and he left.
HOLY SH*T!!! This was beyond stupid. Superman knew they are criminals and he decided to let them go!
aaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAASASAS!

So, before I post this, I am only doing this because I am having fun talking about this movie even with the mistakes it have. It is not a terrible movie, just ok...
So don't get offenced by this.
Peace.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

While mileage ultimately varies for entertainment, I consider it a bad sign for my enjoyment of a film to muttering "Oh for fuck's sake, really?" about two thirds of the way through it.

Outside of Wonder Woman, and I swear to God if they fuck that up I'll.....write a strongly worded letter or something, then I'm basically going to be dropping the DCEU as simply not for me.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

1. No, with this logic every single intelligent rich villain should had know the secret identities of every single Super Hero if they didn't used their money to buy only weapons of Mass Destruction.
IF the movie show to us HOW Lex archive that, then I would approved it. But no, Lex just know EVERY SINGLE MEMBER OF JUSTICE LEAGUE's secret identity [except Aquaman's I guess, because...he is Aquaman], be together next to each other into files!!! Not other kind of Metahumna, just only the Metahuman who will come together to become a team to fight Darkside!!!!
Holy Cheese with Sh*t for Salsa!!! We were making fun of Lex being the real funder or Justice League, but know it is not even a joke. Because Batman will search for the Metahumans WHO SHOW IN LEX'S FILES!!!!!!!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGGGGGGGGGGRGGGRGDMFNDFD,DM,MDF***

Wow, you're...really worked up about this. Anyway, I think it boils down to how much credibility you give to the whole idea of secret identities. The MCU threw them out at the end of the first Iron Man because they thought they couldn't make it believable. The DC movies have decided to keep them, but in a fragile way - having their secret identity blown isn't the instant-fail condition it is in the comics. Luthor figures it out because he's collecting data on metahumans as a hobby and he's smart enough to connect the dots. That's all it is. I thought it was a nice touch that amped up how dangerous Lex seems to the audience by playing with their expectations of how secret identities are normally handled.

2. Again, here is why I don't like Lex's persona: He act like Joker. He guessed. Real Lex shouldn't just guess. He is supposed to be 100% sure his plan is perfect. Joker should be the Chaotic Evil to make these kind of decisions. Real Lex is Lawful Evil.

Watch this scene. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnP8nfRB4g4]

I don't know where this "Eisenberg playing the Joker" complaint came from, because Luthor has always been manic and egotistical. Lex Luthor's not always a mad scientist, but he is always mad. Look at Spacey's body language in that scene; he's energetic, condescending, almost playfully manic, and lots of other adjectives you could also apply to the Joker.

People seem to think that Luthor should be some grim, brooding, no-nonsense businessman, but this is a guy who gave himself cancer trying to keep Superman at bay. This is the guy who got elected President just so he could shoot up super-steroids, put on a mech suit, and beat up Superman. His is not a healthy mind.

Hell, even the plan he had for the Fight between Batman and Superman was STUPID: So, Lex expected Batman to win because he have the green rock, right? Then why the Hell did he created Doomsday? why the flying f*ck was necessery put Batman fight him in the first place if he could create a God like being?

I think his original plan was to get the Kryptonite and kill Superman with it. He was aggravating Batman essentially as a distraction. I mean, Movie!Luthor - and Comics!Luthor, most of the time - is the kind of guy who reckons that part of good planning is being able to change the plan at the drop of a hat.

Jury's still out on why he decided to make Doomsday, but I mentioned that earlier; I think it was implied by the deleted scenes that he was being manipulated by Darkseid after accessing the Kryptonian archives.

4. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA. NOPE! NAHA! Because Superman DIDN'T EVEN ATTEPTED TO HUNT AND STOP THE CRIMILAR AFTER HE STOPPED BATMAN!!! He just said "Ok Batman, be a good Boy now and become like me", and he left.
HOLY SH*T!!! This was beyond stupid. Superman knew they are criminals and he decided to let them go!
aaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAASASAS!

You got me there. He let the truck that had been decapitated by the Batmobile, and which was carrying nothing but a lead case containing a radioactive element he can't see and doesn't know exists, get away while he confronted Batman, whose only crime was blowing up a petrol truck, driving through buildings, driving through boats, driving through cars, and using a car as a flail to hit another car with.

What I'm getting at here is that from Superman's perspective, Batman is a crazy guy running around branding poor people for kicks. He doesn't know about the Kryptonite, he doesn't know about the Russians, and he doesn't know about Lex Luthor. What he's doing is stopping the guy currently causing all the explosions, which at that time was Batman. He doesn't stop to ask why Batman is chasing this particular truck, which probably wasn't very smart of him, but I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of a Superman who isn't a super-genius.

 

[DefunctTheory]

While mileage ultimately varies for entertainment, I consider it a bad sign for my enjoyment of a film to muttering "Oh for fuck's sake, really?" about two thirds of the way through it.

I'm glad someone else said that, because that was my entire in movie theater experience. 'For fucks sake' are three words that perfectly describe my reaction to this movie, better than any in depth analysis I or anyone else can come up with.

2. Again, here is why I don't like Lex's persona: He act like Joker. He guessed. Real Lex shouldn't just guess. He is supposed to be 100% sure his plan is perfect. Joker should be the Chaotic Evil to make these kind of decisions. Real Lex is Lawful Evil.

Watch this scene. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnP8nfRB4g4]

I don't know where this "Eisenberg playing the Joker" complaint came from, because Luthor has always been manic and egotistical. Lex Luthor's not always a mad scientist, but he is always mad. Look at Spacey's body language in that scene; he's energetic, condescending, almost playfully manic, and lots of other adjectives you could also apply to the Joker.

People seem to think that Luthor should be some grim, brooding, no-nonsense businessman, but this is a guy who gave himself cancer trying to keep Superman at bay. This is the guy who got elected President just so he could shoot up super-steroids, put on a mech suit, and beat up Superman. His is not a healthy mind.

Well, for starters, this movie's Luther isn't Lex Luthor, but Alexander Luthor. I'm aware they both technically have the same birth certificate name, but there is a difference.

I can't speak for everyone, but what bothered me was exactly how Luthor is shown to be mad, because obviously he's bonkers in all the media. Luthor is typically shown to be a charismatic, articulate, brilliant bully who domineers the audience and those around him through intimidation, and by simply being better at everything than everyone else. And while his goals are often bonkers, their always painfully clear - He wants power, and he wants to be best. Superman's very existence shoots that down, so he's got to go.

The Luthor in this movie isn't that. He's not charismatic, he's creepy. He's not articulate, he's down right incompetent in a public setting. He dominates everyone around him not through the power of his character, but by being so awkward and, I have to say it again, so creepy that everyone is dumbfounded and unable to act because they just don't know what the hell his problem is. His goals are nebulous - He want's to get rid of Superman, because... why? Here's where I think the Joker thing comes in - Luthor seems to be an anarchist. His motivations aren't to elevate himself, like Luthor typical does, but to drag everyone else into the mud, like the Nolan Joker. He seems to just want the world to burn, because fuck it, why not.

Hell, even the plan he had for the Fight between Batman and Superman was STUPID: So, Lex expected Batman to win because he have the green rock, right? Then why the Hell did he created Doomsday? why the flying f*ck was necessery put Batman fight him in the first place if he could create a God like being?

I think his original plan was to get the Kryptonite and kill Superman with it. He was aggravating Batman essentially as a distraction. I mean, Movie!Luthor - and Comics!Luthor, most of the time - is the kind of guy who reckons that part of good planning is being able to change the plan at the drop of a hat.

Jury's still out on why he decided to make Doomsday, but I mentioned that earlier; I think it was implied by the deleted scenes that he was being manipulated by Darkseid after accessing the Kryptonian archives.

This is another one of the poorly explained parts of the movie - Luthor fully intends for Batman to get the Kryptonite. It's why he was setting up the smuggling of the Kryptonite while still trying to get it into the country legally - He's just baiting Batman into stealing it. If he really wanted to keep it, all he would have had to have done was smuggle it in somewhere other than Gotham. I imagine that, if all else failed, Luthor would have simply contracted Wayne Industries to study it, practically gift wrapping it for him.