You Can't Be the Hero If You're the Rapist

[Geoffrey42]

But is the stimulation effect on the brain the same? Our reaction to dreams is said to be the same as actual actions. And daydreams are still dreams-so are video games similarly immersive to our brains? Is it real on a visceral level?

If so, should we not be cautious what kind of themes we inject into our brains? After all, garbage in-garbage out. And would it trivialize the trauma of the victims or make actual rapists feel their actions are more justified since it theme would be mainstream? Would we see even more horrible events like this:

If you're going to make this argument against rape in media, I would like to know if you're prepared to make the same argument against plain-jane violence in media (and if so, I don't know that you're going to find very many sympathetic ears on this forum). But, yes, WE should be cautious what kind of themes we inject into our brains; each and every one of us is responsible for that for OURSELVES (and our offspring up to the age of consent). The issue at hand is whether you are responsible for what OTHERS inject into their brains, and the answer is a resounding NO, except where you can prove specific damage to the innocent.

On the flip side, is anyone arguing that they want to play a game where they are the victim of a rape or a helpless character that gets killed over and over? No. Although such a game could be made and done well in the horror genera, where the main character sees the world through a glass darkly, I doubt people would want to play it since it would be very uncomfortable. It isn't fun to play a victim that DOESN'T get to go on that "quest for revenge".

In the case of rape fantasies of being the "victim", the role is submissive. I think videogames are a particularly poorly suited (at least of anything I can think of off the top of my head) to giving the player a submissive role. But if it could be done effectively, yes, I think there would be people who would enjoy it.

 

[Useful Dave]

A scene with this content could be used to disturbing effect in a horror game if handled correctly.

 

[meisnewbie]

"(Aside for Eugenics arguement: In Nature, the female chooses what male she thinks has the best traits for her offspring. She has the largest investment. If she does not want those genes and is forced to breed she will most likely reject the offspring. "

uhhhh

To point out, there are a bunch of animals where the male de facto rapes females as the default way to mate and the female raises the offspring anyway.

"On the flip side, is anyone arguing that they want to play a game where they are the victim of a rape or a helpless character that gets killed over and over? No. "

To point out, the japanese site that 4chan was based off of voted an eroge where you DO get killed over and over again as the number 1 game of 2008.

So yeah, even your entirely speculative scenario has happened and been enjoyed (although I'll admit that the main point of the game isn't the repeated deaths)

 

[Muphin_Mann]

What sort of effed up world do you live in where you can justify murder? And you use a fictional serial killer as your case-in-point?

Show me a police officer who does as much good in the real world as Dexter does in the fictional world.

If you looked really hard, you might find one.
I believe very firmly in "Pay Evil Unto Evil." [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Laconic/PayEvilUntoEvil]
I linked the short version.

A: I find it disturbing that you subscribe to that theory. By that logic Isralies could launch a nuclear attack against Germany. Just paying them back for the nazi thing.

B: Also, i will not provide a real police officer while you get to give a highly unrealistic fictional character as your example.
B2: And dont try to use the guy from Saw either.

 

[Valentine82]

You are blurring the sexual fetish for rape (which can be acted out consensually) and the tendency of individuals to rape. You're pulling together factual tidbits (such as that nurturing fetishes makes them stronger) and adding them to speculative tidbits (such as that there is a direct correlation between rape fetish and rape crime), then making a causative claim where you don't even have evidence of correlation.

I conceed to your argument here, you make good points. I think it's somewhat self evident that someone with a fetish for rape would be more likely to commit rape, but I don't have anything to back that up.

I would defend it just the same. The question is not whether it appeals to or repels against my personal sensibilities, the question is of censorship, and when censorship is justifiable.

I highly doubt that this argument would be taking place were the game a pedophilia simulator.

You really think we should allow the distribution of interactive pornography that titillates the fantasies and lusts of potential rapist? Do you also think we should allow games center on the abduction and rape of four year old girls? Surly you can see how it would be a bad idea to titillate the lusts and fantasies of potential pedophiles, especially those already genetically predisposed to pedophilia. Well, there are people genetically predisposed to rape as well, and the only difference here is the age of the victims.

Yes, and yes, and surely I can't, or I wouldn't be on the side of the argument that I am.

You really don't see how it might be a bad idea to titillate the fantasies and lusts of potential pedophiles? You really don't?

 

[Valentine82]

If you're going to make this argument against rape in media, I would like to know if you're prepared to make the same argument against plain-jane violence in media (and if so, I don't know that you're going to find very many sympathetic ears on this forum).

There is a big difference between sexual stimulation and violent outlets. Humans evolved to have violent tendencies but we also evolved to work together in troupes or tribes and typically our violent tendencies can be slated through competitive activities and other outlets. We evolved much more for reproduction than for violence as every generation must pass along it's genes, and since there's only been one way to resolve the need to procreate for most of our evolutionary history humans are more prone to act on sexual fantasies than we are to act on violent fantasies. Mix sexual fantasies with violent fantasies however, and you get the BTK killer.

But, yes, WE should be cautious what kind of themes we inject into our brains; each and every one of us is responsible for that for OURSELVES (and our offspring up to the age of consent). The issue at hand is whether you are responsible for what OTHERS inject into their brains, and the answer is a resounding NO, except where you can prove specific damage to the innocent.

What about when rhetoric and ideas are leading up to action, as was the case with the Fascist Party of 19'th century Germany? What about when a meme is destructive to a community, increasing the danger for ourselves, our peers, and our children? For instance, the Anti-Vacs movement has resulted in a drop in herd immunity, which is putting everyone's children at risk and we've seen a resurgence in whooping cough and other preventable illnesses, should we not confront the Anti-Vaccination movement on the harm that it's doing?

In the case of rape fantasies of being the "victim", the role is submissive.

Yes it's similar to most S&M fetishes. The interesting thing is, the people depicted in this game do not have the fetish, they are a family, they are bound and forced into sexual slavory by a gang of thugs, and they can be murdered. RapeLay is primarily controversial however because it is interactive pornography, released in a nation where an extremely large percentage of women are victimized daily.

I have no problem with a "Rape Fantasy" game being made, but RapeLay is not Rape Fantasy.

 

[meisnewbie]

"We evolved much more for reproduction than for violence as every generation must pass along it's genes, and since there's only been one way to resolve the need to procreate for most of our evolutionary history humans are more prone to act on sexual fantasies than we are to act on violent fantasies. Mix sexual fantasies with violent fantasies however, and you get the BTK killer."

Strictly speaking incorrect, pre "civilization" tribes would more willingly commit genocide rather than interbreeding among the conquered people.

"For instance, the Anti-Vacs movement has resulted in a drop in herd immunity, which is putting everyone's children at risk and we've seen a resurgence in whooping cough and other preventable illnesses, should we not confront the Anti-Vaccination movement on the harm that it's doing?"

That's not an argument that the IDEA of anti vaccination results in a drop of herd immunity so much as "believing in anti vaccination means that you don't take vaccinations" which doesn't apply to rape games and rape in this particular case since There isn't even a correlation to misattribute to causation.

"RapeLay is primarily controversial however because it is interactive pornography, released in a nation where an extremely large percentage of women are victimized daily."

I'm interested in where your data comes from.

 

[Krakyn]

This game was actually pretty fun, you know, in an adult way. I managed to play it, get off a couple of times, and not rape any girls on the subway...in real life. Yay for me!

 

[Krakyn]

This game was actually pretty fun, you know, in an adult way. I managed to play it, get off a couple of times, and not rape any girls on the subway...in real life. Yay for me!

Now that you've played it some in this thread will want you on a watchlist cuz you're obviously a danger now.

Well, that would kind of suck. What does a watchlist signify anyway? Did I break the law? Does a watchlist mean they're actually going to like...watch me? Because I don't think I deserve that for playing an adult game about rape. There's tons of porn out there that does the same thing.

 

[Sacman]

yeah y cant a hero be a rapist I just got done watching a show where the main character is a pedophile(I hope I spelled that right) and get raped by his ex-girlfriend after passing out from being horribly wounded...

 

[Jagers1994]

It should be legal to make these games but I dont plan on touching them.
But I will tell how rape could be justified. If you were raping hitler, or stalin. The chance to sexually abuse a crazed facist dictator who killed millions of people would excite someone somewhere.

 

[Valentine82]

Personally I don't want anyone who enjoys playing RapeLay around me or my younger siblings the same way I wouldn't want someone who's into beastiality around my pets.

 

[Valentine82]

Strictly speaking incorrect, pre "civilization" tribes would more willingly commit genocide rather than interbreeding among the conquered people.

Modern tribes still commit genocide as well, we call it war. I was speaking of behaviors within the tribe, not how the tribe treats outsiders. Chances are that pre-civilization hominids were actually less prone to genocide than modern humans because they were more spread about and there was less competition, though I'm sure that they could be just as brutal as chimps when dealing with members of another troupe.

That's not an argument that the IDEA of anti vaccination results in a drop of herd immunity so much as "believing in anti vaccination means that you don't take vaccinations" which doesn't apply to rape games and rape in this particular case since There isn't even a correlation to misattribute to causation.

Still there are countless lies being told from the Anti-Vac side, they publish books and appear on talk shows, and it's an example of how an anything goes policy in regards to free speech can be harmful.

"RapeLay is primarily controversial however because it is interactive pornography, released in a nation where an extremely large percentage of women are victimized daily."

I'm interested in where your data comes from.

WOW! That's a jaw dropper given how wide spread the information is. I hate to use wikipedia as a source because so many people pull the "it doesn't count" argument but information about the prevalence of rape and sexual assault are cited all over the world is in countless news stories and studies on the issue are all over the internet, so I might as well just go with the most convenient one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frotteurism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape