"You can't love animal's if you're not a vegetarian"

[Lionsfan]

Oh. A vegetarianism thread. These are always good.

Hey at least it's not a Feminism thread?


OT: I once decided to be a vegetarian, not because I felt bad for animals, but because I hated plants

 

[Starbird]

This is something very interesting to me, really. I am a vegetarian, and I'll just say from the start that I don't think that you can't love animals if you eat meat. I wasn't born as a vegetarian and I ate meat for the majority of my life and I've always loved animals.

However, there is a certain type of a problem here. The problem is that we don't seem to develop the same connection between animals that we eat and animals that we like. Meaning, a dog is a friend, but a cow is not, despite the fact that they are both animals. Most people would be horrified is someone served them a dog, but are not horrified if someone serves them a cow. That's where this argument is coming from (although, that argument is kinda flawed in my opinion). Once you begin perceiving all animals as equals, eating a cow somehow becomes similar to eating a dog. I can't really explain this, and I've never really hated cows, but while I was eating them, my brain didn't quite make the connection between the living being and the food on my plate. A living cow is a living cow and it's cute, but once it's in my plate, that's no longer a cow. I find that interesting because once I stopped eating meat, that somewhat changed. I don't have any problems with people who eat meat, though. And I don't think that eating meat makes you an animal hater. You simply have this disconnection between an animal and your dinner. This is actually quite useful because if we all had a problem with eating animals, humanity wouldn't really come as far as it did.

I don't hate animals. I am an omnivore designed to consume the ones of far lesser intelligence. So I do.

I just want to say that pigs are one of the most intelligent animals in the animal kingdom, and some researches put them as more intelligent than dogs. And yet, eating pigs is very common. Even certain spiders [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portia_(spider)] are remarkably intelligent. So, it's not really about intelligence, and those vegetarians that tell you that they are comfortable with killing insects and spiders because they are less intelligent are... kinda hypocritical in my opinion. I myself am a kind of a hypocritical vegetarian who doesn't eat meat, refrains from killing insects and spiders and worms and everything, but I occasionally eat fish. And I admit that. The world is simply not black and white and all these arguments between vegetarians and vegans and people who eat meat are bothersome.

A few thoughts:

I know many people that had pet pigs, cows, chickens etc. and most of them would never eat their pet. All eat meat though.

To me, the only really difficult question in this whole issue is: "What about borderline endangered animals?".

I live in Japan. Here, Whale is regarded as a cultural food that is basically eaten because people have always eaten it (lots of those over here). It tastes bad. But every conversation I've had with people here is remarkably similar - the Japanese are for it, the westerners are either ambivalent or against it.

 

[Denamic]

What do I think?
I eat meat and I love my dogs.
Therefore, it's bullshit.
Wow, that was easy.

 

[Beliyal]

I know many people that had pet pigs, cows, chickens etc. and most of them would never eat their pet. All eat meat though.

To me, the only really difficult question in this whole issue is: "What about borderline endangered animals?".

I live in Japan. Here, Whale is regarded as a cultural food that is basically eaten because people have always eaten it (lots of those over here). It tastes bad. But every conversation I've had with people here is remarkably similar - the Japanese are for it, the westerners are either ambivalent or against it.

Yeah, it seems like there has to be some sort of a bond between you and the animal. Maybe even cultural bond (even if you don't have a dog, you wouldn't eat a stray dog; not where I live at least. Most people here think it's "barbaric" to eat dogs). When it comes to animals like pigs, it's a personal bond; you won't eat your pig, but it's okay to eat any other pig because it's just a food animal. Basically, it's about how you perceive the animal and what connection you have with it (personal or cultural). It simply doesn't mean that you hate animals if you eat some of them, it's much more complicated than that.

And yeah, about whales, I personally wouldn't be able to justify that. And I believe that, when it comes to endangered animals, we should draw the line where the preservation of nature comes before satisfying human wishes and traditions.

 

[Starbird]

I know many people that had pet pigs, cows, chickens etc. and most of them would never eat their pet. All eat meat though.

To me, the only really difficult question in this whole issue is: "What about borderline endangered animals?".

I live in Japan. Here, Whale is regarded as a cultural food that is basically eaten because people have always eaten it (lots of those over here). It tastes bad. But every conversation I've had with people here is remarkably similar - the Japanese are for it, the westerners are either ambivalent or against it.

Yeah, it seems like there has to be some sort of a bond between you and the animal. Maybe even cultural bond (even if you don't have a dog, you wouldn't eat a stray dog; not where I live at least. Most people here think it's "barbaric" to eat dogs). When it comes to animals like pigs, it's a personal bond; you won't eat your pig, but it's okay to eat any other pig because it's just a food animal. Basically, it's about how you perceive the animal and what connection you have with it (personal or cultural). It simply doesn't mean that you hate animals if you eat some of them, it's much more complicated than that.

And yeah, about whales, I personally wouldn't be able to justify that. And I believe that, when it comes to endangered animals, we should draw the line where the preservation of nature comes before satisfying human wishes and traditions.

Then an interesting question becomes "Would you eat *your* pet dog/pig/cow/chicken if you were starving" .

 

[Shock and Awe]

I like animals, I just also accept that as far as survival goes I have little problem eating any one of them to live. My pets included. Are there some animals I believe should be avoided when concerning food? Yeah, but thats pretty much just primates because they are our closest relatives. Even then if I was starving I would be fine eating a chimp.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

Something that hasn't been mentioned - You can eat meat without being aware that you're eating something that was once a living, breathing animal that you see in the zoo and can own as a pet. It is quite easy to ignore any distinction between animals and plants when they are on your plate.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

It's always the "if you're not x, you're y." And it's bullshit. Ultra-feminists pull the same thing.

"I saw someone spouting BS on facebook I should tell Escapist."

I love animals.. down to the bone.

Hey be nice, some people need to vent.

 

[peruvianskys]

It's not *my* dog or horse. If I had a pet cow or pig, I wouldn't want to eat it. If not, no problem. I'd go as far as saying "if you can eat one animal, you should be okay with eating any animal "

So go visit a prostitute and then if you start feeling bad about abusing another human being for your own enjoyment, just remember, it's not *your* daughter.

I'm a vegetarian and I do think that it requires an insane amount of cognitive dissonance to say you love animals in one breath and then say that it's okay to kill them and eat their dead bodies. Could I say I loved women if I was a rapist, or that I loved black people if I was a member of the KKK?

 

[Johnson McGee]

I love my family, but there are still some other people that I would kill and eat given the chance.

 

[Starbird]

It's not *my* dog or horse. If I had a pet cow or pig, I wouldn't want to eat it. If not, no problem. I'd go as far as saying "if you can eat one animal, you should be okay with eating any animal "

So go visit a prostitute and then if you start feeling bad about abusing another human being for your own enjoyment, just remember, it's not *your* daughter.

I'm a vegetarian and I do think that it requires an insane amount of cognitive dissonance to say you love animals in one breath and then say that it's okay to kill them and eat their dead bodies. Could I say I loved women if I was a rapist, or that I loved black people if I was a member of the KKK?

I'm quite fine with prostitution too, if it comes to that .

But seriously, I agree that it's a tricky issue. I can only talk from my own beliefs and experiences over the last 30 odd years. I've had many beloved pets who were essentially members of my family.

That said, I'm fine with people eating meat, veggies or whatever tickles their fancy. Animals, like it or not, are just that. Animals. We shouldn't kill them needlessly or at random, but as a food source - zero problems.

And comparing being a racist or rapist to eating a burger...well, there's cognitive dissonance and there's cognitive dissonance.

 

[Phasmal]

It's not *my* dog or horse. If I had a pet cow or pig, I wouldn't want to eat it. If not, no problem. I'd go as far as saying "if you can eat one animal, you should be okay with eating any animal "

So go visit a prostitute and then if you start feeling bad about abusing another human being for your own enjoyment, just remember, it's not *your* daughter.

I'm a vegetarian and I do think that it requires an insane amount of cognitive dissonance to say you love animals in one breath and then say that it's okay to kill them and eat their dead bodies. Could I say I loved women if I was a rapist, or that I loved black people if I was a member of the KKK?

Wow. Just wow.
I've got cognative dissonance because I care about animals and eat meat but doing so makes me comparable to a racist and a rapist?
Is that really how you view most people?
That's just sad. And it doesn't really help the holier-than-thou stereotype veggies get.

 

[Pinkamena]

Ridiculous idea. Reminds me of the old "If you are not a religious person (preferrably Christian), you do not have morals."

 

[Defenestra]

I'm always torn in matters like this. What can I say that will meaningfully contribute? Is expressing my thoughts on the matter going to help, or hinder?

Ah well. I shall just go ahead with it.

Apostrophes. Please use them properly. They are not for pluralizing things, they are for contractions and possessives.

As for the actual topic, I'm going to go hang out with the people who think the assertion is too binary.

 

[peruvianskys]

That said, I'm fine with people eating meat, veggies or whatever tickles their fancy. Animals, like it or not, are just that. Animals. We shouldn't kill them needlessly or at random, but as a food source - zero problems.

But killing animals for food is killing them needlessly and at random. No one needs to eat animal products, especially in the West. Killing animals for meat is as pointless as killing them for fur.

Wow. Just wow.
I've got cognative dissonance because I care about animals and eat meat but doing so makes me comparable to a racist and a rapist?
Is that really how you view most people?
That's just sad. And it doesn't really help the holier-than-thou stereotype veggies get.

The activities are not comparable in moral value but in the amount of dissonance required. Instead of just dismissing me how about you justify why you can claim to love a population of creatures while actively encouraging their painful deaths and eventual necrophagia?

I don't think there's really any correlation between whether you like your animals and whether you eat them or not.

Thanks for stating your opinion, care to justify it in any meaningful way?

 

[DugMachine]

I love animals, LOVE TO EAT EM. No but really, I do love them. I volunteer frequently at animal rescues and try to do environmental clean ups (even going into environmental sciences) as much as I can. But because I enjoy some meat all of that is totally thrown out the window? /ok

 

[Phasmal]

Wow. Just wow.
I've got cognative dissonance because I care about animals and eat meat but doing so makes me comparable to a racist and a rapist?
Is that really how you view most people?
That's just sad. And it doesn't really help the holier-than-thou stereotype veggies get.

The activities are not comparable in moral value but in the amount of dissonance required. Instead of just dismissing me how about you justify why you can claim to love a population of creatures while actively encouraging their painful deaths and eventual necrophagia?

I'm not dismissing you, because... well... there's not much to dismiss.
You say people can't love animals and eat meat, but people do.
Most people eat meat but still care about animals.
I'm guessing you've eaten meat at least once, does that mean you hated animals and encouraged them to die painfully?

I am for humane food industry, I do not at all advocate painful deaths for animals.

Also, I'm pretty sure some holier than thou vegan could come in and one-up you for being awful for drinking milk or using anything with animal products in it.
Does that mean you do not love animals?