manic_depressive13 said:
Considering the fact that the lives of factory farmed animals are short and very unpleasant I think it's better for them simply to not be bred into existence to begin with. Most of them are bred so that it is completely impractical for them to exist except as enormous meat tumours. I don't think animals should be forced to live such lives. The animals that are alive right now will be slaughtered, that is without question. But should we keep bringing more and more animals into existence, only to make them suffer, then kill them? The plight of factory farmed animals is different to that of domestic and wild animals. They have no quality of life to speak of, so really it is the death, not the life that counts.
I actually honestly agree with most of this point, except for a stand-out detail in this phrase.
Most livestock on Earth are not bred that way. Most in North America are, and a significant proportion in Europe. Elsewhere, this form of raising livestock (Especially where bovines are considered) is pretty close to nonexistent. It takes a lot of money to get started, and that is something in fairly short supply most everywhere.
If that is your issue with meat consumption, then, as has been mentioned, you should consider alternate sources of meat, boycotting your local meat industry you find distasteful, instead of blanketing the whole world with a local problem.
Furthermore, fishing cannot and does not run into any of those issues, and is a staple of diet in a lot of regions. It is, furthermore, apparently quite healthy.
manic_depressive13 said:
What? How does that settle anything? I ate meat when I was a child because I was raised like that. I stopped eating it because I didn't agree with farming practices. So yes, I have been a meat-eater within my lifetime. Your point?
The moral vegetarian "fad" has been around since the ancient Greeks.
It settles the argument because within your lifetime there will be easy, cheap access to such forms of artificial meat, to which you do not morally object. Hence, you will no longer have reason not to consume it, hence you will no longer be a vegetarian.
And no, the current form of moral vegetarian has not been around since the ancient Greeks. What you had there is the belief in reincarnation, much like you have in modern-day India. I suspect that is not what you believe in - do correct me if I'm wrong, though.
The Almighty Aardvark said:
Funny, I never said anything about the consumption of flesh being morally wrong or about me objecting to farm practices (unless you remember me from a previous thread on the last one). I do think that it is pretty immoral what goes on with industrial farming though.
I'm not against eating meat necessarily, at this point I'm more of the opinion that it's best if an alternative can be found that's both accessible and affordable enough for people to switch to, or a way to avoid factory farming. In certain farms animals are given a pretty good standard of living, better than they would normally. While I do not enjoy the idea of killing animals, it is necessary for farms to make profit for them to exist. As such using them as food is an unfortunate necessity.
Hunting? I'm kind of iffy about, leaning on against. You could argue that chances are they'll be killed in the wild as is, but if they were killed in the wild it'd at least be for some purpose other than sport.
EDIT: And I just realized that I've said nothing about the OP. Yeah, stupid argument hands down. I haven't looked through this thread, but has anyone actually supported it?
Quoting to say just a single thing: Having one more sensible vegetarian on this thread does wonders to make it less stupid.
Wholly agree that there being alternatives is economically and personally sound. Food can be cheaper, people can be healthier, and the impact on lifestyle is minimal if you merely, say, eat meat once every other day, in small amounts, rather than gorge yourself in it every meal.
Further to the point, I also find factory farming to be dumb on numerous levels. Seems we agree on most everything.
